How do I ask for an open marriage?

[MissCanuck]

He has been there for me through some tough situations, and he claims that he'd be dead if not for me. That last piece... it sounds romantic but I know he means it. He suffers from suicidal depression. It has become worse over time, starting with events that happened with his job shortly before we married, after we got engaged.

 

No, it doesn't sound romantic at all. It sounds very unhealthy, and a lot of emotional responsibility to bear.

 

An open marriage would be really, really unwise under the circumstances of your marriage, OP. You two have significant issues to work though. Adding the element of sexual liberties with others - and the confusing emotions that could very well provoke - is going to make things worse.

 

Your husband's current emotional state and the dynamic between you two are not solid enough at present to withstand the risks associated with an open marriage. It won't be worth the chaos that is almost sure to unfold here.

[thisisrichey]

All you can do is talk about it again. I think it's obvious you both are curious and interested in giving it a try. So the next time it comes up talk about it more seriously and "i think we both will kick ourselves later if we didn't at least give this a try and see how we feel about it."

On his concerns, you can allevaite by saying you'll be his "wingman" and help him find people (say on dating sites, be on the lookout yourself for people yo know he'd be attracted to, put out on ad outlining exactly what you are looking for, etc.) Offer to reassure the women he's interested in that it is OKAY with you and that it is because you both have agreed to have an open marriage.

 

As far as his jealousies.. well, he'll just hav to deal with that. If he can imagine himself inside somebody else, he's going to have to be okay with somebody else being inside of you. That's the deal. If there is any hesitation at all by either - then you should drop it for good (and make sure when you talk about it that if it just seems it'll make things worse than better - that you agree to drop it for good).

 

Good luck. and..where do you live? lol.. j/k

[abitbroken]

All you can do is talk about it again. I think it's obvious you both are curious and interested in giving it a try. So the next time it comes up talk about it more seriously and "i think we both will kick ourselves later if we didn't at least give this a try and see how we feel about it."

On his concerns, you can allevaite by saying you'll be his "wingman" and help him find people (say on dating sites, be on the lookout yourself for people yo know he'd be attracted to, put out on ad outlining exactly what you are looking for, etc.) Offer to reassure the women he's interested in that it is OKAY with you and that it is because you both have agreed to have an open marriage.

 

As far as his jealousies.. well, he'll just hav to deal with that. If he can imagine himself inside somebody else, he's going to have to be okay with somebody else being inside of you. That's the deal. If there is any hesitation at all by either - then you should drop it for good (and make sure when you talk about it that if it just seems it'll make things worse than better - that you agree to drop it for good).

 

Good luck. and..where do you live? lol.. j/k

 

Did you even read what the OP came back and wrote about her past sexual abuse history before you gave this advice??

[Aeryn22]

I hadn’t thought about my desire for an open relationship as an attempt to escape an unsatisfying marriage. To be fair, I have been in favor of one ever since before we married, back when we were deliriously happy with each other and didn’t have the financial problems we have now. So I don’t think that it is the only reason for me to want one. I fully believe that humans aren’t meant to be monogamous. It is my fault for not making sure that we were clear on that point before we married, I realize that now. I set it aside for a while, waiting for my husband to come around to it. He has told me before that he was working on getting used to the idea of it. But I wonder if the reason that I am feeling so strongly right now that I want to push for it has to do with different reasons than my original reasons for asking for it.

 

I don’t generally feel like my marriage is horrible, I’ve never found myself looking at another man and wishing I was in a relationship with him instead of my husband. Like I said, for the most part I am happy. Part of the reason for wanting this now is that we are both looking at going back to school. Considering that I am so attracted to younger men, I knew I would be facing a lot of temptation. I have a magnet on my fridge that says “I can resist anything except temptation” so that should give you an idea. Like I said, I haven’t cheated on him in the past. But I have been sorely tempted. Tempted to the point that if the man in those situations had actually propositioned me, instead of just flirting a lot, I don’t know what I would have done. I don’t know that I would have had enough control.

