Need help with independent woman

[Cherylyn]

Don't be pushy, desperate and insecure.  If she's interested in you, she will let YOU know.  Until then, exude your own self confidence by not pursuing a woman who doesn't share your mutual feelings of attraction ~ on a consistent follow-up basis.  She is not needy as you are.   

She's very independent economically. 

What is your occupation?  Are you very strong financially?  Often times, very successful, prosperous, high income achievers tend to date and marry within their demographics and socioeconomic circle or status. 

Are you out of your league? 

What do you have to offer? 

Dating shouldn't be a game of cat and mouse. 

Get your own life and you will have that draw and attraction from women who will observe YOUR confidence and independence which is extremely attractive along with high moral characteristic traits and integrity. 

[lostandhurt]

There is nothing wrong with calling and asking how her week is going.  Keep it simple and thoughtful.

I have gotten plenty of calls from women I had been on a few dates with that called and said "I was just thinking about you and wanted to see how your day/week is going"  It often times opened the door to more in depth conversations.

 Think about what is attractive and what isn't.

Needy = Unnatractive

Pushy = Unnatractive

Insecure = Unnatractive

The worst thing you can do is the wrong thing.  Sometimes doing nothing is better that the wrong something.  Perhaps a question for the lovely ladies on here would be:  "How can I stay on her mind and increase attraction in between dates"?

Lost

[whiteroses3230]

15 hours ago, Shyguy2021 said:

At this point I would like to see her once a week-10 days , not sure I can wait 2+ weeks again. I’m essentially only going to text her now to setup dates. She told me yesterday she would let me know when she’s free and would let me know for next date. Would it be out of line or pushy to message her Monday or Tuesday with an idea for a date later in the week. I’m trying to respect her schedule but I’m a man I’m going to peruse but not chase her. 
 

I want to reduce the amount of texting, we have been communicating for a month she knows why I’m here. And that’s to setup dates and make memories when we go out 

If that’s what you feel you need to do, okay. That wouldn’t work on me, I don’t think. My love language is words of affirmation and I think plenty of my hot confident female friends love guys who show investment through texting in between dates. I would advise you to keep the spark in between dates so as to not fade out of her mind and so that you have plenty of connection during the in between times. Believe me, women fall in love with words often. Anyway, always text that you had fun after the date. Always. And stop worrying about these male-female dynamics. You obviously like her. Act like it. You already made it to a fourth date, there’s no reason you can’t keep this going. It probably is just gonna take a few months to land this unicorn. But that’s good! That makes this special and worth it. That’s ultimately what we all want. 

[MissCanuck]

17 hours ago, Shyguy2021 said:

i know shes either interested or not i can’t change that at this point, don’t want to be pushy but want to let her know I want to go do fun stuff with her.

She already knows. 

She said she will let you know. Don't be a pest and keep nudging her. If she doesn't follow up, you need to realize that she's not really into it. 

[Ian4996]

6 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

That wouldn’t work on me, I don’t think. My love language is words of affirmation and I think plenty of my hot confident female friends love guys who show investment through texting in between dates

I find some women are very different to others in that respect.

I do quite like a bit of a text banter / flirting myself (for a few minutes, then crack on with my day) but some women just aren't texters and, if they're not, you shouldn't force it. Just use the texting to set up the date and then have the fun on the date itself.

Something that's helped me recently with the whole thing of texting women to set up dates (which I too used to massively overthink) is just to think 'how would I text one of my mates to suggest doing something?'

For me, that would just be 'how do. Fancy a walk this weekend?' or 'fancy a pint one night this week?'. And just text that. Simple as that, no big fuss.  

 

[Batya33]

I'm so glad I didn't have a cell phone when I was dating (yes, I didn't have a flip phone other than for a few weeks in 2003 until I was married and in my third trimester in 2009, didn't get a smart phone till 2015 I believe).  We used IMs and email but I loved having longer phone conversations between dates -every day if we were serious and exclusive on the days we did not see each other- otherwise a few times a week.  This keeping in touch with a new person through texting to me is overblown and kills the mystery, the ability to look forward and devolves into what you had for lunch and building this sense of "intimacy" in quotes.  

