I need your advice regarding silent treatments and deciding whether I was wrong

[sosolaila89]

No one can answer these questions. If he doesn't come back tomorrow or the day after it means...he did not come back tomorrow or the day after. To know it's "never" you'll have to wait "forever" and you can update us in 50 years.

 

I don't mean that to sound flip. He's got you out of your mind right now, your logic distorted. I'm not that rich, but I'd confidently put $10,000 on him coming back. He'll do it..when he feels like it.

 

He is not thinking about you right now, at least not the way you're thinking about him. Probably he rarely thinks about you in the way you think about him, and what makes moments like this hard is that they highlight that—the massive divide between you two that you sometimes think is just a slight crack.

 

I've heard that one a lot. Betting that he will come back. Your advice is making tons of sense to me and I appreciate you breaking it down for me. Sometimes I just need reassurance. I'm sorry if I sound super annoying.

[bluecastle]

You don't sound super annoying.

 

I'm not going to sugarcoat: my heart is breaking for you a bit, especially when you say you've "heard that one a lot." Must mean you panic a lot, feel the way you do a lot. Being into someone who is dominant—liking some of those qualities—doesn't mean having to feel like this. Not on the regular, not ever.

 

I'm not certain, like Katrina said, that he's feeling powerful right now. I don't think he's thinking much of anything, to be honest, at least when it comes to you. I don't think he's really capable of that—of understanding that you are, like him, a person. I don't think he sees people as people—more like things that can either hurt him or make that hurt go away.

 

That's how children think of adults, you know? When the teenager shouts "I hate you, mom!" and slams the door shut he doesn't care about his mother, as a person with feelings. He cares only about himself, his feelings. He is a selfish monster, as teenagers are allowed to be. Those who don't grow up and out of that—well, they can be pretty monstrous to be around.

[MissCanuck]

Has he cheated on you before, OP?

[sosolaila89]

You don't sound super annoying.

 

I'm not going to sugarcoat: my heart is breaking for you a bit, especially when you say you've "heard that one a lot." Must mean you panic a lot, feel the way you do a lot. Being into someone who is dominant—liking some of those qualities—doesn't mean having to feel like this. Not on the regular, not ever.

 

I'm not certain, like Katrina said, that he's feeling powerful right now. I don't think he's thinking much of anything, to be honest, at least when it comes to you. I don't think he's really capable of that—of understanding that you are, like him, a person. I don't think he sees people as people—more like things that can either hurt him or make that hurt go away.

 

That's how children think of adults, you know? When the teenager shouts "I hate you, mom!" and slams the door shut he doesn't care about his mother, as a person with feelings. He cares only about himself, his feelings. He is a selfish monster, as teenagers are allowed to be. Those who don't grow up and out of that—well, they can be pretty monstrous to be around.

 

Anytime he does wrong, when he calms down, he apologizes. He cries in my arms, soaks my shirt up begging for forgiveness. Tells me this is the reason why his relationships never work out because he can't get it together. That he loves me but doesn't know how to show it. He tells me he just freaks out and wants to so badly be normal but his anger gets to him. That he admits he's a control freak. He begs for me not to leave him and that he knows he's not easy to deal with but he's trying.

 

If I cry, he can't take it. He quickly calms down and holds me and tells me he's an a-hole. He can't stand to see me upset but if I'm not by him, and he can't see how upset I am, it's the best way for him to be in denial that he's hurting me. If that makes any sense. When I'm in front of him, he can't avoid my pain. When I'm away from him, he can without feeling as bad as he would in person. His family used to have to hold him down and calm him down because he would freak out anytime I wasn't talking to him or if he had a fear that I was leaving him.

 

I just don't know what to think anymore. I really truly feel he loves me, in his own way. I don't feel that he doesn't care about me. I feel that he pretends he doesn't to avoid having to "feel" anything. He seems to think acting tough gets him a long way. He even does it to everyone, not just me. His boss, his family, his friends. Anyone he comes in contact with. He feels he has something to prove to the world. That he has to react a certain way to show someone that they're not going to walk all over him even if they aren't trying to.

 

I asked him why he doesn't take his Seroquel all the time like he should. He said because when he's on it, it blocks him from reacting. That he's forced to back down. That sometimes he wants to verbally attack his boss or whoever because he feels they walk all over him when he's medicated. He says that no one approaches him with disrespect or takes him as a joke when he's off meds. I told him that he doesn't need to prove to the world that he's tough. That he just looks like a bully. I told him that life isn't easy and it's one hard battle but if you allow life and people to get the best of you, you'll never change. He agrees at that moment, but when he gets into one of his other episodes where he thinks everyone is out to get him, back to square one he goes.

[sosolaila89]

Has he cheated on you before, OP?

 

No, he has never cheated on me.

