Online Dating - A Woman's Journal

[annie24]

I deleted Greg from my list. After that 'conversation' yesterday about meeting, I really don't see a reason to keep talking to him. I sent him this email:

 

Greg, it was nice meeting you on the site and I enjoyed our chats but, obviously, you're too busy to meet new people..or, at least, to meet me

So, I bid you farewell and good luck

 

I don't get it - what was wrong with Greg? I can't find the conversation you had with him yesterday. Did you ask to see him?

[Batya33]

Whenever I have been in the emergency room, the last thought on my mind has been "let me text that guy I've been talking to online...." Obviously, we don't know what they're up to. I know personally, if someone deleted me off their list, I wouldn't try again because it sends a strong message of "I am no longer interested in you!"

 

LOL -same here.

 

Missmarple -just so you understand that I had high standards I'll share an example from 8 years ago. I emailed through a dating site with A, who was on paper a great match for me and our phone call was great too. He said (and I took notes on all these guys because I was a master juggler but didn't want to get the details wrong) that he would call/e-mail me the following Monday to make a plan for mid-week to meet for coffee. We probably had our phone call on a Friday or over a weekend. I would have made a plan to meet right then but he was the one who wanted to get back to me for whatever reason. He did not get in touch with me until the following Wednesday - I believe it was by email -with no acknowledgement -much less an apology -about not getting in touch Monday -I replied to his email that I was no longer interested in meeting because he hadn't gotten in touch when he said he would. He was VERY surprised - it was obvious that he thought he was such a great catch that I wouldn't even notice. And I'm sure many other women would let it slide so he had learned that he didn't need to be that reliable. That was only one example of many.

 

I'm around your age and I get the sense that you really like to be right (I also was a teacher, many years ago) - I get that sense by how you feel you need to teach or chastise these men you barely know and how you react to the argument/debate triggers. It's all about balance but I try to remind myself "it's better to be close than to be right". That usually applies more to close relationships but I think it applies here too. And I think you'll find that many men who text you often are not all that interested in getting to know you or in dating you -and by contrast, there are men who will be in touch with you once or twice a week in the beginning -but the purpose will be to make a plan and then confirm the plan -and then maybe an email or two if something interesting happens - but when that person sees you in person his attention will be on you, he will be interested in what you have to say and because you haven't been playing the "let's get to know each other by typing and do the whole "how was that cinnamon roll you had for breakfast" it will be fresher/more interesting and perhaps more exciting. There's a benefit to that approach too.

 

Before my husband and I were officially together we got to know each other again over a 3-week period - we saw each other 3 times - but between times there was one 7-day stretch where I didn't hear from him and I was sad about that (but our get togethers were platonic at that point)- and worried. I held tight, I contacted him once or twice by email and it turned out there was a good reason why he hadn't been in touch. The next time I saw him - a week later- he asked if we could get back together -after that we were in touch daily - usually he called for practical reasons but there was no waiting or wondering - because we both participated.

 

If I had written him off for that 7-day period I wouldn't have my incredible family or my oh-so-much-easier-to-pronounce-and-spell married name, among other things. Not only was he interested -he wanted to make me his ASAP because he could sense that I was probably dating other people (and he was right).

[missmarple]

annie...this is what happened with Greg yesterday:

 

 

 

 

Batya,

I REALLY don't think I'm strident. Maybe it looks that way in the posts here, I don't know.I consider myself a fairly easygoing person.

The things I'm looking for in a partner are few. I'm looking for someone I'm attracted to, who has a job and treats me nicely.

That's it. I don't want a guy to call me daily. Or text me daily. Or date me daily.

I don't want to be chased..but I don't want to chase either.

 

With these 2 guys, in particular (Tony and Keith) I did something I usually don't do. I texted them both after the date. In Tony's case I even wrote back after his reply (made a joke) but he never answered (I don't think I had mentioned this). Then new year comes and nothing. Now it's 5 days after the date and still nothing. The same things, more or less, go for Keith, too...but much worse. When a person makes it a point to tell you that he feels lonely, he doesn't have many friends, his family is so far away, the only thing he has planned for new year's eve is to have a drink at a friend's bar...and then he won't even text or call you in 4 days...it is disappointing.

