Unfortunately Money Is A Factor

[Tinydance]

OK I'm not a guy, I'm female but this is just my opinion. I understand that men are looks oriented but there are a lot of women in this world who found a decent guy and they are only average. In fact most people are average. Of course I know that it's easier for attractive people in terms of everything and that's no secret. It might even be easier for them to get jobs. 

I think when you see men with just an average woman or overweight woman for example, my guess is that they probably met each other in real life and got to know each other and they really connected. Or maybe they did meet online but people have different levels of attraction.

I actually have a male friend who is so attractive (my ex actually, just to show off lol). He's a really nice guy, slim and has a Master's Degree and is a teacher. He actually likes plus size women and finds them attractive. I also went on a date with another guy who loved plus size women and in fact preferred them. Yet other men would be put off by overweight women and only want slim women. 

I mean yeah of course guys will get infatuated with a stripper, model or attractive woman. But you don't see most guys with a model. Most guys are just with average/normal looking women.

I actually disagree with the whole posting bikini photos of yourself to get guys. I could be wrong but I think while yes, you will initially get a lot of attention if you dress sexy or show sexy photos. But I'm just not sure that it creates a good image necessarily in terms of a long term relationship. I'm not shaming women at all if they post bikini photos but I'm saying that the attraction the women with bikini photos might get is predominantly sexual and physical, so for hookup. 

Whereas if you post normal photos and write interesting things about yourself in your online dating profile, the guys that message you would be guys that actually cared more about the content. Sure, it might be not as many guys but it's the quality, not quantity. Personally I want a guy to like me for who I am and not only for my looks. As you get older, looks fade and your body changes. I don't want my husband to dump me (it happens) just because he saw a more attractive woman.

What I do think though is that people need to be realistic in what they can get in life. Yes there is that stereotype that a hot woman can get rich guys and rich guys can get the attractive women. That's probably true except most women (and men) are not hot and most men are not rich. So to me it seems most couples are just what you call "average" in terms of looks and income.

I think women need to be realistic in what types of men they can get. If a woman is slim and really attractive then sure she can aim for rich guys. But if an average woman only goes for rich guys then she'd probably end up with a "Shallow Hal" movie type situation. Like in that movie Jack Black's character was overweight and not attractive but he was shallow and only went after hot women out of his league. But he was hypnotised by Tony Robinson to see women as beautiful if they were beautiful on the inside. So he met this obese woman (played by Gwyneth Paltrow in a fat suit) and she actually really liked him. Anyway yada yada he realised he loved her for who she is once the spell wore off and he saw what she really looked like. I think the moral of the story wasn't to be shallow (or materialistic) and to value who people actually are. 

 

 

[mylolita]

Charisma seems to be pretty compelling. Doesn’t harm 😉 I guess it’s not a quality you decide to just acquire. I think charismatic people come out of the womb that way.

 

“Charisma is compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.”
 

I think charisma can definitely trump looks and talent, especially in the eyes of women when choosing men, but that is just my lil old opinion, other women might think differently.

 

Lo x

[dias]

13 minutes ago, mylolita said:

This is so interesting ya’ll 😎

 

To me this is simply highlighting the general differences between men and woman. Here we are ladies, with all the essentials and more there, kissing the boo boos whilst putting on lipstick and needing about 8 arms with your current job list looking like a windows screen about 15 pages all running at once! But then their father comes in at bedtime, throws them on the bed and all you can hear are screams of laughter. No prep or soothing coos or ironed pjamas or cleaned up spills to be seen but, your babies are happy and in love with you for different reasons. Mums and Dads just do things differently, that’s why together, when right, they make a pretty awesome team.
 

I don’t think you can avoid stress in life. Money to me swaps one kind of stress for another type. You get different flavours of stress. You’re welcome! Even without work and children, people you know die, become ill - things happen. Office stress, toddler tantrum stress, wondering whether people want to be with you for your wealth or for who you are, wondering whether you can pay the mortgage that month - all stress. But I would argue! The reward of looking after and having your child stroke your face and look deep into your eyes and tell you they love you trumps all those hard times! I have never known “job satisfaction” like it!

 

Financial struggle is not nice, no way. But just because you have money does not mean all your problems float away, or else there would be no divorced millionaires if money made happy marriages, or happy lives for that matter.