[katrina1980]

Anytime he does wrong, when he calms down, he apologizes. He cries in my arms, soaks my shirt up begging for forgiveness. Tells me this is the reason why his relationships never work out because he can't get it together. That he loves me but doesn't know how to show it. He tells me he just freaks out and wants to so badly be normal but his anger gets to him. That he admits he's a control freak. He begs for me not to leave him and that he knows he's not easy to deal with but he's trying.

 

 

Yeah pretty standard stuff among abusers sosol. Have you read up on abusive relationships? Emotionally, mentally and physically? If not please do.

 

I don't say this to hurt you, but his behaviour as described above, is not reflective of how special your relationship is or your love is.

 

What it's reflective of is he is very very damaged and doesn't know how to love.

 

And he never will unless and until he gets some professional help.

 

Please know your continuing to forgive him and take him back with zero consequences is not helping him, you're enabling him and that is actually hurting him.

 

Anyway, nuff said from me, again best of luck.

[reinventmyself]

Tomorrow is the 4th of July. We originally had plans tomorrow, this is why he came back from Wisconsin and took a week off to spend it with me. Now the silent treatment. If he doesn't come back tomorrow or day after, would that mean he never will? Or that doesn't necessarily mean anything?

 

You need to set a basic standard for yourself on what you will tolerate and be clear about it.

Maybe this is a good place to start. When ever you find yourself in this position - asking if he'll ever even return. .if you find yourself wondering this - this is where you call it.

Because from all that you've shared, this is how you two operate. It's not going to change, especially when you consider his emotional challenges.

You either except that this is what you've agreed to, or your decide it no longer works for you.

Staying in the middle of it, suffering isn't acceptable anymore.

The way this stands, this relationship is not viable.

[bluecastle]

I really don't know what to say.

 

Why would he bother changing if you don't bother changing? What he's doing right now works. I mean, he even makes his doing "wrong" by you about, well, him. How messed up he is, how damaged, how he's trying his best, how mommy did X, grammy did Y. And you hold him in your arms and stroke his hair. You tell him about how hard it is in the world, and he says he knows, agrees to take on the business of living in the world differently, then does nothing differently.

 

And you hold him in your arms, stroke his hair.

 

This is your relationship. It's not a bump in the road before things turn a corner. This is it. Seven years. It'll be seven more, seventy more, exactly like this. A step forward here, a step back there, all roads leading to this. Basically sounds like he hates himself a thousand times more than he loves himself, that he looks in the mirror and sees a self-hating control freak a-hole, and that he's more interested in supporting that idea of himself than growing out of it.

 

And in you he has a perfect mirror in which he can continue to see himself as deranged, because the mirror is always there. You reward his derangement, coddle it. He spits in your face—maybe not literally—and you calmly wipe it away, take him into your arms, and apologize that mommy and grammy were so bad to him.

 

Unspoken here, at least not directly, is where your sex life fits into all this. Do these episodes lead to explosive sex? If so, that's another reward—for both of you, one that conditions both of you to start equating not just emotional intimacy, but also physical intimacy, with pain and drama.

[sosolaila89]

I really don't know what to say.

 

Why would he bother changing if you don't bother changing? What he's doing right now works. I mean, he even makes his doing "wrong" by you about, well, him. How messed up he is, how damaged, how he's trying his best, how mommy did X, grammy did Y. And you hold him in your arms and stroke his hair. You tell him about how hard it is in the world, and he says he knows, agrees to take on the business of living in the world differently, then does nothing differently.

 

And you hold him in your arms, stroke his hair.

 

This is your relationship. It's not a bump in the road before things turn a corner. This is it. Seven years. It'll be seven more, seventy more, exactly like this. A step forward here, a step back there, all roads leading to this. Basically sounds like he hates himself a thousand times more than he loves himself, that he looks in the mirror and sees a self-hating control freak a-hole, and that he's more interested in supporting that idea of himself than growing out of it.

 

And in you he has a perfect mirror in which he can continue to see himself as deranged, because the mirror is always there. You reward his derangement, coddle it. He spits in your face—maybe not literally—and you calmly wipe it away, take him into your arms, and apologize that mommy and grammy were so bad to him.

 

Unspoken here, at least not directly, is where your sex life fits into all this. Do these episodes lead to explosive sex? If so, that's another reward—for both of you, one that conditions both of you to start equating not just emotional intimacy, but also physical intimacy, with pain and drama.

 

Sex is amazing between us. Yes, after not talking and fighting, it’s even more amazing. Literally, everything is amazing until he pulls the silent treatment.

[katrina1980]

Wow bluecastle, your last post -- that was well said!

 

sosol, did you watch HBO's "Big Little Lies, Part 1"? If not, I highly recommend you do.

 

I think you will see a lot of yourself in Celeste and a lot of your bf in Perry.

