Do I want too much?

[Maria_maria]

We've been dating for a year now and are at our mid 30s. He's a GREAT guy. He's secure, kind, generous, reliable, wants a family and offers a kind of stability that I didn't even know existed. We have similar values and love spending the free time in similar ways (lots of outdoors, cooking, traveling) and he's great at pretty much everything... but ... the conversations with him have always been rather dry and boring. When I tell him stories about anything (be it my life or job, things happening in the world etc), his usual response is something like "oh, interesting". When I excitedly tell him good news his response is "oh, good". When I tell him something sad, his response is "oh, not so good". He doesn't follow up with questions and lacks curiosity to know and understand more. I often find myself frustrated and missing long, engaging conversations. Lately our conversations are mainly about organisational stuff - what to cook, what to do on the weekend etc. He is by no means unintelligent or dumb, has a great and detailed technical knowledge, but just somehow lacks some curiosity that I very much have. Lately we've been talking about moving in together, maybe even getting a house together. I do want it all, but I also find myself afraid of a lifetime of boring conversations with him. Everything else is pretty perfect. Do I want too much? Can I just have friends for philosophical and interesting conversations? Thoughts are appreciated 🙂 

[Jambalaya421]

some people aredry and do not have the empathy or awareness. 

 

leaning on friends for emotional needs lead to emotional affairs. it does not have to be romanticto be emotionalaffairs.

 

This characteristic you feel the void of, is what makes a relationship last. It is the essence on why people are together.

 

It is a recipe for a lonely life, not getting needs met. My advice would be to discuss with him in a kind matter and offer Positive and proactive counseling. He might just surprise you. But do not expect friends and family to fill that void.

[arjumand]

Nope, nope, nope. You cannot build a life with someone you cannot talk to and who does not communicate. In times of stress and times of bliss you want a partner who shares with you. This is never going to work long term when things get complicated — how will you work through things? Even now, how do you really know much about him? He sounds lovely, but a long term intimate relationship requires in depth communication. NOT all the time, but when it’s needed. 
 

Also, if you already find conversation with him boring, this is unlikely to improve and will likely get worse. You don’t want a relationship where you find yourself with nothing to say and look elsewhere for fulfillment. 

[Maria_maria]

Is in depth communication something that one can learn? We've spoken about it and he's open to counceling or therapy. He definitely has a lot of empathy, he goes out of his way to help me when I am stressed or unhappy. Just not with words, but with actions (he rearranges his plans to be with me, he cooks and takes care of everything else so that I can relax).

[DancingFool]

Long term relationships are like a tripod. For it to stand, you need the sexual connection, intellectual connection, and emotional connection. If any one of these is missing, your relationship will collapse. Intuitively you already know this, thus the fear of moving forward. For you, that intellectual connection and perhaps even some level of emotional connection is missing.

As for him gong to counseling or therapy....I mean really? He isn't broken, OP and it's really out of line for you to even suggest that he go to counseling to change his personality to suit yours. Why don't you go to counseling then to learn how to need to communicate less? Same thing isn't it? Why are your needs greater than his? 

[Maria_maria]

I definitely don't try to change his personality. We've spoken about it and he said that he would like to communicate more (especially the emotional side), but somehow, cannot express himself. Counceling was his idea, not mine.

[DancingFool]

12 minutes ago, Maria_maria said:

I definitely don't try to change his personality. We've spoken about it and he said that he would like to communicate more (especially the emotional side), but somehow, cannot express himself. Counceling was his idea, not mine.

Except that he CAN express himself just fine through actions. It's just not something that you understand or that works for you.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Maria_maria said:

Is in depth communication something that one can learn?  He definitely has a lot of empathy, he goes out of his way to help me when I am stressed or unhappy. Just not with words, but with actions (he rearranges his plans to be with me, he cooks and takes care of everything else so that I can relax).

What exactly do you have to discuss with him, that he won't discuss? Perhaps a man who is about actions, rather than words is not for you? 

You've only been dating a year so it's time to stop talking about buying houses, therapy, etc. Even suggesting he go to therapy so you can fix him is odd, no?

