GH2001
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I am seeing a therapist. I called the day the attraction began last fall. Interestingly, that was just days before she started flirting. I am old enough to recognize the severity of the affliction just as it begins and thought I was about to go mad! It just seems like this lady keeps moving the boundary line at her liesure, typically when I start becoming her friend again she moves the line behind me. Then when I step back behind the line, she moves it back. Obviously, I would like to just dump the entire relationship, I have tried, but she keeps it alive with wanting to "be friends." My therapist calls her personality Histrionic, like she has some issues too.
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I have been through the ringer over the past 9 months. I fell in love with a lady at work (just two cubes away). She started flirting with me last fall and that is what started it, plus my wife and I have been having problems. She has been having problems with her husband as well for longer. We both have kids. The in-love feeling is not mutual from what I can tell. I have considered quitting my job several times but that is really not an option. Four months ago, I confessed my feelings because I knew that I would not be able to hide them for much longer. So, in the past four months, I have twice tried just ignoring her. The first time she called me on the phone (yes we are just two cubes away) and asked why I was avoiding her. I told her I just hurt. The second time, she came to my cube and asked why I was ignorning her. I am as much to blame as I asked her to just be herself when she asked what she could do to help. So, ignoring her did not work so I have stopped trying that. For a while, I would literally just say Hi in the morning as I passed her cube and bye as I left in the evening. She seemed to want to start communicating and would smile as she passed my cube or stop to talk business, which always drifted into a discussion about something regarding her children. She also caught me in the breakroom a few weeks ago and asked how I had been. Now however, I am trying to be just her friend, suggesting that she might like listening to this CD two weeks ago, or e-mailing her with some information about purcahsing a musical instrument for her daughter, (that discussion/e-mail was yesterday and she started it as I was talking business). Then I noticed yesterday she starts backing away from even the friendship. I know that nothing can happen so I am trying to be satisfied with just being her friend. Maybe I am coming on too strong? We are both in our early to mid 40's if that helps. We have had long discussions about our feelings, sometimes up to an hour at a time. I would like to continue the friendship but it seems like she keeps moving the boundary line. Today, it was bad enough that when she asked for some assistance on a project, I helped her and just went back to my cube. I get frustrated with a friendship that means a lot to me that seems on-again and off-again. I have vowed to myself to quit walking on eggshells and just be a friend. Now it appears that she is backing away from even the friendship. I really wish I could stop being in-love with her and just move on with being her friend. I know it just takes time.
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I would say this... what is wrong with falling "out of love?" You are just 20. Don't marry someone you think you can live with, marry someone you think you cannot live without.
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It is easy for elder people, I am in my 40's, to say "You are still young" What is not said is that in reality we are all still young and need love for our entire lives. I don't feel that much different than I did when I was 18. However, getting tied down can eliminate the fun if it is not the right person. I am struggling with that right now. That happens to a lot of people. I also understand the loneliness you feel. It is important to realize that at 19, at 29, and at 39 you will still be developing relationship skills and maturing. The process NEVER stops. I learned this in my 30's when it was too late and I had been married for about 4 years. I learned just recently that the loneliness you are feeling might be eased by learning to love yourself first. This is done by investing in yourself. Discover the person that you are and the path you will take in life. Take great joy in traveling, walking, reading and basically experiencing the joys of life. Go to museums, art galleries, learn what life has to offer before you get real serious with someone. That way, you will have something real to share with your life's love beyond the club experience. Romance and passion are fleeting, lasting only about 3 years after you are married. Once the passion is gone, you will need to love the other person's mind and experience. You will need to be a complete dynamic person that can stimulate the mind of the man you marry. Physical attraction is important, but there needs to be something in the package. Examine what motivates your friends and family. Turn outward. Seek out the meaning of life. READ extensively about LOVE, the chemistry of love, what it does to you mentally AND physically above the neck line BEFORE you fall in love. It is probably the most misunderstood subject for all ages. Unfortunately it is mysterious because we are educated about most everything in life except that which can trip us up for the rest of our lives, falling in love, being in love, marriage, and having children. Education is vitally important. I wish I had read Helen Fisher's book ""The Anatomy of Love, a natural history of Monogamy, Adultery, and Divorce" before getting into a serious relationship. It explains the physical process that goes on in the brain when you fall in love and when you settle down into a loving state. There is a big difference even in the brain chemistry between Attraction and Attachment. I promise you will find some answers there that are surprising. In Summary... 1) Discover who you are and determine at what point you are a complete person. 2) Don't look for love. It will find you as you expereince life. 3) Marry not someone that you feel you can live with, Marry someone you believe you cannot live without. I hope this helps and does not sound like it came from an old codger.
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Thanks but I remember I am coming out of an emotionally wrenching seven months myself. Hopefully I will not relapse. I want to share some of what I have learned with everyone else.
