Online Dating - A Woman's Journal

[annie24]

I agree, I never do IM, mostly because I don't want to be taken by surprise in the early stages and I want to have a certain pace and control.

 

wouldn't you say though annie24 that how someone communicates from the start it says something about them? this is after all the first impression we make.

 

oh yeah, you definitely never get a second chance to make a first impression. i had a date with a guy on match lined up. we had decided to meet on a sunday afternoon, but didn't have a definite time/place. sunday rolls around, i call him at 1 to see what's going on. he calls me an hour later to tell me that his family took him on a surprise trip on Friday for his birthday. he asked if we could reschedule. i initially agreed, but then sent him an email cancelling because i told him, he knew since Friday that he would be out of town on Sunday, he should have told me sooner. I told him that it left a very bad first impression and I was no longer interested in seeing him. He wrote back that he didn't think it was a big deal because i told him i had some stuff planned for that Sunday morning and I hadn't started my new job yet either. I told him I thought it was rude to not just tell me when he knew, and wished him good luck in his future dating search. Then he wrote back some rude stuff to me. yuck. I also saw throughout the weekend that he was on link removed (possibly on his mobile site? so he could have called/texted/wrote me at any time to let me know Sunday wasn't going to happen).

[NorthDallas40]

I agree, I never do IM, mostly because I don't want to be taken by surprise in the early stages and I want to have a certain pace and control.

 

Ditto. When someone IM's me on OKC, I generally ignore it entirely for the reasons you've outlined. Regular OKC messaging is my preference at first; I don't want to be held to someone else's schedule if I don't even know them yet.

 

wouldn't you say though annie24 that how someone communicates from the start it says something about them? this is after all the first impression we make.

 

EXACTLY. Unfortunately if I received some of the messages that the OP has sent some of these guys, I would run the other way thinking she was uptight and controlling. Granted, Miss M has explained that some of these guys are indeed flaky as hell, so maybe that is the intended result.

[quirky]

Ditto. When someone IM's me on OKC, I generally ignore it entirely for the reasons you've outlined. Regular OKC messaging is my preference at first; I don't want to be held to someone else's schedule if I don't even know them yet.

 

For real.

 

I also don't have OKC app nor use my phone to check unless I know I will be mega busy and will check on the bus journey to/from work.

 

Miss maple, out of curiosity..what goes on for you deep down when these guys are flakey/disrespectful in your eyes, what does it trigger?

 

I have to give it to the OP though that she doesn't dwell on things at all neither seems intimidated or turned off by what others could see as rejection. And I think that is a great trait and essential to online dating.

[bluebell29]

OP, I think Batya has given you some excellent advice. I used to have some of the tendencies you have and all it made me ever come accross as was difficult. Especially with online dating, I think judging someone should only start when you at least meet them for the first time. I'm also on match and never do IM and prefer initially exchanging emails at my own pace. When people are on these sites, if they are anything like me, they will also probably be writing an email to a friend, doing online shopping, skyping with a family member, etc. at the same time. The point is people are complete strangers at this point and noone owes anyone anything and noone should be judged for not replying within certain time frames unless they are really dragging things out too much for your liking in which case, you could decide they are not going to be a good match and just ignore them. No need for any explanations at that stage.

Being argumentative, telling people the whole truth like it is is actually you focusing on them over you. You need 'them' to know in no uncertain terms. Why? What good would that do to you? You could keep it short and sweet and in that way you will waste less of your own time and mental/emotional energy which you could then dedicate to someone else in a more positive way.

[quirky]

When people are on these sites, if they are anything like me, they will also probably be writing an email to a friend, doing online shopping, skyping with a family member, etc. at the same time.

 

I never do that

I'm not good with multi tasking though plus I prefer to pay attention to one person/activity at a time.

I mainly go online to check and reply to messages. Sometimes I push myself to search new profiles too, maybe look at 3 a day at most.

 

The point is people are complete strangers at this point and noone owes anyone anything

 

Even though I agree with the concept I don't fully practice that principle in my every day life. I acknowledge people around me, smile at them, listen to them if they are saying something, I am referring to shop assistants, bus driver, people in the library etc. I acknowledge them and treat them with respect, something that is not granted with online dating. And many people both men and women can find it hurtful.

