GH2001

Hey You back... Why do you think I am still in the marriage? No doubt she is hurting too. I am trying to get some help here, not just for me, but my family.

The wife accompanied me to counseling (our first session). The kids are 3 and 6 months by the way. We are trying the counseling angle now (the counselor said that we are already emotionally divorced). I won't approach discussing divorce yet though. I want to exhaust all possibilities. I have been told that I have a lot of hostilities (not violent but anger) built up based upon dysfunctional relationships in my past. My wife is so passive that she seems more of a robot. I hope that I have not done this to her. She is a sweet lady. I just was not thinking when we married 15 years ago. This might sound illogical, but we never fight. We go to our corners and sulk. It has been that way for 15 years. Alot of this can be in the mind, I know. I just have to figure out whether this is a normal eb and flow in our marriage or if it is a symptom of a marriage that is in effect over. The kids add additional stress, but I have been finding myself attracted to other women for about the last seven years. I never act upon these feelings, but this last attraction has been really hard on me. I have only now reached the point, after ten months of being truly in love with someone else, where I am not ready to just go live by myself. However, the mistakes I have made in trying to get the marriage back on track have me very cautious. I have tried to find common ground to no avail for years. There are also religious reasons I don't divorce. Life can sure be a living hell when you are married and keep falling for other women because you are not satisfied emotionally and physically at home.

What does one do when everything that their spouse does, from the sound of their voice, to what they talk about, to what they do, to how they talk to the kids, gets on your nerves? It is like being married to one's annoying sister. The love is long gone from my marriage, we don't have much if anything in common outside of the kids. I have tried finding common ground but we just don't click with each other. The marriage counselor said that my wife needs to challenge me, she is so passive, but in a way I think that might be the final nail in the coffin. I don't want a divorce because of the kids and the extended family (most think we have a perfect marriage). We have been married 15 years and for about the last seven I have been trying to figure out what is wrong, subconsiously at first and consiously for about the last 18 months. For the last seven years I have been falling for other women (I never let it go anywhere with the feelings, keeping them inside). Don't get me wrong, she is a sweet lady, almost too much so. I wonder why I married this woman in the first place. I feel like I am drowning! Help!

It has taken me ten months to get to the point where I don't feel I will be just going through the motions on the way to a divorce. I want to work on the relationship, but my wife drives me nuts (and not in a good way.) The ten months has been the amount of time that it has taken to be able to live with an attraction to another woman. Nothing has happened in that relationship but it is another in a long series of attractions that I attribute to a dissatisfaction with my wife, subconsious at first and growing more and more over the years. Well, the first session put me on the defensive with the female counselor really becoming somewhat confrontational with me. My wife sat there and weeped saying that she was my longest infatuation (like I never loved her). The counselor seemed to have greater pity on my wife than on me. She kept looking at me like I was some kind of great satan.

Those were some good resources. I especially liked the first one. Thanks!

What are the different methods councelors use and which seem to be the best helpful?

What should I expect from marriage counseling. It might be one of the most difficult things I have had to face in my life but it is time. I am pretty darn scared. Any advice, information on what to expect?

I would imagine that counciling is both a last resort and one that few want to take. I had a friend who went into counciling and was asked, "What do you think will be the most difficult thing about counciling?" The answer, "Wanting to come here in the first place." I can identify with that. There is so much at stake, but also your so emotionally detatched by this point that you just don't want to bother. That is why I used the term "force."

You have been given a bitter cup. How was your husband disabled? Could there still be some post trama that has not been acknowledged? How severe is the disabilbity? Your husband needs professional help and it is good that you and he now realize this. He also needs to be dis-armed. Is there a way that you can do this without introducing a violent scene? I agree with everyone else. Be VERY careful and watch him like a hawk until the professionals get him under control. Maybe a hospital stay for him would help both your spouse AND YOU get back to normal. Do you have insurance that will pay for such a stay? That can get very expensive and introduce additional problems. You are the salt of the earth for taking it this long and you should be acknowledged for this. I think this shows your true strength and loving nature. You have the patience of Job.

Isn't staying together for the kids also for the parents? Divorce limits the amount of time each parent can spend with the kids because one-ex-spouse is going to be without the kids a certain percentage of time. I have considered this as I have been going through some tough times with my spouse. I have fallen out of love with her in a way but I still love my kids.

I hope imateddybearfeelmecuddle is not a male Seriously, you should see all of the old fat guys who used to play football or sports at work or the women who used to be beautiful who have sagged here and there. What comes around goes around. Some of us are just not cut out to be sports figures. I play guitar much better than I did at 18. Give it some time. You are trying to cram your 70 years here on earth into 20. You are going to be alright.