 

Wiseman, you said that I have a huge role in the mothering, smothering, etc. What makes you think that? I have always encouraged my husband to be independent, learn to do things on his own, go hang out with his own friends, etc. It seems like generally he just doesn’t want to. He’s happy to have me take the reins and he’s happy to spend all of his time with me. In situations that were important and time-sensitive, such as finding a new job so we actually have enough income, or finding a new place to live so we’re not on the streets, I try to get him involved and encourage him to look on his own. But he doesn’t. He will be sort of interested in seeing what I found, but won’t go searching on his own. I have to take action to prevent bad things from happening. He went straight from his parents’ house to living with me, so I think he just never grew up and learned how to do things on his own. Now that he knows I am capable, he is happy to let me do it. He has straight up told me before that he isn’t interested in learning about our budget, he’d rather just have me tell him how much money he has to spend and let me take care of budgeting, paying the bills, etc.

 

I apologize that I didn’t mention it in my last post, I was in a hurry. But I have attended counseling on my own for my past sexual abuse, unhappiness, etc. I’ve never had satisfactory results from it, almost everything they ever say to me is not useful or is something I’ve already thought about on my own. And truthfully, I don’t think the past sexual abuse is as big of an issue as it might seem from the outside. I was very young when it happened and I don’t remember it. The best advice I got was from my last visit, when the therapist told me that I should go back to school and not just let my husband do it, if that’s what I want. I’ve wanted to go back to school for 5 years but always put it off. But once I started thinking about going back to school, all of this mess came up.

We do live pretty frugally, and I have never told my husband that he is a financial burden, he said it about himself. We don’t eat out much, we have home cooked meals and I shop the sales and make enough for leftovers to eat for lunch. We rarely ever buy new clothes, we get what we need from thrift stores. I don’t get my hair dyed or my nails manicured. We live in pretty much the lowest priced apartment that we could find in our city without going into an unsafe/unsanitary/unpleasant living situation. We do, sadly, have 2 car payments and we can’t get rid of either one right now because one is leased and we are underwater on the other one. It was a huge mistake, we just didn’t expect to have to replace both of our 20+ year old cars within 12 months. In a little over a year we can get rid of the leased car and we plan to do that and find a cheaper car to help cut costs.

 

We don’t particularly have the money to pay for couple’s counseling right now. The therapist I was seeing was a free perk from my employer, but it wouldn’t work for couple’s counseling. I’m not sure what else to do… I'm quite confused about all of this. I wonder if I am even overreacting. I love my husband. I wish he was more independent/less needy. I wish I didn't feel like I had to support him emotionally. But wanting to sleep with a younger man does not mean I want to date or marry a younger man. I straight up told my husband not that long ago that I wouldn't want to be responsible for helping another man "find himself" and mature into a suitable spouse. It is true. I'm not trying to ignore what you all have told me, and I am thinking very hard about it. I just wonder if the pieces of my marriage that I am unhappy with are really the reason for this, or just the knowledge that I'm about to be spending plenty of time with hot college guys.

[Jibralta]

This does not seem like a happy marriage!

 

I think your desire to have an open marriage is just a way for your distract yourself from the miserable set of obligations you've assumed, or maybe it's a subconscious plan to blow up your marriage so that you can be free.

 

What you have taken on is too much!!!

 

Take a look at your post. It's like a misery sandwich. I've realigned it here so that you can see what I'm talking about. The two bolded sentences are the only positives--"the bread" if you will.

 

When I say I have been happily married, it is true..... I love my husband as a partner in life most of the time. And we actually have great sex together!

...he claims that he'd be dead if not for me.... I know he means it. He suffers from suicidal depression. It has become worse over time, starting with events that happened with his job shortly before we married, after we got engaged.

