Why has our society changed so tremendously?

[Ms Darcy]

The man doesn't want anything to do with the kid. In which case, the woman gets the kid, and the man should pay whatever support is needed.

 

In my opinion, any man (or woman because woman can abandon their children too) who abandons their child should have to pay child support and then some. The "and then some" would be punitive for the mental damage that kid is going to face growing up without that parent.

 

Hopefully covers future therapy bills.

[Gary Snyder]

I'd agree with the kids part, as it's a biological urge, but the marriage part's debatable, being down to social conditioning rather than anything to do with inbuilt biological needs.

yeah, I don't know why more women than men want to get married (especially women who have never been married). I just know that they do.

 

I also know that women are more often than not, interested in monogamy. I guess marriage goes along with that.

 

By the way, some people think monogamy is a type of wood.

[Heather Dawn]

Sorry, j-man, didn't mean to thank that post...LOL

[Ms Darcy]

Not to mention, as is so often demonstrated by posts on here, the woman splits up with the man in a LTR because he "doesn't want to marry" - again, breaking his heart, leaving him wondering what he's done wrong.

 

If someone I dated for a few years wondered "what he'd done wrong" after telling him for a few years that I was dating with the intention of finding a marriage partner ... if he had NO understanding, I'd think he was a complete idiot.

[Seraphim]

That's an oxymoron, surely

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

only j/k

Lol..........

[ThatwasThen]

By the way, some people think monogamy is a type of wood.

Well, it can be if you're with the right guy.

[Ms Darcy]

And part of the reason for that fear is because those women know that the guys they're dating can get sex from other women without having to offer any commitment. I don't really see it as deniable that sex positivism has changed the dynamics of dating and sex. Whether that's a positive or negative thing is an entirely different discussion, I suppose.

 

The fear of appearing "relationship oriented" seems so counter productive to me. It would be the best thing in the world for relationship oriented women to allow that fact to drive away they guys who just want sex, and to make room for the guys who are looking for a relationship too. It just seems like begging to get the opposite of what you want.

 

Yes, people definitely do fear being relationship oriented. Look at how people talk about dating.

 

-Hanging out

-Talking

-Seeing where things go

-Casual

-Exclusive (versus committing to being in a relationship)

 

All very non-committal language. Ugh.

[dave_1966]

Women have always been more interested in marriage and kids than guys. Nothing has changed.

 

How it usually works in the real world...... women hooks guy. Woman eventually wants to get married, so nice guy goes along with it because he loves her and relationships are women driven.

 

A little later, she wants to have kids and...... you guessed it, nice guy goes along with it because he loves her and relationships are women driven. When the kids are born he instantly falls in love with them and can't imagine life without them. Isn't it funny how that works! Life is stranger than fiction.

 

There are a lot of undesirables on dating sites, so I'm not surprised there are lots of guys who don't want marriage and kids..... that's probably part of the reason they are single.

 

Here is the rule for men: With women comes marriage and kids. A lot of guys are ignorant, don't know the rules and struggle. Too bad so sad!

 

If he wants it, he has to put a ring on it!

 

Where do you live to have a word view like this, and are you part of a religious sect?

[Ms Darcy]

I wonder about this number, it may be skewed? Could it be "filed" vs. "instigated"? In my case, and at least one other I know, the guy left, wanted out of the marriage, but would not file the paperwork. My husband wanted a divorce, I didn't, but after 3 years I finally filed because he clearly was not coming back. So on paper I "instigated" it, but in effect, he did. In the other case, the guy left for another woman expecting his wife to accept it, but not bothering about the details (i.e., filing for divorce; so after some time and no change on his part, she filed).

 

It's a misleading number. I hashed it out with this poster months ago.

 

And plus, it doesn't take into account "justifiable dumpings." No one would argue that I should have dumped my emotionally abusive ex (I only left when he made a motion to hit me and I was like "Oh, hell no.") Lots of holes.

 

The 50% of all marriages end in divorce thing is worse.

[ThatwasThen]

Its ALL not rubbish... Just take a look at the stats of men that have said they don't want children but won't get a vasectomy only to go on and have children with another woman then the one they said they didn't want children to.

 

There are no stats but I've read dozens of threads where that exactly happened and know many couples (myself included) that had a partner that didn't want kids but changed their mind and are now glad they did.

[Ms Darcy]

Thing is that depending on the study, men are somewhere between 100% to 200% more likely to kill themselves after a divorce than women. There's obviously something there that better serves the interest of the women (at least more generally than men) and I don't think the initiation rates are coincidental. Again, I don't mean it to suggest it's awful to be a man. My personal suspicion is a lot has to do with the concept of a single custodial parent. I think as joint custody is becoming more favorable with the courts, we'll see things improve.

 

Well, the tragedy around high suicide rates for men in general, especially after the end of a romantic relationship, is largely due to social conditioning. Women have a much much stronger support system in general.

 

I have girls nights, I call my friends and family to vent, I see a therapist every once in a while, heck I make friends just going out to different meetups. I'm at the doctor's today and I had a 20 minute conversation about childhood bullying with my phlebotomist. I can connect with most women anytime anywhere when I'm in the mood.