[bluebell29]

Even though I agree with the concept I don't fully practice that principle in my every day life. I acknowledge people around me, smile at them, listen to them if they are saying something, I am referring to shop assistants, bus driver, people in the library etc. I acknowledge them and treat them with respect, something that is not granted with online dating. And many people both men and women can find it hurtful.

 

I'm referring strictly to online dating, not real life interactions. I think that in relationships anyway, your happiness is in your own hands and if you are going to start putting it in the other person's hands and start emotionally investing at the stage of exchanging a few lines of text online and NOTHING more, I think you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment.

[solamente]

i agree mostly with Miss M and Quirky. there is a LOT to be said for basic courtesy and politeness, even and especially towards 'strangers'. if a person can't do that for someone he may be interested in dating, then that says a lot to me... a lot negative.

 

i also agree that there is no need to explain why you are no longer interested in someone who can't be courteous or polite, but i don't see any harm whatsoever in letting them know. who cares?? maybe they will actually hear you and learn something.

 

i think you are getting an extremely hard time here by several posters and it is unwarranted.

[Batya33]

i agree mostly with Miss M and Quirky. there is a LOT to be said for basic courtesy and politeness, even and especially towards 'strangers'. if a person can't do that for someone he may be interested in dating, then that says a lot to me... a lot negative.

 

i also agree that there is no need to explain why you are no longer interested in someone who can't be courteous or polite, but i don't see any harm whatsoever in letting them know. who cares?? maybe they will actually hear you and learn something.

 

i think you are getting an extremely hard time here by several posters and it is unwarranted.

 

I don't think trying to teaching strangers or near-strangers who are adults how to treat people is a productive way to live and increases stomach acid too much (and it's most often ineffective especially on an on line dating site -that person is never going to "listen" to typed words from someone who is a stranger and of course biased). And it can be unsafe- typed words come accross much harsher, the person often knows what you look like and you don't want that person to snap for some reason and then be on the lookout for you in real life. It's just not worth it especially when if you're really honest with yourself it's not about teaching someone else but about being right. Not worth it.

[Ms Darcy]

Yeesh. You just seem argumentative by nature, OP.

 

I agree with Batya and Calichick. Righteous, tactless, argumentative are words that came to mind as I was reading your thread. And picky ... but that's within your right. The first three, though, will just keep you single. Of course, it will keep you right all the time ... but it will keep you single. Single is fine unless you are actually wanting a relationship.

[missmarple]

Well, in a few words:

I'm not trying to teach anyone anything. I had deleted the guy and sent a polite email where I explained the reason why. He emailed me back asking something and yes, I replied. I wasted..what?....a few seconds from my time. Sure, some of you wouldn't do it. Well, I do it. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Second...

Because aside from future "networking" or even dating possibilities, IMO this kind of behavior makes the person look desperate, needy for attention, self-righteous, impatient, judgmental, have no life, or any number of similar negative perceptions most people would rather not have aimed at them.

 

To whom exactly did I look like I am all those things?

To Greg? Well, guess what...I couldn't care less because it was already a person I'd decided I don't want to pursue something with...so, why would I care what he thinks of me? I also think about him that he's rude, flaky and doesn't know what he wants.

To normal people, who know how to chat to another human being, I can assure you I look nothing like that..because they treat me nicely, I treat them nicely....no matter if something will come out of the chat/meeting or not...and that's why I've made friends through online dating (and through the net in general).

 

 

Third:

No girl I've just met will ever hear me complain about them not texting / chatting back with me soon enough. Why? Because I don't want her to think that I'm hanging on her every word, let alone that I care about whether she pays attention or not. Being nonchalant puts you in the driver's seat. Chastising the online etiquette of someone you don't even know just looks pathetic IMO, even if it's warranted.

 

I don't want to appear anything, ND. I am who I am. I never 'complained' to Greg or to anyone, I just explained why I had deleted him. I don't care about being in 'the driver's seat'. I care about meeting someone I'm compatible with and yes, I do care if someone pays attention or not. When I don't care, I don't even bother arranging a meeting.

 

And, finally,

I think it's not being classy to be argumentative with someone at this point, based on so little. Better to be classy, take the high road, say something short and sweet. Plus, it keeps the lines of communication open in case he did have a genuine reason for being away from the IM session. If someone gets bent out of shape over a small thing that doesn't matter, how do they react when something big happens?

