Carnatic

I would say there has to be some niceness in there somewhere. 1/ If you are born a nice guy you're not ever gonna learn to be an attractive 'rebel without a cause' style bad guy... you may pull off the 'complete prat' Arnold Rimmer style bad guy but that's not attractive, stick to what you're good at. 2/ GottaLetItBurn has a point about charm, charm is nice, girls like charm. Don't pander to her every whim, or behave like you need her but don't be totally dismissive of her, becuase if you are behaving like too much of a bad guy then you just end up being antisocial and that doesn't exude confidence, joke with her, have a laugh, complement her, show that you aren't afraid to do these things. that's attractive. Anyway that's my point on that debate, but other than that, I hope this doesn't turn into yet another nice guy/bad guy debate, because I don't think this post needs to do that.

Don't worry wlfpack, I have no intentions of approaching any girl who smiles at me, whether I took a smile as attraction or not, I'm quite shy of putting myself on the line by approaching a girl. I just wanted to feel some kind of confidence that if a girl is smiling at me there is a chance it is because she likes me, I don't really need to know what the proportion of girls who smile at me like me are, be it 50%, 10% or 1%, as long as I know the fact that girls smile at me a fair amount means that there are at least some girls out there who may be attracted to me. I would guess though, that while a smile doesn't always mean attraction, attraction often leads to a smile, thereforeeee some smiles must mean attraction.

I think pretty much, guys don't go out with mate's exs, even if the ex was the one dumped. It's not just unwritten code to protect the mate, but it's also becuase it would feel a little weird to go out with a girl who you know as a former girlfriend of your mate.

lol, maybe I would of but we were passing eachother, her leaving as I was entering. meh, I find it difficult to strike up conversation just like that anyway, slightly easier if there is an obvious way in, in this case, even had she not been leaving I wouldn't have had anything to say... just another girl who I can smile to myself about and say 'see, there are girls out there who might be attracted to you'

The book was written by a man... which alters the perspective somewhat, it isn't necessarily how girls naturally want to behave, he is telling them they should behave that way, and as keenan said a lot of girls seem to like this way of thinking, maybe because it takes some pressure off them. Back to smiling, and trying to tell when a smile is more than just a gesture, last night I was in a bar, a girl who I passed going in smiled at me as we passed (I think I may have smiled at her first) and then turned her head to look at me as she walked away. Does this kind of thing mean anything?

lol, I'm not asking about anything anymore really. I sort of digressed twice in my last post, anything really which explains things. Girls also do smile at me a lot in general places, like cafes and shops. But I always knew it was only really likely that a smile might suggest attraction when in a bar or something. I still like being smiled at though, as I'm sure anyone does, and I prefer not to really think whether a girl smiling at me as I walk by her in town was smiling just because she happened to be in a good mood, because we are just walking past eachother so it doesn't really matter why, I just take it a possible attraction, it makes me happy myself, and feel more confident and I carry on walking. I try to give some smiles back too

arrgh! It's like a conspiracy against us, it's written by a guy too. *looks to the sky and holds his arms aloft* WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO US GREG BEHRENDT? No, it's not true, either he has a really narrow view of the world... or maybe... just maybe... he wants to narrow down the competition to himself by removing a good chunk... like coming on 50% of the guys from the picture. Just the other week I had to explain to a good friend that guys weren't really all like this, just some of them, becuase she was having that 'he hasn't approached me so he can't be interested' thing, and as far as I know things are going well now between her and her 'chap' albeit as a long distance relationship. I can see why girls might like it as it relieves pressure from them but seriously it's not good for girls either as it cuts down their chances with men by telling them to ignore a whole swathe of the male population. I certainly don't stop at nothing to approach a girl and get her number, and I don't think girls can really say confidence is a thing and that guys who are shy to approach them aren't worth it because they like confident guys, because an important thing is, guys can be very confident but afraid of approaching girls, because so much pressure is placed on us to approach girls, that the fear of rejection is very real. I admit, I take the pressure off myself by waiting for girls to approach me, and when they do I'm quite confident, and I guess, good at relaxing girls by being just down to earth and not building an encounter up into a big sexually charged 'will we-won't we'. If anything I do that too well, because if girls don't feel a bit of tension or awkwardness in talking to a guy maybe they take that as a lack of interest... I digress, but I don't want to assume girls who don't approach me aren't interested, I'm just too shy to approach her, I will smile at her or make eye contact and maybe she will approach me, maybe she won't. Sometimes I will be slightly more proactive, but the ways in which I do this I don't fully understand, I just sometimes find myself talking to a girl when she didn't actually approach me. I digress again... Girls... don't follow the advice in this book, it's just plain wrong.