 

And regarding women in employment, well, my husband employs a few people and as a small business, would you rather employ a man or woman who has a grown family and will not rush off as soon as you employ them and need full maternity, paternity, and all that comes with it pay? Just another harsh but true fact of life. Very young children need their mothers desperately. When they are sick in the middle of the night, they don’t cry out for Grandma or even Daddy - the call you hear is “Mama! Mamaaaa!” And that is why women generally can’t match men in the work place until their child rearing days are over, and there’s no shame in that. It is an honour to be needed so desperately.

 

I have a hankering, it’s corny, but I have a feeling deep down in my gut, that when our moment comes and you have your final moments on this green earth, you won’t be thinking about what degrees you amassed, or the digits of your current accounts, or your promotions or how many homes you owned or didn’t own or, any of that. I think, if you are very lucky, you will remember those moments that brim with love. If you have a lot of those in your life, then I think you are rich. The wealthiest people I know, and people who have nothing - they just want to be happy. If you can stand there and say I did it my way, I was more good than bad, and my life was lived and full of love then, you can’t do any better than that. 

See...you are a treasure! We are debating here trying to prove our points like politicians (the dumb version as we not getting paid) and you write this. No wonder why your husband is still in love with you after so many years. You are another level my dear! You wouldn't have to ask for 50%, they would  give you 100% willingly!

 

17 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I do have a younger sister! Brunette! Engaged I am afraid (I’m not keen on her boyfriend but whaddyagonnado! 

You have to sell her the story the right way haha you know, she could better and you happen to know a good looking guy etc etc hahahaha

21 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I will take it as a compliment

Of course darling, I have exquisite taste, I appreciate only the best!

21 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Us old fashioned gals might be a little hard to find but if you meet one you will know because we can’t keep our mouths shut - HA!) 

Plenty of old fashioned gals, not many with the charisma as you said 

[Tinydance]

Also I have no problem with women preferring the more traditional role and not studying or working and just being a housewife. I believe that how people choose to live their life is their choice, as long as they're a nice and respectable person and they're not hurting anyone. 

Just the way I see it though, our society has changed a lot and in my opinion now it's a bit detrimental for a woman to have no work experience or big gaps in working. I've heard of women who took many years off work to be a stay at home mum but when the children were older, tried to get back into the work force. But they couldn't find anything because they hadn't worked for so many years so didn't have the experience or references. I think even if you're a Mum maybe it's good to work at least one or two days a week just to keep yourself in the workforce, have connections and referees.

Children also grow up, move out and live their own life. I think once a woman doesn't need to be a full-time mother then what is she meant to do with herself? I know in the past the woman probably just pursued her hobbies and spent time with friends, who were also just housewives so they had lots of free time. Nowadays most women work and people retire late, in their 60's or even 70's. So I think if a woman never really worked, then the children move out, she'll feel pretty lonely. Her female friends would be working and wouldn't be as free, her husband would be working. Her kids would have their own life, their own family and friends.

I think it's important for a woman to keep herself occupied and stand on her own two feet. It's not just about money but it's about identity, having self-pride about her achievements and having a life of her own.

[mylolita]

18 minutes ago, dias said:

See...you are a treasure! We are debating here trying to prove our points like politicians (the dumb version as we not getting paid) and you write this. No wonder why your husband is still in love with you after so many years. You are another level my dear! You wouldn't have to ask for 50%, they would  give you 100% willingly!

 

You have to sell her the story the right way haha you know, she could better and you happen to know a good looking guy etc etc hahahaha

Of course darling, I have exquisite taste, I appreciate only the best!

Plenty of old fashioned gals, not many with the charisma as you said 

Dias, it looks like I am paying you to kiss my a** here it is not deserved 🤣 but thank you! You always champion me. It is appreciated, you won’t realise. Would love to know what we disagree on! 
 

Helps if you marry your best friend! Always did get on with men better anyway!
 

And, for consolation, my sister wouldn’t be a gift. My family are crazy, and not in a cute, amusing way. I know I’m nuts but, I just about get away with it. Barely! 
 

Get out to a bar! Let your diet slide and have a Bud. Old school way of meeting the opposite sex hasn’t been trumped yet in my opinion! 
 

