Why has our society changed so tremendously?

[Blue Spiral]

Reading these summaries is like peering into some foreign land.

 

LOL!!!!! I find this "theory" hilarious.

 

It's not a foreign land or a theory--it's simply my lived experience, and the lived experience of many other men, as well. Our stories are online, and they aren't hard to find. But, by all means, ignore us, and also ignore the growing number of women who are complaining about how hard it is to find men to marry. There are all sorts of female-written articles and blogs about it. Ignore the studies that say that men are increasingly delaying or avoiding marriage altogether, and ignore the stats that say that men are placing less of an emphasis on long-term commitment. For that matter, ignore the OP--if her experience doesn't track with yours, she must be wrong, right?

 

My experience: by the time that women consider settling for me, they either view it as a primarily financial move, or they've greatly de-prioritized sex and are looking for more of a child-raising partnership. The women that ignored me when I was younger are now paying attention to me...but not for the reason I want them to. I didn't get what I wanted back then; I'm not giving them what they want now.

[deeraspberry]

I agree that times have changed in many of the ways you said... I'm 35 and have been single for 3.5 years because I haven't found what I'm looking for yet. It's difficult but not impossible. I agree with a previous poster - the types of websites you're using matters. I would strongly suggest investing in a PAID membership on a serious dating site like match.com. You could also try speed dating if you prefer the in person vibe or you could sign up for a matchmaking service I wish you the best of luck, DON'T GIVE UP HOPE!

[deeraspberry]

Sex+ Feminism has drastically increased the availability of no-strings-attached sex for men.

 

Before men were trading commitment for access to sex. Now it's easier for them to get access to sex without offering commitment in return, so they're not offering commitment in return simply because they don't have to.

 

1000% true - which makes it harder for us girls to find guys that are willing to make an effort to sleep with and date us

[Batya33]

1000% true - which makes it harder for us girls to find guys that are willing to make an effort to sleep with and date us

 

I don't agree with that in the least. I think that is offensive to many men who are not interested in casual sex and wouldn't want sex outside of a committed relationship. Sure, men and women can have strong sexual desires including for complete strangers, but that doesn't mean they act on it, nor is the reason for acting on it gender-based. I don't think it has to do with feminism, simply that more women feel freer to be open about being comfortable with and wanting to have casual sex where before it was stigmatized far more or seen as akin to prostituting oneself. And yes I differentiate between the increased rights for women and "feminism". Many women who would not consider themselves feminists nevertheless want equal pay for equal work and the right to have an abortion, etc.

[Fudgie]

Men who want marriage are not a minority, unless you're talking about men 18-21 in age. If youre not finding them, you need to adjust how you're finding them, what you're doing to attract them, what attracts you, etc. The answer is not to blame society.

 

I know some women who want marriage and family and can't find it. They deep down have an attraction to men who don't want that and have other traits they like but then turn down men who want marriage who don't have certain traits and then they complain. Whereas me, I've always gone for steady nerds and my complaint as someone who doesn't want kids and is iffy about marriage is that I kept running into guys who wanted to date but wanted marriage/kids while the ones who didn't want kids weren't to my liking.

 

It's a big sea out there. Change your bait and maybe go to another location to fish from and see what's there

[Wiseman2]

You have obviously not been to Disneyland, a mall or a supermarket or home improvement store and taken a good look around. Spiral;6612972]

Women who are not attractive enough--and/or not of a certain class--will not find marriage-minded men

[Seraphim]

It is funny everybody wanted choice . Choice to be married, choice to not be married, choice to have sex whenever you want, choice to be magnanimous , Choice choice choice choice choice .

 

But if you look around here you're really pushing it to find someone happy.

 

Careful what you wish for...

[Blue Spiral]

You have obviously not been to Disneyland, a mall or a supermarket or home improvement store and taken a good look around.

 

Yeah, that's a very good point. I'm shocked at the number of don't-look-at-them-or-you'll-turn-to-stone women with wedding rings on. I suppose that I should have factored in the "high-maintenance" issue, as well, which probably explains some of this.

[Ms Darcy]

I offer a different perspective.