Yeah, this is another thing I don't like, girls waiting for the guy to approach them as thought it's the only way... but I just thought it was purely instinctive, I didn't know there were books which said 'If a guy likes you he will approach you'. It sort of discriminates against the shy guys, (who can still be confident). I'm fairly confident with my mates and outgoing and chatty with girls who approach me, but I still come over all shy at the idea of making the first move. And I guess that some of the girls who make eye contact and smile are doing so becuase they want me to approach them, but I'm too shy, mainly because I'm unsure, and not knowing what can be read into a girl's behaviour from a distance. Maybe my confidence and understanding of when a girl wants to be approached and when she is just being friendly will improve, but even then, when I am thinking about going over to a girl, another reason I don't is I can't seem to detach the idea of me going over to a girl with the idea of me being lecherous and a creep. Thanks for your help guys and girls

For starters, sorry if this all sounds a bit naive, but I am quite inexperienced. Hello... I know I'm on here quite a lot with problems. I guess I'm just generally confused, what with haven only just woken up to the fact that I don't necessarily have to accept a life of singledom just because I don't see what girls may be able to see in me. Background quickly, I'm 23, a virgin (not that it matters) but I have never had a girlfriend, and only 2 kisses, the first of which when I was 21... up until recently, and ending this was in a big way thanks to this site, I was in a phase of trying to just accept I wasn't a guy who girls would ever be interested in (thought of myself as ugly/boring/unfriendly/dim-witted and so on ad nauseum), now I think, even if I have difficulty coming to terms with it, maybe, just maybe girls may occasionaly find me appealing just as they seem to do every other guy out there. Anyway, enough of that and on to the smiling thing... one of the things I am confused a little about. In looking out for girls who may be showing me signs of interest, in bars, cafes or just out and about, I see quite a few girls (who I don't know of course) will make eye contact and smile at me, often if I make eye contact first I must add. Maybe, on a day when I'm out of the house this will happen one or two times; if I actually go out to a bar or suchlike it will happen much more often, three or four times sometimes. So anyway, I'm not going to get all excited about girls smiling at me, clearly some girls will naturally just smile at a guy who they see. But this is often said to be a sign of attraction, and I can see why, I like it. But clearly like I said, most wont actually be attracted to me, they just smile anyway. So what I want to know isn't just what are the signs of attraction, but, if I am in a bar and I notice a girl smiling at me, is there any way of knowing what that smile means? To be honest I don't want to know because I am intent on approaching girls who are interested to chat them up... I'm too shy for that, but I am confident and outgoing at least in other ways, and girls approach me often enough (once or twice a month if I go out once a week or something like that) that I don't feel that in order to talk to more girls I need to be the one to do the approaching. Knowing whether a girl approaching you is interested is a whole different matter by the way. But it would make me feel more confident overall, if I knew from a girl's smile that she was definitely looking a me in a 'oh he's cute' kind of way. Anyway, enough rambling... over to anyone who has any ideas... or can empathise, empathy is good too

Your problem stumps me as much as it stumps you. I know this isn't really much help but maybe you'd like to know I don't understand what attracts women either

nah, It always takes us a while to notice when our friends change for the worse.

Yes, maybe there is a hope that you can educate him to change his ways if it is true that he gets upset that his behaviour causes him to lose friends then you can let him know that he can change his behaviour. Still don't contact him though, play him at his own game. He sounds like a right manipulator and if he doesn't change then he will lose you as a friend.

I think you're generalising Eddie, it sounds like the whole 'he's gay thereforeeee he fancies every man under the sun' thing that people assume so often. Chris may fancy this guy, but he certainly hasn't said he does,so we don't know. I imagine it can be difficult for gay guys to make straight male friends just like straight guys do, because of the stigma that 'he may fancy his friend'.

eddie500 I don't think it was implied that the original poster had feelings for the guy who is using him. It just sounds like the other posters are right and you are being used, maybe when you met the guy and he was really nice to you he knew you could get him free stuff later on down the line.

