Has He Changed his Tune?

[notalady]

It's good that you see him for what he is, and it's normal to feel angry. But you have to let that go at some point, to free yourself to meet better people in life, people who are worthy of your time and energy.

 

The only way to do that is blocking him from all ways of communication and proceed living your life like he doesn't exist.

 

Because as long as you remain open to his communications and feel things about these communications whether it's anger or hope or resentment or whatever else, you're investing more time, energy and emotions on him where you shouldn't.

 

Give yourself a peace of mind.

[Naomi99]

Actually, I should reverse it. I should say:

 

"Thank you for the offer of friendship. I'd really like that. So when YOU feel the urge to sit in stop-and-go traffic in your sleekest attire and most uncomfortable lingerie, park in an undesignated spot and haul three 15-pound Le Creuset pots filled with artisan food to MY house, feed my ass, have dynamic sex only to be nudged at 2 a.m. to leave so I can get my proper beauty rest, call me!!"

[reinventmyself]

I dated a man for a short time. The chemistry was off the charts on both sides and he was very open about where he was at that time in his life. He told me straight up he wasn't looking for anything serious after just having come out of a relationship.

I chose to have sex with him, which was out of character for me seeing I typically don't do that outside of a relationship.

I wrestled with the knowledge that it would likely not go anywhere , at the same time being caught up in the chemistry and fun. Surely two people who feel that way are meant to be together, right?

I weighed those words of his heavily and backed up with actions to support it, I decided to end it.

Not because I wanted to but because I knew well enough what the outcome would be.

No one ever twisted my arm and what I did was of my own choice.

He was kind, considerate, attentive and most of all honest.

Funny how he's reached out a couple times feeling as if he owed me an apology or explanation of some sort. After all I hadn't heard from him in a while.

But I pointed out the obvious, that I didn't exactly call him either.

I had to tell him more than once that he didn't do anything wrong, that I honored where he was at that time and I didn't take it personally. I thanked him for his honesty and told him he handled his part like a gentleman. I still smile when I think of him.

Everything I did from sleeping with him, to leaving were all my own choices. I could have stayed on his terms but I knew better.

I share this story in hopes that you might look at a couple things differently.

 

I think you entered into this knowing the score and in the end got upset when you tried to change the rules.

He's been consistent.

It's ok to have wanted more but you picked an unlikely target.

I think you knew that.

I understand the disappointment when our heart's invested but try to be objective about your anger towards him. It puts you in the victim role and I honestly don't see him as a victimizer.

[Naomi99]

No, he is not the victimizer but he certainly isn't and didn't show any signs of being the "wonderful friend" he touts himself to be in his message.

 

Just by him selling himself on how "great" a friend he can be, that is somewhat of an admission that he wasn't the best person he could be while we were seeing each other, and he feels badly and has to prove it otherwise.

[boltnrun]

No, he is not the victimizer but he certainly isn't and didn't show any signs of being the "wonderful friend" he touts himself to be in his message.

 

Just by him selling himself on how "great" a friend he can be, that is somewhat of an admission that he wasn't the best person he could be while we were seeing each other, and he feels badly and has to prove it otherwise.

 

I doubt he "feels badly". He is saying what he knows worked before. Next he's going to use his poor health to manipulate you into going over to watch a movie "platonically".

 

And really? You paid for "artisan food", schlepped 45 pounds uphill, drove in bad traffic wearing uncomfortable lingerie, then oblingingly drove home at 2 AM...all for the privilege of getting to give him sex???

 

Wow….guess I don't see the "sophisticated" man you saw. I see an attractive woman unnecessarily subjugating herself to a man who didn't deserve her gifts.

 

I hope you don't go back to him. I really hope.

[Naomi99]

Well, to be fair, he was in surgery/recovery the time I started doing that for him.. That went on from March to July. So, yeah. The focus was him being hurt and recovery. He recovered but my "schlepping" continued because it had become ritual by that time. Then I guess I grew frustrated with zero progress and posted here what to do in that massive thread.

[Naomi99]

And thank you for calling me attractive.

[East4]

I read his message multiple times and there just isn't anything worthwhile for me to respond to.