 

Over time, society has become more accepting of different lifestyles. Poly, childfree, what have you. People have choices now. It used to be that unless you got married and popped out a kid or two, you were seen as very, very odd because that was the only acceptable paths. After homosexuality was accepted, you had gay men who came out later in life, after marrying and having a family, because that's "just what you did". Same thing with men who genuinely don't want a commitment and just want sex. Before, they would all marry and just cheat on their wives. Now, they don't marry (they shouldn't) and they are free to date here and there or have one night stands or fwb or whatever!

 

What I'm saying is, be happy that there are choices, that these men who don't want commitment are free to express it! So you can find someone who actually wants what you're looking for.

 

You know, that's a good point. In some of those cultures where men and women marry and stay married forever, the quality of the marriages are a real crapshoot. I mean, for many you have men who basically cheat on the regular. In the Western world, they would be (perhaps) more free/open to say they want polyamory or an open marriage.

 

On the other hand, there's a ton of cheating in the Western world too.

 

I was reading about Ashley Madison (a dating site - basically - for married people looking to cheat.) There was a big news story about them and how many the site basically used a lot of bots (fake women) to entice men into thinking they were/would cheat. And there were a lot of men who were outraged but reluctant to come forward and sue them. Which is understandable. What douche wants to come out and say, "How dare you trick me?! I thought I was really cheating on my wife! You scoundrels!"

 

Eh. Maybe it's not so open after all?

[Fudgie]

Ms Darcy,

 

Yeah I do think we still have a long way to go in in terms of normalizing other lifestyles. Marriage is still seen the way to being "adult"...whether you're a man or a woman. The problem with this attitude is that many people still won't question whether it's right for them, and they will go into it either before they are ready or maybe monogamy is not for them and that's okay. But they shouldn't get married.

 

So yeah, long way to go but it's a LOT better that it has been and I hope it will continue to get better. Yes, there are fewer guys out there saying that they do want marriage. But consider yourself lucky that they are able to say that without as much criticism so you can rule them out and focus on others!

[Zaphod]

It is funny everybody wanted choice . Choice to be married, choice to not be married, choice to have sex whenever you want, choice to be magnanimous , Choice choice choice choice choice .

 

But if you look around here you're really pushing it to find someone happy.

 

Careful what you wish for...

 

Well said. Time and time again, people buy into what they feel ought to make them happy, rather than what actually will make them happy.

 

Yeah, that's a very good point. I'm shocked at the number of don't-look-at-them-or-you'll-turn-to-stone women with wedding rings on. I suppose that I should have factored in the "high-maintenance" issue, as well, which probably explains some of this.

 

Nah, that's the "accidentally forgot to take the birth control pill and pressured man into marrying them because it's the right thing to do" brigade.

[Zaphod]

Marriage is still seen the way to being "adult"...

 

Good point. It's seen as some sort of magic short cut.

 

People use all of these cheap tricks to pretend they're adult. Mortgage, marriage, kids etc.

[Blue Spiral]

It is funny everybody wanted choice . Choice to be married, choice to not be married, choice to have sex whenever you want, choice to be magnanimous , Choice choice choice choice choice .

 

But if you look around here you're really pushing it to find someone happy.

 

Careful what you wish for...

 

I'll take choice over the alternative every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

 

I don't want to go back to the bad old days. Women were practically property, everybody was stuck getting married whether they wanted to or not (if I'd gotten married to Deedee, she would've killed me by now, I'm sure of it), and people didn't have the freedom to live the way they wanted. To quote Captain America, "The safest hands are still our own." If decisions have to be made, I'd rather be the one making them, as opposed to someone else.

 

Choice can be complicated, and it can lead to periods of unhappiness...but arguing that a lack of choice leads to happiness...that's just creepy, to me. It's like saying that ignorance is bliss. That may technically be true, but, I'd rather know about all the options and then choose the one I want, as opposed to being sheltered.

[Batya33]

I'll never forget this particularly annoying conversation -I was single in my 30s, successful career, living on my own, etc., having dinner with a married friend who was in his early 30s. He and his wife were looking to buy their first house -as he put it "you know, that's the natural progression at our age - you get married, have children, buy a house". It is a typical/traditional mindset, for sure - I just never liked the implication (or direct statement) that it's the only path to adulthood -or that it even signifies adulthood.

