Have I ruined my marriage?

[no angel]

Hi all,

My wife of 20 years suffers from anxiety and stress and has been taking medication since before we met. In the last month things took an unexpected turn: We'd begun to actually talk about wider issues and, slowly, issues with her childhood came to the surface. Her mother appears to exhibit a lot of traits associated with narcissism and, from what I'm hearing, behaved very oddly toward my wife and brother-in-law from when they were young. My wife was always picked up on little details like not wearing pretty clothes, not wearing make up to go out, having undesirable friends, not eating in a satisfactorily demure way and so on. Every "fault" was met with angry outbursts and my wife was always made to feel like she had failed her mother. Reactions could be extreme. For example, the family was holidaying abroad. Someone said something out of place so the holiday was cut short and they all had to return home with my mother-in-law sulking.  It seems that everything has to revolve around keeping her mother sweet and there is hell to pay if that doesn't happen. My wife is regularly told that she's not to visit if she doesn't have a happy face on and that her mother has "done parenting". My wife isn't allowed to talk about work or anything that is bothering her because it upsets her mother so she has to pretend all is fine if she wants to pop in. When my daughter went off to university, my wife was naturally upset because our eldest had left home. Not once did her mother ring or visit to see how my wife was coping despite the fact that she went through exactly the same when my wife left for uni and so should have understood my wife's feelings. My brother-in-law has all but walked away because he got sick of being constantly made to feel small and I sympathise with him 100%. Whenever my wife does have an outburst it's down to her to grovel for forgiveness which is either grudgingly given or met with disdain. Things came to a head recently and, in my anger, I told my father-in-law how my wife had been made to feel and that, from my perspective, my mother-in-law wanted her kids to be either carbon copies or extensions of herself and wasn't able to cope with them having their own ways of living their lives. This "revelation" went down very badly and I'm in the dog house for saying what I said. At first my wife understood why I said those things and was relieved that she'd finally begun to unpick her own emotions but now she's angry with me because, rather than have a relationship with her parents (albeit an abusive one on her mother's side), she now has no relationship at all (they've stopped all contact with us now). I'm really concerned because, even though I feel the truth needed to be said, I wish it had been handled better and now I seem to have permanently damaged our relationship. I don't know whether this is just a stage that we have to work through or if it's the beginning of the end. Any advice on how to salvage the situation would be so welcome right now. 

[arjumand]

Actually, and you are old enough to know this, the truth didn’t need to be said because it changes NOTHING with people like this as it is all about how you hurt THEM. 

I think this would be an ideal time for couples counseling with someone who really understands the dynamics of adults and their parents. My husband and I had similar problems when we were first married and it helped a lot. 

[Cherylyn]

Do a reset and don't be emotionally invested in your in-laws anymore.  Even though estrangement is not the ideal outcome, often times estrangement is the only way to attain peace.  Estrangement causes warring parties to take a long break and hopefully a permanent break form each other. 

You can't undo the past.  All you can do is keep moving forward.  In hindsight, most people have regrets regarding what they've said or wrote.  Learn from it, become wise and learn to keep your mouth shut.

I have dicey relationships with some local relatives and although my rapport with them isn't optimal, I work with what I've got.  If I have to walk on eggshells and it keeps the peace, I do it but I don't sell my soul in the process.  I simply enforce strong boundaries of my own with them and it works.  We have very brief, terse, superficial conversations and no more.  I do what I can within reason and no more.  In other words, we're not close.  I'm all business.  I treat them cordially as if they're my colleagues in my mindset.  It works.  I know how to act but at the same time, I'm not afraid to say, "NO" or decline politely if I don't want to do something with them because in my mind, that's the deal.  Behave well?  Then I'm more apt to cooperate.  Consistently misbehave?  Bad experiences with them in the past?  My heart's not in it anymore.  I'll only do so much with my behavior and then we part ways in a civil manner.  There is a way to deal with difficult people.  It requires trial 'n error and years of practice but I've since honed this skill quite well due to experience.  I know what works and what had failed in the past.  I'm no longer so nice and sweet.  I'm no longer a doormat.  Those days are over courtesy of people who've sorely wronged me repetitively.

You learn to navigate yourself wisely. 

You can still salvage your marriage.  Spend time together, do enjoyable activities together, take a long, extended break from your in-laws and focus on cherishing your marriage by making it content and harmonious.  It's unhealthy for in-laws to be too involved in your life anyway.

My husband and I have local relatives and in-laws but we're not close.  We're peaceful with them because we give each other a lot of time and space.  Too much familiarity breeds contempt.