Lo x

[dias]

4 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Dias, it looks like I am paying you to kiss my a** here

I don't have to get paid to kiss female butts, I am doing it for free! 

Oh wait, you meant metaphorically.....? 😘

9 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Get out to a bar! Let your diet slide and have a Bud.

Yeah got to do that at some point, I will become a monk if I continue like this.

[mylolita]

49 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Also I have no problem with women preferring the more traditional role and not studying or working and just being a housewife. I believe that how people choose to live their life is their choice, as long as they're a nice and respectable person and they're not hurting anyone. 

Just the way I see it though, our society has changed a lot and in my opinion now it's a bit detrimental for a woman to have no work experience or big gaps in working. I've heard of women who took many years off work to be a stay at home mum but when the children were older, tried to get back into the work force. But they couldn't find anything because they hadn't worked for so many years so didn't have the experience or references. I think even if you're a Mum maybe it's good to work at least one or two days a week just to keep yourself in the workforce, have connections and referees.

Children also grow up, move out and live their own life. I think once a woman doesn't need to be a full-time mother then what is she meant to do with herself? I know in the past the woman probably just prusued her hobbies and spent time with friends, who were also just housewives so they had lots of free time. Nowadays most women work and people retire late, in their 60's or even 70's. So I think if a woman never really worked, then the children move out, she'll feel pretty lonely. Her female friends would be working and wouldn't be as free, her husband would be working. Her kids would have their own life, their own family and friends.

I think it's important for a woman to keep herself occupied and stand on her own two feet. It's not just about money but it's about identity, having self-pride about her achievements and having a life of her own.

Hey TinyDance!

 

I have always found it interesting how many women have silent “exit plans”! It’s a world away from how I think. If my husband was secretly or knowingly separating finances in some way into another account for a rainy day incase I slap him with a divorce or taking on extra work as a safety net incase things don’t work out I would be so offended and upset and it would feel like our marriage was already half over. A Plan B running in the background doesn’t seem… I don’t know. It’s not how I do it.

 

I always find it ironic as well, because I am always the most traditional, the most “indoor” homey of girls but in every female group I get into I am strangely the most free and independent. That seems wrong doesn’t it, when the other women talking to me have their financial independence and their own money in an account and other things but, here I am, with full choice. I can work, I can stay home, I can work part time. I could take on 4 degrees if I really wanted too. My husband supports be completely and has always, as soon as he was financially able, given me the biggest luxury of time and choice. 
 

I guess it might be unfair to maybe compare myself to other women because my situation is slightly unusual I guess. If anything did happen, we have assets I would sell, like an art collection, store of antiques, we have other properties that could be sold aside from our main house. Or, will do soon, just getting into buying property to let. 
 

I don’t know… all that aside, and with no plan apart from I love my husband and family with all my heart and know me and him are a sure thing till death do us part… I have what’s here (taps temple) and, I had that before I met him, while I am sitting here married and if anything ever happened too him. I’d figure it out. I know I can be resourceful if s**t hit the fan.

 

I once got into a debate that turned into an argument with a female friend. She had been married to a high flying banker. She got divorced from him and was left nothing but the house (it is worth over 2 million so she did okay) but, he legally shifted assets around so in the end, nothing else. She was stressing the point of needing a fall back and she accused me of not liking the way I spoke because it was too direct and she actually used the word “masculine” and, my tone is what she found offensive. The irony is, I am supposed to be the feeble, meek, submissive wifey and she was supposed to be the aged and now experienced independent woman. It just struck me at the time that it seemed like in our attitudes, we should have swapped titles at the time! 
 

Women have accused me of being chained to the sink but I’m no ritzy push over. I can understand some women feeling unsure, vulnerable, wanting to make a separate financial plan for themselves but there must be something in your marriage that is niggling at you to do that? Maybe even a past experience with your own parents divorcing? I don’t know, I kind of don’t even imagine a scenario where we would split. I know that sounds stupid because trust me there could be plenty but, how can you live your life always thinking or planning for the worst? Maybe I am a total fool! 
 

It’s not as if I am in this perfect marriage and we are perfect people either! God, we can argue. Maybe the types of arguments we’ve had would be grounds for divorces and splits in other relationships, I don’t know, other people have other expectations. 14 years isn’t that long in the scheme of things but, we’ve lasted up too now! Marrying your best friend helps I would say.

