Another online daing journal

[Silverbirch]

I was having a discussion I know earlier and talking about how guys aren't generally touchy-feeley like women. Most don't sit around talking about their feelings and emotions like women do - even with their best friends when something really BIG has happened.

[reinventmyself]

I added to my signature because it's great advice and it's true. Sometimes, you have to take a step back and think of what you would say to someone else in your own situation.

OH! I was on my phone last night (hence the typos) and didn't quite understand.

That and you can't see signature lines from your phone.

But I consider that a nice compliment, especially coming from you.

[reinventmyself]

My therapist has asked me this question in the past and once again.

I've been giving it some thought.

He asks `What is it about you or what is it you give off that attracts these types of men'

I am assuming he meant controlling in different ways because that just seems to be theme in my life.

 

I know I have more digging to do but what I come up with is I am on the forefront very easy going. Most of my friends are pretty big, head strong personalities and I am the easy going one. When everyone is scrapping to be heard and get there own way, mostly when it comes to the most simple things; where to eat, where to go, what time, I, for the life of me don't really care that much. Honestly. At least not as much as they do and some are really passionate about their dislike for sushi, let's say. I am the `just tell what time to be there' voice.

 

I am that way in dating. Nothing bugs me more than a man asking me out and showing up without a plan. `So, what did you want to do?' (Grrr) If I ask you out, I will have a plan in mind. Please do the same.

 

Men are attracted to me in the beginning. 'Geez. . she's so fun and up for anything. 'Go with the flow girl' and their friends always like me because I am friendly and happy. I just don't make waves. Let's go!

 

BUT. . I will light up when something important comes up. Typically something personal of nature.

I think I am often confused with someone you can take advantage of.

And they are caught off guard when they bump up against a line or a boundary of mine. I am pretty firm (sometimes rigid) and I make it very clear.

I can see them caught off guard and they think if they push harder, I'll cave and I don't.

 

My last bf, B made the mistake saying we would be perfect for each other because he had a tendency to be controlling and I was passive. Yikes! (he even showed me an article to support his case) I cautioned him I was not passive and it should not be confused with being easy going about things. I would describe myself as a little reserved, easy going, but assertive when I need to be. I also know how to choose my battles and what movie to see in which theatre isn't one of them. I am pretty easily entertained.

 

B argued that he was right in his assessment, ha, ha Typical control move to define my own reality and say he knew me better than myself. So when personal challenges came up and B didn't get his way he was really frustrated. I told him one time that I think he was disappointed. That he thought he signed up for one thing but got another instead. I had warned him in the beginning, but he didn't listen. Besides B was always right.

 

When I first met S, though I was in the middle of a couple very high profile projects at work that requires me to be assertive and facilitate contractors, architects and engineers.. He was impressed in my capabilities and ability to hold my own and get things done often being the only women amongst men.

With S, I wanted him to take the lead sometimes (or share it) and he had a hard time doing so.

 

So. . now that I have rambled . . I guess I am confused.

I can see how my previous two mistakes (bfs) thought I was a target for control, but I don't think S saw me that way.

 

S's last gf was an overly dependent project that couldn't take care of herself or keep a job.

He grew weary of parenting her and ended it.

I think, well I know - I was the exact opposite of her. For S, initially that was attractive. He said so.

But I also believe controlling men prefer helpless women and projects they can mold.

I am no - ones project.

[WithLove]

It's possible for you to be assertive and proactive in the workplace because it's your job to be so - but that doesn't mean that's who you are as a person.

[notalady]

Reinvent, your observations are interesting. I suppose it's true that controlling people seek out people who they think can be controlled. But do you think you also seek out men who seems to take charge early on, perhaps initially disguised as assertiveness and well-planned (as you said you prefer someone with a plan and don't like it when someone asks you what to do/where to go).