Dating, especially the first year is a what you see is what you get situation, not a let's buy a house and you need therapy because your not chatty enough situation. 

Relax. Why not try talking about something he is interested in? Why not take some classes, courses, volunteer, talk to friends, family, etc.? 

You'll have to weigh if conversation is worth jettisoning him.

[smackie9]

Does he has  Asperger Syndrome? people like that struggle to read social cues, and not know how to respond or interact with others. That would explain the short answers. He's just responding by mirroring.

[Rose Mosse]

I think it's part of dating and getting to know the other person. I think he's offering counselling to please you but that's just his character. One of the reasons I married my ex was because he actually had that sense of curiosity about the world. The conversations were easily very long and we'd start at Point A and go way off and touch on a hundred topics in one conversation effortlessly. Our dinners would start at 7 pm and we would still be at the dining table discussing and conversing till 3 am. 

There were also drawbacks to this type of curiosity which I won't get into but balance is best.

I do know what it's like when you meet someone and there's not enough of that or perhaps your conversations and interests don't quite overlap. 

I look back now and I probably would not mind someone who is less talkative or curious. Life changes you too and as you get to know one another. I hope you both can appreciate each other more.

 

 

[SooSad33]

So, no real engagement in actual conversations and you are feeling it's not right.

Why you are talking about buying a home together ?  Has only been one year.  See IF you are even still together, in another 2 yrs, before discussing such an idea.

Do you guys ever have any real heart to heart discussions? Like, emotional ,where he does engage?  Maybe has a low EQ?

Either way, a couple needs to be able to talk, communication is important. Not the blah, dead end replies.

[Batya33]

I dated a lovely guy like him when I was around 19 and he was 24 - we were in touch recently -yes over 30 years later -we connected on linkedin. We only emailed but from what he wrote I sensed maybe he did grow in conversational skills/curiosity, etc.  I remember when I "confronted" him about how he was and he told me very simply -and nicely -that is how he was, take it or leave it. His dad was like him -his mom  - just like me -and we had very looonng meandering conversations LOL.  I knew he wouldn't change and no we didn't last.  And yes - completely lovely person, couldn't do enough for me, generous with his friends, close with family but..... it wasn't going to last.

[Cherylyn]

I don't think you want too much.  If you want a more engaging conversationalist, then he's not for you.  Find a man who checks all of your boxes.

My husband is everything you had described.  He's a great all around guy, great father to our sons, great morals, great job, great values, well liked by many, very compatible, helpful, kind, respectful, industrious except he's not as chatty as I am.  He's kind of a quiet guy but not unreasonable either.  He possesses aplomb, grace, very gentlemanly, well mannered and poised.  I can talk a mile a minute whereas he's a great listener.  He has wise input should I ask.  However, he too is not a man of many words.  His other attributes outweigh his lack of chit chat though.

I've known men who are hyperactive, boisterous talkers, full of hot air but no money, no good family background and no good job.  Many men don't lift a finger to help with everyday chores, tasks, errands, don't help with child rearing from day one and they're all talk and no action.  I don't like men like that.  I've known men who can talk a good game while consistently selfish, unkind and inconsiderate.  They're the life of the party and sociable yet behind closed doors, they're not easy to live with because they're high maintenance and the poor women are left haggard doing everything.  I've known men with Jekkyl 'n Hyde personalities. 

At least with my husband, what you see is what you get.  There are no pretenses whatsoever.  I prefer a humble, very modest man in character who isn't an incessant talker. 

If I had my druthers,  I prefer a man who has core values and morals yet not overly chatty versus a talker who lacks in other areas of moral character.  That's just me and I'm not you. 

When I dated my husband, I noticed he was on the quiet side but he has dry wit and I like that.  I've grown to respect him even more because his substance is enduring. 