 

The only thing I can see fitting for a response is:

 

"Thank you for the offer of friendship. I'd really like that. So when I feel the urge to sit in stop-and-go traffic in my sleekest attire and most uncomfortable lingerie, park in an undesignated spot and haul three 15-pound Le Creuset pots to your house filled with artisan food, feed your ass, have dynamic sex only to be nudged at 2 a.m. to leave so you can get a proper night's rest, I'll call you!!"

 

Ohhh, boy. Your drafted reply is bringing a grin and sadness at the same time. It is a strong message to send, at the same time cathartic. If you wanna take it off your chest, Naomi, go ahead and shoot this message to him. You have nothing to lose in doing it, only to gain. Speak up. I bet my monthly salary that this guy never thought about how much you were giving him. And how nothing he reciprocated. Open his eyes to the facts.

 

I would only remove the exclamation marks at the end. It weakens the sarcasm. Sarcastic messages are better served cold with a simple ".", or "..." at the most.

[Naomi99]

Ohhh, boy. Your drafted reply is bringing a grin and sadness at the same time. It is a strong message to send, at the same time cathartic. If you wanna take it off your chest, Naomi, go ahead and shoot this message to him. You have nothing to lose in doing it, only to gain. Speak up. I bet my monthly salary that this guy never thought about how much you were giving him. And how nothing he reciprocated. Open his eyes to the facts.

 

I would only remove the exclamation marks at the end. It weakens the sarcasm. Sarcastic messages are better served cold with a simple ".", or "..." at the most.

 

I am highly considering it. I need to weigh the consequences first though. And fine-tune it.

[Ms Darcy]

Be mindful the question has been answered so the thread may be closed soon or moved to the journal section.

[journeynow]

IMO, there's no point in sending that comment. There is no point in expressing bitterness to him for choices you made in the relationship. Reciprocation was not an agreement in that relationship. If anything, it was a false assumption, and the fact that your actions were not reciprocated is information you needed to make the decision to end it and move forward to something better.

[j.man]

You're bringing up the sexual bits to flirt, not to in any way rebuke or frustrate him. It's clear as day and it's humorous that you might think we'd see it any other way (or even more humorous that people actually might). If anyone posting on this thread hasn't been aware of what you want and are inevitably going to do from the first page, let alone the 25th, they're being willingly obtuse.

 

People are concerned about you getting back with this guy when that's been a given from the start. If these are issues you can't resolve without 50-page threads, you need something that's beyond any of our expertise to provide.

[mhowe]

You're bringing up the sexual bits to flirt, not to in any way rebuke or frustrate him. It's clear as day and it's humorous that you might think he'd see it any other way. If anyone posting on this thread hasn't been aware of what you want and are inevitably going to do from the first page, let alone the 25th, they're being willingly obtuse.

 

People are concerned about you getting back with this guy when that's been a given from the start. If these are issues you can't resolve without 50-page threads, you need something that's beyond any of our expertise to provide.

 

Really --- you think the "dynamic sex" is bait? SMH x 100>

[East4]

The way I understand the idea of sending a reply to doc's offer for friendship, is to demonstrate why he's incapable to even be a friend, left alone a good friend, as he claims he is in his last reply. No sexual innuendos, as some male posters seem to perceive it. I guess male minds are wired this way-to see sex where none exists ;-)

 

I remember before when Naomi decided that she would do NC on doc-many people didn't believe it that she would be able to do it. Well, surprise, surprise, she made it. So, chances are she will be able to move on from doc, much to many people's surprise, again. I personally think she is capable.

[mhowe]

I don't see that she moved on. She didn't block him and is now pondering her next volley. She simply didn't do anything proactive.

[journeynow]

I think these long threads are a way for Naomi to process change internally and explore change before making choices and taking action so that it is effective FOR HER. Sure she is getting good advice, but it is not always best for a person to quickly implement the advice/choices/ideas of others. In hindsight doing so may make it easier, save prolonged confusion or discomfort, but if the change does not make internal sense because of their perception of themselves in the world the quick change may not have a long-term positive affect. My humble 2 cents.

[reinventmyself]

Actually, I should reverse it. I should say:

 

"Thank you for the offer of friendship. I'd really like that. So when YOU feel the urge to sit in stop-and-go traffic in your sleekest attire and most uncomfortable lingerie, park in an undesignated spot and haul three 15-pound Le Creuset pots filled with artisan food to MY house, feed my ass, have dynamic sex only to be nudged at 2 a.m. to leave so I can get my proper beauty rest, call me!!"