Needy and pushy is a turn off and there's a high risk with texting that that will be the impression.  And it promotes anxiety with a new person -why didn't he respond? Why does it say "read" and no response?

No need to tell her you want to do fun stuff -it's redundant.  A person who wants to see you really won't care what you do as long as -for many women who like this, as I did -you have a plan in mind, a time and place.  I was extremely busy for most of the 24 years I dated and dated extremely busy men for the most part.  If we wanted to see each other we made it work. 

Good luck

[Jibralta]

9 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

"I was just thinking about you and wanted to see how your day/week is going"

I think this is a nice, friendly way of keeping communication lines open while not applying pressure on her for the next date--if you're genuine about it, and not just using it as a ruse to secure the next date.

Do you try to pin your guy friends down for your next hang out? Probably not. They'd probably think you were really annoying if you did. Same goes for a girl. 

I keep thinking back to a situation I was in when I was 28, where I met two guys during the same week, 'Tom' and 'Ben.' The first dates with both guys were fine, but for whatever reason, things started rolling more with Tom. 

When Ben called, I usually had plans with Tom already. So, I told Ben that I was busy. Whether Ben assumed that I was seeing someone else or not, I don't know. What I do know is that Ben was gracious, patient, and not pushy at all. When he called, he took the time to talk to me, and he didn't get butthurt when I told him I couldn't see him.

I dated Tom for four months. Even though it wasn't necessarily a committed relationship, Tom and I started to have standing dates. As a result, I didn't see Ben at all during this four month period. But Ben did continue to call occasionally. He was never pushy, just sweet and charming, and genuinely interested.

I think a turning point for me was in month two, when my uncle was in a terrible motorcycle accident and clinging to life support. Ben happened to call that night, and when I told him what had happened, he showed great compassion--more than Tom had. Ben and I ended up talking for a couple hours, and I got to know him better.

I realized that Ben might be a better relationship choice than Tom. But I wasn't just going to dump Tom because I was still getting to know him. It was an awkward situation, and I didn't feel great about it. However, I felt that there was more to learn about Tom, and I wasn't going to change courses over one incident.

I continued to see Tom, but Ben started calling more and more. I actually started talking to Ben almost every day--more than I talked to Tom. Ben showed himself to be a kind, caring person, and hilariously funny. I looked forward to our calls.

My relationship with Tom came to it's natural end in month four. But I didn't just rush right into Ben's arms. I waited another month before seeing him so that I could mentally reset. 

My relationship with Ben lasted for seven months, and then we broke up. Ultimately, we were not compatible. But we did have some good times, and I'll always appreciate how respectful he was of me and my privacy.

These are the kinds of things that happen during multidating. It's a natural process that isn't always convenient to everybody. 

[Jibralta]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

didn't get a smart phone till 2015 I believe

Same here!!

[Andrina]

On 3/26/2021 at 6:20 AM, Shyguy2021 said:

She has told me I have been a better date than others. 

I really don't like the idea that she threw it in your face she's dating others and comparing you to her male harem. You see it as being honest. I always think a person should assume you're multi-dating since you're not exclusive, but it should be a don't ask, don't tell matter, unless you specifically ask because you avoid dating multi-daters. I just see her as saying these things plus being negative about the age difference as someone who could care less if you walk away after knowing these things about her.

After I had several dates with a guy, I asked what his dating style was. I remember I stopped dating one guy because he said he multi-dated and it took him a really long time to decide to be exclusive with someone. I'm okay with multi-dating, but when it's for a long period, you know the person is kissing more than one, and possibly being intimate. If I'm kissing a guy, I'm really not comfortable with him kissing other women, so I tended to stick with dating guys who matched how I liked to date.

I did once date a guy who I found was a workaholic and was always too tired to do much. I learned a lot from these guys who I didn't want for a lifetime companion.

I see you're a person like me who likes seeing a romantic interest at least a few times a week, and someone who's  kissing me alone.

I know you want to give this more time, but if the same frustrating pattern continues, please cut bait, no matter how sexy she is. Because the secret to relationship happiness is to cut loose people who are incompatible in major ways, leaving you free to meet a better partner for yourself.