[Wiseman2]

20 minutes ago, no angel said:

 but now she's angry with me because, rather than have a relationship with her parents  she now has no relationship at all 

Sorry this is happening. Let the dust settle. Hopefully in time, she'll realize that she's better off without toxic influences. Agree professional couples counseling would help unpack and sort some things out so she doesn't displace anger on you. Perhaps it was time and frankly there's no "good" way to handle toxic people. So with help hopefully you'll come together on this eventually.

[Cherylyn]

I don't have relationships with some family members and it's the best thing that ever happened to me.  It was an adjustment in the beginning but now there is relief and peace at last.  I feel protected and very safe.  It feels like FREEDOM.

[boltnrun]

I agree with counseling. 

[smackie9]

You can't argue or reason with a narcissist .....and the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. There is no treatment or therapy to treat this personality disorder. Give your wife time to figure this out...she and only she can know her own truth. Stay out of it. If she start in on you, just ask her what would work for her in resolving this...what can you do to help. Listening to her suggestions is better than offering your opinion. 

[no angel]

Thanks for the advice - I still believe it DID have to be said because, every time my wife got sucked into the old routine, her mental health took a nosedive. It wasn't until after my clumsy intervention that my wife researched her mother's behaviour and identified the narcissistic traits. We didn't know at the time what we were dealing with and I was fed up with my wife constantly taking 100% of the blame for every time she "brought down" her mother. I had to defend her because I'd come to realise that her mother needed to accept at least some responsibility. And, no, she still doesn't believe she's had any negative impact on her daughter's health.

[no angel]

12 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

You can't argue or reason with a narcissist .....and the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. There is no treatment or therapy to treat this personality disorder. Give your wife time to figure this out...she and only she can know her own truth. Stay out of it. If she start in on you, just ask her what would work for her in resolving this...what can you do to help. Listening to her suggestions is better than offering your opinion. 

Nail, firmly hit on the head. I just wish I'd come to that conclusion about 20 years ago...

[Starlight925]

Your heart was in the right place.

But, with a narcissist, nothing in the world can be said or done to make them understand, and that goes for their enabler (your wife's father).

The enabler is actually just as much at fault here, as they knowingly watched and enabled/encouraged this narci-monster to thrive, injuring your wife when in the process.

You are talking to cement blocks here.  You feel better because it's off your chest, but the cement blocks only hear your complaining, and they then take it out on your wife.  

It's a no-win situation.

As was said in the movie "War Games", the only winning move is not to play.

This is coming from someone who had the identical set of parents.  I know from where I speak.

[smackie9]

Ya this is my mother, so I speak from experience. When I was a kid I kept going to my dad telling him she's crazy, like there's something wrong with her. He didn't believe me. She hid it from everyone including my dad. She put on a mask, but took it off with me. No one knew what went on behind closed doors. It was a terrible experience. Either you kick them out of your life, or you just smile and agree with them. 

[Lambert]

Maybe you can talk to your wife about what she thinks needs to happen to make this up to her.  If you can get to talking about moving forward, maybe she will see that in addition to couples counseling, she needs therapy on her own.  She can't cope with this and you can't make her parents be better people.  So I think the only way forward is to work on what can be worked on, mainly her mental health and your relationship.  

I was in a position where I lost it on someone in my own family and it's been a big mess ever since.  I do think I was justified in what I said.  But I can see that it wasn't the best way to handle it.  I have apologized and tried to make amends, but true to their form, it's not good enough. And there isn't a lot of communication happening.

So know that sometimes we burn a bridge and we have to go on with life anyway.  You need to find out if your wife is willing to forgive you.  And if she can't, where do you go from there? In some ways, she is mirroring the abuse she received.  But she might not be ready or able to even see things that way.

I am sorry.  I am sure it is a painful situation.  

[SooSad33]

Sadly, although her parents ( mother) is so toxic, they're still her parents, and yes, of course we see it all from the outside and even though she knows this toxicity, she may feel obligated to continue her interaction with them- to possibly avoid any more anger, etc.

I understand you... wanting to see her have NO interaction at all, knowing how toxic they are, but sadly, that is up to her to realize this and act, on her own. 😕 . But, being groomed in this toxic home, is all she really knows. 

And I agree with what was said below by Lambert.

1 hour ago, Lambert said:

If you can get to talking about moving forward, maybe she will see that in addition to couples counseling, she needs therapy on her own.  She can't cope with this and you can't make her parents be better people.  So I think the only way forward is to work on what can be worked on, mainly her mental health and your relationship.  