[Batya33]

I think there's a huge difference between chatty and a good conversationalist in a close relationship.  Chatty -talking a good game -is often fake.  Small talk is awesome if the purpose is to make a new person feel comfortable in his/her own skin (why I do it and also i'm naturally curious but don't want to pry).  A good conversationalist -someone who is curious, who asks good follow up questions, who is a good listener - that's not full of hot air - that's a person -man or woman -who wants to know how his partner ticks, who cares enough to draw out his partner if he sees she/he is having a hard time expressing herself but also knows how to be quiet and give his partner time to think and reflect - like your partner is the caring sounding board.  

[Cherylyn]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think there's a huge difference between chatty and a good conversationalist in a close relationship.  Chatty -talking a good game -is often fake.  Small talk is awesome if the purpose is to make a new person feel comfortable in his/her own skin (why I do it and also i'm naturally curious but don't want to pry).  A good conversationalist -someone who is curious, who asks good follow up questions, who is a good listener - that's not full of hot air - that's a person -man or woman -who wants to know how his partner ticks, who cares enough to draw out his partner if he sees she/he is having a hard time expressing herself but also knows how to be quiet and give his partner time to think and reflect - like your partner is the caring sounding board.  

I agree.  If you can't have everything, what's important is what you value.  That's what I have.  My husband and I have brief conversations as opposed to long drawn out ones and I'm okay with that.  I love his occasional dry wit.  (I despise goofy, dumb humor.)  He's a good conversationalist.  However, not overly so.  He doesn't even correspond electronically other than basics for work and with me and family.  Again, I'm fine with it and my sons are the same way.  However, I love their intelligent sense of humor.  They are very witty men. 

My husband helps me with EVERYTHING and he makes my life smooth and easy.  I love a man who can give his wife and family a very stable, comfortable life.  Anything else is extraneous and basic, peaceful, calm everyday living is good enough for me.  However, I'm not other people and if they want more, then by all means go get more! 

If OP, Maria_maria wants more, she should get more.  She can't change her guy.  He is who he is.  If he's not good enough for her, then she has the right to choose some other man and likewise, her guy can choose another woman who doesn't expect more than what he's willing to give of himself. 

[boltnrun]

My brother is the opposite of reticent.  Conversations with him are more like monologues, with him doing all the talking and the other person occasionally being allowed to throw in an "uh huh".  If you try to contribute to the conversation he literally jumps up and down and says "Don't interrupt me!!"  He won't allow anyone to get in a word edgewise.  Even if I start the conversation he soon takes over and dominates it.  (Interestingly, his soon to be ex wife did all the talking.  When she was around he almost never spoke because SHE spoke incessantly).

So, that is an extreme opposite of this man you're dating.

My ex husband wasn't much of a talker but he'd talk to me.  We could converse for hours and hours and it was equally balanced.

I get what you're looking for, but this man you're dating is not going to fundamentally change.  So it's up to you to decide if his personality is a deal breaker.  Sure, there could be a man out there who has everything this man has PLUS is a good conversationalist.  Maybe you'd like to take a chance of trying to find him.

Just think about if you'd look back with regret for letting this one go for this reason.  Only you can decide if it's worth it to stop dating him and search for someone else.

[Wiseman2]

Have you considered talking about important things or things he's interested in?

Are you implying he's not intelligent?

It seems like you talk lot and the subject matter is boring to him, but because he loves you he listens.

Personally I find actions speak louder than words. 

He is clearly caring and obviously in tune with you. He doesn't shut you out. 

To view this from another angle is it possible you talk too much? Is it possible your need to discuss your feelings suggests that you rather than he would benefit from therapy?

Maybe you're just not that into him and you take him for granted. Perhaps you're used to more drama?

 

[Cherylyn]

Are you willing to change for him? 

 

[Tinydance]

Well the only advice I can give here is to listen to your gut feelings. There is really no right or wrong answer at all in this because liking and loving someone is subjective. Also connection can't be forced and it just happens naturally. That's why some people say they get along with each other like a "house on fire" and can "talk for hours". Sometimes you just do have that good conversational click, and sometimes you don't. 