I know it worked for me. After sifting through all that sand, I finally found the treasure.

[Shyguy2021]

It’s really hitting me now how I never let her begin a conversation first over text, I have texted her everyday the last 2 weeks. She was always very receptive when we spoke. I didn’t blow her up or come on too strong. I know when people arnt trying to talk and she always responded with details if that makes sense. The only time she has hit me first is 2 days after first date and me getting her number, she invited me out. 
 

I’ll call her in a week and check in on her, I have to pull back for my own health. I know it shouldn’t be hard to get to know someone and that there are other people out there. Even if it’s not mutual, she is the most beautiful person I have ever met inside and out. 
 

im still healing from a bad period of depression, I have finally gotten my self care and health figured out. Healing and meeting such a special person has been hard. But I know something could become of it if I live my life free of attachment and am more open to what the universe has to offer. 
 

I really feel like there is a good bit of interest, she may not be the type to text first especially since she is busy. I just don’t know if I should give up and wait on her  or try and stay an active part of her life even though I text first. 
 

 

[MissCanuck]

19 minutes ago, Shyguy2021 said:

I’ll call her in a week and check in on her, I have to pull back for my own health. I know it shouldn’t be hard to get to know someone and that there are other people out there. Even if it’s not mutual, she is the most beautiful person I have ever met inside and out. 

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself and building up your expectations too much. 

It's been 4 dates. You hardly know her. What are you basing your grand assessment on, exactly? She might be a lovely woman, yes, but the reality is that there is still a lot you naturally don't know about her. Your high hopes are filling in the blanks but you actually know little about her as a person. 

Keep both feet on the ground here, Shyguy. 

[Unsure2021]

Sorry, I don’t think she’s that into you. I had the same thing happen, dating a guy who texted me everyday, while I’m super busy with work, which I made clear to him. The guy was super clingy and called me out on why I wasn’t texting him first ever. The answer is that one, he does it so much, I never get the opportunity, two I’m too busy and three I actually hate texting and his clinging. While I initially made some texting efforts, I realized it was never enough for him because he was so much more into me than I was into him, so I dumped him. Moral of the story, cool your jets, back off or you’ll lose her.

[boltnrun]

You're way too attached to a woman who you've only gone on 4 dates with, who has been clear she's multi-dating.  Have you already decided she's "THE ONE"?  And based on what?  Her physical beauty?  Her unattainability?

There used to be a young woman who posted on this forum frequently a couple of years ago.  Every single man she met, she was "very excited" about and decided he was going to be her new boyfriend.  She started envisioning her life with him, where they would live, who would move in with who, the whole shebang.  And when she got to know him better and the reality didn't live up to the fantasy she'd created in her mind she was deeply, profoundly disappointed.  She almost went into a depression every time.  And no one could convince her to slow her roll.  

Are you truly able to check your hopes and expectations?  I don't know if you're seeing this woman as the light at the end of a depressed tunnel, but she's just a woman you've dated a few times.  She is not the answer to everything.  If you keep building her up this way I guarantee you'll end up disappointed.  She can't possibly live up to a fantasy and really, it's not fair to expect her to do so.

Please try to temper your excitement and expectations.  I would go ahead with calling her once a week to say hello, how's your week going, but if you get a lukewarm response or she doesn't follow through with telling you when she's available for a date I'd just conclude she's not the right woman for you.

And that mindset is key; if it doesn't work out SHE IS NOT THE RIGHT WOMAN FOR YOU.  Not that you're lacking in some way or you "played" it wrong or you did something offensive.  She just plain wouldn't be right for you.

[Wiseman2]

36 minutes ago, VERONICAL said:

I came to find out that there was a lot of things I AM TOO STUPID TO REALIZE🤡🤢🦄

 

[lostandhurt]

Relax and call her next week on Wednesday.  Far enough into the week to ask how her week is going and far enough away from the weekend just in case.

  For sure stay busy and make plans, call friends, clean your house, go for a walk AND keep trying to meet other women!!!