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Things are going much better now. After seven months of trying to find someone who REALLY understands, this forum might just be doing the trick. Physical exercise is also helping. For those of you who need something to read try Helen Fisher's book The Anatomy of Love. Do a search on e-Bay for a used copy. I found one today for about $10 as reference for another member. Sometimes it is comforting to know just why you are having the feelings at an elementary level to depersonalize the feelings. Remember this from Fisher's book... You cannot discuss love without discussing brain chemistry... There are three Phases to Love Phase I (In-Love) (other terms infatuation, Romantic Love, a Crush) where the overriding chemical soaking your brain is a natural amphetamine Phenylethylamine. The longing desparate feelings come from this chemical. You get into a fog that clouds your judgement when under the influence of this drug. It is intense. The average duration of this phase is 18 to 36 months. It also leads to Phase II in relationships that grow. Phase II (Love) A different chemical takes over as you become resistant to Phenylethylamine and its levels decrease. Endorphins (also interestingly released in heavy physical exercise) give you a feeling of well being and comfort. After you have been with someone for a certain amount of time these comfortable feelings take over. Phase III (falling out of Love) This occurs when something happens to the love relationship of Phase II. Maybe the endorphins just die out due to the partners growing apart by not cultivating the relationship. Marriage and relationships require maintenance. This is a very dangerous state as one is left open like a sitting duck to Phase I again. For some this might be a cycle, especially if you go into relationships lightly. I have a new creedo. On Relationships, enter one not if you think you can live with the person, make certain it is someone who you feel you cannot live without. I am still working on this. I am not out of the woods yet, but the help I have received here is more helpful than the help I have received from well intentioned friends and therapists over the past year.
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I am having a very similar problem at work right now, but did not take the "next step." That is not judging you, but it is to say that I understand your deep feelings for this woman. The woman on the other side of my situation is unwilling and I thank God for that because I would not have been strong enough to resist. Flirtatous women can really do a guy in. The object of your affection sounds like a bit more than a flirt though if she took it to the next step with you. You have to answer this question yourself and I know it will hurt like HELL, "Can you see a situation where she would sleep with the phone owner?" Would you worry about her cheating on you if you left your wife and married her? You might be able to use that as leverage to de-mystify her a few notches or you might answer no to each of these questions. You obviously know her better than any of us. Try your best to think logically about the situation with a crystal ball approach. Thoughts of passion can override reality in nearly every case. Try and maintain distance. You took the first step by leaving your job and that is a BIG step. Try and honor your wife (and I can understand how the feelings fade after the honeymoon is over to nothing). You probably were "In-Love" with your wife at one time, spent years with her and "Loved" her after the honeymoon was over. Now the excitement of the "In-Love" chemicals in your brain, generated by the object of your affection, are overriding the "Love" chemicals in your brain for your wife. In fact, you may no longer love your wife. Know that the feelings you are having are as a result of brain chemicals that control love. You may be addicted to the feeling of being In-Love, but like with any drug, you will eventually develop a resistance. (On average 18 to 36 months) It can however go on for longer and it takes real emotional and physcial strength to overcome. My Cup of Coffee advice, keep your distance if you love your wife. Consider what life would really be like with the object of your affection if the bedroom became stale.
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There are several important points here. This forum is not about judging. It is about providing help. In Helen Fisher's book The Anatomy of Love there are two Phases to love Phase I (Attraction, basically "In-Love" "The Agony and the Ecstasy") that involves the brain chemical PEA, a natural amphetamine. You get addicted to this chemical and it fogs your judgement. If the relationship survives on AVERAGE the first 18 to 36 months it transistions to Phase II (Attachment). Different brain chemicals take over at that point, endorphins, that bring on a feeling of comfort with your partner. I don't see any comfort in this relationship. Do you feel you are still in Phase I? I see turmoil so I don't think you are in Phase II and I wonder if you can reach Phase II. That is a question that you would have to answer yourself. This one concerns me the most. You have provided comfort for him and he has cheated on you (us). Do you think he is looking for love or for sympathy? He sounds like he might be a relationship addict. Does that sound right? I am pretty sure that he is at a minimum he is very unstable. I believe that successful relationships involve two parties getting together that are complete, independent, individuals. Do you consider him a complete well adjusted individual? I don't know that you could transition to a Phase II Love until he gets his life in order. Be careful and I wish you the best in your decision
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Thanks, I will keep posting with updates.
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The ladder theory is really Pop psychology, kind of like a joke with a moral. This is an unusual relationship for me for a couple of reasons. 1) She wants to be my friend while most women probably laugh behind my back and 2) The physical attraction, while there for me, is not predominant.
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It is not pretty, and I am sure there are exceptions but it is an interesting analysis of the difference between men and women and how they view male-female relationships. Again; however, I guess I should comment again that I really believe it is more than physical in my brain. We started out as friends but it escalated in my mind with some of her flirting. link removed
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Amen to that comment. It is the Venus and Mars thing again, I will admit it. She has expressed wanting to go back to the old way of interacting. I would too. I guess time will tell if I can. Have you heard of the ladder theory?
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Yeah, that is what makes the situation so difficult. I might have gone from co-worker for about a year to in-love while she has remained steady at platonic. One thing I did not mention is that I am not used to any woman being interested in being my friend. I did not have much of a dating life and women typically avoided me.
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I guess it also goes back to the age old question, "Are platonic relationships possible?"
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No, she is not looking at leaving her husband. I agree that it is a moot point; however, she seems hurt when I ignore her. Once she called me on the phone and asked why I was ignoring her and a second time she stopped by my cube and asked why I was avoiding her. Of course it is difficult in my state of mind to just say, "take a hike." How does one, and is it possible, to tone down feelings for another to just the friendship level I guess is what I am asking? Are there any counteragents to PEA?
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Measuring how bad my marriage is I am thinking will require some clear thought. Right now I am under the influence of the love chemical in the brain phenylethylamine (PEA), hence I know my thinking is not clear. However, a respected friend of mine emphatically stated that I am in-love with this woman because of how the relationship developed and other comments that I have made that don't depend upon the physical. I have worked with her for about two years now but the attraction did not build until about a year ago. Another co-worker, who had called it infatuation for months has now admitted that he thinks I am in love. I am fully aware of the pain a divorce would cause. Because this other woman seems to be uninterested, I guess I really don't have a problem outside of the heartbreak I feel at home and at work. It is just the longing and pineing to be in a relationship with her that is killing me and will likely kill me for the next year or two until my brain develops a resistance to the PEA. I was one of those who judged people very harshly in situations like this. Now I can see why the divorce rate is so high and why so many people live miserable lives.
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I am lucky in a way because I am almost certain that she is not attracted. I have noticed on some other threads here that women are nearly impossible to read (body language and all). I think one of the earlier posters had it right when he said that she is just looking for attention. What does everyone make of the hurt feelings she felt when I stopped talking to her? The tough part about working on my relationship at home is that I probably should have started about a year ago before this attraction started. Now I have to burn this one out before I can move on to work on my relationship at home. I had myself brainwashed for many years that our relationship was untouchable. The stress and longing for this woman has caused me to retreat into my own world between the ears at home.
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I don't think the relationship is "exactly" the same as she is not interested in anything but friendship and has told me as much (not that I asked her to do anything mind you.) I have read Helen Fisher's book on the Anatomy of Love, the history of Monogomy, Adultery, and Divorce. It is really an eye opener. It speaks of the average timeframe of the Attraction phase of love as being about 18 to 36 months. I am hoping the brain chemistry that controls this attraction will desensitize my feelings after that amount of time. I will check the link removed site and see if there is any advice there as well. Thanks for the help.
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I am pretty sure it is love. I know it is not lust because I don't think about that aspect much at all. We are a small team of five persons and work in an office of about 30. The business is changing and I am moving to another sub team but I am still just a couple of cubes away and there is a chance that I will continue to work with her but not as much.
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What is the best way to break off a friendship when you work so closely together? Maybe find a new job? My "Relationship Quotient" is pretty low. I tried setting up rules "to just talk shop" but neither of us were really good at adhering to that. I agree that she is looking for attention.
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I have been in love with a woman at work for the last ten months. I am married (15 years) with two kids and she is married (22 years) with two kids. I have never been more in love with a woman in my life and obviously we cannot do anything about this due to our home situations. Her marriage is horrible and mine is of course taking a heavy beating. I don't love my wife anymore. The woman at work is mildly flirtatious with those who she is very close to at work and this is what got me going (my marriage has been becoming increasingly frustrating for the past seven years and this has just made it worse as I find myself just wanting to get away from my wife). I have expressed my feelings to the woman at work, mainly to warn her about my heart. After this she asked what had she had done to attract me to her and I told her. This was in January. Before I confessed my feelings, she was asking me to go over with her to grab some take-out lunch at a local café and we would talk seemingly for hours every week. The conversations were those I had always dreamed about, when I was younger, that I would have with my future wife. I went a couple of weeks without talking or even looking at her to try and get over her. This really made her feel bad. She has been ultra-careful about "not leading me on" since I told her what she did to make me fall in love. For example she has gone back to going to the café alone. I have never asked her to do anything and she would be unwilling to do anything anyway even if I did ask. I will be changing departments soon and will not be working directly with her soon. This is breaking my heart even more, even though we are just a couple of cubes away. I don't know how to handle this relationship that is love (trying to tone it down to just friendship) for me and friendship for her. I have tried to break it off a couple of times and she seems unwilling almost forcing me to be her friend. It always seems to be on her terms though.