Has He Changed his Tune?

[journeynow]

I just wrote exactly that on the post several above this…how I battle with doing the right thing for me versus mind reading what the other person wants and not upsetting them. SOmething like that.

 

But you are NOT reading his mind. If you could read his mind you wouldn't have started this "Has he changed his tune?" thread. You wouldn't be wondering what he wants, because you'd know. Maybe what you are doing when you are "mind reading" is making up thoughts for him. That's not right or fair to anybody, nor is it a nice thing to do.

 

Do you write for a living? There are benefits to having a creative imagination, and maybe you could make it pay off for you if you gave it a safe outlet.

[tiredofvampires]

It's very presumptuous asking him is he ready for a stable relationship just based off his email "I think about you all the time, you're an incredible person."

 

After reading a ton of these posts, I now realize maybe stating "does this mean you're ready" blah blah isn't presumptuous, but a responsible way for protecting myself.

 

The thing is though, it's not presumptuous -- you are asking a valid question. What is the reason you're contacting me now?

 

Part of that question -- which you can preface with a sincere statement of appreciation for the nice words -- is, what does "being an incredible woman and thinking about you" mean, for you (him)? Does that just mean you appreciate and think about me, or would you now be prepared for a serious relationship with me?

What is your purpose here, because there is only one reason for us to be in contact, as far as I'm concerned (because nothing's changed since our last conversation, for me.)

 

That is your message, and that is an open question as well as a statement about what has to happen to justify contact.

 

You are assuming/presuming nothing there -- just asking and stating. It puts him on the spot for sure, but that's not the same as presuming. Clearly, you went out of your way to contact me -- so what is the goal?

 

If he's changed his tune and now is ready to try to live happily ever after with you by his side, this is his perfect opportunity to say so.

If not, why are we even talking?

[Naomi99]

I think I am going to respond to his last email with what Vampire suggested.

 

Let me think about it. I'll let you know the gist of what I am going to say.

 

If I don't respond and just let it be, he's going to think it i sokay to breeze in and out of my life at leisure, creating havoc, when it isn't. He needs to know where I still stand, and that the original response, I used humor to deflect an uncomfortable situation, and that's not what I was thinking at all.

[boltnrun]

Never mind about what HE thinks. You spend too much time wondering and worrying about what he thinks IMO.

 

What would be best is for YOU to set limits for YOUR benefit. How he chooses to react is his business.

 

He can't "breeze in and out" of your life unless you let him.

 

ETA I realize you telling him so in your response to him is you taking control of your own life. So I do hope you proceed with that course of action.

 

I would say something like this:

 

"Unless and until you are ready to move forward with the relationship as I stated in our last conversation, please respect my wishes and do not contact me at any time. Thank you."

 

How he chooses to react is his business.

[mhowe]

If you block his number his breezing days are over.

[tiredofvampires]

Something else to consider, Naomi, and probably address in therapy, because it's a much deeper aspect of what's going on --

 

Your feelings of not wanting to hurt the other person (which is also about not wanting them to turn off to you), and feeling like you have to sacrifice your needs/desires to put on a smiley face when they are showing affection and attention, to jump to their tune (i.e., if they're showing you affection and interest, better not let that go!) has its roots, I believe, in an early dynamic in your life where you could not count on consistent or healthy affection. And you mentioned (without details) that this doctor also relates in some way to having "daddy issues" (he's older, he's an authority, he must know better). I don't know the exact nature of what your relationship was with your family of origin, but I'm going to take a wild guess that your father was not able to give you the emotional security you needed. It was either unpredictable, or he withheld love and affection to punish you or just randomly, based on his mood and when you were loved, it felt like you'd won the lottery. Maybe he was distant, maybe he was critical, but somewhere in your life I'm pretty sure you had a male figure you couldn't and didn't quite get the love you needed from.