You are exactly right about society being too competitive. It has become worse since I was a teenager. Think about this. You have an Avatar of Mr. Jimi, most consider him the best guitarist ever. However, there are other guitarists. How could you judge them as "second chair"? I am talking about Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Stevie Ray Vaugh... the list goes on. They all had (have) a style of their own and were (are) incredible. It was their signature. In art, subcategory guitar playing, it is not who is the fastest, it is who makes the thing sing or even talk!!!! The same is true in life. We are all obsessed with being #1 but in some areas of life you cannot rank success. If you keep trying to be #1 at everything you will make your life miserable. Do you think Clapton worries about his ranking as a guitar hero? Keep trying, you will get there and your life is going to take many paths that you might not expect. Look at your life so far. It has pretty well been dictated to you. You didn't choose your parents or siblings, if you have any. You have not chosen your schools, the government did that. You probably don't even have that much choice in what you drive because you are not earning money today at a rate where you can afford a really great car. You are at the point in life however where you can start to chart a path for yourself. Take great care but also use it as a way to broaden your horizons. Relax, enjoy some of the finer things in life like just playing the guitar FOR ENJOYMENT, drinking a cup of coffee, traveling if you can afford it to places like Santa Fe to just soak in the beauty, or painting. You have a lot of years left to enjoy. Stop trying to compete. You sound very creative. Rebel against the establishment by doing your best, knowing it is your best and telling the world to shove their competitive nature. The world needs more than one guitar player and the world needs YOU. I work with a staff of about 70 professionals. I don't know where I rank, probably around the middle of the pack, but I am still respected just like the worst professional of the lot and we all make roughly the same amount of money. Being average is not that bad and even the worst Doctor in the world has appointments tomorrow for which he will be paid. Ahhh my firend. You can help these people by reaching out. Maybe your calling is to become a peace fighter by protesting these wars, or when you are financially capable, donating money to funds like UNICEF, lending a shoulder to those who are struggling with life by simply listening so they don't get to the point where they need a lobotamy. You can make a difference in someone's life. There is nothing more gratifying than this. Jesus said that, "The poor will always be with us." That is not very comforting in a way because the problem is unsolveable. Maybe it is OUR task, given to use by the Lord of lords, to make certain that they CAN handle what they have been given. Who was a better statesman for peace, George W. Bush or John Lennon? I don't think you have lost. Do you come in last at everything or middle of the pack. I think you have set your expectations too high, to "Be the Best." Again, look at the situation. If it is competitive, like video games or sports, don't focus on them if it causes you anguish to come in second place. Focus on the subjective (like art or music) not the objective (like video games and sports) that use numbers and rankings as measures of success. It is a big plus that you are giving up drugs. You are not a coward for not trying drugs like LSD. You are a survivor and a strong person for giving up the others. Not everyone can do that. I applaud your intelligence there. God does not judge us by our accomplishments but by our hearts. Have you ever heard that, "The meek shall inherit the earth?" God loves all people, even average people, because we know what it is like to struggle. We have to scrape and dig for every inch of ground we make. We are the tortise that eventually will win the race over the hare. We have been given what we can take and that represents our strength. Those who are given losts of success will not understand what it is like to fail. They are weak so God has to give them these things. In a real way the average are strong because we have to work for our accomplishments. In the long run you only have to please two people, yourself and God. You are going to develop a very independent streak out of this that is going to make you a very unique individual in later life. It will take you to places the average Joe-Bob would not even consider. Just give up this competitive streak before it burns you out. Get away from the television! Make your own art, don't depend upon the photons shooting onto the cathode ray tube (or these days LCD/Plasma screen) to entertain you. Have some fun! Why do I know this? I wrote down some of the same things at the age of 16 that you have written down in your essay. It will seem like an eternity to reach 21 from 18 but those four years will set you on a path to becoming an incredible individual. You just have to relax, compete with all your might, and learn to enjoy life for life's sake alone. Be content with being #2. #3 might just be envious of you and so on... You overthink because you are insightful. Work on becoming a deep individual who thinks beyond just getting ahead. Work on becoming unique, not #1.

I really hesitated to reply to this thread. I am kind of in a situation that one might consider the "other side" although I have not cheated on or left my wife. Every day is an emotional roller-coaster because I fell out of love (maybe I was never in-love) with my wife and in love with a co-worker. I attribute this to just simple neglect due to a couple of family issues or maybe even the stress of a second child bringing long standing issues to the forefront of our marriage relationship (we have been married 15 years now). I am not accusing anyone of neglect here. I know it is a really painful situation and the emotions on both sides should not be taken lightly. This is probably the most important thing here... I noticed that the first child, while changing things around the house drastically, does not impact the marriage as much as a second child. The second child almost causes the relationship to become a juggling act.