[maker]

I'm probably a bad example for a number of different reasons but I happen to be one of those guys who is against marriage and doesn't want kids. That doesn't mean that I go for the other extreme, as much NSA sex as possible. I believe this paradigm shift is in part influenced by sexual liberation in general, in part by the inherent bias against men in divorce proceedings.

Having or not having kids is a completely different story, I chose to opt out because I see it as a huge responsibility, not necessarily something that everyone should engage in with no other qualification but having a working set of genitals. Plenty of bad examples out there.

As for marriage, this quote about sums it up:

 

It's a trap!

 

Admiral Ackbar, Battle of Endor.

[bison67]

I notice these things too! I actually am very curious to see what the "average" family will look like in 20-30 years as monogamy and marriage are phased out of society. It sucks cause I'm an old fashion guy who wants kids and a family one day too and I'm only 24!

[Fudgie]

I notice these things too! I actually am very curious to see what the "average" family will look like in 20-30 years as monogamy and marriage are phased out of society. It sucks cause I'm an old fashion guy who wants kids and a family one day too and I'm only 24!

 

Despite what society tells you, there are lots of people, both men and women, who want marriage/family who are at or around your age.

 

We have increased choice now and as I said before, this is to be celebrated. It doesn't decrease the value of marriage for you. If you truly want to get married for personal merits, then the value will still remain. If you're doing it because you think "it's the thing to do" and "because everyone else is doing it" and "this is the way to being an adult", then of course it won't mean as much but I would argue that no one should make a commitment like that for such trivial reasons.

[Batya33]

I notice these things too! I actually am very curious to see what the "average" family will look like in 20-30 years as monogamy and marriage are phased out of society. It sucks cause I'm an old fashion guy who wants kids and a family one day too and I'm only 24!

 

Nothing old fashioned about wanting a family.

[j.man]

Marriage is struggling to reinvent itself to acclimate to increasingly liberal and decreasingly dichotic gender values. I don't think it's some arbitrary wonder that women are substantially more interested in marriage than men- not to suggest men are generally opposed.

 

That said, I wouldn't get caught up in the hyperbole. You don't need to be hot to find a man who wants marriage. Whether you want to argue it more for the sake of obligaton or from genuine desire, it's still by far the norm for men to aspire to marriage. I don't see that changing. What I do see changing is marital expectations. Men are looking for women eager to contribute to emotional needs, but financial goals as well. Some women are more than happy to. Others are struggling with the fact that being a housewife is going to become an extinct trade and sooner than later.

[Sportster2005]

First of all it's a myth that online dating has increased our choices. There are only so many people we connect with. OLD helps and hinders us to find those rare people. No matter what process we use to find a mate, it doesn't change the number of potential mates we will have. It only increases the number of people we can meet. I think this is what is confusing a lot of people. They meet someone, they like them, but think they can do better, because they have so much percieved choice. So they dump them, go back online and repeat. Where as before OLD they would likely be more open to letting something grow and not be so hasty to fire away.

 

Society always is in flux. That is nothing new. What is interesting though, is the rate of change is happening faster. It makes it that much more challenging to deal with. Not long ago people put ads in papers to meet other people. This practice was probably around for decades. Then online dating started. At first there were only a few sites. It took a while for it to be acceptable. But acceptance was fairly quick. In a relatively short span online dating has changed drastically. There are hundreds if not thousands of sites. The purposes of the sites have also changed and morphed. And now we are moving toward dating applications. Tinder is more an application, than it is a site.

 

This rate of change is only going to increase and our anxiety and ability to adapt, will be challenged.

 

To answer the question, it has changed tremendously, because the rate of change is accelerating.

 

I highly recommend trying to meet people offline. I think you have a better chance of meeting a connection that way.

[Jabron1]

One word: feminism.

 

Understand that, as a man, the game is rigged against you. Which is fine...

 

Don't get married; don't have kids.

 

Be a bachelor, and have a good time. But understand the state of the game.