 

I could be wrong, but these are the origins of such feelings and troubles I've dealt with, myself, and they also came out as the fear of losing people I loved and chasing after people who made me feel abandoned. Like you, I have always been outspoken, but still deep down it was crushing for someone I respected/loved to walk away from me when I did speak up. So there was all this cognitive dissonance -- on one hand, I needed to be me, which was a firebrand with her own mind; and on the other hand, that meant facing love being denied/withheld/lost/never gotten (I'm talking in past tense, but to be honest, I still work on this -- knowing what's going on has accelerated the change). And so then, I felt like I "had" something when they were showing me I mattered. When faced with being loved or being heard, a Sophie's choice of a dilemma for the psyche, most people will prioritize being loved (at least, when those people are children).

 

I think it's important to frame your relationships as a reactive response in some way playing out old unmet needs, but picking people who only reinforce those cycles. The feelings you have about the doctor and the ways you've tried to get needs met from him that you can't (and seeing potential and hope in any gesture he makes that appeals to those needs) are symptoms of where the healing has to happen. So in a way, these insights about where you've gotten caught here can be your guide to the source of the problem.

 

That's what I mean by looking at the situation from a more deeply self-examining angle than just plucking up "will power" to overcome your impulses and emotions in order to appear strong to yourself or others. Even if you did extricate yourself as we're suggesting, it would still be superficial and you would manifest these conflicts in another situation (more symptoms) if you didn't also do the more fundamental examination, which is identifying the core drivers of your responses to people and your lack of assertiveness. You need to understand why you do that, what's in it for you even though it hurts you, in order to stop doing it and noticing in other situations how that's occurring so you can break the cycle.

[Naomi99]

I responded.

 

I said: "You said you weren't going to contact me anymore so I'm confused why you're reaching out. Have you changed your mind what you want with us?"

 

As much as I'd love one more romp in the hay with him, I'm exhausted and drained with this and mentally prepared to put it to rest. I honestly have ZERO idea what he is going to say, but I'm sure the rest of you know because you guys are pretty spot on the majority of the time.

[journeynow]

I don't know what he's going to say, but I applaud your direct question to him. Good job.

[Naomi99]

I don't know what he's going to say, but I applaud your direct question to him. Good job.

 

Thank you. I feel a little bit queasy.

 

If anything I learned in the past few days, as much as I love hypothesizing over what he's going to say, I keep telling myself it really doesn't matter. It's what I want that matters regardless of what he says.

[East4]

Congratulations on your last reply! So, you finally did the balls to the wall thing, and it didn't hurt, did it? Your shooting straight is an act of personal victory, regardless of what doc has to say. Naomi, you have demonstrated you can take care of your interests. Sure, in the beginning it may feel scary, but the more you practice to establish healthy boundaries, the easier it will become. And you will feel empowered and have that internal peace in your heart, that feels so good. Well done, girl!

[Helpexpressme]

Thank you. I feel a little bit queasy.

 

If anything I learned in the past few days, as much as I love hypothesizing over what he's going to say, I keep telling myself it really doesn't matter. It's what I want that matters regardless of what he says.

 

You go girl! Can't wait to see what he says.

[Naomi99]

Congratulations on your last reply! So, you finally did the balls to the wall thing, and it didn't hurt, did it? Your shooting straight is an act of personal victory, regardless of what doc has to say. Naomi, you have demonstrated you can take care of your interests. Sure, in the beginning it may feel scary, but the more you practice to establish healthy boundaries, the easier it will become. And you will feel empowered and have that internal peace in your heart, that feels so good. Well done, girl!

 

Thanks for the wonderful words!

 

I'm irritated that I can't make these types of decisions which seem to come to some people so naturally. I have to consult a forum and go through thousands of posts before I realize what's most effective for me. I want the day to come when it comes second nature.

[Rosti87]

Thanks for the wonderful words!

 

I'm irritated that I can't make these types of decisions which seem to come to some people so naturally. I have to consult a forum and go through thousands of posts before I realize what's most effective for me. I want the day to come when it comes second nature.

 

With practice it will. They say it takes 90 days to change a habit. Try to commit to this for at least 90 days and you will get stronger. Good luck.

[reinventmyself]

I hope you know that a man who's crazy about you would jump at the invitation.