 

I am well aware my kids will leave and everyone, working or not, will feel that empty nest, how could you not? Just because I stay at home all day doesn’t mean I need to distract or fill my time. Plenty of things bump around in this noggin’ to keep me on the hamster wheel as it is! I tried hobbies and, they are a waste of time 😉 
 

I took up yoga once. Loved the leggings. I can see why people live in those things… LOL!

No exit plan for me yet, just gonna wing it and fly by the seat of my pants. Hope this isn’t going to jinx my life now!

 

I can see why other women feel the need to do this but it just makes my old romantic heart a little sad.

 

Lo x

[mylolita]

5 minutes ago, dias said:

I don't have to get paid to kiss female butts, I am doing it for free! 

Oh wait, you meant metaphorically.....? 😘

Yeah got to do that at some point, I will become a monk if I continue like this.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!

 

Go kiss those asses… LOL! A nice peach! 
 

Lo x

[mylolita]

Hope my ‘The Shining’ reference was clear there or you might wonder what I’m going on about which ain’t nothing new!

 

Lo x

[mylolita]

And also, get your sick bucket out TinyDance but my biggest achievement is and will always be my children. I know that for a fact from deep in my heart. No career or money or piece of paper with a degree or certification on it is going to trump the three cherub faces me and my husband have somehow created. It’s been the biggest high, a real kicker! Other women might feel differently I don’t know.

 

And I also never got the identity thing when women mention that! Surely your kids aren’t you, who you marry, what job or hobbies you have? You are you, up or down, homeless or millionaire, you “soul” still burns inside you just the same from dawn till dusk? I don’t understand this idea that we lose it somehow like it blows away in the wind. I’ve been myself all my life, who I am is under no threat of being swept away by outside circumstances that change all the time, as life does. I could never get my head around that one.

 

If people mean getting lost and bogged down doing the same thing by it then I can understand that, maybe changing it up or switching direction to give yourself a shake but I don’t know. To me, Elvis Presley was Elvis Presley when he was being pulled along in an old potato sack in a dusty field by his mother, when he was all slicked back hair and rocker billy youth in the middle of his fame, and fat, sweating and bloated with bushy sideburns in a flare suit. All still Elvis. Different phases but, maybe it’s my thinking, I don’t get the lost identity thing women talk about?

 

I don’t mean that in a disrespectful or condescending way at all by the way Tiny, I just never understood what people meant by it and I hear it quite a bit, especially at Mum groups… “you have to keep your identity!” They say! Full of warning!

 

Maybe I will know what they mean a few years down the line. I am only 3 children and nearly 4 years of parenting deep - not long in the scheme of things!

 

Lo x

[Seraphim]

8 minutes ago, mylolita said:

And also, get your sick bucket out TinyDance but my biggest achievement is and will always be my children. I know that for a fact from deep in my heart. No career or money or piece of paper with a degree or certification on it is going to trump the three cherub faces me and my husband have somehow created. It’s been the biggest high, a real kicker! Other women might feel differently I don’t know.

 

And I also never got the identity thing when women mention that! Surely your kids aren’t you, who you marry, what job or hobbies you have? You are you, up or down, homeless or millionaire, you “soul” still burns inside you just the same from dawn till dusk? I don’t understand this idea that we lose it somehow like it blows away in the wind. I’ve been myself all my life, who I am is under no threat of being swept away by outside circumstances that change all the time, as life does. I could never get my head around that one.

 

If people mean getting lost and bogged down doing the same thing by it then I can understand that, maybe changing it up or switching direction to give yourself a shake but I don’t know. To me, Elvis Presley was Elvis Presley when he was being pulled along in an old potato sack in a dusty field by his mother, when he was all slicked back hair and rocker billy youth in the middle of his fame, and fat, sweating and bloated with bushy sideburns in a flare suit. All still Elvis. Different phases but, maybe it’s my thinking, I don’t get the lost identity thing women talk about?

 

I don’t mean that in a disrespectful or condescending way at all by the way Tiny, I just never understood what people meant by it and I hear it quite a bit, especially at Mum groups… “you have to keep your identity!” They say! Full of warning!