I have been analyzing this all along. My wife has been gone for a week at her parent's house. She came back today for a birthday party my daughter was invited to attend. She then went back to her parents house and will be back here Monday afternoon. It seems that her former nuclear family has become much more important than our relationship over the past several years, especially since the birth of our daughter 3 years ago. My wife can't say NO to her mother. Her mother is baby crazy demanding to see her grandchildren often. She even "adpots" others children as her grandchildren. Once recently, her mother took our daughter for the weekend when I had stated eariler in the week to my wife that I was going to spend the weekend just being a father to her by taking her to see some of her out of town cousins. I got home the evening before we were going to go on the trip and my daughter was gone. I asked my wife where she was and she said her mother had taken her home for the weekend. Then my wife started crying because she had hurt me and asked if I wanted her to bring her back. What was I to say! The house seems kind of empty tonight. I went out to eat by myself this evening and it started to sink in what being single might be like. I probably deserve what I am getting in a way. I know I have been tought to live with for the past ten months. However, my wife has been difficult to live with too. As I said in an earlier post, this started when she was away from the house so much with her dying Grandmother, I at first became lonely and then just thought subconsiously that maybe I would do better with someone else. Then, the pregnancy demands (New House, New Vehicle...) Then the flirting by the coworker... I wonder sometimes if I am just being too selfish and I think about how much she has been away from the house with the kids. Maybe I just want to start over with a more independent woman. I hope this is a crack in my mental "ice" though and that it will melt away some of the coldness between us. For a long time I didn't want to work on the relationship. It is a hard fight when you are in-love with someone else and you don't love your spouse. Now I think I have reached a point where I can do this. Let's see if my wife is willing, after so many years, to realize the problem and not think it is fixed with a simple apology. I do wish we had more in common. I have tried... What a mess!

That is some really good advice. I had never looked at a separation in that way (is that what you call a separation?) Thanks!

It happened so fast, the realization. I think I am still in a bit of shock. It is just so sad because neither of us thought this would happen to us, especially after 15 years. It will devastate our extended families because my parents have grown to love my wife and children like there own. Of course the in-laws wont' understand either. There is going to be a lot of hatred focused on me. That is scary.

That is a comforting story. Thanks!

For those of you who have attended counciling, isn't it trying to "force" love back? I wonder sometimes if it is as hard to fall back in love with someone as it is to fall out of love with someone you care for deeply?

I would be lying if I said the stress involved with the now 6 month old baby had not take its toll. Of course he was unplanned. This is going to sound really cruel but I just can't get close to him. I have been such an emotional wreck being in-love for the past ten months that it has been hard to do much other than focus on trying to fight off those feelings. Now I am wedged inbetween work where I love someone and home where nearly everything is a source of sadness and frustration.

I was young, early 20's, but at the time I thought that I was becoming a "male-old-maid". I was so lonely and she was my first and only girlfriend. ](*,) ](*,) I was married to her three years later. We both attended the same church, where I met her, she was 18 at the time and 21 when we married. In hindsight I wonder if I ever was in-love with her. The passion wore off after about a month or two. She is very perceptive and knew I was attracted to someone last fall. I guess it showed on my face. I don't know how she could tell. She confronted me. We talked some but she is so sensitive about it that we began just having to correspond through e-mail to keep her from bawling to the point of making converstation impossible. That is why we really don't talk. I guess that answers #3.

About a year and a half ago, a long term subconsious feeling that I was not in love with my wife of 14 years began to become consious. My wife spent the better part of four days a week (Thursday through Monday) with her out-of-town dying grandmother every other week for about three months, taking our two year old with her. At first, I became lonely, but then I began to enjoy the time alone. When my wife's grandmother died, they were back in the house full time (wife and child) and I began to miss my alone time. Then about a month later, we learned that we were having our second child (living proof that it just takes 1 time as our sex life has basically been non-existant for about 7 years). My wife began demanding all kinds of things like a larger house, a new car, etc... I asked her to slow down but she kept it up so I started looking for larger places to stay and for a new car. All of these demands got me to thinking, now consiously, that we never had anything in common. I had reached out at times in the past to find common ground, interests that we could share. I finally gave up when she did not share my view of a dream house I had found. Then, ten months ago, a lady at work began flirting with me and I fell in-love. I have nearly fought off all of those feelings, I hope, cross my fingers. Now I just can't stand to be around my wife. We don't fight but I can't stand to talk to her. We have nothing in common and physically she no longer attracts me. I am left in this limbo, not loving my wife, but fortunately, having fading feelings for this woman at work. Most of the time, I just want to be left alone, away from the comotion and noise of the home. I am wondering now if I ever loved my wife. I think back through the years thinking of the energy I have expended trying to do things that would make her happy and show some interest in me. Now I just don't care and want to move out. Is it possible to fall back in love with your wife when the feelings are gone? We are going to start going to counciling soon, I hope, but I don't see much hope.