Yes, hopefully some prof help will be considered and she can come to be happier & more stable, mentally over time.  And I do hope she can forgive you, knowing you did this out of the good of your heart.

[Tinydance]

Well I doubt that you actually ruined your marriage. I mean, you've been married for twenty years and your wife's mother has always been an issue. Yet you and your wife are still together lol 

The problem I see here is that if your wife wants to spend time with her mother, there isn't much you can actually do. Your wife knows how her mother is, how badly she treats her. Now she's even starting to realise that her mother is probably a narcissist. If your wife wants to have her mother in her life then unfortunately there isn't really anything you can do. And it's clear she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong by treating her children this way so I don't think anyone telling her anything will change anything. The thing about narcissists is that they never actually think they're wrong and they're always convinced it's the other person being horrible. 

I think the best you can probably do if your wife reconciles with her parents is just to keep your distance from them.

 

[indea08]

I’m going to focus on your relationship with your wife, because that’s the relationship you want to repair.

As many other’s have pointed out, your wife’s understanding and comprehension of her parents’ poor behavior is very new. She’s going to have to navigate that at her own pace, and you’re going to have to let her. Your role is to simply listen, offer support and empathy.

Your wife will need to talk about her feelings, vent about the new load of BS her mom has given her, and when she does this, she is not looking for a solution from you. She just wants you to understand how she feels, support her by telling her she’s not wrong to feel the way she feels, love her by listening and not making suggestions. 

When you had an outburst at her father, you made your wife feel like she can’t trust you to hear her feelings without taking some rash action. She likely regrets being open with you because it resulted in an argument and further strain on her relationship with her parents. 

It is hard to not want to fix it for her, I get it…but you cannot. That has to come from her. I would say your best bet is to explain to her that you understand this, and apologize for how you handled it, and let her know that in the future you will be there for support but will not say or do anything further unless she asks you for help.

[Coily]

19 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

You can still salvage your marriage.  Spend time together, do enjoyable activities together, take a long, extended break from your in-laws and focus on cherishing your marriage by making it content and harmonious.  It's unhealthy for in-laws to be too involved in your life anyway.

My husband and I have local relatives and in-laws but we're not close.  We're peaceful with them because we give each other a lot of time and space.  Too much familiarity breeds contempt.

I 1000% agree with this. In-laws, even the most lovely wonderful people should be at arms length in a marriage. It's about healthy boundaries and mutual respect, which clearly the OP's monster-in-law has none of; unless the boundaries are used as a threat and punishment.

As others have said make amends to your wife, but also make it clear what your boundaries are in you personal interactions with the in-laws. If that means you need to go for an errand mysteriously when visiting the in-laws do so.

I will ask is your wife close to her brother? If so maybe he can give some assistance from afar in navigating this new parental distance.

[Betterwithout]

We can't pick our family, but we can pick our friends.    I know people who have absolutely amazing parents and their relationship is always a great one.  On the flipside, I also know many more with dysfunctional upbringings that either struggle through the relationship or abandon it altogether.  (Either the parent or child is voluntarily estranged from the other).
On paper, trying to keep the peace and maintain a relationship built on toxicity seems to be the right choice, but for some it is just too mentally demanding and messes up your own life.  Most people take the "flight" response and focus on their own lives without the "baggage" of the family relationship.
They can go on to live simpler smoother lives, but it's not a "one size fits all" arrangement.

As far as your marriage goes, this should be your top priority from where I sit, so focus on mending that.

[catfeeder]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:42 PM, no angel said:

I don't know whether this is just a stage that we have to work through or if it's the beginning of the end.

This is the question I'd ask wife.

I'd tell her that I understand what I said to her father betrayed her trust, because we should be able to confide in one another without losing our own control over how that information will be disclosed to others. You misused it against her will.

Your disclosure was not your choice to make, it was hers. If you continue to insist to her that your betrayal of her trust was somehow righteous, then by definition you're continuing to insist that she cannot trust you going forward. 

And yes, replacing wife's will with your own is likely to ruin your marriage if it has not done so already.

[Jibralta]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:42 PM, no angel said:

I don't know whether this is just a stage that we have to work through or if it's the beginning of the end. Any advice on how to salvage the situation would be so welcome right now. 

Believe it or not, I think you handled the situation well. It sounds like she's having a hard time, which doesn't surprise me given her parents. She's probably worried--just as worried as you are, but for different reasons. Treat this as a stage you have to work through.