 

Maybe I will know what they mean a few years down the line. I am only 3 children and nearly 4 years of parenting deep - not long in the scheme of things!

 

Lo x

My son is also my biggest achievement, by far. ❤️ I am with you there. 

[mylolita]

2 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

My son is also my biggest achievement, by far. ❤️ I am with you there. 

Aw! Hey Seraphim!

 

Thank you for sharing that ☺️ Please, sending my sympathies across the virtual pond to you as I know you are having a real hard time of it at the mo. And all the more achievement as I realise your son was no straight forward raise em’ upper, so, major, major, extra kudos. Seriously.
 

Yes, get the sick buckets out for both of us! 

Lo x

[East4]

3 hours ago, mical said:

Anyways to OPs question I’ll just add i think it’s normal and healthy to wanna make sure your potential partner will be financially ok in the future.

Even if he is not where he wants to be yet, if he’s motivated, has ambition to progress etc then that’s great..

Just healthy and within reason what I see.. 

Would be different if he was making $80,000 a year and that was too low and the minimum requirements are: yacht, villa in Marbella, at least $300,000 salary, big family inheritance, 5 vacations a year... etc etc (Bit of exaggeration)

Back to the OP's question, indeed (and where is OP? That's the first long thread I've seen here, that seems to live a life of its own, with no OP's input).

To me earning power is a reasonable question in regards to a prospective husband. 

It is easier when both people come with similar financial capabilities. As early as at the dating stage, it can breed resentment if only one person pays for all outings, because he/she is wealthier than the other. And it can make the 'beneficiary' feel inadequate (provided he/she is not a mooch).

I remember some years ago went out for several months with a gentleman who was earning better than me. He loved to play golf at, I think, the most prestigious golf-club here. He invited me several times and I gladly obliged, but quickly realised that my normal sneakers did not fit that posh place. The golf shoes that were on offer in this club were priced at 300-400 euros, and I certainly did not want to spend this much on a pair of shoes. I also disliked the pressure to conform and to wear brand clothes, look and speak a certain way. 

We stopped dating, for other reasons too, but I remember the relief to feel well-dressed in Zara (regular dress shops in Europe) shirt and jeans 🙂

Been on the other side too: scaling down to low-cost dates, as the guy was short on cash, when it was his turn. Not cool either. This is why to me equality is best.

I also think that no matter how much her husband earns, a woman should always have her own source of income. It is hard to keep a relationship balanced, if one person is completely financially dependent on the other. 

 

[East4]

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I think it's important for a woman to keep herself occupied and stand on her own two feet. It's not just about money but it's about identity, having self-pride about her achievements and having a life of her own.

Totally agree with that. Women are not put on this planet to just reproduce. There are also other realms of life to conquer. 

Although I love my son, I would admit that after 6 months staying at home with him, I was desperate for an adult, intelligent conversation on topics different than child rearing. Not to mention how annoying he was sometimes ( I understood why there are resorts for adults only, no children admitted 🙂 )

It is also better for kids to have intelligent, accomplished mothers. I see pride in my son's eyes, now he is a young adult, when I hold a conversation on professional topics (he studies in my professional field).

Also, parenting is pretty much leading by example: children copy what they see you do, not what you say they have to do. So, from me he certainly learned ambition, determination and getting the job done. As I think of it, I actually never had to tell him to do his homework. I believe it is because he was seeing his mom completing her work diligently  (and her homework too 🙂). 

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Tinydance said:

nd not studying or working and just being a housewife

But why is it a "just"?  Most often being a housewife is very hard and challenging work albeit unpaid.  I know many housewives who have advanced degrees.  I was never a housewife or just a housewife.  Not my thing.  But I was the full time parent for 7 years.  Cooking/cleaning was very secondary to my role of working full time at caring for and raising our son.  My husband worked more than full time and traveled often and cared for his aging parents -- and was a very involved, boots on the ground, parent as much as possible during that time.

[Cherylyn]

18 hours ago, Fudgie said:

 

Fudgie,

Yes, my in-laws set the bar very high and they're an inspiration to me.  It's all my husband had ever known and I'm quite certain he is a great husband because he observed his father treat his mother like a queen and he's a very honorable, classy man of the highest integrity.  Like father,  like son.  My BIL (brother-in-law - my husband's brother) is the same way.  He's a great man. 