I really like the comment, "She is not a candidate for friendship because you have feelings for her." She, for quite a while, seemed like she craved the friendship, but has been backing away from even that in the last two weeks, about the same time I decided to just try and mute my feelings and attempt to be a friend. That is why I called it a Rubber Band relationship. Maybe I scared her with some friendly conversation? Here is how perceptive my wife is. She started breaking into my e-mail about a year ago to see what was wrong with me. It would be another three months at that time before I "fell" for this other woman. I guess even I did not realize that there were problems at the home, although when I look back, my wife and I have neglected each other since around 1997. The problems didn't become extreme until September of last year. The stress of having her away from the home off and on with our 1st child to 'watch' a relative die, finding out she was pregnant again after the death of this relative, then the demands for a new house and a new car due to the expanding family plus the lack of physical contact just sent me over the edge. I don't think there is much chance of that now. It has reached the point where I see the fantasy of a relationship with this other woman as just that. The reality is in stark contrast. In a way, she can really be a jerk. If she ever were attracted, she is not now. I was thinking that she might have been de-mistified in my mind enough to be just a friend. Your comments though are still valid. She scares me as she has been the 'alpha' in this realtionship. I think I love her but don't really like her if that makes sense. I had a good friend say that about a difficult family relationship of mine. I am sure that there are those out there who are scratching their heads saying, "What is this guy's problem? Does he really NEED a friend like this? Why not just find other friends?" Believe me, if she had not started paying attention to me at a time when I was "open to suggestion" I would never have fallen. I also didn't want to hurt her by rejecting her as a friend. She is also very sensitive and self-consious. I think I am on the road to recovery. Maybe in a month or so, I will look back at this last 9 month period and laugh at myself. This is the weirdest 'friendship' I have ever had with anyone.

It takes a really strong person to take the beating that you have and it will take years to repair just some of the damage done, not months, even with counciling. You don't have to get a divorce but you do have justification. Do you believe that you can ever trust him again? I can see that you love him because you are staying with him. Just don't get down on yourself. Never give up on yourself. Show him the strength that HE should have. You have already done this by just staying with him.

An individual who looks really deep inside, reflects, and sees that she/he could have done things differently in a realtionship has the sensitivity to make some real progress in future relationships, or in the restoration of the old relationship. What makes a relationship stronger is when communication occurs about the good and the bad. No relationship can survive long term without this communication. That is not to say that the discussions will always save a relationship, but the discussions will help a healthy relationship become stronger. I wish even some of my friends could realize this in their friendships with me. I like the Hallmark card idea posted earlier. It leaves the door open for your ex-to come back while showing that you have grown through the experience. It also opens you up for closure in the realtionship. If you hear back, he wants to work on the relationship. If you don't then you may need to move on or wait a bit longer. Of course, you need to evaluate the importance of the relationship to you before you send the card and be ready for additional heartache if he does not respond. For example, are you willing/can you change some of the things he mentioned about you? Would these changes be permanent or would they be good only until the relationship was going strong again? He has to make the same decisons about what you don't like about him. Everyone makes mistakes. We grow if we choose to learn from them. You have shown some real growth. Can he do the same? It is never wrong to put your heart on the line for those that you love. It is wrong to be so self-center as to not consider the other side. You have already considered the other side so any way that you go now will not be wrong. You have shown great maturity.

Yep... This would be subconsious right? I can't confront her on that (Harassment you know.) Yes, but her actions affect me. Yep... but I don't want to quit my job/the pants are still zipped. I would like to be her friend... but with the way she is acting that is nearly impossible. She is just two cubes down from me. She has called me on the phone and asked why I am ignoring her and also has stopped by my cube and asked why I am avoiding her, that is when I ignore her (which I have tried three times in the last four months) I finally gave in and decided to "try" and be her friend and then she redraws the line. It is hard when your heart is still tied up to have that line redrawn constantly. Of course she denies that there is any attraction on her side and she is just trying to protect my heart. Stomping on it does not help though! Agreed! Divorce is costly too... I need to figure a way out of the entire mess that manifests itself between my ears for the most part. Any idea as to a cure for being in-love? I am considering that.