 

I think he will see you as feeling victimized and bitter if you send this.

I wouldn't give him the satisfaction. Besides, aside from being a little clueless I don't see where he did anything wrong.

Him not wanting a relationship doesn't translate into some mysterious character flaw. He just doesn't want a relationship.

 

If you are worrying so much about his interpretation then let him think you didn't give it another thought and skipped off and started your own fabulous life without him.

 

You will send this and then in turn wait for another response to volley into your court.

You can say you won't . . but I doubt anyone will buy it.

[boltnrun]

Naomi, what are the "consequences" of sending that message that have you so concerned?

 

The only "consequences" I see are a) he doesn't respond or b) he responds by being offended.

 

Which of those options is bad?

 

UNLESS...you're still afraid of making him mad because you're not ready or willing to have him out of your life.

[tiredofvampires]

I remember before when Naomi decided that she would do NC on doc-many people didn't believe it that she would be able to do it. Well, surprise, surprise, she made it.

 

But with all due reciprocal respect, East, people were predicting that she wouldn't make it through her NC if he contacted her and broke down. People felt that if he baited her, she'd go for it. So...we were sort of right. Here we are, 290+ posts in with her on the verge of doing just that, and had she gone with her impulses at the beginning of this thread, this thread might be more about how to handle the after-sex meltdown. So I think you and I see Naomi's being a sensible woman differently. She's intellectually intelligent, but sensible is a different story. Emotional sensibility.

 

I think it's good that she told him not to contact her a couple of months ago and stuck to that. But he made it easy for her by having enough pride not to throw her the temptation.

 

I see this thread as a bigger question: "how do I handle this turn of events with this guy?" So it's not just the title question, not a single cut-and-dried answer to a cut-and-dried question, and it's not a journal. Lots of threads on ENA start with a single question and become a more complete discussion.

 

I'm not sure why some posters feel a person has to have all their feelings worked out in a given # of posts. If this was therapy (and I do think it's therapeutic being on ENA), the therapist wouldn't say, "We've had 10 sessions on this one topic/question. Enough already!" People process things at different rates.

 

But I repeat again, I agree that OP needs to work on deeper issues in counseling.

 

Naomi, I personally think that the note you're thinking of sending him would be an unfortunate choice. It's childish. It's nasty and catty. It's mean. It's spiteful. It's parading as a bit of humor, but isn't funny. It's thinly-disguised anger at him for doing something you willingly did at the time, which he will see through. Most of all, it showcases what a sucker you were. If you drove in rush hour traffic with a thong jammed up your ass to carry 50 pounds of gourmet food to a man who couldn't even give you a place to park or let you sleep on the couch (or one of his other beds!) overnight, you look rather like a pretty had doormat.

 

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were just having a volatile-moment impulsive thought (to send it), but you are clearly actually considering this.

 

Beginning of thread: "It took a lot for him to express all that to me. I wanted to hear that all along. What if he really misses me? AFTER ALL, we shared MORE than just sex."

 

End of thread: "You bastard, you think you're all that? You're no friend, what do you know about friendship? Take a hike in a thong, you POS! F off!"

 

You can either send him a final message that showcases what a doormat/martyr you were and how nasty you can be after the fact of making those choices, and reply to his decent response by spigoting chick-flick worthy wrath....or you can send a message of dignity, poise, and respect for both of you.

[ThatwasThen]

Ohhh, boy. Your drafted reply is bringing a grin and sadness at the same time. It is a strong message to send, at the same time cathartic. If you wanna take it off your chest, Naomi, go ahead and shoot this message to him. You have nothing to lose in doing it, only to gain. Speak up. I bet my monthly salary that this guy never thought about how much you were giving him. And how nothing he reciprocated. Open his eyes to the facts.

 

I would only remove the exclamation marks at the end. It weakens the sarcasm. Sarcastic messages are better served cold with a simple ".", or "..." at the most.

I don't think you should send any of that, N. You are basically inviting him to come-on-down. Even if that wasn't your intent.

 

An invite to a reach out IS an invitation and the sarcasm will be ignored. You are always sarcastic/caustic/witty. Why would he see that message as anything other then you sub-consciously asking him to come do you?