 

I'm not sure what your definition of classy is and why the truth is considered 'non classy'. I also don't know, as I've said before, why I should be 'sweet' to someone who, in my opinion, is being rude to me. I wasn't rude with him. I didn't 'get bent out of shape'. You're talking as if I told him go to hell, Greg. All I did was send an email saying I deleted you because of this reason..and then answered his own emails honestly.

 

Update re. the date with Keith coming up.

[missmarple]

I agree with Batya and Calichick. Righteous, tactless, argumentative are words that came to mind as I was reading your thread. And picky ... but that's within your right. The first three, though, will just keep you single. Of course, it will keep you right all the time ... but it will keep you single. Single is fine unless you are actually wanting a relationship.

 

Well, I had to answer this one.

How on earth am I 'tactless?' He was the one who couldn't even arrange a date, who kept disappearing without even a BRB or any sort of explanation and I'm the tactless one?

Yes, I want a relationship but I want a relationship with someone who knows how to behave to a woman. That means put in the MINIMUM effort required for arranging a date...like 'ok, miss marple, how about Sunday at 8pm?' If someone can't even do that little thing, what relationship are we talking about?

[Ms Darcy]

Well, I had to answer this one.

How on earth am I 'tactless?' He was the one who couldn't even arrange a date, who kept disappearing without even a BRB or any sort of explanation and I'm the tactless one?

Yes, I want a relationship but I want a relationship with someone who knows how to behave to a woman. That means put in the MINIMUM effort required for arranging a date...like 'ok, miss marple, how about Sunday at 8pm?' If someone can't even do that little thing, what relationship are we talking about?

 

Are you actually interested in knowing how some of your communications are perceived as tactless? Or are you wanting to continue to argue?

 

I think several different people have done a great job in outlining why your statements were argumentative. Personally if someone said "I just said I couldn't make it at 2pm but I could later in the afternoon or in the evening and waited for you to tell me a time..and waited...and waited...and nothing..so, I left..you could have called me (you have my phone number although you've never used it) but you didn't...so, I assumed you're not interested in meeting me, so, why would I be?" - to me, I would stop talking to them.

 

No point in arguing with that guy (or previous guys). If you are not interested, just leave it be. If you actually wanted him to understand his perspective, there was no need to go point by point into your arguments like a lawyer cross-examining a witness. The words are just salty, girl, just salty. And it's made worse by it being online rather than on the phone or in person where you can't hear tone and/or see body language that might soften the words.

 

I think wanting someone who knows how to behave to a woman requires you to be one who knows how to behave to a man in turn.

[missmarple]

The second date with Keith started badly..and ended awkwardly.

 

First of all, we had agreed he'd pick me up outside the cafe, where I'd be with my friend. At 9pm. Well, he appeared INSIDE the cafe at 8.10pm and, ofcourse, he sat with us. That meant I couldn't talk with my friend..and I had told him that I hadn't seen her since Christmas and we wanted to talk...well, we didn't. We just sat there, all 3 of us, talking about general stuff.

Afterwards, we took her home. In the car, I said wasn't our date for 9? He said yeah, but I was bored at home. I let it slide because I was already in a bad mood and didn't feel like arguing.

I took him to a nice piano bar (he doesn't know the area at all)..and then it turned awkward as he asked what I think of him. I said well, I liked our first date and I'd like to get to know you better but he kept pushing for an answer to a question he hadn't even asked. I was confused, then he got confused, then we were both confused. He did try to kiss me at some point, I pulled back and he said 'so, you're not sure you like me'. I said it's too soon to know if I like you like that, I think you're good looking and seem nice but that's all for now. And he goes 'if something starts with someone not being sure...' and he stops. Before I had time to say something, he continues 'but we can stay friends, I have many female friends'. By that point, I didn't know what to say so, I said I have a headache (which I did!) and I'd rather go home. He drove me home, we said goodnight, he said he'll stay in touch but, frankly, I'm not sure I want him to.

