pianoguy

This is most interesting. I have trouble relating because I've never had feelings for girls. Oh, sure, when I was in highschool I thought I should date girls just because everyone else was, and I had incredibly intense and almost magical relationships with some girls, but I have never lusted after girls. I don't know, their bodies just turn me off or something. And I don't really know any straight people that have dabbled in homosexuality for anything more than sexual thrills. Example: I once dated a guy, let's call him Paul. He had a most peculiar relationship with a guy I'll call Jason. Paul and Jason were extremely close friends, were inseperable and went on trips out West together, etc. So they had deep platonic love for each other. Now Paul was also in love with Jason, but Jason was probably not in love with Paul (I say probably because I never met Jason). However, Paul and Jason had sex on a regular basis. This despite the fact that Jason was somewhat homophobic in high school and dated girls. Now, Paul told me he was convinced that Jason was bi, but I think Jason was simply an opportunistic or confused straight person. Certainly it felt good when Paul was giving him a blowjob, and he loved Paul very much as a friend. But I strongly doubt that he had this all-consuming love towards Paul that Paul had toward him. When Paul was pleasuring Jason, he was doing it in an all-consuming fashion, making love silmutaneously to his personality, soul, spirit, and body. Wheras when Jason was pleasuring Paul he was only making love to Paul's body. Perhaps Jason even thought he was bi or was in love with Paul, but surely he was not. Now I don't know what's in Jason's heart but I feel pretty justified in saying this. And if I were Paul I would be seriously pissed, but of course unable to free myself from the situation (Fortunately the love of my life, John, is far too homophobic and doesn't drink alchohol so there is no chance of such confusion.) So this is one of my few encounters with bisexuality, and I suspect some other instances can be explained this way. However, I do believe there are some honestly bisexual people out there and I do find it quite fascinating. I found novaseeker's account extremely interesting. It must be very confusing... I mean, it seems like you would get the hots for everyone... that would suck. I mean, who do you make friends with? I can form incredibly close friendships with girls and straight guys that I am out to, since their is no chance of anything happening beyond friendship. Another thing that confuses me is this idea that we "grow" into our homosexuality. Granted, we all start out thinking we're straight, but that doesn't mean we like girls in the same way that straight boys do, even from a very young age. I often thought I might be in love with a girl, but in retrospect it was just a variant of platonic love. Of course I didn't realize this until later.

I have to admit that bisexuality is somewhat confusing to me, and according to the studies I've read true bisexuality is quite rare- something like 2% of the population. So I'm a little skeptical when I come into this forum and almost everyone says they're bi. I think maybe the reason so many people think they're bisexual is because love, especially romantic love is somewhat confusing and easily confused with lust and platonic love. My theory is this: Romantic love is gender dependent, whereas lust and platonic love are not. I'm not foolish enough to try and define romantic love, but for purposes of discussion let's say it's something like sexual attraction plus very deep platonic love plus magical something. I submit that gay people will only fall romantically for the same gender and straight people will only fall romantically for the other gender, with no crossover except for the very small percentage of bisexual people. Platonic love, or brotherly love, can often feel like romantic love. You become extremely close to the other person, knit your soul to theirs, and in some ways become dependent on them. The difference is that there isn't that spark, that feeling that makes your heart flutter when the beloved passes by. You can have platonic love for anybody regardless of gender. Lust is even more confusing, and I think it gets a bad rap in our society. I don't think lust is bad, it can lead to romantic love, but it is important to distinguish between the two and it can be very difficult. This is something that I have huge problems with myself. With lust we DO get that spark or heart flutter when we are in the presense of the beloved, and we often spend time fantasizing about him/her when he/she is absent. To me the distinguishing factors are- with romantic love we dwell on thoughts of the loved one for weeks, months, maybe even years on end when they are absent, whearas lust is fleeting. Romantic love won't develop until we know the person extremely well as a friend wheras lust can develop and fade instantly. Generally the last person you think of at night is someone you are in love with (if you are in love with somebody). Romantic love is love of the total person but especially their personality. I think lust can cross gender barriers but romantic love does not. I've heard tales of straight people who lust after the same gender and some gay people who lust after people of the opposite gender, but I've never really heard of authentic romantic love crossing these barriers. These of course are just my theories and I'm interested to see what people think of them.