 

If you're going to respond then why wouldn't you just say: "Doc, we don't want the same things. I think it's best that we gave each other the gift of n/c in order to get to the stage of indifference to one another."

[tiredofvampires]

I don't think you should send any of that, N. You are basically inviting him to come-on-down. Even if that wasn't your intent.

 

That's a good point. I think there's an element of provocation in it (I think it could be an unconscious intent). Another poster said there's an element of flirtation in the message, and I agree with that, though it's concealed in all the unskillful and unproductive elements I mentioned above.

[boltnrun]

TOV, you rock like Van Halen. No, you rock like Led Zeppelin. Like Jimi Hendrix.

 

Naomi, TOV is absolutely correct. YOU chose to do those things, most likely in the hopes that the doctor would think you're awesome. You did sooooooo much for him! Just like so many women and girls do, thinking the guy would in turn love them and keep them around forever.

 

Yeah, the doctor would like you to stick around. As long as things stay EXACTLY AS THEY WERE. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

And that is NOT HIS FAULT! You willingly did those things for him. It's not his fault you expected some sort of return on your emotional investment. He told you what's what, he once again (with his response to your response to his message) told you what's what. Honesty and transparency.

 

Being angry at him for not doing things you never asked him to do...well, that's not really fair, is it? Yeah, he probably should have let you park in his driveway, he probably shouldn't have shoved you out of his bed at 2 am...but you also could have expressed how those things made you feel. Instead of stewing about them.

 

That being said...this doctor is NOT going to change.

 

You have two choices...go back, knowing FOR A FACT that things will be exactly as they were before, or refuse to engage with him by ending contact, realizing he is never, ever going to give you any more than he has before and recognizing that that is not acceptable to you. That's it. No third choice, and no magical moment where he realizes "Naomi is the love of my life, and I am going to do all of those "couple-y", romantic things that men in love do!!!" Sorry, he would have done that by now if that was a possibility.

 

So, your choice.

 

If you're not interested in a status quo continuation of the way things were, I'd recommend sending a message similar to one I sent my ex who was continually messaging me (unwanted contact)..."I am not interested in being friends. Please respect my wishes and do not contact me again." Followed by blocking him on all avenues of communication.

[tiredofvampires]

If you're going to respond then why wouldn't you just say: "Doc, we don't want the same things. I think it's best that we gave each other the gift of n/c in order to get to the stage of indifference to one another."

 

Because that's too clear and clean. The danger there is actually moving on.

 

Oh, and East4: you said Naomi moved on a couple of months ago. If she had, we wouldn't have this long thread. People who move on say, "thanks, but no thanks" to an offer like the doctor's, and in direct, neutral, polite language.

[Naomi99]

I haven't sent anything because I'm wavering too much.

 

I haven't found a balanced way of letting him know how I feel while maintaining self-respect.

 

When I talk about consequences, what I mean is not regretting my actions and still meeting my goal. Not having doubts about what I want. Speaking from the heart and not something phony that doesn't ring true to my personality.

 

In that massive thread, I had written about how aloof I was the entire time with him. Even now with his recent contact, that same urge to display an air of indifference arises. Why? I don't know and that's something I have to work on. I would love to let him know why I did what I did and how it made me feel (although I have a strong hunch he knows all this without me saying a word) but it would be an exercise for me to conquer this fear I have of speaking up and showing vulnerability. He said he was sad. I want to let him know I was sad too.

 

I usually deflect with humor and sarcasm. I don't want to do that this time. I can do sarcasm and sassy very easily. It's speaking truthfully from the heart I have trouble with.

 

I just don't know if this is the proper time or circumstance under which to practice this.

[ThatwasThen]

The way I understand the idea of sending a reply to doc's offer for friendship, is to demonstrate why he's incapable to even be a friend, left alone a good friend, as he claims he is in his last reply. No sexual innuendos, as some male posters seem to perceive it. I guess male minds are wired this way-to see sex where none exists ;-)

Frankly, I see it as an invitation done through banter and I'm a woman. I think N would be making a mistake to send something like that instead of just being straight up and ending it in straight up words that convey the end or, simply not responding if she's still to afraid to actually close the door on him.