I myself am very talkative and like people to listen to me and take interest in what I'm saying. It's not all one sided because my friends said I do also listen and ask questions and remember everything people told me. But I do like to talk and I do want someone to act interested in what I'm saying. So if someone (especially my partner) never really asked me any questions and made boring responses and didn't really comment, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it either. So you're not alone in that.

Another thing to think about is that all the things you said about your partner are things that many people have. Many people are nice, stable, want a family, have some common interests with us. The interests you mentioned like cooking, trips, outdoors are actually quite common. It's not like you have very niche interests like stamp collecting or taxidermy or something lol So what I mean is, yes your partner is a nice person and has those things to offer, but so do many other men. Lots of people we meet are good people and have those qualities but it's only some people we really feel that spark and connection with. 

I think back in the day when women usually didn't work and needed to marry a stable man to get by, maybe you'd get the advice to just go ahead and marry your boyfriend. These days though things are different and we don't actually have to settle.

I would say ask yourself if you love him and picture a future together? If you close your eyes and try to picture yourself at the altar with him, do you see it? If not and your gut just tells you he's not the one, maybe you should listen to it. 

[LotusBlack]

15 hours ago, DancingFool said:

As for him gong to counseling or therapy....I mean really? He isn't broken, OP and it's really out of line for you to even suggest that he go to counseling to change his personality to suit yours. Why don't you go to counseling then to learn how to need to communicate less? Same thing isn't it? Why are your needs greater than his? 

I agree with this. He isn’t broken, he just communicates less verbally than you. Maybe find others ways of engaging with him that is a balance between both of your personalities and you may just stumble on an exciting new way of connecting. Or, it may just be that you and he are incompatible, unfortunately. Could it be that the things you are talking about are not interesting to him? What happens if you talk about something he was involved in too or something related to him, does he become more animated then or is he much the same? The answer to that may show that he is capable of engaging conversations and just isn’t doing so with you.

What connected you two together in the first place if not the conversation?

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have you considered talking about important things or things he's interested in?

Are you implying he's not intelligent?

It seems like you talk lot and the subject matter is boring to him, but because he loves you he listens.

Personally I find actions speak louder than words. 

He is clearly caring and obviously in tune with you. He doesn't shut you out. 

To view this from another angle is it possible you talk too much? Is it possible your need to discuss your feelings suggests that you rather than he would benefit from therapy?

Maybe you're just not that into him and you take him for granted. Perhaps you're used to more drama?

 

Well I think the "just not into him" might be the main thing here. I think when we love someone we see them in a very good light. Understandably after one year it might not be the honeymoon phase anymore, but if you're into someone you wouldn't be thinking you don't like conversations with them. It's not picky though to want someone you can have great conversations with. They say you should marry your best friend. So that means having that connection and having a good conversations. 

[Batya33]

12 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

I agree.  If you can't have everything, what's important is what you value.  That's what I have.  My husband and I have brief conversations as opposed to long drawn out ones and I'm okay with that.  I love his occasional dry wit.  (I despise goofy, dumb humor.)  He's a good conversationalist.  However, not overly so.  He doesn't even correspond electronically other than basics for work and with me and family.  Again, I'm fine with it and my sons are the same way.  However, I love their intelligent sense of humor.  They are very witty men. 

My husband helps me with EVERYTHING and he makes my life smooth and easy.  I love a man who can give his wife and family a very stable, comfortable life.  Anything else is extraneous and basic, peaceful, calm everyday living is good enough for me.  However, I'm not other people and if they want more, then by all means go get more! 

If OP, Maria_maria wants more, she should get more.  She can't change her guy.  He is who he is.  If he's not good enough for her, then she has the right to choose some other man and likewise, her guy can choose another woman who doesn't expect more than what he's willing to give of himself. 

Yes, you have those priorities and she has different ones -what you described as far as making your life smooth and easy and someone who gives a stable comfortable life is paramount for you.  I think we all want to find the match that is perfect for us - as opposed to a perfect person that does not exist and we're not perfect either so.....  I don't think other people want "more' than you -just different perhaps. 