 

Things have become worse and worse for us, financially, over the course of our marriage. Often I do blame it on him. Not to his face, never to his face, but I've been working full-time for the whole marriage and he has been scraping by working part-time. He changed careers and stopped working for several months to go back to school, then after he got certified he realized he hated the new career and went back to the one he originally went to school for, leaving us about $5000 in debt for nothing. The original one, which he still does now, requires lots of networking, but he can't push himself to do that, so he makes barely any money. So I do get resentful, feeling like I work hard and it's his fault we can never get ahead. He knows he isn't pulling his weight, and feels bad. But he just sinks into depression instead of letting it motivate him to take action. I have always comforted him, assured him we'd get through it, etc.

 

I guess the more I think about it, the more unhappiness I find within myself. I have always had to be the strong, mature one in our relationship. He has always let me wear the pants, despite me always saying I want to be equal with my husband, not his mom or his boss. I handle all the finances. I plan and cook all the meals. I do almost all the grocery shopping. Whenever we need to move, it's up to me to find a new apartment. When either of us wants to find a new job, I have to be the one to find it unless a friend of his knows someone who is hiring. If I am upset about something, I have to be careful that I don't trigger him to be depressed if I try telling him about my problems, because that will be worse than struggling on my own with what makes me unhappy. Then I'm still unhappy but have to focus on making him feel better.

 

I'm sure there's more I could say but I am running late getting ready for work. But wow, I had no idea how much was festering inside me. What do I do with this? I am about 98% certain that if I asked for divorce, he would kill himself.

He is a good, kind, generous, funny man who is loved by so many people in our life.

[Capricorn3]

fully believe that humans aren’t meant to be monogamous. It is my fault for not making sure that we were clear on that point before we married,

 

we are both looking at going back to school. Considering that I am so attracted to younger men, I knew I would be facing a lot of temptation. I have a magnet on my fridge that says “I can resist anything except temptation” so that should give you an idea. I have been sorely tempted. Tempted to the point that if the man in those situations had actually propositioned me, instead of just flirting a lot, I don’t know what I would have done. I don’t know that I would have had enough control.

I just wonder if the pieces of my marriage that I am unhappy with are really the reason for this, or just the knowledge that I'm about to be spending plenty of time with hot college guys.

This is all very telling. Would it be fair to say there is a huge chance that when you go back to school that you could end up cheating? It seems you are getting "weak" when you think about spending time with all these young guys and you talk about temptation etc. Seems you're heading in the direction of no return.

 

I still think the big issue is about your low self-esteem and loving the attention (your words). Add to your strong belief that humans are not meant to be monogamous ... well, seems the writing is on the wall? I don't know, but I don't think this is going to end well. All I can strongly suggest is that you find another therapist, someone who has more experience. I have a feeling if you dig a little deeper there is a lot more going on.

 

Other than that, I would say you are definitely a lot more suited to leading a single life. Marriage doesn't seem to fit your ideas (imo)..

[catfeeder]

I'd be full on straight with husband about what I want. Not as a demand, but as a clarifying statement of what he's up against--he deserves to know.

 

Then I'd let the chips fall and see where they land. He'll either negotiate with you, or his reaction to your deviation from the vows he believed you were both taking will bring about something--and either you can work it out, or not.

[Honeycomb8]

You're not happy and you will also cheat. Before that happens, you should divorce. Having the responsibility of someone else's happiness and potential life in your hands must be tiring and stressful.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately you have been mommying him for so long that you now feel you deserve to cheat and in order to prepare for that you are coming up with the "open marriage" story. It's also odd that you think divorce would be a suicide risk for him, however your cheating and this "open relationship" that he doesn't want is better?

 

You've been so busy mommying him, that you just want to have sex with younger men but not start raising them and mommying them, because you are still doing that with your husband. You also come across as quite the martyr because of this mommying complaining about having to do everything and how poorly you've had to live and get by.

 

It seems screwing younger men is some sort of way to reward yourself for putting up with your bipolar, emotionally, financially and all around deficient partner. Interestingly he has insight and treatment for his mental illness, but you position yourself as above therapy but seem to have very little insight into your dilemma.

 

Yes screwing some college boys would be fun, but it won't solve your financial problems, improve your husband's mental health or your overall dissatisfaction with him or your marriage.