 

My husband, and similar for each ex-boyfriend, is emotionally closest to me. He doesn't call friends up to talk about his day. He doesn't vent about stuff (unless he's looking for a fix and even that's not often). He doesn't open up and talk about his fears with other people. Maybe once a month he calls some family members for a "catch-up" conversation. His friends are friends through me (couple friends).

 

I'm well aware of the fact that if our relationship ended I'd be sad for a while but I'd be fine. And my husband's told me that he would just plain old never date again if I died because of the devastation.

 

I get the sense a lot of men are in the same boat.

[Gary Snyder]

The divorce rate is 41%. However, not all the relationships and married couples are happy.

 

Women file first for divorce 2/3rds of the time. That's because they have the power in relationships (usually). Relationships are primarily a woman's area (good for them I say).

 

Maybe even try something like Meetmarketadventures.com that will get you doing fun things with a group of singles (equal men to women) wherein you may meet someone who is what you've been looking for.

 

- That URL sounds suggestive.

[ThatwasThen]

 

- That URL sounds suggestive.

Your point?

[j.man]

You sort this while dating. As far as open relationships, just pass.There are men looking for that 519338&p=6612314&viewfull=1#post6612314"] ]

 

Women often have a greater support system. Generally they stay emotionally closer to their families . They talk about their emotions with families and friends. Women often build emotional networks .

I don't even think it's that. I simply think you can get a new spouse, but you can't replace a child. It's one of the few things I'll admit does suck for men. Now, fortunately, it's typically a weekend deal, but consider when only Saturdays was the norm. Joint custody is becoming more the norm thanks to all conventional psychological research supporting it. Yes, you have no shortage of dead beats, but I think the emotional impact of not having your child 5 days a week has been understated for way too long. I believe that if you bring a kid into this world, you owe it to him / her to coparent any way possible, married or not.

[Gary Snyder]

MeetMarket (meat market) - It sounds like a hookup joint.

[ThatwasThen]

MeetMarket (meat market) - It sounds like a hookup joint.

 

No it doesn't. Its a play on words... The very fact that it's "meet" and not meat makes it sound like nothing of the sort.

[Gary Snyder]

I disagree - it sounds exactly the same.

 

Let me put it this way - if I were dating, I would not even get as far as clicking on the site. I would imagine the quality on that site is bottom of the barrel just because of the name alone.

 

It reminds me of another site - DateHookup

[j.man]

You sort this while dating. As far as open relationships, just pass.There are men looking for that 519338&p=6612314&viewfull=1#post6612314"] ]

 

Well, the tragedy around high suicide rates for men in general, especially after the end of a romantic relationship, is largely due to social conditioning. Women have a much much stronger support system in general.

 

I have girls nights, I call my friends and family to vent, I see a therapist every once in a while, heck I make friends just going out to different meetups. I'm at the doctor's today and I had a 20 minute conversation about childhood bullying with my phlebotomist. I can connect with most women anytime anywhere when I'm in the mood.

 

My husband, and similar for each ex-boyfriend, is emotionally closest to me. He doesn't call friends up to talk about his day. He doesn't vent about stuff (unless he's looking for a fix and even that's not often). He doesn't open up and talk about his fears with other people. Maybe once a month he calls some family members for a "catch-up" conversation. His friends are friends through me (couple friends).

 

I'm well aware of the fact that if our relationship ended I'd be sad for a while but I'd be fine. And my husband's told me that he would just plain old never date again if I died because of the devastation.

 

I get the sense a lot of men are in the same boat.

Thing is to me it's not a gender thing. If my girlfriend and I got married and I decided to leave her, take the kids, half the assets, alimony, and child support, I'm not sure there's enough hugs and Arbor Mist in the world to make that OK.

[ThatwasThen]

I disagree - it sounds exactly the same.

 

Yes... you've already said that once.

 

I suppose you think Plentyoffish is where you go to catch Sunday dinner.

[j.man]

You sort this while dating. As far as open relationships, just pass.There are men looking for that 519338&p=6612314&viewfull=1#post6612314"] have no idea why my phone keeps quoting Wiseman. Normally I charge for that kind of endorsement.

[ThatwasThen]

Thing is to me it's not a gender thing. If my girlfriend and I got married and I decided to leave her, take the kids, half the assets, alimony, and child support, I'm not sure there's enough hugs and Arbor Mist in the world to make that OK.

Where do you people live that a working wife/mother actually qualifies for alimony. Geesh!

[j.man]

All over the place. It's based off a discrepancy of income, not her having simply worked.

[Gary Snyder]

I hear you that it is a play-on words..... but I think it's in poor taste. But I'm picky like that, lol

 

Plentyoffish is a good name, I don't have a problem with that name.

[Ms Darcy]

Thing is to me it's not a gender thing. If my girlfriend and I got married and I decided to leave her, take the kids, half the assets, alimony, and child support, I'm not sure there's enough hugs and Arbor Mist in the world to make that OK.

 

Change out Arbor Mist for Mad Dog 20/20 and you will be healed!

[j.man]

You sort this while dating. As far as open relationships, just pass.There are men looking for that 519338&p=6612314&viewfull=1#post6612314"] ]

 

Change out Arbor Mist for Mad Dog 20/20 and you will be healed!

Hey I ain't above that blue raspberry.