 

Because that's an interesting comparison to myself, as I always felt annoyed (and treated it as a red flag in the dating context) when someone makes a decision that affects me without asking my opinions / preferences first, such as what to do and where to go, even something as small as picking a restaurant. I have an old friend (female) who I never got close to but we've been friends since 14, she is the type to overly take charge and plan things out, I remember when we went on an away trip together a few years ago, along with two others, she was very take charge about the planning and activities, and that just rubbed me the wrong way. I prefer a consultative approach and hate when someone else takes charge. That's probably why we weren't and never will be close.

 

So I think I must repel and feel repelled by controlling people as they would just annoy me too much initially for it to even go anywhere. Interestingly when I told J about my friend, he said he wouldn't have minded if someone planned out everything and happy to just go along. I said that's because he's so easy going lol...

 

I do recall you said S was not like that (take charge I mean) at the start, with that story about picking a restaurant. So I think seeking out apparently passive men (both S and M) hasn't worked for you either, they both end up being controlling in their own ways, no? Perhaps the initial display of assertiveness and passiveness is not the key to finding someone who is well balanced and respects and hears you. Perhaps the way to distinguish is to voice your opinions and preferences, even if small, early on, and see how they respond. Perhaps being "less easy going", even if you have to make yourself do it, is the way to go? I'm just throwing out ideas here

[reinventmyself]

I do recall you said S was not like that (take charge I mean) at the start, with that story about picking a restaurant. So I think seeking out apparently passive men (both S and M) hasn't worked for you either, they both end up being controlling in their own ways, no? Perhaps the initial display of assertiveness and passiveness is not the key to finding someone who is well balanced and respects and hears you. Perhaps the way to distinguish is to voice your opinions and preferences, even if small, early on, and see how they respond. Perhaps being "less easy going", even if you have to make yourself do it, is the way to go? I'm just throwing out ideas here

 

After I wrote what I did, I did give some thought to this very thing. You make a very good point.

What if I was more assertive in certain areas the beginning stages, what difference might it make?

But then I am not being genuine.

 

I am confidently assertive in the fact that I am not a push over with a man, nor do I chase them. I am pleased with my boundaries as far as pace and intimacy and I don't do things until which time I feel ready. The men I have dated have been aware of these parts of me because they have come up against them. I feel they respected me more for it.

 

So, does me choosing the restaurant really make a difference? If that's where I see I am lacking. (I don't mean to sound flip)

 

Yes, both S & M were passive. I knew this and wrote about it in the onset. (or passive aggressive)

Not typically my type but my type hadn't been working for me.

I've dated men who were assertive and aggressive and I get a different shade of the same result.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I said I was the common denominator.

This is like a riddle I can't seem to solve. It makes my head hurt.

[reinventmyself]

You see, when a person shows up already positioned as a victim or ready to become the victim, it means that you (or whoever they’re engaging with) are already positioned as the assailant or that you will become one in the blink of an eye if you trigger their victim role reflexes.

 

wow. . just wow

[notalady]

You see, when a person shows up already positioned as a victim or ready to become the victim, it means that you (or whoever they’re engaging with) are already positioned as the assailant or that you will become one in the blink of an eye if you trigger their victim role reflexes.

 

wow. . just wow

 

Is this something you read? Or did you write that? I assume thats referring to S right?

[faraday]

I am the same. I want someone else to come up with the plan (if they invite me out) and I don't care if we go for sushi or tacos when friends are picking places to meet up. I just don't care. People think I'm super happy and go with the flow...easy going. I'm not really, I am very specific about a lot of things...but usually just the aesthetics of things (because...artist).

 

I don't think it's necessarily that you attract them more than the average person...but that you don't filter them out soon enough. I like men that plan dates. I like men that take care of things....and me. But the minute someone starts talking about jealousy or how they're uncomfortable with some aspect of my life...the faster I'm out of there. No thanks. I'm not here to deal with other people's issues...I work on my own and I expect others to as well.

 

Food for thought.

 

I rarely attract controlling men. It only happened once.