Well, I would say it's up to you... frustrating advice as that may be, but hear me out. Either way I think it would suit you to cut her off, you deserve better friends than that. If you feel you need to get things off your chest then confront her tell her what you think, and then she probably will just get angry at you or someting, and 'fall out with you' either way, cut her off. If you can't stomach the confrontation, feel there is no need for it, or don't want to risk letting her get back into your life then just carry on ignoring her. Maybe in the future she will grow up, apologise, come back as a friend, but that is for her to do, not you to worry about, you just concentrate on enjoying your life

I agree with most of what diablo just said. It sounds like if you had had a bit more confidence when you first met her and asked her out then there was no reason she wouldn't have said yes, just because she had just met you adn you got on well, has some interests in common. But since then it seems you have slipped into a sort of friendzone and none of the other signs, particuarly those with light hearted joking, sound like clear sexual interest. I would learn as many lessons as possible, and prepare to maybe move on. As for your sister, she does sound like a, evil cow. I wouldn't say that you didn't have a chance with the girl because 'you are ugly' or 'you are a freak' that's your sister saying that, your only problem was probably confidence, and leaving it too long. I would imagine your sister finds it creepy the idea of her big brother and best friend dating. to be honest I'm not that keen on the idea of me going out with any girl who is connected to my family, such as brother's friend or parent's friend's daughter... I dunno, it just seems a little close to home. Anyway I digress, Learn from the advice you get here, esp what diablo just said, you can learn quite a bit on this site

It sounds like he definitely likes you. If that sounded vague it should've been simply 'He definitely does like you', that is obvious, and obvious to you too I guess I would ignore all the stuff about 'horror stories' girls giving up on him because he didn't ask them out. If I had girls interested in me and my mates were discouraging them by making out I was some kind of brick wall that couldn't be broken down I would not be very happy to say the least. They should be encouraging you, just because he wasn't forward with other girls doesn't mean he can't be with you, a guy has to learn. I only learned to be more forward through girls constantly coming up to me, if like your M, my mates had been stopping them I would have not progressed one bit and would still go all shy whenever I was approached. Of course, finally and most importantly. The thing you should do that the other girls didn't. Ask him out yourself, for coffee like you said. This will make his day, I'm sure and (basing this on myself) if a girl actually asked him(me) out then he(I) would feel a lot less restrained with her, knowing that she did definitely like him(me) and he(I) could loosen up and be more natural. It would also set you apart from the other girls who didn't bother to ask him out themselves, I think this might mean a lot to him. So good luck with that.

University of Liverpool Studying Town Planning lol my department don't believe in 9pm lectures, I don't think there is a whole 8am lecture in the whole of the uni either I think it is relevant where the original poster is going to uni, all this talk of electives, majors, fraternities and such has made me realise that going to uni in America or Canada is very different to in Britain, which in turn is different from France etc. e.g. In Britain: We don't do electives or anything like that, we come to uni with a specialist what you would call, major to study for. I for example couldn't just take a module/class from the Modern Languages department out of interest, I am restricted to making a couple of choices a year between say a module on geographical information systems and a module on sustainable development, occasionally we have had the choice relevant modules (selected for us by our department) from geography and sociology. In general we don't have flexibility that you have, we can't just say do a wide range of modules in 1st year and not decide till later what we want to major in. First year of University really is usually easier than sixth form (what you go to after school to get A Levels or GNVQs which get you into uni) for most courses, except of course some intensive ones like Medicine and Engineering. And it doesn't count towards your final grade and you only need 40% to pass. It gets a lot harder in 2nd year of course We don't have fraternities and sororities. Sports are just incidental to the univeristy, the uni itself doesn't even get involved in organising the teams that represent it, leaving that to the students' union, and the average number of spectators at a major game in a major sport, such as Liverpool v Manchester in men's football is zero The drinking age is 18, so alcohol plays a massive part in most people's student lifestyles, legally of course, there are 11 bars I know of on our campus, 9 of which are in the students' union. I don't know if this is entirely true, it is only based on a couple of conversations on yahoo with American students, but we appear to do much more writing. The people I spoke to said 2000 words would be about the longest essay they had ever written. It is about the lower end of our essays, with 3000 being about average, and 10-14,000 not being unusual. Coursework in our modules tends to carry the larger share of the marks for that module, with the exam (if there is one) often being only about 20% Students in Britain are often vilified, the locals often don't like us in their city (though Liverpool is quite friendly), the press often sterotype us as binge drinkers and layabouts, and most people are of the opinion that we do no work whatsoever and just sit on our arses all week draining money off the state and not paying taxes. That's another thing, even though we have to pay to go to uni now and we are no longer given a grant, the government is still very good to us, we get a low interest loan (or a grant if we are poor enough) and the state (as of writing) subsidises most of the cost to get us through uni, with us paying a maximum of about 11,000 a year I think (until top-up fees come in) and nothing at all if we are poor enough. Anyway, I think I have rambled on enough there..