You will survive no matter what happens.  Do your best to stay busy and keep telling yourself "I attracted her so I can attract other women like her"

Lost

[Shyguy2021]

15 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

Relax and call her next week on Wednesday.  Far enough into the week to ask how her week is going and far enough away from the weekend just in case.

  For sure stay busy and make plans, call friends, clean your house, go for a walk AND keep trying to meet other women!!!

You will survive no matter what happens.  Do your best to stay busy and keep telling yourself "I attracted her so I can attract other women like her"

Lost

Should I wait a full week+ to call? Or do you think Wednesday(5 days)would be better. I want to let her contact me first but don’t want to let things die down.  
 

I have seen some people say text here stay on her mind and others say wait 1+weeks and not text or call at all. I want to see her show some effort so I know she’s interested 

[boltnrun]

She's not going to be counting the days.

Just call her when you have a few minutes.  And try to stop overthinking every little thing or you'll get yourself into a frenzy.  This is supposed to be enjoyable, remember?

[lostandhurt]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

She's not going to be counting the days.

Just call her when you have a few minutes.  And try to stop overthinking every little thing or you'll get yourself into a frenzy.  This is supposed to be enjoyable, remember?

Exactly !!!  Well said.

You really need to relax on this.  You act like your life depends on this one woman.

I don't think you digested what I said.  Stay busy with your life and the time will take care of itself.  You want to be interesting right?  Then do interesting things.  Lets say you do call her in several days and ask how her week is going, she responds and asks you what you have been up to.  Your answer cannot be "sitting around worrying if you had forgotten about me and stressing when to text you"

  I am not a woman but I know enough to tell you the way you are thinking is very unattractive and if this woman is perceptive she is picking up on your desperation.  She may really like you but if the air is full of desperation not matter how you try and hide it she will notice.

 Make plans after work to do SOMETHING.  Short hike, ride your bike, go buy a good book, visit your mom or anything but do something.  You are way to deep into your own head.

Lost

[whiteroses3230]

Personally if a guy I’m interested in doesn’t text me for more than like 2 days I start to lose interest. But that’s me, I’m very into words. I like to engage in between dates. Doesn’t have to be a ton, but stimulate me. I also like a guy who initiates a lot. Idk man, I don’t think you have much to lose by staying your course. You aren’t her main guy now, worse case you won’t be after some more dates. Talking to her in an interesting way and setting up more dates could only benefit you. Just saying what works for me and lots of my friends. Definitely don’t wait a week or more would be my advice! But you of course have to make your own decision given the vibe. I just don’t see anything that negative happening here at all. This is a fairly common dating occurrence in my circles for a higher value chick. You’re doing fine really. If she doesn’t wanna see you she will stop contacting you back. That hasn’t happened. Why change up the pattern of what you were doing? It was working. That would be silly. 

[whiteroses3230]

20 hours ago, Ian4996 said:

I find some women are very different to others in that respect.

I do quite like a bit of a text banter / flirting myself (for a few minutes, then crack on with my day) but some women just aren't texters and, if they're not, you shouldn't force it. Just use the texting to set up the date and then have the fun on the date itself.

Something that's helped me recently with the whole thing of texting women to set up dates (which I too used to massively overthink) is just to think 'how would I text one of my mates to suggest doing something?'

For me, that would just be 'how do. Fancy a walk this weekend?' or 'fancy a pint one night this week?'. And just text that. Simple as that, no big fuss.  

 

I agree to an extent! Texts can be fun/sexy little check ins. Thinking of you’s. Jokes. They don’t have to go on and on. But I do like them and find them stimulating between dates and they are nice quick ways to show investment (without even being needy!) I’ve never heard otherwise from my friends who are dating. But if she’s dating other guys I would assume they are texting in between dates so it would probably put the poster at a disadvantage to disappear off her mind between dates entirely I would think. 

[Jibralta]

6 hours ago, Shyguy2021 said:

Should I wait a full week+ to call? Or do you think Wednesday(5 days)would be better. I want to let her contact me first but don’t want to let things die down. 