 

However, just out of curiosity, I'll text them both happy new year. I don't expect anything to come out of this but, since both you and annie insist so much, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt..and report back.

[Batya33]

I understand -we're really not that far apart you know. It will be interesting to see what the response is to your texts -nothing to lose.

Just curious -were your expectations different in your 20s pre-cell phone and Internet?

[annie24]

Well, Greg did ask you out... Personally, I hate IMing because to me, it's a bit like knocking on someone's door and barging in. It sounds like he was busy, with what, I don't know. Some people run a home business or work online a lot and while they might be online, they might not be free to talk. In that case, they should put their "busy" light on, or whatever.

 

He did ask you out, so I think you jumped the gun telling him off because he didn't get back to you with a time quickly enough. I think you need to stop being so defensive, I know you say you haven't been hurt, but your actions make it appear like you have and that you're actively trying to avoid a relationship. My 2 cents... I could be wrong of course...

[missmarple]

annie, he doesn't work from home. He doesn't work online. He kept me waiting without as much as a brb. He still kept me waiting after I told him what time I'm free. He never said 'look, I'll get to you later'. He had all the opportunities to say yes, let's meet at so and so time and he didn't. He could call me if he wanted to. Email me. Whatever. He did nothing. The reason I deleted him today (and not yesterday) was because I wanted to give him one more chance. If I was busy and, at the same time, tried to arrange a date with someone I was interested in, I would tell them 'sorry, hold on'...and if they left, I would call them and apologise.

 

I've no idea when basic manners became something that we shouldn't expect from men. Seriously.

[annie24]

I just think you have to tone down some expectations. You don't know him from a hole in the wall (or these other men), so you can't presume to know what they are doing at home or what is occupying their time when they are not online. Not everyone's life revolves around online dating. Yeah, you shouldn't tolerate bad treatment or ignore red flags, but these are virtual strangers we're talking about here. Not every email needs to be answered in microseconds. I suspect some of these men may be waiting to schedule a date because they have tentative plans with someone else (either another date or a friend or family member) and need to hear from them before they tell you what time they are free to meet you.

[missmarple]

UPDATE

 

I sent the 2 texts an hour ago.

Tony hasn't gotten back to me yet.

 

Keith called me.

We talked for an hour. Ok, I was wrong in his case but it's a special case, for sure.

First of all, he said 'sooo, you remembered me, I thought you had forgotten about me'. That got to me, as you understand and I told him that I could say the same, especially since I was the one who texted him after the date. I said you didn't even send me a happy new year text, mister...he said he was all alone and noone called him to wish happy new year and it just got him down.

Then he said he was scared to call me or message me because he was afraid of rejection. I was shocked.

Apparently, he thought I wasn't interested in him. I was like what? why? He said because I 'left the car in a hurry'. I said then why did I message you after the date? He said I thought you were just being polite. But, I said, I thought we had a good time during the date, we talked about so many things, wasn't it obvious I wanted to get to know you better? He said I thought you were just friendly and I didn't get any other vibes from you.

At that point I told him that of course he got no other vibes because it was the first time I saw him and that's how I behave with men I meet for the first time and that, for me, to show actual romantic interest in someone, I have to date them for a while first.

 

Anyway, then he asked me what I'm doing tomorrow, I said I'm meeting my best friend for coffee and he asked if we could go for a drink afterwards.....so, he's going to come to the cafe and pick me up and we're having that drink.

 

Oh, he also said that now that he knows I want to see him again, he'll be different. I said in what way? He said, I'll be calling you and stuff...lol

 

Batya, thanks for the push. I could never imagine that someone is that shy and that scared of rejection (btw, this doesn't sit well with me regarding a future partner but, oh well, we could end up being good friends).

[NorthDallas40]

MissM I completely agree with your reasoning about cutting off lukewarm people. If they're being slow to respond, I concur that 95% of the time it does indicate disinterest.