What you wrote about your husband I can see objectively is great for you and it's not something I strove for in the least in finding a perfect match for me.  So I didn't want "more" just different.  What you describe as extraneous others see as paramount and vice versa. 

Was it important to me -sure -in the spectrum of importance -was it something I looked for -what you described as essential for you -not in the least.  Married 12 years, my husband works very hard in every single way (meaning not just job/career), he's a great parent in every way, and I'm a big believer in throwing money at the problem if you have the money for tasks/chores/errands neither of you really cherish doing - within reason - I'd rather pay someone to help or "barter" -even knowing that if something needed to be done he'd step up to the plate and do it. 

It doesn't thrill me or make me happy if he does it or even offers to do it as opposed to someone hired to do whatever it is.  Certainly that isn't true all the time - we're not made of money, others can never afford to hire anyone but the mindset of looking to my husband first for help in running the household is not my mindset (depending on what it is). I know many who barter who can't afford but get together with neighbors who have certain skills/talents, etc. even if the money isn't there and that's very comfortable for them instead of delighting in their partner stepping up to the plate and insisting on doing everything to make his partner's life easier.  With the exception that I wish he'd log in to our apartment buiilding's website sometimes to organize when the maintenance person should come to fix whatever.  But like you I balance that irritation against all the (non-monetary) riches I have in him.

I digress -my point is I don't think she's asking for "more" because I don't assume she's looking for what you were looking for (as an example I was not).  But I can relate to wanting a partner who you feel at home with and if "at home with" means being able to talk together in a give and take way, in an interesting way, in an inspiring way at times or just chat without necessarily being chatty -that's her perogative just as it was mine.  

OP - I like what Wiseman said about whether you know what interests him -I've always made it a priority to be up on at least a good deal of what my husband is interested in and over the years I've even -gasp -watched a couple of Star Trek episodes (!!).  I made sure when I was a stay at home momma for 7 years to be well read and keep up on current events that he was interested in, for example.  It's good to stretch your horizons and brain!

[RubyTrue]

This sounds awfully similar to my own experiences with my partner. We've now been together over 5 years, we bought a house, had a baby. And nothing has changed.

 

It's hard to see the relationship as a negative when there are so many positives but in my experience those red flags never go away. No house, no amount of years and no baby is going to change that.

 

When you go to buy a house, you need to be 100% all in. If you still think there is more in you to try then I would suggest renting, but make sure you have a back up plan for where you can go if it doesnt work out. From your description it sounds like the relationship has run its course but I know it is all more complex than that.

 

Trust your gut, is all I can say. And good luck x

[Cherylyn]

12 hours ago, Batya33 said:

 

I'm not going to get into semantics.  "Wanting more" is the same expression as having more expectations, more on one's checklist to tick off and desiring more.   As I've since reiterated, I said that if any person wants more from another person and they're disappointed in them because personality is not quite up to snuff, no one is willing to bend, contort nor change for each other, then obviously they're not a good, idyllic match.  Obviously, they're incompatible.  Hence, find another partner who will satisfy you and give you what you want as I had initially suggested to the OP, Maria_maria. 

I've also initially said that if your guy is not good enough for you, then you won't be satisfied so go get another man who will give you what you want such as a more involved conversationalist which I fully support, btw.  By the same token, your guy is also free to choose another woman who will be satisfactory for him as well.  It works both ways. 

I agree, my extraneous checklist varies from others.  Having a peaceful, loving, caring, nurturing, calm household is good enough for me.  Sure, my husband is a good back 'n forth conversationalist.  However, I don't need a talker more than what is already sufficient. 

Throwing money around.  We have our own personal decisions and choices.  I'm a great money hoarder otherwise I wouldn't have paid off my mortgage decades earlier while saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest in the long run.  If that's throwing my money around, then so be it.  All of our cars were bought used, repaired and maintained courtesy of my handy husband.  Thus far, we've only bought 2 brand new cars and this wasn't until later when we finally achieved financial relief because life finally was on the upswing.  All home repairs and maintenance are again courtesy of my husband.  It's a matter of necessity and it doesn't hurt that he's very well adept at construction, plumbing, electrical, yard work, you name it, he can fix it as he's a 'jack of all trades.'  (Note complete opposite of my helplessly hopeless deadbeat late father.) 