And if he doesn't, then knowing the truth once and for all is the best gift.

No one should have to posture back and forth and cojole another just to see in someone gets in line with you. Not at this point and not after all that's happened.

In or out? What's it going to be?

Anything less is just more of the same.

Good for you!

[Ms Darcy]

Good for you on that last message!

[Naomi99]

I hope you know that a man who's crazy about you would jump at the invitation.

 

I do not think he is crazy about anyone but himself.

[journeynow]

Thanks for the wonderful words!

 

I'm irritated that I can't make these types of decisions which seem to come to some people so naturally. I have to consult a forum and go through thousands of posts before I realize what's most effective for me. I want the day to come when it comes second nature.

 

Confession: It hasn't come naturally for me, either. I've learned the hard way and with hindsight, among other things, but also know I have a lot yet to learn.

[abitbroken]

I am glad you are standing your ground and not accepting casual contact. You are done and if he wants more, he has to pull up to the table and be more committed. The old "Only accept meaningful contact thing."

 

The truth of the matter the most times an ex contacts someone is that they miss you - but it doesn't mean that they want to have a relationship or are healthy for you. Its part of the letting go process. You miss seeing someone's face or miss the good tidbits, but it doesn't mean you want round three or five. This is the first doctor right - not the more recent one who knows the original doctor?

 

If you let him, he will be back sleeping with you in a noncommittal way and compartmentalizing you just as before - but you shouldn't and you won't. he put his cards on the table and is clear what he really wants - just what you had. No meeting families, not proverbially being the one on his arm at a fundraiser ball, known to friends.

 

I might have missed somethings - like what happened with the 2nd doctor - although he's not right either, he was the opposite in wanting you to be around family, friends. So you really got what you didn't get with the first in some ways - but it wasn't the whole package either.

 

The more you are clear about how you want to be treated in the beginning - the better off you will. be. It takes time to develop that muscle - to not reward your love interests for bad behavior. (and at first doesn't involve a big talk - it involves declining the things you will not accept as treatment for yourself.) You have taken an important step by dictating the only kind of contact you want. Don't accept chit chat and catching up for sure. And don't forget the reasons that he became unattractive to you.

 

That being said:

 

A few of us on your last thread told you to stop dating for now. You are not grounded enough to know who you are, how to ask for what you need, what you need, what you want. You did "thank" a lot of those posts, but you've been dating away, after all. You're intelligent, Naomi. But if your intelligence does not translate into wise calculation, it's nothing but fancy mental gymnastics. I think I quoted TOV but have to scroll back.

 

Even if HE wants you and wants you to meet his friends - YOU are not ready for anything like that because you need more time NOT dating anyone to get in touch with what you want and how to assert it. after my marriage ended there was a time when I was feeling pretty good and guys would approach me, but since I knew in my mind that i was not ready, no matter how nice or hot I thought they were, I declined any invitations and I declined becoming phone or text or internet buddies with anyone too. I did not want to cross any line where i might be tempted until I decided - not because i ran into a nice guy that sounded promising - that I was ready. I didn't have any prospects on the table when I felt really ready. I met him later. And I was okay if i didn't meet someone - and I was darn picky.

[annie24]

Wow, 20 pages!! I haven't read all of them, but I hope you've decided to ignore his breadcrumbs. If he really wanted you back, he would come up with an "action plan" of how to make things work this time around. Stay strong and block his number.

[mhowe]

Yeah...no. Her 2nd response asked him to clarify his intention.

[annie24]

Did he clarify his intention??

[mhowe]

Not yet....as far as the thread goes.

[annie24]

pfffffft. Of course not. his intentions are not to be serious with her.

[Ms Darcy]

Posts #194-198 are my favorite of the thread. Cliffs Notes version!

[Naomi99]

I feel really jaded and sad. A man, a handsome older sophisticated man, reaches out and says I'm incredible and he thinks about me all the time, and I can't even enjoy the moment betsey they are considered bread crumbs. Where have the days gone when people didn't doubt other people and they enjoyed compliments without assigning so much meaning or dubious intent behind them?