 

Their relationship began as emotional abuse as well, the silent treatments, him sobbing upon his return, begging, pleading for forgiveness.

 

He, admittedly, was very damaged, struggling with many demons; Celeste always took him back, they got married, and not surprisingly the mental abuse escalated to physical, and it was BAD.

 

But she continued to forgive him, take him back, things would be good for awhile and then lather, rinse, repeat.

 

She (they) finally sought help as a couple, and she was eventually able to break away.

 

I won't tell you the ending in case you want to see it, but the movie received high praise from critics and was deemed one of most powerful and honest portrayals of an abusive relationship ever written.

 

Sex is amazing between us. Yes, after not talking and fighting, it’s even more amazing. Literally, everything is amazing until he pulls the silent treatment.

 

Of course it is!! Celeste and Perry's sex was amazing too, very powerful. In fact, it was the abuse and dysfunction itself that led to such powerful, amazing sex. That's the hook!

 

It's all related, all linked together.

 

Anyway, I hope you get to watch it and learn something from it -- I sure did!!

[reinventmyself]

google `intermittent reinforcement'

 

It's what makes casino's profitable. You keep investing your quarters and pulling the lever until it stops. You can't walk away because you have invested so much. Just one more pull. You are almost bankrupt trying to get it to pay off and then when it does you are elated!

 

You don't want to do the math correctly because if you did, you'd realize you are still invested with little return. But you ride the high nonetheless (hence the great make up sex) until the next time the machine goes dry. And then you wait again.

 

Intermittent reinforcement also applies to an unhealthy relationship dynamic

Yours fits.

[katrina1980]

google `intermittent reinforcement'

 

It's what makes casino's profitable. You keep investing your quarters and pulling the lever until it stops. You can't walk away because you have invested so much. Just one more pull. You are almost bankrupt trying to get it to pay off. And then when it does you are elated. You don't want to do the math correctly because if you did, you'd realize you are still invested with little return. But you ride the high nonetheless until the next time the machine goes dry. And then you wait again.

 

Intermittent reinforcement applies to an unhealthy dynamic in a relationship.

Yours fits.

 

In a word, addiction. A very serious addiction.

 

Your drug of choice sosol? Your boyfriend.

[sosolaila89]

Idk what to say. I feel like I’m going to have a panic attack. I have no words left. I was fine at work. Now that I’m out of work and off for the next 4 days, my mind is wandering and anxiety is piling up.

[sosolaila89]

Another question, why when he does this, he calls me off fake numbers?? He will admit it to me too. “Hey you know I called you off like 10 different fake numbers?” I’ll ask why and he says “idk.”

[katrina1980]

Idk what to say. I feel like I’m going to have a panic attack. I have no words left. I was fine at work. Now that I’m out of work and off for the next 4 days, my mind is wandering and anxiety is piling up.

 

You're experiencing withdrawal symptoms. Just like a drug addict experiences when he can't have his drug.

 

Withdrawal from any "drug" is a bytch, went through it myself when I broke up with my ex, who was my drug of choice.

 

Please seek help soso, otherwise this is your life.

[Wiseman2]

You've been together 7 Years. You know he has untreated mental illness.

Another question, why when he does this, he calls me off fake numbers?? He will admit it to me too. “Hey you know I called you off like 10 different fake numbers?” I’ll ask why and he says “idk.”

[bluecastle]

Another question, why when he does this, he calls me off fake numbers?? He will admit it to me too. “Hey you know I called you off like 10 different fake numbers?” I’ll ask why and he says “idk.”

 

His whole thing—and this is not conscious, which is why it's dangerous—is to keep you off-kilter. Not just you, everyone, per what you said about how he handles himself professionally. That brings people to his level—which is off-kilter—and so it brings comfort, much like people who are on drugs prefer to be around people who are also on drugs. It's not deep, I'm sorry. It's just damage. Reward damage and you get more damage.

 

You are understandably eager to find logic to it: to connect the dots of childhood trauma with the dots of some awful behavior with the dots of your own upbringing, desires. That provides you with some sense of control—even power, to go back to your original post—and power and control bring us comfort, even when its an illusion.

 

Power and control are always illusions. Your "read" on him might well be pretty accurate, but that doesn't negate your pain. Or his damage. It's just a story, stories also being a way we try to assert control.

 

The panic you feel? That's the illusion revealing itself as just that, the story unraveling a bit, a deeper, harder truth—a truer story, you could say—asking to be seen. You've seen it before, I'm sure. But not for four days. By now, in the past, he's cried in your arms or ripped your clothes off and the story is made true again.

 

Deep breaths. Good news here? This is what it's always been, no worse, no better. This is what you're in. Whether this is a moment that makes you consider being in something else—well, I think considering that might quell the panic, and bring about something like self-empowerment rather than the illusory "power" you're seeking and withdrawing from.