[reinventmyself]

Is this something you read? Or did you write that? I assume thats referring to S right?

I read it and yes, S showed up claiming to be wounded and I had to pay for it.

[reinventmyself]

I am the same. I want someone else to come up with the plan (if they invite me out) and I don't care if we go for sushi or tacos when friends are picking places to meet up. I just don't care. People think I'm super happy and go with the flow...easy going. I'm not really, I am very specific about a lot of things...but usually just the aesthetics of things (because...artist).

 

I don't think it's necessarily that you attract them more than the average person...but that you don't filter them out soon enough. I like men that plan dates. I like men that take care of things....and me. But the minute someone starts talking about jealousy or how they're uncomfortable with some aspect of my life...the faster I'm out of there. No thanks. I'm not here to deal with other people's issues...I work on my own and I expect others to as well.

 

Food for thought.

 

I rarely attract controlling men. It only happened once.

Yah, I just got home from spending the eve with my best friend. She knew that there were some garden variety trust issues but as I told her some specific stories she was shocked. Sadly as I drive home I realize that in the moment I'm experiencing it w S, I'm not having half the reaction she's having as I admit to some things I myself was trying to overlook.

So frusterated sith myself because as I say them out loud or wfite them down I hear how bad they sound.

[notalady]

I think faraday has a good point, you did put up with M for quite a long while as well despite the red flags and it's happened again with S, which in hindsight you can see how bad it was.

[reinventmyself]

I think faraday has a good point, you did put up with M for quite a long while as well despite the red flags and it's happened again with S, which in hindsight you can see how bad it was.

 

As much as I know better I kept fooling myself into thinking things would improve. (And to give S credit, there was improvement)

With both of these insecure men I was naive enough to believe it when they told me it would get better once they got to know me. After all that's what they said It's not the worst thing in the world to give someone a chance when they appear to be sincere and back it up with actions. Just not enough to make a difference, I guess

 

With this knowledge it doesn't make it easier. Well. . .I guess it must. It must feel somewhat better than a healthy relationship ending. But I don't think I know what that's like.

[reinventmyself]

Yah, I just got home from spending the eve with my best friend. She knew that there were some garden variety trust issues but as I told her some specific stories she was shocked. Sadly as I drive home I realize that in the moment I'm experiencing it w S, I'm not having half the reaction she's having as I admit to some things I myself was trying to overlook.

So frusterated sith myself because as I say them out loud or wfite them down I hear how bad they sound.

Remind me to type with my glasses on when I am posting from my phone. . good grief

[Ms Darcy]

I don't think it's necessarily that you attract them more than the average person...but that you don't filter them out soon enough. I like men that plan dates. I like men that take care of things....and me. But the minute someone starts talking about jealousy or how they're uncomfortable with some aspect of my life...the faster I'm out of there.

 

I agree. I think it's that simple. I remember there were several occassions where there was a dust-up with S and there were recommendations that you two were incompatible. And yet you pushed back and actively wanted to keep working on it. Flags were there. They were raised and discussed. You were aware of them. You chose to stay.

 

I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just saying that you need to think about why you stayed ... and probably would still be there if he hadn't called it a day.

[reinventmyself]

I agree. I think it's that simple. I remember there were several occassions where there was a dust-up with S and there were recommendations that you two were incompatible. And yet you pushed back and actively wanted to keep working on it. Flags were there. They were raised and discussed. You were aware of them. You chose to stay.

 

I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just saying that you need to think about why you stayed ... and probably would still be there if he hadn't called it a day.

 

Thanks for your honesty and you are right, I would have stayed longer.

But I do know I can ultimately end things, long past it's sell date though. There's that nasty little ego thing that would have preferred to navigate this so I could be the one to leave and not be left. . But oh well.

 

Kudo's to S for being braver than myself.

 

I had to admit to myself and my therapist that the weeks prior I had a little voice I was ignoring.