 

I’ve never found myself looking at another man and wishing I was in a relationship with him instead of my husband. we are both looking at going back to school. Considering that I am so attracted to younger men, I knew I would be facing a lot of temptation.

 

He went straight from his parents’ house to living with me, so I think he just never grew up and learned how to do things on his own.

 

I wish he was more independent/less needy. I wish I didn't feel like I had to support him emotionally. I wouldn't want to be responsible for helping another man "find himself" and mature into a suitable spouse.

[Aeryn22]

Wow, thank you all for your replies. This does go deeper than I realized. I think that all of you had some important bits of truth for me in your messages.

 

Jibralta, you bring up a very interesting perspective when you talk about a misery sandwich. I appreciate the way you formatted that for me. I will have to spend some time thinking about if my life truly is a “misery sandwich”and what I can/should do about it.

 

Capricorn, you ask if it would be fair to say that there is a huge chance I will cheat when I go back to school. I don't want to admit it, but yes, I think the chances are high the way things stand right now. I would be inclined to agree with you that my low self-esteem and love of attention have large roles to play in this. As of today, I am going to think about dropping my classes for the upcoming semester and waiting until the fall. That would give me time to try to fix this situation before I am surrounded by temptation. I have a pending scholarship application that I need to wait to hear the result of, because if I get the scholarship I'd feel quite bad turning it down since it would almost cover the full cost of the spring semester. But if I don't get the scholarship then I will seriously consider dropping the classes.

 

Catfeeder, I appreciate your advice. I realize now that if I had been straight with my husband about my expectations from the start, we either wouldn't be married or he might have decided that having the relationship with me was worth it, even knowing that I have unconventional views on monogamy, and I wouldn't be worrying so much about this now. I'm going to think about how I could bring this up to him in the least demanding way. I don't know what result I will get, but like you said all I can do is let the chips fall.

 

Honeycomb, I can't tell if you were being sarcastic or not when you said “Having the responsibility of someone else's happiness and potential life in your hands must be tiring and stressful.” Care to clarify? It seems like being married to someone means that you have some degree of responsibility for those things no matter what, are you simply suggesting that I have taken on too much of the responsibility?

 

And Wiseman....... all of the previous posters had some truth in their advice to me, things that resonated with me and made me think. But yours, well, you know the phrase “the truth hurts”? Your post hurt. It was the first thing I read this morning when I woke up, and I haven't stopped thinking about it. It was never my intention to mommy my husband, honest. But I can see some of this happening. And he annoys me now with some of his immature behavior, but perhaps I encouraged it. I have though to myself before that we would be much happier if he went out on his own and lived without me for a year, just so he could grow up and we could untangle some of our codependency. But I also know that for most couples, once they separate like that they don't get back together. I apologize, as well, that I made it seem like I am above therapy. That was not my intent. It has been hard for me to adjust to it, because I was raised in a family that doesn't believe in going to therapy, you talk to your family or work it out on your own. But I don't share their views. I think therapy can be great. I would definitely consider seeing another therapist in the future, but I was just saying that I haven't had a satisfactory experience yet with one. I've only seen 2, I know there are lots more out there and probably one of them would work better for me. Do you feel like there is a way to salvage my marriage at this point?

[Wiseman2]

The only way to untangle it is to change your approach. He has a therapist and is on medication so it's very likely this is an "as good as it gets" situation.

 

Yes a better therapist could help you with that. It may not save your marriage but it may save your sanity and potential for future happiness. If he doesn't want to live on his own he can go back to his parents, where you found him. He'll be fine. And you'll be fine once you address this lopsided dynamic and the understandable resentment that comes with it.

 

Even though you may believe this is contingent on him accepting an "open marriage", it's more likely contingent on you accepting the truth about him, your marriage and your unhappiness.

I have though to myself before that we would be much happier if he went out on his own and lived without me for a year, just so he could grow up and we could untangle some of our codependency. I would definitely consider seeing another therapist in the future. Do you feel like there is a way to salvage my marriage at this point?