Sure, we take out meals in a pinch on occasion (once a month on the average).  However, we don't habitually take out meals nor dine out regularly simply because we're extremely picky eaters.  This is why we make delicious home cooked meals and subsist on leftovers.  Unlike you, Batya33, we're not apartment tenants so grocery shopping is not inconvenient.  I drive a SUV to my local grocery store and Costco warehouse so my life in suburbia is again, convenient.  I do not walk, I do not rely on public transportation, I do not have to carry bags of groceries on my arm and walk to and from an apartment building.  I have the convenience of having an extra refrigerator and freezer in my garage plus I have extra garage pantry storage as well.  I'm well stocked.  This is why cooking at home is so easy and convenient.  If I were an apartment tenant, I would definitely take out meals more often, dine out more often, pay for services more often, all of it.  Because I'm not an apartment tenant, obviously my lifestyle differs in my quiet residential suburban neighborhood.  Sure, we meet relatives and in-laws at restaurants (pre-pandemic) several times a year and somehow survive the painful agony of it all!  ☹️

I do have a few indulgences though.  I have a few designer handbags, I prefer beautiful, chic clothes and shoes.  I have a penchant for often times expensive, pretty merchandise for my kitchen and house.  I prefer expensive, high quality linens when I sew Euro pillow sham covers for my bed.  I prefer high quality fabrics for my sewing and quilting projects.  That sort of thing.  Heck, I work hard for it so why not?  It's MY money.  My mindset comes from bad memories of only affording to buy from second hand thrift stores after my alcoholic, chain smoking, wife beater late father skipped town with nary a penny of child support for my mother and younger siblings.  When my sons were little, we couldn't afford anything, I never bought anything, nothing, nothing, nothing.  It was always "NO" to everything because we couldn't afford it.  I've done without for so long.  I've paid my dues.  Better late than never, right? 😋😊

Batya33, I don't care what you do, barter, pay for services, take out meals or whatever.  It doesn't involve me so go do it.  I do me and you do you!  🙂😛  It's all good! 

The reason why my husband helps me with EVERYTHING is because I'm forever in my mother-in-law's (MIL) debt.  Ever since my husband was a young boy, he had to take care of his mother, younger siblings and maintain their household because she suffered from killer, debilitating, bedridden, grinding migraine headaches, serious life threatening heart ailments and a host of excruciating arthritic pain while her traveling salesman husband was always on the road.  Even as a young boy, my father-in-law (FIL) asked my husband to "be the man of the house" while he was away.  My husband honorably delivered his moral duties.  (My husband cleaned the house, ran errands, did everything for his mother, etc.)  MIL told me that her pain medications were so potent that if she stepped on broken glass with her bare feet she wouldn't have felt it.  My husband always picked up the slack for his ailing mother and was the quintessential model son because he had to be.  There was no choice.  To pay homage to my MIL, she raised a boy to become a man and I'm his lucky wife who reaped the benefits.  My husband is who he is because helping his mother with EVERYTHING was borne out of necessity.  You don't know the half of it. 

OP, Maria_maria.  As I've already initially said previously several times,  you yourself has to be willing to change if you expect your guy to change for YOU.  If there is no compromise, then obviously you and your guy are free to choose a replacement.  It's not rocket science. 

[Tinydance]

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic but I think when you love someone and you just know they're the right person, it won't bother you that they do XYZ more minor things. I don't mean that bad conversation is minor but some people are still into someone who's very quiet or not great at communicating. My Mum has a dog and walks the dog on the beach every day. There's a woman there she's acquaintances with who is actually very outgoing and talkative. Her husband is quiet, doesn't laugh much, doesn't say much. My Mum said he was boring and "has no personality". But this woman and him love each other and have been together a long time. It was their second marriage and they even both had kids from the first marriage already. Sometimes people just have that spark and the click and it just feels right. One person's trash is another person's treasure, as they say.