 

However, I think your approach is very likely throwing out decent guys who simply have a less intense communication level when first meeting someone. Rather than deleting the slow guys after a week or just a few days, why not keep them on your friends list for 30 days, and then delete if they haven't initiated? It could cut down on some negative reactions and possibly keep a few decent guys in the loop.

 

As for keeping an eagle-eye on peoples' online status and/or calling to them the floor on it, I think it's a bad look. Peoples' "online status" could very well mean they left the computer on while sleeping, or left the app running on their phone while at work. You're very likely making a lot of assumptions that aren't true, and it may make you appear a bit stalkerish. But it's your call.

 

I REALLY don't think I'm strident.

 

Haha really? This gem is the very definition of "strident" to me:

 

it's not panic..it's that it's been over a week that we first talked, you didn't contact me in any way except that hny text and when we finally talked again, you obviously couldn't care less if we met or not...and I think I deserve something better

 

Yikes.

 

Then again, some guys might see your behavior as a challenge and pursue more intently, so maybe some "negging" and reverse psychology could be working in your favor. But only you can determine if that's the case. Do you think it is?

[missmarple]

Not every email needs to be answered in microseconds. I suspect some of these men may be waiting to schedule a date because they have tentative plans with someone else (either another date or a friend or family member) and need to hear from them before they tell you what time they are free to meet you.

 

Agreed but it wasn't emails. It was on the site's instant messenger.

My problem wasn't so much about the time, it was that he kept leaving for long periods of time and never thought of saying 'sorry brb'.

This kind of behaviour shows someone who isn't very considerate of the other person's time.

I've been online for years and I've NEVER left a chat without saying sorry, brb...only in a handful of cases when something really unexpected happened..and it clearly wasn't the case with Greg.

Besides, as I said, he could have called me. Blah, he just wasn't that interested, annie.

[Batya33]

I agree with you ND I just think the standards are being applied far too soon in the process- often before she's actually been on a real date with the person (rather than just a first meet)- I like your approach about the 30 days.

[missmarple]

Haha really? This gem is the very definition of "strident" to me

 

That gem was my honest answer to his question.

 

If expecting someone who's interested in meeting you to behave politely is strident, then, yes, I'm strident.

 

Also, I've no idea what you mean about the online status thing. Am I the only person alive who checks others' online status when they haven't heard from them in days?

[NorthDallas40]

That gem was my honest answer to his question.

 

Understood, but a little humor can go a long way in these cases.

 

In other words:

 

 

Am I the only person alive who checks others' online status when they haven't heard from them in days?

 

I'm the online stalker to end all online stalkers. I'm so obsessive it's pathetic. But I don't let that affect my decisionmaking process nor do I make it obvious to women just how much I've observed their activity. It's fine to check statuses, but keep it to yourself. It's a bad look to make it an issue IMO.

[missmarple]

I'm the online stalker to end all online stalkers. I'm so obsessive it's pathetic. But I don't let that affect my decisionmaking process nor do I make it obvious to women just how much I've observed their activity. It's fine to check statuses, but keep it to yourself. It's a bad look to make it an issue IMO.

 

I don't understand.

When did I make it an issue?

[NorthDallas40]

I don't understand.

When did I make it an issue?

 

You might not make it an issue, but as you've described your thoughts here on ENA it's clearly a bone of contention as it relates to your selection process, and for me personally that's not a helpful habit.

 

Of course I take online status into consideration when looking at the big picture, but I don't judge women on it or make decisions based on when they're online.

 

To wit: I have almost no references to women's online statuses in my own dating journal thread. It's just not an important factor to me.

[missmarple]

You might not make it an issue, but as you've described your thoughts here on ENA it's clearly a bone of contention as it relates to your selection process, and for me personally that's not a helpful habit.

 

Of course I take online status into consideration when looking at the big picture, but I don't judge women on it or make decisions based on when they're online. It's just not an important factor to me.

 

It relates to my selection process if there are other issues involved.