 

I asked myself: "So D, where is this going? If you take this to the end what are your expectations?"

The little voice responded: "I would have to give up and compromise so much of myself to accommodate S's needs and growing demands and I don't think I can do this"

 

I didn't want to listen to that. It absolutely broke my heart. "oh no, not again" I wanted to hang on to all the good things and ignore the bad.

 

I still miss him. . every single minute.

[reinventmyself]

Another weekend behind me. It's hard to readjust from having someone in your physical and emotional space and then poof, it's gone. I am trying to stay busy but everything feels like a chore. I was supposed to meet friends last night and opted out. Today I get dressed and took my mom to see my son's new place that he's working on then to a nice lunch on the beach. Such a gorgeous day and as much as I tried I barely enjoyed it. I don't think I said two words to either my son or my mom. I feel this pull to come home and hibernate on the couch and by mid afternoon that's where I ended up again

I hope this passes soon.

 

I continue to have these small flashes that make me jump. They are memories of moments with him and when it's the furthest thing from my mind they flash by. Last night the flash of what it felt like to lean into him while he leaned against the counter and held me like he did so many times before. It's weird I am not doing anything to conjure up the things but they flash in a way that startles me and I seriously jump. Hoping this passes soon as well.

 

It's hard to hold onto the things he did during the relationship as if I am still in denial. I read and reread my list of things and I can I am just skimming over it and not taking it in. I wrestle with taking the blame seeing he's the one that left.

 

I added to my list today the time I shared with him that I felt I had to sensor myself with him. That it made me sad that I didn't feel safe telling him things and being overly concerned about his reactions. His response: "So you're hiding things from me,then" Me: `You're missing my point"

[reinventmyself]

I am having a really hard time.

Some one please remind me why I shouldn't be with him or reach out to him.

I know it sounds pathetic, but I feel pretty pathetic right now.

I get to work and I start to cry. I can't keep doing this.

[WithLove]

You couldn't be who you are around him.

You had to constantly sensor yourself.

You couldn't be 100% honest with him because his feelings would get hurt.

He was jealous of time you spent with your friends, male and female, and it made you resentful.

 

 

I'm really sorry you're hurting. (((big hugs)))

[faraday]

You shouldn't reach out to him because he broke up with you. Contacting him is a move of desperation.

 

But you know breaking up was the right decision. You couldn't take a shower and talk to your son without him having meltdowns. You got in trouble for going out with same sex friends. Only tramps go bars (even to listen to music with friends). Make friends weren't allowed. You couldn't be yourself with him. Yet, he could go for dinner with several women at a time.

 

So many reasons why you shouldn't be with him.

[reinventmyself]

But you know breaking up was the right decision. You couldn't take a shower and talk to your son without him having meltdowns. You got in trouble for going out with same sex friends. Only tramps go bars (even to listen to music with friends). Make friends weren't allowed. You couldn't be yourself with him. Yet, he could go for dinner with several women at a time.

.

^^ this is why I feel so pathetic. Why do I still miss him? It's hard when someone chooses to leave. The hit to myself self esteem makes me question myself so much.

[Realitynut]

Join the club with the rest of us. Our brain says one thing....our heart is FEELING another.

 

Always easy to dish out advice...but when it come to actually having it happen to US....it's easier said than done.

 

Been there. Done that.

 

You know the drill. It just takes time......

 

I've felt pathetic for a LONG time now. You'll bounce back fast! You were getting sick of him....

[reinventmyself]

too late, I already emailed him:

 

Me: The mornings are the hardest. . .I miss you so much (stupid and impulsive, I know)

 

Him: It is for me too. I miss being able to reach out and touch you when I want to.

I am so glad you kept the shoes, it makes me smile a bit knowing a you'll enjoy them.

 

Me: I never opened the box. Just too hard.

 

. . .silence.

[WithLove]

D, noooooo.

 

Block him.

[reinventmyself]

"f . . . . . . . . . . . me