 

I found one more email by Greg

 

i think it's all been a huge misunderstanding..to which I didn't reply

 

I also found an email (in my normal email, not the site as he's blocked there) by Paul (the one who had stood me up)

 

baby, baby...I had gone to (place where we were supposed to meet) but you weren't there...tell me DATE, PLACE, TIME and I'll be waiting!....also, I didn't bother replying

 

Finally, new guy, Jim, 41, single, computer programmer, good looking, seems easygoing and fun. We've only talked once, he asked me to meet tomorrow, I said let's talk on the phone first, he said ok but then I had to go so I said just send the number to my email. Tonight, when I came back from the date, he had sent me an email with his phone number saying 'send me a text message when you're back and I'll call you tomorrow'. So, I did.

[annie24]

I'm not sure what your definition of classy is and why the truth is considered 'non classy'.

 

Well, I'm finding your responses to these men rather harsh and accusative, and particularly like they are some slight against you. Better to say, "sorry, not interested anymore..." and move on.

 

Regarding Greg - It sounds like he is making the effort and thinks that there's been a big misunderstanding. Would you be willing to hear him out?

 

With Paul, how long after your date did you get that email? Did he know your phone number if there really was some confusion about the date?

 

Keith: What a werido.

 

At the end of the day, we're just strangers, trying to help you out with your dating life. Honestly, it doesn't affect my life one bit who you go or don't go out with. We're trying to help you see things from a different perspective, which I hope would be helpful? If you feel like what you're doing right now is working for you, then by all means, stick with it.

[missmarple]

No point in arguing with that guy (or previous guys). If you are not interested, just leave it be. If you actually wanted him to understand his perspective, there was no need to go point by point into your arguments like a lawyer cross-examining a witness. The words are just salty, girl, just salty. And it's made worse by it being online rather than on the phone or in person where you can't hear tone and/or see body language that might soften the words.

 

I think wanting someone who knows how to behave to a woman requires you to be one who knows how to behave to a man in turn.

 

HE asked. I answered. Honestly. I wasn't arguing. I was stating facts.

I can behave fine to men who know how to behave to me...and to men who don't, if they're interested in knowing what went wrong, I tell them what went wrong.

As to 'you'd stop talking to someone who said something like that'..well, you know I didn't care about talking to him any more, anyway...that's why I had deleted him.

That email wasn't aimed at a person I was interested in dating or even meeting anymore. It was aimed at someone who wasn't right for me...hopefully, I have the right to judge whether someone is right for me or not

[Ms Darcy]

I would say that it's interesting that out of maybe 10 responders 7/8 think you are harsh and/or argumentative in your communications with these men.

 

I don't know if or how that spills into real life relationships ... but that would be interesting to know.

[itsallgrand]

You are pretty intense, Miss M. That's just my opinion, of course. I see some of myself in you, and some of it are things that didn't serve me well. A sort of ease in scratching people off. A low tolerance for frustration. A sort of aggressiveness.

 

I think you don't need to necessarily change who you are, to tone it down. I don't know about you yourself - but I've had feedback in previous relationships and from previous dating that made me think about some of those attitudes. Things like,

"I feel like you get to say whatever you want, but if I say something, you will come down hard on me if it's not what you want to hear"

"It can be hard to talk with you sometimes."

"You can be really harsh."

etc.

 

Hearing it enough times, it starts to make a person wonder if there isn't something to it.

 

I am surprised Greg reached out. You didn't reply?! I don't know what else you could expect of the guy. I guess you scratched him off forever now eh.

 

I agree with the other people who don't 'do' IMing. I think it's just ripe for annoyances and a really bad way to get to know someone. Same reason I keep texting way down too.

[calichick007]

OP, I understand how the responses to this thread might trigger a defensive posture -- but considering that so very many of us read your interactions precisely the same way, might you just consider that it could be an issue? I actually am a lawyer and am stereotypically prone to wanting to be right, needing people to understand my POV at all costs, feeling inclined to lay out where someone went wrong and what they could have done/what I would have done instead... but that has never served me well in the dating world. Except for with men who will allow me to steamroll them, which isn't my cup of tea. It doesn't mean I roll over and become a doormat, but it does mean that I think about how my words and tone might be interpreted -- particularly via email, text, etc. -- and I try to dial back any instinct to become accusatory or lecturing, especially with someone who hasn't known me long enough to accept that little propensity as a character flaw that's offset by plenty of other awesome things I have going on.

 

Sometimes I'll even run things by friends IRL before I say them, just to get an objective read. If a bunch of people interpret it the same way, I can suck it up and consider that perhaps I should readjust.