[DancingFool]

OP, I was tired just reading what all you have taken on in this marriage. Can't imagine what it's like to actually live it day to day. So it doesn't surprise me that you are seeking an escape. Can you salvage things and figure out how to be happy? Possibly. However, it starts with becoming very very honest with yourself about what you actually want, need, don't need and your lack of genuine satisfaction with your husband. We have a 100% happy marriage followed by a long list of unhappy...is just lying to yourself and it doesn't help you at all to actually be happy.

 

I have to echo Wiseman, that some of the issues, you really have created for yourself. Of course, if you will jump in and do things for him, he will totally be happy to let you. Who wouldn't? You have to learn to stop doing that and that's what Wiseman means by mommying him to the point of martyrdom. For example, if you are working full time and him only part time, he should be doing all the chores around the house. All of them. No excuses. Cooking, cleaning, groceries, errands, you name it. If he doesn't do it or doesn't do it well, you actually don't jump in. You let him fail. As in tough love fail. Let's say that he didn't do a grocery run and you come home and there is nothing to eat, don't fight. Just walk out and get yourself food. Let him get off his azz and go to the store if he wants to eat. You don't take over at all. You literally let him fail and leave him alone to fix it. No criticism, no begging, no nothing. OP, I'm just giving you an example, a concept of how to right things and start off loading some of the burden you've take on back on him so he is a partner and not just a dependent. Believe it or not, it will help his depression too. Doing things and getting things done has a huge positive psychological effect.

 

However, you have to learn to resist your own dominant personality in taking over tasks and taking charge. You have to learn to step aside and let go a lot.

[abitbroken]

You say you can't afford marriage counseling? Well you can't afford the alternative - divorce -- or the pain of losing your husband.

Its a pay me now or pay me later. btw, your husband doesn't have a "problem" because he does not want to cheat on you, even with your consent.

I do think that even if he is not speaking it - knowing that you want to go outside the marriage does hurt intimacy and his self image.

 

I hadn’t thought about my desire for an open relationship as an attempt to escape an unsatisfying marriage. To be fair, I have been in favor of one ever since before we married, back when we were deliriously happy with each other and didn’t have the financial problems we have now. So I don’t think that it is the only reason for me to want one. I fully believe that humans aren’t meant to be monogamous. It is my fault for not making sure that we were clear on that point before we married, I realize that now. I set it aside for a while, waiting for my husband to come around to it. He has told me before that he was working on getting used to the idea of it. But I wonder if the reason that I am feeling so strongly right now that I want to push for it has to do with different reasons than my original reasons for asking for it.

 

Yes, monogamy exists and many people are monogamous. The thing about marriage and monogamy in general, is not "i am monogamous - until i get bored." No - you work at it. There are times that you have wild desire for eachother sexually and there are times that you simply enjoy the comfort of their company and sometimes that can even be different days of the same week. Marriage is about always working towards an understanding and coming together - not apart.

 

Its intersting that people use "people are not meant to be monogamous" as a reason for cheating.

 

You should have NOT married a man who is monogamous, believes that sex comes only with love, etc. Unless you found a man to marry who was a swinger but wanted to come home every night to a wife and you were both onboard with that arrangement prior its one thing, but its not fair to marry a man and exchange vows of fidelity and then say "well, i want an open marriage." But here you are.

[Aeryn22]

Once again, thank you for your responses. I think I found out a piece of my husband’s reluctance last night, but I am also very confused. The subject came up of a couple he is friends with. He told me some time ago that they are swingers. I never really said much about it. He is going to see them on Thursday and I’m not going with him, I’ve only met this couple once so they’re his friends more than mine. I responded with “ohh kinky” when he said he was going to their place; I said it to be silly but also to see how he’d react. He asked me if I’d ever met his friend’s girlfriend, and was talking about how she is attractive. I said he could be with her if he wanted to. He said that he didn’t want a threesome with his friend and his girlfriend. I said I could keep his friend occupied while he was with the girlfriend, as long as the two of them would be ok with that. I almost didn’t say anything. I had all of you in mind, disapproving of my choice lol. But I had to know what he would say, particularly when dealing with a “wife swap” sort of situation instead of just a vague “other people” sort of hypothetical.