If I hadn't married my husband or married "up," I would've ended up with a very miserable life.  I'm quite sure I would've become a typical statistic:  a struggling, divorced single parent. 

I elevated myself in society to nowhere near where I grew up nor how I was raised.  

My in-laws are the epitome of what a loving, respectful marriage should be.  I've observed other couples just as you have.  My in-laws are truly rare.   

 

[mylolita]

7 hours ago, East4 said:

Totally agree with that. Women are not put on this planet to just reproduce. There are also other realms of life to conquer. 

Although I love my son, I would admit that after 6 months staying at home with him, I was desperate for an adult, intelligent conversation on topics different than child rearing. Not to mention how annoying he was sometimes ( I understood why there are resorts for adults only, no children admitted 🙂 )

It is also better for kids to have intelligent, accomplished mothers. I see pride in my son's eyes, now he is a young adult, when I hold a conversation on professional topics (he studies in my professional field).

Also, parenting is pretty much leading by example: children copy what they see you do, not what you say they have to do. So, from me he certainly learned ambition, determination and getting the job done. As I think of it, I actually never had to tell him to do his homework. I believe it is because he was seeing his mom completing her work diligently  (and her homework too 🙂). 

Hey East!

 

Trust me, with a newborn, a 2 year old and a 3 year old all at home with a husband who works away, I am PLENTY occupied! 
 

Some people also don’t feel the need to keep every hour of their day busy. Sometimes when you are so busy, you crave switching off and relaxing and sometimes you find yourself slipping into a weird daydream just for nothingness and silence.

 

I remember reading a psychologist article that said your one and only job, most important job as a parent, is to love your children. Everything else is secondary. This goes for skills and talents as well. I don’t care if my children are gifted or smart or sporty or any of that. I firstly want them to be happy, and kind people. With that ticked I feel like my job is done.

 

As Batya says, just because you stay at home to raise your children doesn’t mean you are uneducated or lazy. In my year I got the highest grades, I was a prospective student for Oxford University can you believe it! Went to see the grounds and everything, would’ve been History and English for me. In college when I took Politics, History and English I had some essays published in an exam journal as examples of how to reply to a question. When taking an exam from about 14, 15, 16 - I got bored and couldn’t help myself but feel the need to make my answers to exam questions not just tick the boxes for pass but to be entertaining and try and inject some finesse and interest in my reply, find a turn of phase or whatever. They liked it, picked up on it! My only published work 🥲😉

 

Just because I talk and write informally and my grammar is all over the place and I am a loosey goosey lipstick kinda gal doesn’t mean I’m completely vapid and watch cartoons with the babes all day. I’m no Stephen Hawkins, don’t get me wrong, but I was looking down the barrel at having my pick of any university I wanted too, but I met my husband at 18 and I decided differently. 

 

Yesterday we spent the day at the park collecting leaves and I joined in with them pretending to be horses in a stable that was really the under-level of a platform for a slide. Our hands were freezing but they bundled in the double buggy smiling with red noses and rosy cheeks. In the afternoon, after we had had cross words earlier that day, my baby girl stroked my face and told me in her high pitched jangle “Yew are my BEST FRIEND Mammy!” I died.

 

We go to the library, join clubs, I talk with other parents, we hit the beach, we learn the names of the shells, we found a crab. My son went to sleep with a bowl of shells beside his pillow. 
 

When the health visitor came round, she instantly said, “I have never known a 3 year old express himself the way your boy does. His vocabulary is amazing.” Not that I care, but it’s true. He will wake up and say things like, “It is a blustery day today Mammy!” Or “My train has come to pieces!” He used the word “botheration” a few weeks back. God knows where he gets this stuff! Maybe I would like to think, all these years with him shoulder to shoulder, reading and talking, has fuelled his already amazing, crazy, vibrant old soul little imagination. 
 