[missmarple]

Well, I'm finding your responses to these men rather harsh and accusative, and particularly like they are some slight against you. Better to say, "sorry, not interested anymore..." and move on..Regarding Greg - It sounds like he is making the effort and thinks that there's been a big misunderstanding. Would you be willing to hear him out?

 

I did, annie. That's what I did with Greg (I'm not sure who else you're referring to by 'these men'). My first email to him was I deleted you from my list because I don't think you're interested in meeting me..or something like that. How's that harsh and accusative? It was just the truth. He could have easily answered 'you're wrong, let's meet'. He didn't. HE was the one arguing, not me.

About whether I'd be interested in hearing him out, at this point, the only thing he could possibly say to me would be 'let's meet'. He's not saying it, he just keeps arguing..that's why I said I don't think he's ready to date.

 

With Paul, how long after your date did you get that email? Did he know your phone number if there really was some confusion about the date?.

 

Tonight! 10 days or so after the date...and yes, he knew my phone number..and my email...and, remember, I had called him on the night of the date and he hadn't even picked up the phone.

 

 

At the end of the day, we're just strangers, trying to help you out with your dating life. Honestly, it doesn't affect my life one bit who you go or don't go out with. We're trying to help you see things from a different perspective, which I hope would be helpful? If you feel like what you're doing right now is working for you, then by all means, stick with it.

 

I appreciate all your comments. Sometimes they've been helpful and, in any case, I like reading different opinions. Yes, it is working for me. I go out with many guys, after all, as you know. I don't go out with guys when I feel we're not compatible..I have my dealbreakers, like everyone. For some women, a dealbreaker is a man's height or job or kids..for me it's behaving like he couldn't care less.

[calichick007]

Paul is ridiculous. Ugh @ "baby, baby..." Really?

[itsallgrand]

Paul is ridiculous. Ugh @ "baby, baby..." Really?

 

lol. Just like Justin Bieber. Baby baby baby.

[missmarple]

considering that so very many of us read your interactions precisely the same way, might you just consider that it could be an issue?.

 

Yes, I have considered it..but, considering I go out with an average of 2-3 guys a week and with those guys I've never had an argument in person, I can't be THAT argumentative or harsh. How do I arrange dates so easily with those men and not at all with others? How did I meet Keith on the same day we talked (and not just Keith) and not Greg (and he lives much closer to me and we had talked much more).

 

Could it be because it's not me that's argumentative, harsh, judgemental, whatever but that the guys I choose not to date are the ones with the problem?

[bluebell29]

My experience is very similar. Having a high pressure job, I had tendencies towards being controlling, directing, running the show my way etc. until I realised that this approach does not work in personal life. I realised that I had to majorly change my way of thinking if I really wanted to let another person into my life. I would say just think about it and introspect a little rather than writing off all of the advice of those of us asking you to consider your approach.

[missmarple]

LOL I'm not controlling and, frankly, I'm surprised that people here seem to think I am. None of my friends has ever called me controlling..none of my boyfriends or ex husband either.

Most of the guys I've gone out with have found me sweet and easygoing..and I AM easygoing. I'm happy letting the guy plan the date, I don't have any particular requirements, I don't expect men to chase me or call me daily or text me daily or 'beg' to get a date with me and, when I feel it's worth it, I'll give someone a second chance.

What I'm not ok with is someone wasting my time. Greg was wasting my time. I gave him a chance to show me I was wrong. He didn't take it. He just kept talking and talking without addressing the real issue..i.e. if he wanted to meet or not. If he had, we'd have already met.

[calichick007]

Could it be because it's not me that's argumentative, harsh, judgemental, whatever but that the guys I choose not to date are the ones with the problem?

 

Could it be both? Could it be that you can opt not to date someone by simply doing it, without engaging in an argument or lecture? Again, you don't seem at all open to considering that you might have a part to play in these unpleasant interactions, which is your prerogative. But even with a lot of the guys you have gone out with, the stories are peppered with all of the things you "let slide." I don't know how it translates in person, but your posts just emit an I'm-always-right vibe -- with many of the guys you date, and very frequently in response to those who respond in this thread. That's all.

 

In any event, it's not my intention to derail the thread. I'll read silently for now.