 

It turns out, he is worried about one of us getting an STD, even if we used protection and had a conversation with our partners about it before doing anything. You know what? I understand that. It is a more logical concern than just “I don’t know, it’s weird.” And he said he’s worried about me falling in love with someone else. Also a more logical concern than just not liking the general idea of it. So I dropped the subject. But here’s where it gets weird and confusing. We made love later that night. I could tell that he just wasn’t going to… arrive. So I decided to talk dirty in a way that I don’t remember ever doing before. I started talking about being a sl*t, being c*ck hungry, etc. (Sorry for the tmi but it is relevant!) I figured it didn’t seem like he was going to finish anyway, might as well try it and see what happened. Well, what happened was that he finished almost immediately. He told me afterward that his initial reaction to what I said was negative, but then suddenly it seemed really hot to him! He even brought it up again today briefly. So does he just enjoy the thought, the fantasy? Or could this be something else? The other thing is that, after I dropped the subject of his friends last night, he later told me that “he’ll know how he feels after Thursday.” Does this suggest that he is planning to talk to them about it? After talking to you guys I was fully believing that he would never change his ways. But now I’m getting mixed signals!

[abitbroken]

I think you should tell your husband that you don't want to risk your marriage and you should explore together in the bedroom - talk dirty, why not dress up in things you never did for him before -- lingerie or something if you are normally a boxer and tshirt pajama gal. Who knows, get a wig to change your appearance and be the other woman yourself. Its hot to men that their woman desires just them. It could make you closer. That's my takeaway from it. your takeaway of course is going to want him to cheat.....

 

your husband thinks this is the only way he can make you happy -- i think that you should tell him that you changed your mind.

[katrina1980]

>>I fully believe that humans aren't meant to be monogamous

------

 

Interesting mindset, do you know where that comes from? And what about it turns you off? The lack of variety, boredom, familiarity?

 

I do believe in monogamy within an exclusive relationship; what I am questioning now in my own mind is the idea of having any sort of exclusivity "agreement" as if such agreement would prevent someone from wanting to step out and/or leave the RL if they met someone else or otherwise wanted to. It doesn't, imo.

 

But re monogamy, there is a saying I quite like and adhere to myself in my relationships.

 

"You can have the same experience (sexual) with many different people, or different sexual experiences with the same person."

 

Perhaps strive to have different sexual experiences with the same person -- namely your husband.

 

You took the vows, honor them, try and save your marriage.

 

If you're not up to the challenge, then divorce.

[ThatwasThen]

My husband and I have been happily married almost 3 years, but dated for several years before we married.I have made it clear to him ever since we first met that I believe that it's entirely possible to have sex without having emotions for someone. He was raised in a religious family so it took him a while to understand that viewpoint, but he has never been mad about me feeling that way. He has been with a small number of women and dated all of them. I've been with about twice as many people as him, but I've only been with 7 people, male and female.

 

He feels a little bad sometimes that he didn't get more experience before we got serious. I sometimes feel like, even though I love him very much, I wish I had more time to have fun, casual sex before settling down. We were in our late teens when we started dating. It's been nearly 8 years since I had sex with anyone else, and I think around 9 years for him! He's had women interested in him, I've had men interested in me. So far we haven't had any extramarital sex. But I'd like to. I don't have a specific guy in mind, but I'd love the freedom to have some fun if a hottie crossed my path. And I am completely ok with him having sex with other women, as long as there isn't some double standard where I can't have sex with other people. So how do I ask for it?

 

I did bring up the idea of an open relationship about 4 years ago. He wasn't totally against it, but was hesitant. Since then, the topic has come up on occasion. He brought it up a couple months ago, and I brought it up about a week ago, but I haven't explicitly asked for it since that first time 4 years ago. He knows I am fine with him having sex with other women, and he and I check out attractive people together all the time, usually we look at women together but he doesn't mind if I check out other guys when I'm with him.