That's great! Go for it, it will be liberating. Suck it up and do it. Good luck!!!!

I really think you should consider getting out of Nebraska. It might be inconvenient now but in the long run it will do much for your happiness. You don't necessarily have to go to California, just somewhere more progressive, maybe out east, or something. I am finishing my last semester at a Christian college in Michigan and I deeply regret that I have wasted so much time here. I have found people who are supportive, and I haven't had to endure hate like you have, but there simply isn't anyone here to date and that just sucks.

Hi nuts, I was in a situation that was a little bit like yours- not exactly, but a little bit. I'm 20, gay (not bi) and have always known I was gay. I'm lucky in that I have a very liberal and supportive family and I have been able to discuss the issue with them openly. However, up until last year I was completely closeted, and no one suspected anything. I had a female friend who I'll call Sharon with whom I was extremely close- she was extremely smart and sweet and I liked her very much, but only as a friend. At some point I became aware that she had a crush on me and I realized that I had no choice but to tell her I was gay. For her sake- it would not have been a problem for me other than the guilt but for her sake I needed to tell her so she could move on. One day I just forced myself to tell her and it was the greatest feeling- a huge burden was lifted. For a few weeks there was some awkwardness between us and we did have a major fight at one point and didn't speak for a week or so. But we eventually made up and I can say that my relationship with Sharon, although purely platonic (no kissing) is the most satisfying relationship I've been in (although I do look forward to a relationship with a guy, a day that won't be coming anytime soon). So- screw yourself up and go tell your friend! It will be a huge burden lifted from you and you will gain someone with whom you can speak completely frankly.

Dau- Thanks for your long post. It sounds like you've been through a lot but it is encouraging to see that you seem like a sturdy person and sure of yourself and your orientation, which is saying alot at your age. Basically, I reiterate what Jinx said (excellent advice) and would add the following: 1. One of the saddest things about human existence is that we are only able to help our friends as much as they want to be helped. You are doing the right thing by being there for him, but if he does not want your help you will not be able to help him. I think in your situation it sounds like your friend IS open to help, which is wonderful, but just be aware that in any given situation there is only so much you can do. 2. Be very careful with your feelings towards your friend. Obviously he is in a very confusing place right now, but even if he is gay a relationship with him would be at the best extremely frustrating and at the worst damaging to you. It is going to be a while before he is ready to be in a relationship and he may need counseling before he reaches that point. I think it might be a good idea to try and go out on a casual date with someone else or at least look around some (the internet is a good source but I don't know how many sites admit minors) so that you don't get too hung up on this guy. It happens SO easily. I've been there, and I'm telling you that it's just not worth it. Also- When you're looking for somewhere to go to college be sure to check out the gay scene at the college. I'm not a very social person, and I picked my college purely because it was the best college academically in my area. Unfortunately it is a Christian college and there are zero dating opportunities. So the end result is I have a magnificent education but am a pretty miserable and cranky person. It's okay, though, I graduate in December and it's off to greener pasture after that. Anyways- don't make the mistake I made. Dau, you are a great and promising guy and you will do well in life!! I wish you the best.

Yeah- I don't see how the two have any connection. I'm gay and into games, but neither has anything to do with the other.

Yeah- sorry Steff but this isn't really definitive proof. I'm gay- when I was younger I was deathly afraid of being outed, and I found that the most effective defense was to talk about gay people as though they didn't include me- I'd say things exactly like James said. I'd also joke gently about gay people and gay mannerisims and so forth. Can I ask what makes you think he's gay? Have you asked him straightforwardly? This is the only sure way to find out.