On 3/26/2021 at 3:19 AM, Shyguy2021 said:

I didn’t get to see her for 16 days and it was hard to keep the spark spark alive but I pulled it off and had an amazing 4th date with her tonight

I don't think the number of days that you wait to call her is a critical factor in your success with this girl. She's most likely not counting, especially if she's busy. Personal space and respect are more important. You have already seen that the connection remained alive after 16 days of not seeing her. Have some faith in your own self worth. A couple of days is not going to make a difference. 

I wrote about one of my own experiences multidating in my above post. My connection with Ben lost momentum for a little while (way longer than 16 days!), but it did not just vanish. I simply had other things to focus on in my life that were frankly none of his business after a couple weeks of knowing him.

If he'd tried to rush me into dating him, it never would have happened. He would have seemed desperate, pushy, and selfish, and I would have shut that door firmly. And it's not that I don't like frequent communication--I actually prefer it in a relationship. But it's not necessary or appropriate when there isn't a relationship yet. The two of you are still merely options in each other's lives. Represent yourself as a good option for her, not some trap ready to spring.

[Shyguy2021]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

I don't think the number of days that you wait to call her is a critical factor in your success with this girl. She's most likely not counting, especially if she's busy. Personal space and respect are more important. You have already seen that the connection remained alive after 16 days of not seeing her. Have some faith in your own self worth. A couple of days is not going to make a difference. 

I wrote about one of my own experiences multidating in my above post. My connection with Ben lost momentum for a little while (way longer than 16 days!), but it did not just vanish. I simply had other things to focus on in my life that were frankly none of his business after a couple weeks of knowing him.

If he'd tried to rush me into dating him, it never would have happened. He would have seemed desperate, pushy, and selfish, and I would have shut that door firmly. And it's not that I don't like frequent communication--I actually prefer it in a relationship. But it's not necessary or appropriate when there isn't a relationship yet. The two of you are still merely options in each other's lives. Represent yourself as a good option for her, not some trap ready to spring.

I want to send a cute text to her this morning telling her to have a great day and leave it at that then call her Wednesday. You think that would be a good idea, or just leave it so there’s a little mystery to where I have been or what I’m doing 
 

Edit: Well I texted her told her good morning I wanted to be the first to make her smile have a great Monday. 

[Ian4996]

4 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

I agree to an extent! Texts can be fun/sexy little check ins. Thinking of you’s. Jokes. They don’t have to go on and on. But I do like them and find them stimulating between dates and they are nice quick ways to show investment (without even being needy!) I’ve never heard otherwise from my friends who are dating. But if she’s dating other guys I would assume they are texting in between dates so it would probably put the poster at a disadvantage to disappear off her mind between dates entirely I would think. 

That's the thing, everyone's different. I'm in the early stages of dating 2 different women at the mo (only very early stages, so no reason not to be multi-dating at the mo).

One is like you - loves the daily text back and forths, the regular check ins etc. The other is much more like the woman the OP is describing - hardly texts, replies to a message the following day rather than having 'text banter', but when we've actually video chatted and met up, we've got on great. So I might send her the occasional funny thing or bit of banter (I'm not saying 'never text full stop' just to be clear) but, generally, I mirror her texting style.

Problem is, what the OP is describing sounds like a very one-sided text exchange, and I don't think that's a good thing at all.   

[boltnrun]

2 hours ago, Shyguy2021 said:

so there’s a little mystery to where I have been or what I’m doing 

Where have you been and what have you been doing?

I hope you did more than stress about how many days you should wait to call her or if you should send a text so she won't "forget" about you.

What things do you do when you're not working?  Will you have things to tell her about when you call her?

[Blacksheep09]

Why would you "try not to chase her"? If she's a catch like you say then it's up to you to show her why she should pick you. Consistency is key. Women will look for confidence in a man and if the man is easily spooked by a women who is smart, beautiful and highly sought after it's unattractive and shows he's lazy and not willing to go after what he wants. 

Women are like apples on trees. The best ones are at the top of the tree. The men don’t want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they just get the rotten apples from the ground that aren’t as good, but easy.

So the apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, THEY’RE amazing. They just have to wait for the right man to come along, the one who’s brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree.