pianoguy

FoxLocke, the short answer to your question is, "We don't know." As a scientifically minded homosexual this is something I have pondered quite a bit. It would seem sensible to think that homosexuality should be bred out of a population, after all, homosexuals do not reproduce, thereforeeee the trait should not appear in succeeding generations. The long answer: there has been some research on this but not nearly enough. The 3 theories I know are the male aggression theory, the saboteur (sp.?) gene theory, and the caretaker theory. Before I explain these, two things: 1) As a general rule the more highly evolved species, the more variety of sexual behavior and modes of sexual expression. Bugs are pretty indescriminate about who/when/where they have sex, some species of birds mate for life, humans have sexual orientation. 2) Lesbianism is a uniquely human trait and seems to occur only at a very late stage in evolution. (A philosopher could say this is the highest form of love, perhaps?) There is almost no research on lesbianism, which is a crying shame. The three theories I mentioned above deal with male homosexuality. The first theory, the male aggression theory as I call it, says that homosexuality developed as a means to lessen aggression between the males of a population. Obviously a more harmonious male population means a healthier community in general since the males spend less time killing each other and more time defending the community from predators. An extreme form of male-bonding, if you would. The second theory, the saboteur gene theory, is the one I understand the least. Apparently males have a genetic weakness on the XY chromosome whereby they will transmit a trait to their male offspring even though the trait can be very harmful to the success of the species. I remember reading about an experiment on a community of flies where some trait caused nearly the entire male community to go extinct. The theory is that a gene is interested in perpetuating itself, not the species. Homosexuality could be such a trait. The third theory, the caretaker theory, is my personal favorite. It states that homosexuals are involved in the raising of nephews and nieces, enabling mom and dad more time to hunt and gather for the rest of the community. This behavior has been observed in different species of animals and has contributed greatly to the survival of the community. I know you said you didn't want a philosophical discussion, but you of course raise the issue "Why am I here." I know a ton of straight people that feel a large part of their existence fulfilled when they reproduce, and it seems to be a basic need as a species. Perhaps homosexual's job is to show straight people purposes in life beyond reproduction- I don't think it is a freak coincidence that there is a very high number of homosexuals in various artistic fields.

ocrob, that's an interesting question you raise. First off, do bear in mind that a lot of gay people don't become more feminine when they come out (me) but some do. I have a few theories why: 1) Coming out is an act of rebellion and defiance against society, and one way to rebell more is to be as gay (feminine) as possible. Individuals who do this are generally angry, promiscious, immature, and unhappy. I have a friend like this. 2) Marking. If I walk down the street and see a painfully thin man with a pink shirt, limp wrists and a lisp, I am going to assume he's gay, and I'll probably be right. He will get hit on much more than someone like me, a sturdy, reasonably cute guy who dresses like a music nerd. Hence I am very isolated and bitterly unhappy. 3) Simply hanging out with feminine individuals means you will probably pick up some of their qualities, if only out of habit or a desire to blend in. In the case of your friend I'd say it's #3, maybe #2. Do you think that makes sense?

Concerning your relatives: I understand what you are saying about the "announcement" problem. The first 5 or 6 people I told I used the announcment method, I took them aside to a quiet place and told them very gravely that I was gay, as though I were explaining that I had been diagnosed with cancer or something. This had two effects: 1) Awkwardness during and after the conversation, with intense closeness following about a week after 2) An airtight ship. My taking people aside individually impressed on them the gravity of the situation and guaranteed that they would tell no one, keeping my secret absolutely safe. After I while I got tired of telling so many people individually, so I became more cavalier about the whole thing. I would make jokes like the following: Me: I thought Catwoman was an okay movie, despite what the critics said. Friend: Was that because it had an attractive scantily clad woman throughout the film? Me: I can assure you that had no impact on me whatsoever. My friend figured it out from this dialogue. Because the friend thought I didn't care who knew she began discussing it with everyone, which was exactly what I wanted and saved me a lot of grief. So, there are ways around the announcement method (although with relatives, it may be the best choice). Is it entirely necessary that you tell you relatives? There's lots of people in my life that I'm close to who have no idea, I just feel no need to tell them. None of my extended family knows, and that's cool with me.