Becca's absolutely right. It's also very possible that you are straight, it seems fairly common for straight guys to become infatuated with other guys at your age. I think patience is always a good idea- waiting to see what happens to your feelings before acting. Things will become clearer as you get older.

Thanks for all the advice on the penpal and Bob. Bob really is a great friend, and I never snap at him or am sarcastic to him. I would never break off our friendship over something like this, we've been through too much for that. I think maybe someday he will understand my sexuality, but even if he doesn't he will always accept me and I just need to be at peace with that. It still hurts when he says things about it being a sin, but I just need to be calm and say why it's not a sin and accept his decisions on the matter. The reason I can tolerate Bob and not the penpal is because I feel that Bob at least is TRYING- he is respecting my view and trying to see my side of the matter, wheras the penpal is extremely self-absorbed (stop yelling at me!) and doesn't seem to be making any effort to understand where I am coming from. This is why I feel like ditching her. It seems to me that most people won't listen to others, even a few folks in this forum. People basically make up their minds based on emotion, find people who agree with them, and dismiss everyone else. When someone intelligent disagrees with them they put their hands over their ears and pretend they don't exist. Bob and myself at least try to understand other's views, even if we don't agree with them. I was once extremely religious myself (I'm still extremely spiritual- I play the piano after all) so I know where those people are coming from. I just wish others would at least hear me out. That's all I ask.

Please read my posts all the way through before you reply so as to avoid looking stupid. I said you could appeal to Scripture all you wanted, I just wanted verse numbers and chapter numbers so I could look it up in the Bible. Well, that would be great, but I really just wanted you to think about your position more critically and consider other viewpoints. I don't think you've thought this issue through very thoroughly, nor do you realize how much it affects people. Maybe this is because you don't have good reasons for your opinions. We're all entitled to our opinions, but just because we believe something doesn't make it true. It's the reasons that make it true, and logical people base their opinions on the facts, not on emotions as I believe you are doing. Feel free to prove me wrong and submit some reasons. If your opinion is as solid as you believe there must surely be a number of good reasons for it. I think RayKay has effectively demonstrated that the 'it's not natural" argument doesn't hold water.

For the last time- I did not come here to discuss whether homosexuality is a sin or not. However, it has become abundantly clear to me that my thread has become hijacked and this is what people would rather talk about. Very well. thereforeeee, Cichlid Chick, I want you to list all the reasons you think there is something wrong with homosexual acts. If you refer to the Bible, I want verse and chapter numbers. I will demonstrate why your reasons are groundless. Incidentally, I am also Catholic. Weird, huh?

This is a patronizing and insulting attitude. Imagine if I said, "I disagree with the fact that your skin is black, but I love you nevertheless." Your response would be, "Get lost you jerk." This is how I react when people make statements like the one above. Do you realize the implications of what you are saying? The only chance for a homosexual to attain salvation is to remain celibate or at least to fight the sexual urges and repent of them afterwards. So you offer me this choice: I may have sex and go to Hell after I die, or I may be celibate and be in Hell on earth. What a noble thing to do. You would do well to heed the words of Jesus when he says, "They are like the Pharisees, who tie heavy burdens onto the backs of others." You may think whatever you like, but the people who actually study the matter disagree with you. Frankly, I think the fact that I am homosexual and you are not means that you should yield to what I say, since I am the one who actually struggles with these feelings. Nevertheless, I offer you the following citations: American Psychological Association: "Homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and it is not changeable." American Academy of Pediatrics: "Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated [...] it has little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation." American Psychological Association: "The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals." "Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant accross cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments." This is what science has to say about the matter. Again, you are entitled to believe whatever you like, but simply believing something does not make it true.

How weird- I specifically come here asking how NOT to fight with people and I am now getting people spreading more ignorance about homosexuality. Very well. No, this demonstrates that you are bluffing. Homophobia is most characteristic of Western cultures. The most homophobic areas in the world are the areas that are predominantly Christian, Jewish, or Islamic. Many other religions are extremely accepting of homosexuality. Some examples: Native American homosexuals were revered for their peculiar mixture of masculine and feminine qualities and were often medicine men and spiritual leaders. The folk religions of Africa are extremely accepting of homosexuality and consider it common. The ancient Greeks loved homosexuals. It was extremely common for older men to take younger lovers/apprentices. The Spartan army, one of the most effective fighting forces the world has ever seen, encouraged homosexuals to join and placed lovers in the same battalion, so that they would fight out of love for each other. Spartans considered lovers to be their most effective warriors. Buddhism has no problems with homosexuality. I believe Hinduism is the same, although I am not entirely sure. In ancient China men were supposed to marry and have offspring, but so long as they fulfilled their duty to reproduce they could have male lovers on the side. This was fairly common. My point is: in more primitive societies we generally see that people have less of a problem than in Western culture, the opposite of what you said. While we're talking about primitive societies, you probably are aware that there are some species of animals that demonstrate homosexual behavior, such as penguins. In general, homosexual animals are not treated differently by other members of the flock or herd. So it would seem that evolution does not create homophobia as you suppose. This doesn't make sense, as I'm sure you realize. Conservative straight Christians are no more likely to engage in homosexual behavior than liberal straight atheists. Straight people have sex with people of the opposite sex regardless of their politics. Now I ask you this: If what you say is true, how come homosexuals have not died out? It seems to me that if you think that people who accept homosexuals are not likely to produce, than surely you must realize that HOMOSEXUALS are even less likely to produce! And yet this behavior shows little or no tendency of "dying out." Again, this is simply not true. Homophobic attitudes are NOT universal, I have demonstrated this, if you wish I will cite my sources.

Hey no problem! We're all here for you! Good luck, and keep us posted.

I did not come here to discuss whether homosexuality is a sin or not, those who wish to discuss this matter will kindly get lost. Saying things like "The Bible says it is a sin" is extremely misleading. The Bible is an extremely complex document, it is not a list of traffic laws that say what you can and cannot do. At best there is something like 5 references in the Bible to homosexuality, many Biblical scholars have interpreted these verses in different ways. I do not want anyone else in here to say "This is what the Bible says, end of story" I guess this whole "You cannot change people" doesn't hold water with me, because I think people do change. Maybe it would be better to say, "Don't expect people to change," but to simply go about your business with this attitude is self-defeating. If you look at our society- things have changed ENORMOUSLY in the past century alone. We now treat women and black people as being equal with white men, something unthought of in 1900, and I fully expect that in 1 or 2 generations we will treat gay people the same way. Even the churches are coming around. This seems to be good advice. However, I have trouble believing that the attitude of a homophobic person is an inherent part of that person. This is why I don't accept these people, just as I don't accept racist or misogynistic people. What would the world be like today if the black people had just sat down and said, "Oh, Bob, he's always going to hate blacks and women, just like always. We should just accept him for who he is." Yet a mere two generations later the majority of Bobs now believe that black and white people are equal (not all Bobs, but there are persistent idiots out there). Homosexuality is a fundamental part of my phsyiology. Homophobia is not a fundamental physiological trait of people, it is a learned behavior. If you don't believe me you can consult the myriad scientific studies that are out there. So maybe screaming is out of line, but I fail to see how her ignorance of my position on this issue reduces the offensiveness of her statement. If she had known my views she simply would have forwarded her e-mail to others on her list, trying to quash the happiness of gays who desire marriage everywhere. How considerate. At least she didn't raise the issue with me, thereby hurting someone's feelings! Um, why do I need to change? If you are suggesting change my orientation, that's ludicrous and there is scientific evidence that this is impossible. If you mean change my attitudes toward homophobes, well, I simply am not going to respect the viewpoint of someone who thinks it's okay to hate other people for something beyond their control. If you mean stop shouting at people and being less trigger-happy that I can work on.

I just wondered if anyone here had advice on dealing with conservative Christians who think that homosexuality is a sin. I am mostly closeted, and have a number of friends who are somewhat religious. I don't really feel the need to come out to them, but I just wonder how other people deal with this kind of thing. I always feel this need to start fighting with people over the issue and part of me thinks that I should just accept that these people think differently than I do, even if it is an idiotic way of thinking. I'll give one example- I have a penpal who I've corresponded with for 10 years but never actually met. She didn't know I was gay and sent me an e-mail forward in support of the constitutional marriage amendment. Big mistake- I attacked her viciously and came out to her in the process. She wrote back saying I had made her cry, I was unmoved but wrote her back a very reasonable, calm e-mail detailing why I thought it was ridiculous to support such an amendment and ending with a somewhat sappy but very moving description of my first crush and why I cannot stand the idea of something that feels so pure to me being described as a sin. She writes back saying, "Let's just have a truce." I am still quite furious- she didn't say "I thought about your e-mail" or "I can see where you're coming from" just "let's stop talking about this so you will stop yelling at me." What should I do? My brain says I should just calm down and accept her truce but I really just want to tell her to get lost. Another example- my best friend Bob is a great guy. He has a huge heart and brain and is one of the most caring people I know. I'm pretty sure he believes that homosexuality is probably a sin, but he says he doesn't know for sure (at least when I'm talking to him). He has very strange religious views that I'm not entirely comfortable with, a weird mix of Evangelical Christianity (he believes the Bible is literally true) with a very progressive view on science (he believes in evolution) and very conservative views on social issues (he's somewhat sexist). I love spending time with him, he's my friend after all, but I still find that it hurts when we talk about this issue, even though he does not judge me, says he doesn't believe I am going to Hell, thinks it's okay when I crush on his friends, looks for guys to set me up with, etc. And yet- I still can't stand the idea that such a pure feeling for me- that he could think it would be a sin, somehow... Maybe I'm being unreasonable. I know his views have evolved a lot since meeting me, but I just wish he would just accept what I say since I am gay and he is not. Stupid Bible. I'm finding that I have a lot of anger over this issue and in my spare time I've found a new hobby: attacking conservatives. I go to a Christian College (long story- only 1 semester left thank God) so they are not hard to find. In this forum I actually seek out people who are saying gay people are going to Hell and use a cunning mixture of unassailable logic and cruel sarcasm to make them look like the idiots they are. I really enjoy this, I feel like I shouldn't but I do. My wonderful parents say I should just accept that these people are they way they are and avoid the topic. I am improving at this, I'm finding I can sometimes love people despite their religion, but it still annoys me. Thanks for listening to me vent guys. Do others feel this way? How do you deal with this? Any advice on the penpal? I'd really like to hear from some older gay people if possible, but I'd also love to hear from straight people and young people.

Your mom is physically and emotionally abusive. If you wanted, you could live in a foster home, you mentioned the incident with the hairdryer. Make sure you keep seeing your therapist!! Your mom needs therapy also, but you cannot force her to do this. Hopefully she is seeing someone. Try to find supportive friends and adult figures outside the home, such as teachers, uncles, aunts, grandparents, ministers, etc. Surround yourself with positive people, lean on your friends and make sure you find good friends. See if there are groups in your area to support gay people with unaccepting families. Or groups that support kids with abusive parents who aren't necessarily gay. Find others to help you, they will make your life easier until you can move out.

Well, I don't think telling him he's cute is the best way to proceed, unless you have strong suspicions that he's gay. Straight guys don't always take this well. Why not just say hi to him. I don't know how you know him, but you can chat about some common interest or whatever it is people talk about nowadays. Who knows, he might turn out to be a total jerk, or he might be a perfectly nice person whose personality is incompatible with yours, or thousands of other possibilities.

This right here makes me suspect you're not really "in love" with this guy per se... I don't think you can really love someone without knowing them at all. At this point I think you're just fascinated by him more because he's cute. That's okay, we all do that, and it's where a lot of relationships begin. That said- why not try getting to know him a little better rather than making a declaration of love right off the bat. That way you can find out whether he really is someone you're interested in. Then you have to find out whether he is gay. This is an art form, but a good way to start is just to discuss the gay marriage issue and see how he feels about that. I wouldn't do this until you know him a little better. And bear in mind that most people are straight. Sad but true.

By the same logic you could say that straight marriage is sinful. Are you opposed to straight marriage? Besides, I was under the impression that God IS love. No, it's not true, it's what YOU think. You are entitled to your beliefs, but since I strongly suspect that you are heterosexual I doubt you have done very serious thinking on this topic. For seven years there hasn't been a week in my life that has passed where I haven't been conscious of being homosexual. I have struggled with this in relation to being Catholic, and I have come to this conclusion: A God that would send someone to Hell simply for LOVING other human being (and I believe that love is the most noble of all human emotions) --- that God is cruel, unjust, and evil. I want nothing to do with such a God, and if he/she wishes to send me to Hell for this, so be it. But I do NOT believe that such a God exists. I believe that God is all-loving and merciful, the God that is revealed in Scripture, a God that is Love itself. Such a God would celebrate any kind of love and bless it, and he/she has blessed my love in kind. It is true that the church teaches that homosexuality is evil, but the church is a human institution, very flawed. The church has tortured people on the rack for being Protestant, slayed Muslims for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, raped altar boys, and suppressed women. I do love the church, but it is FAR from perfect. It is true that there are verses in the Bible that SEEM to indicate that homosexuality is a sin, but there are also verses that support slavery, genocide, and punishing Sabbath violators with capital punishment. The church no longer supports these practices and I doubt you do. But clearly you DO have something against gays and bisexuals because you said, and I quote, "it is a sin, always will be a sin, and will deem you to go to hell if you stay with that sin." There is something about the behavior which you believe is fundamentally wrong. I can't imagine what, but you are entitled to your beliefs. Your friends must find this very hurtful. The fact that you believe something does not make it true. Nor does it entitle your belief to respect. It is better to form an opinion based on coherent logic and observations than raw emotion. I can believe that the moon is made of cheese, but people don't have to take me seriously.

If I can be off-topic for a moment, ShySoul, having browsed quickly throug your, oh, 2000 posts or so... you seem to give a lot of sage advice and defend nice/shy guys everywhere, but don't seem to talk about yourself a whole lot... there's something very beautiful it the paragraph above. I hope you do take another shot at it. Obviously there is a lot I don't know about the situation but unrequited love generally sucks and generally you have little to lose and much to gain by taking a shot. And if I can be very forward... if she rejects you try to move on eventually. It's easy to get hung up on someone and think no one else can be like him/her, but it's simply not true. You need to tear yourself away sometimes, find someone else. Is there another forum where this is being discussed, or you can PM me if you like. Yeah, but it's my fault not his. I probably will tell him in a couple weeks. What was worse was when my best female friend fell in love with me and I had to reject her because she's not a boy. That's was very trying, especially because I DO love her very much in a platonic way. It was hard, but we made the best of the situation and came out quite well. We are now very close friends and probably will be for the rest of our lives. . By healthy I simply mean physically (as in they are able to have sex without pain) and mentally (a psychologist says they are mentally sound). I suppose I can see two people in a sexless romantic relationship, but to me the question arises: What on earth is the reason for celibacy? I can understand for disease and pregnacy prevention, but barring this, the only reason I can think of religion. I think waiting for marriage is a noble thing, although in my case it is an empty point since both church and state deny me this. However, I attend a Christian college where I have seen a ton of couples waiting to have sex until marriage, and the results have been pretty silly. I lived in a house with 7 extremely conservative religious (and horny) guys, of about whom half had girlfriends. The sexual tension in the house got very annoying and I found myself wishing that the guys with girlfriends would just have sex with them so that they would be more pleasant people to be around. I have seen more couples than I care to think about rushing into marriage so they can have sex. I see boys and girls who love each other intensley completely uncomfortable with each other physically, afraid even to kiss each other for fear of "temptation" God, if he/she exists, would not want this. You sound like a real sweetheart. I hope you go after this girl, it seems like you two would be a good match. Most Christian religions are highly critical of sex. Catholicism condemns all forms of sex outside of a heterosexual marriage. Even that kind of sex they consider a "necessary evil" for procreation. To me this is outrageous, to say that sex is only for procreation puts us on an animalistic level. Human sex is NOT only for procreation, human sex is also about love, this is what separates us from the animals. I'm all for procreation, even though I can't, but sex is much more than that. Protestantism is a little better but not much. Most teach that sex outside of marriage is invariably wrong, which is not true.

Interesting discussion. I think I'll jump in radomnly. I am a 20-year old unwilling celibate. I am also homosexual, so that complicates things a bit. If I understand the arguments correctly I think I agree with ShySoul with some reservations. Up until two years ago (when I came to college) I was perfectly happy with my sexless existence. I even had few friends at that point (I'm not a terribly social person) and was perfectly content. The problem came when I fell in love with my straight best friend. Now I am plagued with feelings of lonliness, frustration, etc. The point is, I don't lay awake at night wishing "God, I wish I could have sex." I think, "I wish John were here." Of course I fantasize about having sex with him, but the things that really break my heart are when I think about us having lunch together, buying groceries, him trying to bake cookies that always turned out like bricks, etc. etc. To me, the greater pain is not so much that John didn't love me (well, he did, but not romantically) but that I wasn't allowed to love him, to tell him how much I cared for him, etc. The thing is, when comments are made such as "Sex is a need, that, if left unfulfilled, makes you tense and crabby" puzzles me, because if that were true prostitutes and one-night stands would indeed make people happy, which never seems to be true to me. I find that people who go to prostitutes tend to be incredibly unhappy and sexually unsastisfied. Loveless sex doesn't seem to diminish sex drive at all. One thing I disagree with ShySoul on is that sex with love is, I think, a need that people have. I wonder if that is more what Cordivae is trying to say, "Loveful sex is a need that if, unfulfilled, can lead to psychological problems and stress." I would agree with that, it's been true in my case to be sure. I can't conceive of two healthy mature individuals not having sex as part of a romantic relationship. I wonder exactly what is meant by "sex" here. Are we referring exclusively to intercourse? Obviously there are people who are unable to have sex for physical reasons, but I'm sure they find other means of expressing their love in a physical manner. I can't conceive of two lovers not loving each other physically in some way. It does seem to me that spirtuality can be a substitute for sex with love in certain cases. As a Catholic I know quite a few people who seem very fulfilled in their celibacy, but I think this is relatively unusual. These people are so intensely focused on God, and he/she is so real to them that their is no room in their heart for anything else. I think few people are capable of this, however (And for the record their are a ton of sexually repressed priests out there too as we are all too aware) I think Americans (and perhaps Westerners in general) have an incredibly unhealthy concept of sex. On the one hand, we have pop culture which glorifies loveless sex of all kinds, and the other hand we have a church which brands nearly all kinds of sex as sinful (I do think sex can be hurtful sometimes, but not nearly as much as the church says). I do think that many of Western society's problems can be linked to this unhealthy sexual attitude, although I'm not sure what the solution is. I wonder how other cultures deal with sexual needs and which solutions seem to be the most effective. Cordivae, did Jefferson really say that? That's hilarious.

Wow, your situation is astonshingly similar to mine- my post "roommate crush" I posted a while ago. I think that what you're doing is courageous, healthy, and wonderful. It may have been better to tell him face to face, but I understand the fear of rejection from someone who seems like your whole world, like an angel... I never did get the courage to tell John my orientation and feelings for him. It just seemed too much... I was already hanging from a thread already, and to risk that crushing rejection... it was just too much. I hope and pray that your love doesn't reject you, but even if he does, it can be a mixed blessing. It's true, you have little to lose since you don't really have a chance at the relationship you want and even your friendship is slowly decaying as most friendships do eventually. And it can spur you to seek someone else, preferably someone who is also gay. The heart sometimes gets so full of love for one person it can't even think about other people... sometimes it needs to be emptied to make room for someone else. I hope things turn out alright and keep us posted. I know what you are going through.

Hello all, Lately I have come to realize that I suck at being gay and need basic advice on how to be gay. I mean this in jest of course, I don't think it's any more possible to suck at being gay than at being straight, but there are issues that I've having troubles dealing with, namely, coming out, and dating. For those of you that remember my post "roommate crush" - I am 20 years old although I feel, look, and act much older. There was never a struggle to identify myself, I always knew I was gay. I was homeschooled through highschool and didn't really have to deal with the social aspects of my sexuality until college, I foolishly picked a Christian college (not because of the Christianity, because of the awesome music department). At college I fell madly in love with one of my housemates, a sweet, caring, brilliant, gentle, beautiful, and wholly innocent guy who also turned out to be extremely straight and thought homosexuality was a sin. He graduated in May, we parted with him never discovering my orientation. I think of him frequently, I am trying to limit contact with him so that I can finally get over him (this has been going on far too long- 2 years and counting) and I think I am making limited progress in this area. Thoughts of John still hinder my looking for someone else, and cause me to lose motivation when thinking about dating (I think my heart thinks he's the perfect one and won't listen to my brain). This has sent me into depression many times and this disaster is still a heavy burden that I carry. Anyways, over the summer I'm involved with an acting troupe doing musical theater, which is definitely a better place to meet gay people than the college, but I'm still sucking at this. I just don't know how to approach people or when I'm being approached. There was a guy who I was positive had a crush on me, but it turned out he was joking and was straight. There was another guy who made what I thought was an anti-gay remark when we were discussing homosexuality who turned out to be gay. I'm told that people have no idea that I'm gay also, I have no mannerisms, and it always comes as a huge shock when I come out to somebody. In addition, I'm a fairly reserved, quiet person. I wouldn't describe myself as shy per se, I'm not afraid of people, but I'm not really much of a people-person, I prefer practicing the piano to partying, etc. I do have a small circle of friends whom I love intensely, but our activities are mostly things like going to coffee, sitting around and talking for hours, playing board games, etc. I don't really like alcohol and the atmosphere that goes with it. In my mind this conflicts with what it means to be "gay" in the traditional sense, i.e., hard-partier, bargoer, etc. To me much of this aggressive socializing is necessary when you are gay since such a tiny percentage of the population is gay, so you have to meet a ton of people before you find any gay people. To me this is very depressing. I've decided that if I am to stand a snowball's chance in h*** of meeting someone I need to come out. I am not totally closeted, but the people who know are mainly my family (who are wonderful and extremely supprotive, thank God) and my close friends. Anyways, I realize I don't really know how to do this either. I can't really wear a T-shirt that says "I'm gay" and it's not really a great topic at parties- the very last thing I want to talk about in fact. I talk about my orientation much the same way I talk about religion- as little as possible. To me it is a private topic that is too intense for ordinary conversation. Is this a bad attitude? Should I become more cavalier and flippant about this and mention it in passing frequently? I realize I've written alot with no specific questions- I guess what I'm asking for is just advice from all the topics I've covered- how to get over John, how to detect other gay people, how to approach and be approached, how to be shy and gay, how to come out and discuss my orientation, etc. etc.