 

The other piece of this is that, although we love each other and are very attracted to each other, our tastes would suggest otherwise. We are the same age but he generally prefers older women (40+) and I am very attracted to younger men (18-25ish). Neither of us has ever slept with the sort of older woman/younger man that we fantasize about.

 

He has two reasons that cause him to hesitate: he doesn't know how he'd even proposition another woman, since he's never had casual sex and also he thinks they will say no because he's married and won't believe that I really am ok with it. And he says it is weird to think about other dudes being inside me.

 

What do I do? I've been so tempted by guys before and haven't had anything happen, but it doesn't mean it hasn't been close a couple times. I don't want to leave my husband, or go behind his back and have an affair. If I'm having sex with other guys, I'd rather he knew about it and he also got to have fun with other women. I'd love it if we could share stories and maybe even share lovers sometime. We've danced around this for so long, how do I make it happen?

I'm coming in late to this thread without reading any other replies so my bad if this has been said:

 

There is a whole slew of people out there that want what you want so ask him to join an adult dating site (Adultfriendfinder) comes to mind wherein everyone there is looking for what you want. Suggest it to your husband and if he's against it again then maybe rather then ruin your relationship through "going behind his back, you either break up and have all the fun you feel you need or go to therapy to delve into ways to train your brain to accept monogamy.

 

You say that you can have sex without emotions. Well, I don't think your husband can since he didn' jump on board with your suggestion from the get go and he's always been in and enjoyed monogamy.. If that is the case I suspect that he will be the one that betrays you emotionally if he relinquishes to your desire.

 

If you go ahead with what You want, then I wish you luck in keeping your relationship together.

 

FWIW: I am monogamous by nature but I truly believe that poly relationships will, in the near future, be just as acceptable as any gay coupling has become today and the community will open itself up as has the LGBQT community.

 

Polyamorous Pride Parade anyone?

[ThatwasThen]

Oh, Snap... I just read your second post, OP and I really don't think you should get involved with an open relationship when your husband has the issue he does but rather you get yourself into counseling to help you to understand that what you think you want will do nothing to make your home life any less unfulfilling.

 

Marriage counselling where you go together as a team may help him to be more motivated into living life and contributing to the relationship in general. You caretake him currently which is the dysfunctional and codependent opposite to caregiving.

 

You long for a man it would seem, not a full grown boy (nor a slew of sexual partners.)

 

I hope you two are devoted enough to one another to find your joy. If he won't consider marriage counseling then go yourself and get the guidance you need to form personal boundaries with him so you end the caretaking. By being the caretaker, you give him zero motivation to change when he has someone to do it all for him.

[Aeryn22]

I can see now that this is not the right time for me to be suggesting this to my husband. However, I don't just say that I want an open relationship and I don't believe in monogamy as an excuse to cheat on my husband. Truly I don't. Like I mentioned before, I first suggested an open relationship to him before we married. I still would like to find a way to make it happen someday. I don't want to go behind his back. But I can see now that there is some resentment that has developed over time against him, and I need to work on that first so that we can get to the point that it would make more sense to have the open marriage conversation. So that I can feel confident that I am asking for it with the right intentions, asking for it the right way. So I will hold on to my goal, but set it aside and do some work on our relationship first.

 

Thanks everyone for your advice.

[bluecastle]

Good attitude, OP. The way you're processing all this—listening to yourself, being "open" to incorporating new perspectives, trying to figure out the deeper needs beneath the surface needs—is quite inspiring.

 

I think the other night you got a taste of what you may be seeking most, or at least what you need before the "open" talks drift from theory to reality: a deeper sense of intimacy with your husband, as well as with yourself. You both pushed things outside of your comfort zone and found, well, more comfort, more heat, more vulnerability, and maybe softened some of that resentment that's been forming. And you did it without sleeping with a 23-yr-old grad student, without him sleeping with a 40-yr-old, but together.