If your Mom and you are so close don't be surprised if your mom already knows about your orientation. Moms have magical powers which are granted to them after they birth you. Here's how I came out to my Mom: Mom: Are there any girls at college you're interested in? Me: No. Mom: None? Me: None... do you want to know why? Mom: Oh, I already know. Me: What? Mom: You're homosexual. Come now, I'm your mother, I know these things. Me: ... Mom: You have a crush on Peter, don't you? Me: How did you know... I then went and told my Dad- Me: Apparently you and Mom both know I'm gay. Dad: Oh, of course. Bear in mind that I am extremely straight-acting and dressing (more so than my straight brother in fact) and no one besides my parents and brother has figured this out before I told them. I guess what I would advise is: 1) Wait for the right moment, but don't be afraid to create a moment if one doesn't arise 2) Decide why it is you're doing this. If you don't have a clear answer you may wish to reflect more before proceeding. 3) Have you told any of your friends? I actually told a few of my friends first. As you tell more people it gets easier and easier. Now I can just mention it in passing, and have done so several times. Again, I must emphasize that familial love trumphs religion/ethical values almost every time. You are your Mom's son. Even most diehard evangelical families are reconciled to their gay offspring eventually. It may potentially cause awkwardness between you, but it will pass. Also- this is a minor detail but important, their are multiple ways of saying that you're gay without actually using those words, if that's the trouble. The first few people I told I used different wording each time: "I'm gay." "I'm homosexual." "I'm like Mr. Wilkins [a gay man we both knew]." "I don't fall in love with girls. I fall in love with boys." "I'm not straight." "I have a special condition that affects my love life [not recommended]." "You probably know this about me already." "I have a crush on Peter." "I'm not in love with a girl, it's a guy." Best of luck.

You're straight. Do you love your wife in a romantic way? That should answer your question. This reminds me alot of the Seinfeld episode where George was afraid to get a massage from a male masessuse (sp?) for the same reason. You may want to consider discussing this with a counselor, should help you feel better and more focused, especially if this is ruining your life. Life is too short, help yourself out a bit and let someone reassure you.

Is that really true? I've had this problem more times than I care to admit, crushing on my straight best friends. I find talking helps a tremendous amount, but the problem eventually comes back and requires more talking. Also, is it ever a good idea to discuss this with the crushee? I've had a tremendous crush on one of my straight best friends for close to two years, this adorable guy with furry black hair and bright eyes.... sigh.... anyways... uh, I can't help but think that to tell him about it would only cause major awkwardness between us. I think he probably senses my feelings, he's very intuitive and I've told him I'm gay, and he doesn't mind gay people at all, but I don't see how a discussion would lead to anything but awkwardness. Discussion isn't going to turn him gay. I'm curious to see what you guys think, because to be quite honest I've felt driven to tell him for some time. My heart tells me to, but my brain is holding me back, and my experience thus far has taught me that the heart is a terrible judge of such situations.

I think you're handling this whole situation extremely well. I wouldn't do the ultimatum thing yet. Also- concerning trying to tell whether he is telling the truth- use your intuition. NOT your heart (subtle but important difference). Most people can intuit how truthful others are being in a one-on-one conversation. Best of luck, and keep us posted.

This thread is a continuation, and hopefully completion of a discussion that has been going on in the thread "What does this make me?" by Silverthreads. I was reluctant to start a new thread as both sides had basically finished saying what they had meant to say, but the original topic of Silverthreads thread was being hijacked so I think this is the best solution. I also think this will be a fruitless discussion which will quickly degenerate into fighting, but I feel compelled clear up as many myths as I can. My basic argument is: The scientific origins of homosexuality are in fact not open to debate as many think, but have pretty clearly been established as being biological in origin. I quoted numerous reliable scientific sources, the most important of which was the American Psychological Association: To my astonishment and amusement, people actually tried to attack the credibility of my sources, which to me indicates that they were unable to attack the arguments themselves. In the following post I defended the credibility of my quotes, which frankly I did not have to do but did anyways. Again, I don't expect this thread to generate much discussion, and indeed I would be happy if it didn't, but I am doing this out of respect to Silverthreads. From: What does this make me? by Silverthreads I freely admit that I do not know what his Phd is in, but Meyers is one of the most respected psychologists in the country. His textbook entitled "Psychology" is one of the most widely respected in the field and is in use by colleges and highschools accross the country. His credentials are flawless and his standing in the scientific community is unassailable. To suggest otherwise is ignorant and insulting. I respectfully disagree. What other sources would you consult? Unless you have some pretty impressive credentials you have absolutely no standing in which to attack the APA. To suggest that that APA is opinionated is laughable and represents wishful thinking on your part. Members of the APA are subjected to extensive peer-to-peer criticism, their findings must be backed by exhaustive experimental data. If you have also performed these experiments, then please send me your data and I would be willing to reconsider my above statement. You also mentioned that there isn't data on the subject of the brain difference between gay and straight people , but you are again wrong. "Simon LeVay discovered one such structure while studying sections of the hypothalamus taken from deceased hetereosexual and homosexual people. For nine months he peered through his microscope at a cell cluster known to be involved in sexuality. His discovery: the cell cluster was reliably smaller in homosexual men. Given that everything psychological is also biological (we are emobided beings) it should not surprise us that brains differ with sexual orientation." From David Meyers book "Several recent studies, demonstrate that there are notable differences between the physiolgy of a heterosexual male and a homosexual male. These differences are primarily noted in the brain, inner ear and sense." -from Wikipedia "Sexual differentiation relevant to sexual orientation occurs in hypothalamic areas of the brain (in 1987 the preoptic anterior nucleus, ventromedial nucleus, and anterior nucleus were known)" - from a study by Ellis and Ames Also from that study- "To summarize the human evidence ... sexual orientation is mainly the result of neurological factors that are largely determined prenatally, even though they do not fully manifest themselves until adolescence or adulthood" "LeVay & Hamer summarize the evidence for a neurological basis of sexual orientation: histological investigation of adult human brains shows the INAH3 cell group (third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus in the medial preoptic region of the hypothalamus) to be approximately three times larger in men than women and that gay men had INAH3 cell groups no larger than women" - from the study by LeVay and Hamer I could go on but you get the point. This is what respected science says about the matter, end of story. Now, I do need to clarify two things: Science is never so arrogant to claim that it has PROVEN something. It only presents theories that describe the way our world works to the best of our reasoning. For example, the heliocentric theory says that the earth orbits around the sun. It can't actually be PROVEN (maybe it's just an error in our perceptions! Maybe the scientific community is biased! Maybe the whole thing is an elaborate prank by God as the Pope told Galileo!) but it is the best explanation and everyone accepts it. But it wasn't this way in the beginning, only scientists accepted it at first, then the common people, then the church. This is the same thing with research on homosexuality or evolution. All respectable scientists accept these theories, and eventually ordinary people and the church will also. It is inevitable. The second thing is that science cannot make judgments about morality. Is it moral for the earth to go around the sun? Is it okay to steal money from my little brother to buy food? Science will never be able tell us. Likewise, even though science is close to demonstrating that sexual orientation is biological, it will not be able to tell us whether it is right or wrong.

Having reread this thread I've realized that the whole discussion, while important, is way off-topic. Out of respect to the original poster I'm starting a new thread entitled "Homosexuality and science." Any wishing to continue the discussion can do so over there. I hope this is a good solution for everyone. Apologies, pianoguy

I freely admit that I do not know what his Phd is in, but Meyers is one of the most respected psychologists in the country. His textbook entitled "Psychology" is one of the most widely respected in the field and is in use by colleges and highschools accross the country. His credentials are flawless and his standing in the scientific community is unassailable. To suggest otherwise is ignorant and insulting. I respectfully disagree. What other sources would you consult? Unless you have some pretty impressive credentials you have absolutely no standing in which to attack the APA. To suggest that that APA is opinionated is laughable and represents wishful thinking on your part. Members of the APA are subjected to extensive peer-to-peer criticism, their findings must be backed by exhaustive experimental data. If you have also performed these experiments, then please send me your data and I would be willing to reconsider my above statement. You also mentioned that there isn't data on the subject of the brain difference between gay and straight people , but you are again wrong. "Simon LeVay discovered one such structure while studying sections of the hypothalamus taken from deceased hetereosexual and homosexual people. For nine months he peered through his microscope at a cell cluster known to be involved in sexuality. His discovery: the cell cluster was reliably smaller in homosexual men. Given that everything psychological is also biological (we are emobided beings) it should not surprise us that brains differ with sexual orientation." From David Meyers book "Several recent studies, demonstrate that there are notable differences between the physiolgy of a heterosexual male and a homosexual male. These differences are primarily noted in the brain, inner ear and sense." -from Wikipedia "Sexual differentiation relevant to sexual orientation occurs in hypothalamic areas of the brain (in 1987 the preoptic anterior nucleus, ventromedial nucleus, and anterior nucleus were known)" - from a study by Ellis and Ames Also from that study- "To summarize the human evidence ... sexual orientation is mainly the result of neurological factors that are largely determined prenatally, even though they do not fully manifest themselves until adolescence or adulthood" "LeVay & Hamer summarize the evidence for a neurological basis of sexual orientation: histological investigation of adult human brains shows the INAH3 cell group (third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus in the medial preoptic region of the hypothalamus) to be approximately three times larger in men than women and that gay men had INAH3 cell groups no larger than women" - from the study by LeVay and Hamer I could go on but you get the point. This is what respected science says about the matter, end of story. Now, I do need to clarify two things: Science is never so arrogant to claim that it has PROVEN something. It only presents theories that describe the way our world works to the best of our reasoning. For example, the heliocentric theory says that the earth orbits around the sun. It can't actually be PROVEN (maybe it's just an error in our perceptions! Maybe the scientific community is biased! Maybe the whole thing is an elaborate prank by God as the Pope told Galileo!) but it is the best explanation and everyone accepts it. But it wasn't this way in the beginning, only scientists accepted it at first, then the common people, then the church. This is the same thing with research on homosexuality or evolution. All respectable scientists accept these theories, and eventually ordinary people and the church will also. It is inevitable. The second thing is that science cannot make judgments about morality. Is it moral for the earth to go around the sun? Is it okay to steal money from my little brother to buy food? Science will never be able tell us. Likewise, even though science is close to demonstrating that sexual orientation is biological, it will not be able to tell us whether it is right or wrong.

I feel pretty strongly that this guy is straight. He hasn't done anything that wouldn't normally happen in social interaction. I would suggest getting to know him a little, but be careful with your heart. Also, be careful, some straight guys don't react well to this kind of thing. Good luck.

All I ask is that people make an effort to understand my point of view. When people do not attempt to understand people different from themselves, I cannot respect those people. One of our highest calls as human beings is to empathize with our fellow man. I intended no such thing, and I apologize if it was interpreted that way. You made a false statement about AIDS and I corrected it, mainly for the benefit of those who might be perusing this forum and might receive false information about STD's. If this is true then you would stop attacking me, clearly you do wish to argue about this. All scientific evidence indicates that sexual orientation is not a chosen orientation (I also find the term "gay lifestyle" quite ignorant but we won't go into that now, it is a common error). This has also been my personal experience as a gay person. From David Meyers, Ph. D. "Accumulating evidence points to brain differences and prenatal hormonal influences as helping to explain sexual orientation. Studies have also found that hetereosexual and homosexual individuals vary in other ways unlikely to have been influenced by upbringing or choice, including fingerprint patterns and spatial abilities." From Charlotte Patterson, Ph.D., of the APA: "The decision to remove homosexual orientation from the list of mental disorders reflects the results of extensive research, conducted over three decades, showing that homosexual orientation is not a psychological maladjustment The social and other circumstances in which lesbians and gay men live, including exposure to widespread prejudice and discrimination, often cause acute distress; but there is no reliable evidence that homosexual orientation per se impairs psychological functioning." From the American Psychological Association: "The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals. Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant accross cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments."

Don't delude yourself. AIDS has long ago ceased to be primarily transmitted through gay sex, the primary method of transmission nowadays is through straight people. It is normal for some people. For whatever reason there seem to be a fair amount of men and women out there who are perfectly straight but sometimes fantasize same-sex activity. This is more common among teenagers and tends to wear off as people age and become more comfortable with their sexuality. I find the fact that you put "men" in quotes very offensive. Gay men are just as much men as straight people are, I can assure you. Your description of "categories" of gay makes no sense. Just as you wouldn't attempt to categorize straight people. What everyone is missing in this discussion is that what being gay comes down to is not sex, but love. Gay people fall in love with people of the same sex and wish to form romantic, sexual relationships with them. Straight people fall in love with people of the opposite sex and wish to form romantic, sexual relationships with them. It's really that simple. Sometimes, straight people will LUST (not love- important distinction) after people of the same sex, and gay people will LUST after people of the opposite sex, but this is little more than a passing fancy and is not love. I (a gay man) have never experienced lust for a woman, but this type of thing seems increasingly common. Honestly, the matter really isn't that complicated, people.

What you're overlooking is that as you fall in love with somebody, they become more physically beautiful to you. I don't think it's shallow to want to be physically attracted to your lover. And there are some wonderful people out there whom I couldn't date just because they are freaking ugly (sorry). But keep an open mind- you never know who might end up becoming more and more beautiful as you date them. And beauty is fleeting- we're all destined to be ugly eventually. I share your problem in that I'm not really attracted to other races. I don't think this is wrong. I think your list is a little too specific. It's okay to have a dream guy, but be prepared to change at a moments notice. My list: either tall or short, but if he's alot taller than me I prefer he be skinny, any kind of hair, preferably blue or green eyes, at least not black-eyed (like mine- too scary), a pleasant speaking voice, not too overweight. My personality list is a lot more specific and this is the stuff I'm really looking for: an extremely sharp mind and love for learning, affectionate, witty, cuddly and sweet, optimistic, liberal politics, an appreciation for classical music (or at least pretend to be interested in my concerts), imaginative, open minded. I have all these qualities so I don't think it's too much to ask from someone else. Something to compare to- food for thought.

Can I ask why this is a concern of yours? I think you just answered your own question here.

Wow- your situation is exactly like mine.... My post "Help! I need a boyfriend" says almost the same thing... I guess if I could give advice, which I'm not really in the position to do, it would be: make liberal straight friends as much as possible until that special someone comes along. I think you'd be really shocked about how many of your friends would stay with you if you told them you're gay. I also live in in an EXTREMELY conservative area where homosexuality is frowned upon, and almost all of my friends are cool with my orientation. As for the rest, screw them. What kind of friendship is that anyways. It's good that you told your mom, and I'm sure that there's others out there who would support you too. You'd be surprised. I get so depressed when I see straight couples too- I'd like to say that I'm happy for them, and part of me is, but it's mostly just jealousy. I worked at an amusement park last summer, and it was hellish... so many straight people. There's just too f***ing many straight people. I know what you mean about the gay culture thing too. I'm not excessively masculine, but you can't tell I'm gay by the way I dress or act. I don't wear pink or walk around with limp wrists or whatnot. I am drawn to guys that have feelings and are sensitive, but there's plenty of straight guys like that, I'm finding out. I have this terrible habit of falling in love with my straight friends... right now one of my best music friends.... has this beautiful furry dark brown thick hair, and weird olive eyes, and the most beautiful smile and voice... we have so much in common...I think he might know but doesn't know what to do, he's straight but he likes me as a friend and doesn't want to push me away...it's killing me. This is I think the third time this has happened in the past two years. so yeah... life sucks. It's got to get better at some point, I'm assuming. Anyways- you mentioned that you're debating about college- obviously I know nothing about your situation, but I strongly recommend going if at all possible. Make sure you select a gay-friendly college- I know it sounds silly, but it is SO important. Don't make my mistake and assume it won't affect you personally if you go to a Christian college. Pick somewhere liberal, with other people you can meet. What we should really do is get all the people on this board together so we can date... these are the type of people I'm looking for.

I don't think staying behind after class is too obvious. Maybe you could set something on fire in the last few minutes of class and stay behind to put it out. That would also give you the chance to call on her for help and compliment her amazing skills at putting out fires. I know I would be flattered. You mentioned turning the conversation from school to personal is difficult. It's not really. I'm not much of a conversationalist, (during the summer I accidentally went two days without speaking a word before I even noticed) but it's not all that hard. Our personal lives are connected to our school and our work. I'll bet if you just start talking the conversation will wend its way that way without you even noticing. You said boys in the class are checking you out. If you're a lesbian, I don't see why she should care (assuming she is also, which is still a big jump at this point). If you're bi, then you've got something to fall back on. Good luck!

Thanks for all the comforting words guys. At the risk of sounding whiny, there is something else I need to address. A lot of people have said something to the effect, "If you get your life right you'll meet someone." Or "Just be patient, someone will turn up." I have to ask, why? How can I be assured that something will happen eventually? I can't. I don't believe in God or Fate or some blind force pushing folks together. Two of my gay music professors are 58 and 64 respectively and have never met that "someone" and will probably go to their graves without meeting someone. Many of the great composers, my heroes, went to their graves alone despite having VERY high self-confidence, Brahms, Beethoven, Schubert, etc. etc. I can only conclude that when that special "someone" comes (like for my parents) it is nothing more than blind luck. As a gay person, I have a much lower chance of being lucky than a straight person since my population base is much smaller. You seen then, why the situation agitates me- I don't wish to be alone and the only way I can foresee to prevent this is by actively DOING something, only I'm not sure what. I trust you. In fact, I also have 4 or 5 women after me right now. A couple of them know I'm gay and are still chasing me (?). I suppose this is similar to my problem crushing on straight guys. Self-confidence isn't really a problem for me, if anything I have too much confidence and become arrogant and look down on people. I just need to learn how to attract men instead of women. I am encouraged that there seem to be alot of people here in the same boat. I just wish you were real people- as in, actual friends I could talk to, it's just not the same.

This is going to be a long rant so consider yourself forewarned. A little bit of history: I'm 21, virginal homosexual who has never been in a relationship or really gone on a date (I've gone on two internet dates- more later). I realized I was gay when I was 13, I would say I came to terms with my sexuality about 3 years ago or so. I go to a conservative Christian college (long story- don't ask) in a conservative Christian city in a conservative Christian state. Despite this, my family is NOT conservative Christians and have been a huge support. Recently I wrote this on this forum: Indeed, my supressed feelings have completely transformed my personality, turning me from a mild-mannered jolly fellow into a sarcastic, bitter fellow prone to extensive fits of melancholy and lashing out at people for no reason. In some ways this pent up energy has been good, I have poured myself into my studies (piano) and have accomplished things that few at my school ever have. But it is a hollow victory. Unfortunately I am also suspicious of the gay subculture. I do not want to go to a gay bar since I am not really a bar or alcohol person (even straight bars scare me) and I've heard little good come out of those places. I'd like to give two examples: one of what I do not want to become and one of what I do want to become. One of my very few gay acquaintances at my school came out his junior year. Prior to that he even had a girlfriend but fooled no one, this is one of the most stereotypically gay people imaginable. I mean, seriously, this was a queen. Pink Abercrombie shirts, whined like a girl, extremely self-centered, etc. etc. When he did finally come out, he CAME OUT. He announced it on his facebook, he donned various political buttons, he became the president of both secret gay clubs at my school, he got a boyfriend. He goes to the bar at least once or twice a week, has random hookups, burns through men like crazy. While he is much less angry than before he came out, he is an utterly pathetic and miserable individual. His new identiy "supergayboy" is just as much a prison as the closet was before. I can't find any of myself in this individual. I am even-tempered and subtle (some say mysterious but I try not to be). What do I want to be? I love watching the ways the romances begin between my straight friends. A couple of weeks ago we were having a mariokart party in my brother's dorm (he goes here too, we're very close) Two of my friends starting talking, then talking some more, then they left by themselves to talk more privately. Over the next three weeks they spoke often together, finally he asked her to coffee, then on a date. Now they're in love. It was a beautiful thing, and so NATURAL. That's what I feel is so lacking in gay dating, you have to specifically seek out people for dating. I just want to meet someone who makes the back of my neck prickle, who makes me forget who and where I am when I look in their eyes. I am fortunate to have many friends who are very supportive. But I have also crushed on many, many guys most of whom I am very close friends with and who like me very much (platonically). I love people so much, and am overwhelmed at how beautiful the world is and people are. I have experienced lust, fasicination, infatuation, and love (at least once, maybe twice). I hate being in love, it is incredibly painful. I feel utterly alone, yes even despite this site. I feel guilty for feeling this way since I have so many friends. I have been to a few meetings of the GSA in my area, which helps somewhat. Unfortunately the membership is something like 24 girls and 3 guys including me. I also feel strange and alien, most of them are obsessively political (I hate politics) and militant (I just want to coexist peacefully with others). I have tried internet dating. I have been on two excruciatingly boring dates with two perfectly nice guys. The whole process feels strange and unatural to me, but I promised myself I'd keep trying this process. There are two rays of hope: I will be moving on to grad school next August and I have many friends who are on the lookout for guys for me. I am also afraid about going to grad school, since it will take some time to make connections. I fear that I will be losing all my straight friends here at my Christian school and also not making any gay friends at my new school. Sometimes it is hard to get out of the bed in the morning. My morning dialogue goes something like this: "It's a new day! Get out of bed." "This day will be no different." "There will come a different day someday." "That day is long in the future. It isn't coming soon. My bed is warm" "Gosh darn it, get out of bed NOW!" "Very well." Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