[sosolaila89]

His whole thing—and this is not conscious, which is why it's dangerous—is to keep you off-kilter. Not just you, everyone, per what you said about how he handles himself professionally. That brings people to his level—which is off-kilter—and so it brings comfort, much like people who are on drugs prefer to be around people who are also on drugs. It's not deep, I'm sorry. It's just damage. Reward damage and you get more damage.

 

You are understandably eager to find logic to it: to connect the dots of childhood trauma with the dots of some awful behavior with the dots of your own upbringing, desires. That provides you with some sense of control—even power, to go back to your original post—and power and control bring us comfort, even when its an illusion.

 

Power and control are always illusions. Your "read" on him might well be pretty accurate, but that doesn't negate your pain. Or his damage. It's just a story, stories also being a way we try to assert control.

 

The panic you feel? That's the illusion revealing itself as just that, the story unraveling a bit, a deeper, harder truth—a truer story, you could say—asking to be seen. You've seen it before, I'm sure. But not for four days. By now, in the past, he's cried in your arms or ripped your clothes off and the story is made true again.

 

Deep breaths. Good news here? This is what it's always been, no worse, no better. This is what you're in. Whether this is a moment that makes you consider being in something else—well, I think considering that might quell the panic, and bring about something like self-empowerment rather than the illusory "power" you're seeking and withdrawing from.

 

HEs done it for 2 months. That’s the longest. Lately, it’s been a few hours to a few days.

[bluecastle]

He has gone two months without speaking to you?

[sosolaila89]

He has gone two months without speaking to you?

 

In the past, yes. It’s because his mom has always tried breaking us up. He ended up calling me on his bday.

 

Right now, it’s been 4 days.

[katrina1980]

Another question, why when he does this, he calls me off fake numbers?? He will admit it to me too. “Hey you know I called you off like 10 different fake numbers?” I’ll ask why and he says “idk.”

 

I recall a thread about just this from a few months ago or maybe longer. Like exactly. A woman's boyfriend breaking up and then calling her from fake numbers.

 

Did you used to be a member under a different username?

 

I dunno, maybe it's some new things guys do.

 

In any event, it sounds like a total mind f***. I think I even posted that on that other thread.

[sosolaila89]

I recall a thread about just this from a few months ago or maybe longer. Like exactly. A woman's boyfriend breaking up and then calling her from fake numbers.

 

Did you used to be a member under a different username?

 

I dunno, maybe it's some new things guys do.

 

In any event, it sounds like a total mind f***. I think I even posted that on that other thread.

 

No, I’ve never been on this site before.

[bluecastle]

In the past, yes. It’s because his mom has always tried breaking us up. He ended up calling me on his bday.

 

Right now, it’s been 4 days.

 

Well, again, I'm kind of at a loss.

 

If you've gone two months, what's four days? If this is the jam, this is the jam.

 

But something that caught my eye above: His going two months without speaking to you has noting to do with his mother trying to "break us up." It's because...he chose to not speak to you. For whatever reason. No point making excuses for him, or looking to blame someone else for how he treats you. That's not how it works.

 

He treats you how he treats you—be it kindly or like sh*t—because that's the choice he made, just like you get to choose if that behavior works for you, of if this relationship works.

[katrina1980]

sosol, what is your history before this guy? Have you ever been in a relationship that wasn't littered with all this chaos, uncertainty and anxiety?

 

If so, what did that feel like? Were you happy? Did you feel safe? Or were you bored? Uninterested?

 

How long did it last?

 

I am getting the sense that all this uncertainty and chaos is appealing to you on some level.

 

Perhaps even preferred to a more stable relationship with a man who is consistent and predictable. Otherwise, why would you stay for seven years?

 

I am not judging you if that is the case, again it goes back to what's familiar to you. What's comfortable for you.

 

I know that there are many people in this world who do prefer chaos to stable. They thrive on it, it stimulates them and makes them feel alive, and if it ever does become stable and predictable, one or both will intentionally act in ways to stir the pot and cause the chaos they so crave.

 

As for the anxiety it causes? Well, even that is preferred to the "nothingness" they feel in a more stable predicable relationship.

 

People who feel this way tend to gravitate to each other, and together create the type of dynamic you and boyfriend have created.

 

That's why I am hesitant to advise you to leave. First off I know you won't so what's the point, but second and perhaps more importantly, it's possible you actually like this dynamic.

 

Otherwise, again, why would you stay for seven years?

[itsallgrand]

Have you checked out any of the schizophrenia support organizations in your area?

It might help you to see things from another perspective. It's not only for those who are diagnosed, but also those who love someone who has been.

Some of the behaviors you listed are quite common to the illness. It's extremely common too for med skipping to happen.

I think being as informed as possible is always a good thing. I think too you are personalizing a lot that is not personal, but related to the illness.

Well let me know what you think?