He will be 4 in January and maybe off to school if we don’t home school him. Time has flown and he will potentially be away 5 full days a week. I look at the seat in the pram he will no longer be wiggling in. The area of the couch he always sits, vacant when he goes off to school. The time when they are tiny is so fleeting. I know some Mums can’t and others wouldn’t want too like yourself but, I have felt it the biggest luxury and privilege to have spent that time next to him and with my other two to come. But still, I feel there is never enough time 🥲

 

I am not mother of the year here. Just trying to add a different perspective to staying at home. I can go out and chase a degree and, splutter, a J.O.B if I would like when they are grown up, but for now I just luxuriate and treasure every small and big moment that is my own with them, whilst they still have tiny, ridiculously high little voices 🥲

 

When I was 24, child free, the women in the office I worked at used to joke, “Just you wait, you’ll want to come to work for a break” meaning, when you have kids, it’s tough. They were right. Everyone needs a break, but my break isn’t a career right now, and that’s okay. Just loving being here with my little family and yes, cooking and having a roast on the table and fluffing cushions and putting fresh flowers in vases. I have never felt belittled by it. I feel extremely proud looking after my family and I feel it an accomplishment just as any diploma. God it takes work!

 

If your husband, on marrying, then became a millionaire, does that mean you would have to get rid because you would no longer be financially equal? Being equal in a relationship to me runs much deeper than money. We are a team who admire and respect each other and are in love. He happens to have his own business, I don’t work. Might all change 10 years from now. I might spend the last 10 years of his life looking after him at a bedside. I might make loads of money! I will share every penny of it with him if I did, just like he has done for me. What is mine is yours and yours is mine. Who knows. It’s not all about cash.

 

I still stand for, marry for love. Life has struggles which ever way. You are gonna face them with much greater ease with your soul mate at your side, whether you have zero or a billion in the bank. Can’t buy me loooooovvvveeee (said to the Beatles song. Y’know, I don’t even like the Beatles).

 

Lo x

[Jibralta]

14 hours ago, mylolita said:

I don’t get the lost identity thing women talk about?

 

I don’t mean that in a disrespectful or condescending way at all by the way Tiny, I just never understood what people meant by it and I hear it quite a bit, especially at Mum groups… “you have to keep your identity!” They say! Full of warning!

I think it comes down to the fact that very few people truly know themselves. Seems outrageous, but it's true. Most people don't think about what they are doing; they simply follow the path of least resistance. Some of them wander down the marriage and children path, and finally 'wake up' in the thick of things, wondering how and why they got there.

For me, it was almost pure dumb luck that I never wandered down that path because I didn't truly realize that I didn't want my own family until I was in my mid thirties. If things had gone differently for me, I would certainly be one of those lost souls wailing in the mom groups. 

[Batya33]

35 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I think it comes down to the fact that very few people truly know themselves. Seems outrageous, but it's true. Most people don't think about what they are doing; they simply follow the path of least resistance. Some of them wander down the marriage and children path, and finally 'wake up' in the thick of things, wondering how and why they got there.

For me, it was almost pure dumb luck that I never wandered down that path because I didn't truly realize that I didn't want my own family until I was in my mid thirties. If things had gone differently for me, I would certainly be one of those lost souls wailing in the mom groups. 

This is an excellent point.  Do you feel like this is exarcebated by those that choose motherhood in their 20s as opposed to later? I really am not sure.  My niece is now a 25 year old married mom of 3 -yes 3 kids ages newborn-7 I think (oldest is 6 or 7).  Married at 17, for love -like over the moon love -but --- 17.  She has no marketable skills.  High school education. Is she smart -yes, she is.  I am not saying uneducated=not smart. But as a practical level other than experience in child care/babysitting (she was my mother's helper part time for two summers as well) -no marketable skills if heaven forbid something happened to her husband/his business.  She is happy and now has a lot of outside help thank goodness plus my sister/the grandma.  But I feel this is a very fragile situation, as an outsider, despite it being a good marriage (she's been with him a dozen years).

Lolita - I wanted to say -too much to quote- I love your posts on this and other topics.  I like the sense of insight, humility, warmth and thoughtfulness you bring to your input and advise.  Thank you.  Also you're a good writer- I can see/imagine what you're referring to for sure!

[Fudgie]

8 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

I'm quite sure I would've become a typical statistic:  a struggling, divorced single parent. 

It's quite possible but of course, there are people out there who marry into good families who still end up as that typical statistic. You had the drive and insight not to end up that way. I am not sure if I could do the same, to be honest, at this point.

I hope I can "take back" the term spinster. 

[Jibralta]

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Do you feel like this is exarcebated by those that choose motherhood in their 20s as opposed to later? I really am not sure.

I don't know, either. I do think that some people are naturally in tune with what they want--even if they don't consciously realize it--and they behave accordingly. Others develop that sense of self much later, perhaps after trial and error. And some people kind of know what they want but still opt for trial and error....

Also, I think that life in general is a lot more complex now than it was 20, 30, 40, 50, 100 years ago. Technology and communication keep changing things, and that plays a huge part. 

[Kwothe28]

15 hours ago, mylolita said:

And I also never got the identity thing when women mention that! Surely your kids aren’t you, who you marry, what job or hobbies you have? You are you, up or down, homeless or millionaire, you “soul” still burns inside you just the same from dawn till dusk? I don’t understand this idea that we lose it somehow like it blows away in the wind.

I think lots of people "crave" about what they once were. After you get the kid your life naturally changes in a big way. There is no that much "you" time and suddenly your whole life gets transformed. You are not just somebody who just needs to take care of his/her own needs, you need to take care of your kid in a big way. So suddenly, there is not much time for hobbies, training, even more simple stuff like seeing friends or going out. While the marriage and kids arent the dead of those things, you get way less time for them. So, some people after a while start to crave for the person they once was. Not realizing that they are that person but, as everything else in life, their role changes after a while. We are not the same persons we were in our 20s, 30s, 40s etc. Our roles over time are subjected to change. Some people arent ready for that when it comes to parent role, some do it but then crave their past and some accept it as natural progression. Those who crave are usually the ones with stories like "OMG never lose your identity, you need to stay the same, it would be so wrong if you lose yourself". 

[Jibralta]

22 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Lolita - I wanted to say -too much to quote- I love your posts on this and other topics.  I like the sense of insight, humility, warmth and thoughtfulness you bring to your input and advise.  Thank you.  Also you're a good writer- I can see/imagine what you're referring to for sure!

I agree. Lolita's style of writing is so vivid. I love reading her posts.

[itsallgrand]

Mylolita, I think truly we get the judgement no matter what... We being humans. I've gotten it for not having kids, others get it for being working moms, others for being SAHMs, and it always will be something!! Got one kid?! When are you giving them a brother or sister?! 😂

I have seen the vacant eyed no identity besides being a mom crowd though. I think honestly some people, as Jib said, don't know themselves and don't want to even. Just fill the void.... Some people it's drugs, food, some people have kids to fill it. Not all parents! Obviously! But do some do it because it's an easy "answer"... I have no doubt. For a lot of people on this planet still, too, having kids is seen as an inevitability still. You just do it. There's still boatloads of baggage associated with that, where not everyone really is freely choosing. We are still in the dark ages for reproductive choice in so many ways. And the bias... Hell, it popped up in a post of East's. " You can talk about these things once you have kids". Or things like " as a mother... Ahem... Major authority here". 

I'm all over the place here but I truly think there's still a lot of romantizing about motherhood. Yay for every person who is a parent and loves it, has the skills, has the commitment and passion to do it. That makes me happy, that's great for kids. But for every person like that, there's someone who is half assing it or worse. There's no magic potion that makes women specially qualified because they give birth, there isn't, it's part of the romanticizing. Children will call out for, love, cherish, go to those who are there for them and doing the work. The work I totally acknowledge it is to nurture a young life. 

I've mentioned this before, but I used to work with kids in bad situations... Won't elaborate too much now. It has shown me a lot about and shaped some of these views. I 100% with all my heart believe it's not about blood or gender, what kids need, it's about who will step up and just give them consistently what they need. 

 

 

[East4]

9 hours ago, mylolita said:

Hey East!

 

Trust me, with a newborn, a 2 year old and a 3 year old all at home with a husband who works away, I am PLENTY occupied!

 Interesting , you are so occupied, but it takes the time to post postings the size of a Bible and in foreign language...seems like you rather need an intelligent adult conversation, eh? I wrote about it 🙂 there's nothing wrong in admitting that being stay home mom is boring and not enough sometimes. 

As a rule of thumb, when somebody loudly professes something, a bit too loudly, my gut instinct is to not believe it. When one is genuinely happy/fulfilled, one does not need a display in neon lights.