If someone, for example, has my phone number for over a week and never used it, I texted him and he didn't answer AND I see him online all day and he doesn't say hello unless I initiate the conversation, no, I don't waste my time and energy on them. That was Dale's case. He never called me, never texted me, disappeared mid-conversation although he was there (I mean I asked and he said yes, I'm here) and the next couple of days didn't even say hello until new year's eve when we were both online and he didn't even say happy new year. What is the point of keeping someone who's so obviously not interested on your list?

[missmarple]

By the way, any thoughts on Keith? Is he a bit TOO shy or what?

[annie24]

My take is that in your age group (40s-50s), there are a lot of men who are single for a lot of reasons. Some are players, some are so set in their ways, some are weird, some are flakes, some are divorced and have no intentions of marrying again, and then some are genuinely good guys who maybe are single because they aren't Mr. Smooth and have the dating game all figured out. In my opinion, the guys in the last group are the ones you want, because they will make good husbands. A guy who is a bit awkward but with a good heart would probably be a good person to go after. I wouldn't "over-weed" these guys. I like ND's idea of 30 days. It doesn't cost anything to keep them on your list for 30 days and delete them if there has been no progress.

[missmarple]

Ok, I'll take the 30 days suggestion.

 

A little more about Keith's story (since it seems like I'll be seeing him..unless something major happens, of course)

He worked as a bartender when he was very young and got involved with many girls but nothing very serious. Then he met a girl and they lived together for 17 years but never got married for financial reasons (they wanted to buy a house blah blah) until they decided they're not in love anymore and broke up amicably. Then he got into a relationship for a month and this girl left him for her ex. Then he got involved with a 50yo woman (he's 43 now) and they were together, on and off, for a few months until she left him for no apparent reason. Apart from those 3, he hasn't had any other important relationships so far.

[annie24]

glad to hear it! let us know how the date with Keith goes.

[Batya33]

That gem was my honest answer to his question.

 

If expecting someone who's interested in meeting you to behave politely is strident, then, yes, I'm strident.

 

Also, I've no idea what you mean about the online status thing. Am I the only person alive who checks others' online status when they haven't heard from them in days?

I always assumed on line statuses gave no relevant information.

 

The issue is not "behaving politely" it's how you define it.

 

Glad you are giving Keith a chance. I never really bought that whole "I didn't call because I was afraid of rejection" excuse but no harm in seeing him again.

[missmarple]

Glad you are giving Keith a chance. I never really bought that whole "I didn't call because I was afraid of rejection" excuse but no harm in seeing him again.

 

I believed him. If Tony said something like that, I'd laugh at his face but, for Keith, it seemed..I don't know...it made sense, however strange it sounds. He's the sort of person who doesn't really trust himself.

Anyway, I'll see what he'll be like tomorrow.

[Batya33]

I believed him. If Tony said something like that, I'd laugh at his face but, for Keith, it seemed..I don't know...it made sense, however strange it sounds. He's the sort of person who doesn't really trust himself.

Anyway, I'll see what he'll be like tomorrow.

 

I don't think you know Keith well enough to know what sort of person he is to that extent even if you are an excellent read on people. Have fun tomorrow!

[missmarple]

That's true, I don't...but, usually, I'm pretty good at reading insecure people. For some reason, I've found insecure guys are often drawn to me..it has happened to me too many times and I recognise the signs. My ex husband was like that, one of my longest relationships was also like that. There are some signs like they speak in a low voice, they let you take the lead in conversations, they never ask for what they want if they're not sure you want the same thing, etc etc.

After my marriage ended I promised myself I'll never get involved with an insecure guy again....and my phone conversation with Keith last night reminded me a lot of my ex husband.

In any case, I'll go to the date with an open mind and see what happens.

[missmarple]

Greg replied to my last email (the 'gem' as ND said

 

what you're saying makes sense (TAKE THAT, ND..LOL) but I did ask you to meet on Sunday afternoon and you said no...

 

and my reply:

 

I just said I couldn't make it at 2pm but I could later in the afternoon or in the evening and waited for you to tell me a time..and waited...and waited...and nothing..so, I left..you could have called me (you have my phone number although you've never used it) but you didn't...so, I assumed you're not interested in meeting me, so, why would I be?