FoxLocke, Sorry about that rant, but those things seriously tick me off. As others have said, the most important step is accepting your own sexuality, coming out to yourself as some put it. I've found that it also TREMENDOUSLY helpful to tell close friends. These people have been hugely supportive and honestly I probably would not have survived without them. Incidentally, these are all straight people, largely girls but also some guys. Do you have liberal friends who you could discuss this with? Do you have a mentor or some such figure in your life to confide in? Enotalone is a good start but I think it's better to find real people to talk to. Do you have any links to the gay community or gay friends of either gender to talk to? I love talking with lesbians because there is no sexual tension whatsoever but they are able to emapthize more completely than other people. You mention that you could have had a boyfriend at one point, so I suspect you may know about these things. Part of realizing you're gay means accepting that you will wish to date and form relationships with other guys (specifically, gay guys). This took me a long time to accept for whatever reason. You will need to figure out a method to socialize with other gay men, something that has completely eluded me, leading me to gnaw my own knuckles off in sexual frustration. You don't want to go there. Concerning your family- you will probably have to tell them eventually but do it when you feel the time is right. Realize that this is a major thing and they may not accept you at first, but THEY WILL. If they love you, which I suspect they do, they will come to terms with your orientation. In either case, they will still love you, and that's what counts. Be heartened, virtually every family of the gay people I know have come to terms with their child's "lifestyle" as they refer to it. Love does seem to conquer all, even religious differences.

Is there some way you can talk with this girl after/during class? Have you held conversation before? Just about regular things. You can segue that into asking her out for coffee. It might be easier (in some ways) than doing it over e-mail. Good luck! Go for it!

I like two guys at the moment. There's two others I find cute but wouldn't necessarily say I "liked" them.

Being gay/bisexual isn't so much about sex. Do you fall in love with guys or girls? That's how you tell. There's no need to be so secretive about your age. None of us know who you are anyways, and we can help you a lot more effectively if you tell us how old you are. It makes a major difference. I suspect you're between 13-16 in which case you're still learning about your sexuality, so don't be in a rush to decide. Concerning Pablo- Do you love him or do you merely want to have sex with him? That's how you tell if you're gay. Be honest with yourself, it's nothing to be embarrased or ashamed of if you merely lust after him. I'm told this kind of thing is pretty common among straight teens.

Hi Goldeye, Congratulations on your girlfriend!!!!! I can tell you're really excited about this, and I hope things go well for the two of you!!! Unfortunately, part of being gay or bi means dealing with this kind of harassement. Ultimately, the only choice you really have is whether to be open about your relationship or to be secretive. Being in an open same-sex relationship is a brave thing to do in highschool, and I applaud you, it's something I didn't have the courage to attempt. These people who yell at you and harass you- well they aren't worth your time to get angry about. You have a girlfriend, that should be all that matters. I know it still hurts, but try not to dwell on it. If your close friends offend you in some way or are disrespectful about your relationship, try to take them aside and reason with them, make it clear what they said that offended you and why. But it sounds like most of your real friends are supportive, which makes you very lucky, so count your blessings.

I suppose it depends on the situation. When it means something like "crappy, disgusting, lame" then it really bothers me- as in "This game is so gay." When it's used to mean something like "That pink shirt is gay" then it doesn't bother me so much, especially if it's one of my friends to whom I'm outed and it's a really witty remark. This expression won't be in the language much longer and is already being weeded out, much as various racial expressions were weeded out of the language after the civil rights movement.