 

I'm not saying you stumbled upon The Answer with some light kink, but I'd celebrate what happened for a moment, sit with it—both as a reminder that there is more to explore inside the "closed" space you two share, as well as a possible glimpse of what you may be looking for, generally, inside of something more "open." The possibility being that it may be more complex than multiple partners.

 

I can relate to so much of what you're wrestling with, but from the never-married-at-39 position. I've kind of been biting my tongue on this thread, because in ways I feel that I've lived a bit of of the life you're curious about—sometimes with elegance, sometimes not. Multiple partners, a certain sexual fluidity with friends, an openness, questions about monogamy—plenty of history with that. Unexpected drama, infidelity, pain, loss, disconnection, a dark sense of being hollowed out by the very thing I thought would fill me up—yup, check. Childhood sexual abuse, a cad of a dad, a lust for attention, particularly from the opposite sex, that's led to plenty of fun and plenty of fires—that's all in me too. I've spent a lot of time (in my own head, in relationships, in therapy, in the laboratory that is being alive) exploring the connections and untangling those knots.

 

I'm open to just about any idea of a relationship, have a pretty high threshold for experimentation—with love, with sex, with life. I'm still very much trying to figure out what works, how to reconcile what can feel like so many contradictory needs and desires inside me: for new experience, for the comfort of familiarity; for deep lust, for deep love; for total honesty, for total mystery; for danger, for safety; for freedom, for partnership.

 

I could go on and on. But I'll simply say this: the idea of finding a way to explore all that with one person, rather than many, sounds a lot more radical than spreading it out among the masses. Gun to head, most of us will cherish the deepest, most intimate connections we have. If openness and non-monogamy can stem from that intimacy—great. But if it's a way of sidestepping it—maybe not so great.

 

Anyhow, bravo and best of luck. Keep us posted.

[ThatwasThen]

I can see now that this is not the right time for me to be suggesting this to my husband. However, I don't just say that I want an open relationship and I don't believe in monogamy as an excuse to cheat on my husband. Truly I don't. Like I mentioned before, I first suggested an open relationship to him before we married. I still would like to find a way to make it happen someday. I don't want to go behind his back. But I can see now that there is some resentment that has developed over time against him, and I need to work on that first so that we can get to the point that it would make more sense to have the open marriage conversation. So that I can feel confident that I am asking for it with the right intentions, asking for it the right way. So I will hold on to my goal, but set it aside and do some work on our relationship first.

 

Thanks everyone for your advice.

 

Read everything you can on codependency and the difference between caregiving and caretaking (which you are currently doing with him). I have a feeling that if your husband can change (through therapy and no longer being enabled) to be the man you need him to be, then your perceived need to be sexually active with stranger men will no longer be even necessary.

 

Good luck going forth. Work on you and let him work on himself... that's his job, not yours. You only have control over yourself and having the courage to change the things you can.

 

Here is a link to explain the difference between caretaking (an act of codependency) and caregiving (an act of interdependency)

 

https://www.expressivecounseling.com/articles/codependency-caretaking

 

I think this would be a good book for you to look into as well:

https://www.amazon.com/New-Codependency-Guidance-Todays-Generation/dp/1439101922

[katrina1980]

Great article TwT on caretaking versus caregiving.

 

What I have sometimes experienced with this, caregiving, is that the other person actually wants and needs me to caretake, and when I don't, they interpret that to mean I don't care.

 

How does one navigate that? I have found it's a fine line.

[ThatwasThen]

You do no one any favors when you enable them to not grow and become interdependent. It takes a lot of self-reflection, reading up on codependency behaviours that need to be reprogrammed to more healthy perspectives and learning how to be able to say "no" without guilt.

 

How do you navigate people who view non-enabling as not caring? By pointing out to them that you care and you will support them in their self-help but it's up to them to learn to figure this out for themselves and do the work they need to do to fix whatever it may be that needs fixing. One actually cares more when they allow others to grow to their full potential or sink to their rock bottom so they need to do the work they need to do because no one else is doing it for them.

 

I hope that made sense.