This advice may not apply to you because you may be in a different country to me with a different educational system. But, try to do as much as you can in first year. Socialising, Partying, Activities and the like. First year is usually much easier than the college of 6th form or whatever you have just come out of, and sometimes (in the UK at least) doesn't count towards your final degree, so all that is required is that you pass it with 40% (check that this applies to your course before acting on it). You have a chance in the first few weeks of Uni, probably the only chance you'll ever have in your whole life, to be among thousands (depending which uni you are at, but loads anyway) of people your age, and be able to socialise and start conversation with anyone you want for no reason, just because they are there. Even someone who is shy can do this. If you had problems socialising at home then no matter how much you change, people will often remember who you were and not see who you are, if this applies to you then now is the time to 'reinvent' yourself, emphasis everything good about yourself which you have managed to change and be able to meet people who see you the way you are now, not the way you used to be. Find activities and societies that interest you, typically freshers will go to freshers' fayre and sign up for 200 societies and never go to any of them more than once. Pick out something that will really interest you, it is a way to meet people with your interests, and have something engaging to do once a week or whenever... if you can't find any societies representing your personal interests then just go for something completely new. Make friends, but don't do what I did and make too many friends so that you have hundreds of people who will drink with you in the student bar but noone who is especially close, again it depends on your situation, but in catered halls, you aren't put in a flat automatically with people you have to develop a closer relationship with, it is more like a hotel, everyone is independent and must make their own friends. But in 2nd year you probably have to move out of halls and find a student house or somewhere with a smaller group of select friends. Wear Sunscreen And if it gets to a point where either socialising or studying has to take priority give that priority to studying, but again, don't study too hard so that you never come out of your room, that would be bad for your mental health. Things will change a lot in 2nd year, so make the most out of 1st year.

I think people generalise about us eternally single guys, like none of us ever leave the house or talk to other people. Thunder said he goes out and stuff, I never said I don't do anything and Knglerxt said he was quiet but he didn't say he didn't go out. There could be a whole host of other reasons why we can't get girls. We just want to talk about it on here without having people immediately respond going on at us saying we need to try talking to people and leave the house every once in a while.

I can empathise you, I am also 23, and my life is similiar to yours in many respects. Never had a girlfriend, a few times when I did try and flirt/date a couple of years back that are really embarrasing to think back on, Many of my friends are seeming to move on, my best mate for the last 5 years has a girlfriend now and I hardly ever see him anymore. Always busy. I get worried that I will be single forever, or that if I do meet a girl I will be too 'single' in mentality for it to work out. As I am in the same boat in so many ways, I can't offer you much advice. Though my life has changed in a number of ways so that I have learned things I can talk about. So you can still PM me if you wanna talk. yours Carnatic.

I think in these cases we can only offer you words of support, no real adivce. You need to console yourself at how far you've come since, and that you've not let them get to you. If you see a therapist or someone then they can help you come to terms with it until you are able to tell your parents and eventually the police, but it will take a while. Good Luck

Another point, and sorry if this offends you but... You really don't want to be the girl in school who lost her virginity at 15, sure at first it might be 'wow you had sex, that's so cool', but once everyone starts to mature a bit and sex is longer the mysetery to everyone it once was, you won't be seen as 'so cool' anymore... The stigma attached to you will be.... putting it mildly, that you 'put out easily'... You don't want that.

You really should wait, for a number of reasons. 1) At 15 you are too young... sex is quite a mature concept (trying not to patronise you but at 15 you probably aren't as mature as you think you are) and trust me, the last thing you want is to become desensetised to sex at that age, do you really want to be getting stressed whenever you go weeks without sex at the age of 17, or have it start to lose its appeal by the age of 19... when you'll find a lot of worthy guys are only just starting to think about sex. 2) On a related note, (and no slur on your current bf) but if you look round guys your own age (as you might do in the future if this relationship doesn't last) you might find that the ones who are having sex at 15 are often the jerks, who will brag about it and all the other stuff that goes with it. 3) You are only 4 months into your relationship, that would maybe even be too soon for me to be wanting sex with a girl I'd started going out with... and I'm 23. I'd make sure you knew the relationship was solid first. 4) You said he had sex with his previous girlfriend soon before they broke up... What if this is his track record, what if sex makes things become awkward between you both and you end up breaking up as a result. At the end of the day it's up to you to decide when you're ready. I just think you should be aware of some of the pitfalls that are out there when you are so young. Don't rush it.

imaginary's answer sounds good, about it being a vibe. Gay people spend more time around gay people, so naturally you would expect they would become more attuned to this vibe than straight people... which is kind of what i was saying. But i'm curious about Foxlocke's answer, is that you are gay and wish you could tell better when other guys are gay. I'm interested in knowing now... how much of a problem is it for gays and lesbians, (considering they are in the minority) to pick out other people of the same sexuality.