Why has our society changed so tremendously?

[Zaphod]

Casual sex means just that... booty calls.

 

How strange. Like something you'd find in the Wild West with some "Madame" running it. Except without the financial remuneration.

 

I joined one of those sites under a false name just to check out the birds on it. And ever since, I get these emails that say "Your 40 hottest picks of the week are..." and I whip through them going "Yeah, nah, nah, yeah" like people do on Tinder. It struck me the other day that this was pretty similar to visiting a brothel, as it goes, where you might get an assortment of women paraded in front of you.

 

Ah well. How "modern".

[Zaphod]

I reckon we all ought to start up the perfect dating site :

 

"bumping-uglies.com"

 

Are you interested in :

 

1 : Lifelong servitude and nappy changing

2 : Booty calls with a twist

3 : Pen pals

4 : Simultaneous assasination attempts

5 : Constant carrot and donkey type dissapointment

 

Please tick two.

 

Please upload a photo of yourself from 25 years ago. The blurrier the better. Product placement not allowed.

 

Congratulations! You are now a member etc. etc.

 

It would be more realistic than any other dating site.

[ThatwasThen]

Six dates?? Wow. One sounds like too many to me...

 

I rest my case... nyuk nyuk, nyuk!

[Wiseman2]

Yes they should cut right to the chase and have a 'friendzone' option, it would save so much nonsense.

What does that make the "casual sex" option then? I guess enemies with benefits? Or something.

 

Two extra options, "Friendzoned" and "Enemis with benefits". This is surely where all these sites are going wrong.

[IAmFCA]

I've not read this thread till the quick glances I just enjoyed. It is hysterical, intentionally and unintentionally so. No wonder we wander about. The level of confusion over what we mean, even when we use commonplace phrases and constructs, is amusing. What is casual sex? A booty call? No, to me that's different. Are 6 dates too many dates? Is one date too many dates? Why am I even dating when all we will do is lie and then blame each other? It's chaos out there!

 

And we didn't even get into polyamory, the occasional threesome or moresome, and how one characterizes the desire to participate in one, as a third, a committed partner, a couple, or something else.

 

The best we can do, friends, is make ourselves happy, refrain from judging others, and take all of it with a hellacious pile of salt.

[Zaphod]

Weird, man. In the eighties, nineties, and even early two-thousands, I seemed to bump into a woman I liked, she liked me, got to know each other a bit in the social circle, got together, no problems. Must be the apps that have made it weird.

 

I'm sure there's a load of Goblins (probably space ones) somewhere that invented Facebook, Twitter, and dating apps and have some kind of conspiracy to crush the fundamentals of human interaction and replace it with some kind of plastic sub-standard haphazard equivalent. All this "set you free" business. All I see is loads of people hunched over their phones in individual cells, hoping for the occasional scummy and half-hearted mechanical "booty call". "Set you free" my arse. Exactly the opposite if you ask me. Positive imprisonment.

[BlarneyStone]

Online and app dating is a waste of time. It takes away the phase of discovery. Matching up with someone through a third party is a medieval concept used to unite houses together (or is that just Game of Thrones?). Also dating a stranger is usually a waste of time, but people get lucky.

 

All the girlfriends I've ever had, I've built a rapport with them before actually dating them, and that could be a time frame of several months. You're more likely to build a successful relationship that way, at least in my experience.

[IAmFCA]

Online and app dating is a waste of time. It takes away the phase of discovery. Matching up with someone through a third party is a medieval concept used to unite houses together (or is that just Game of Thrones?). Also dating a stranger is usually a waste of time, but people get lucky.

 

All the girlfriends I've ever had, I've built a rapport with them before actually dating them, and that could be a time frame of several months. You're more likely to build a successful relationship that way, at least in my experience.

 

I agree, sort of.

 

I use OLD as a way to get introductions to.people who might match, switch to in person meet up quickly, use dating to build rapport, and finally, few months into it, begin to relax into a relationship - if it gets that far.

 

That's me. There seem to be as many approaches as people. Perhaps that's as it should be.

[happpybear]

If you want to use OLD, and want to find marriage minded men, I suggest you try eHarmony. I believe that it is geared more toward that. I used it (succesfully I might add) and I would say that 90% of my matches wanted to have kids one day (and also marriage). I think I was only matched with 1 guy that stated that he did not want children. Me? I stated that I "might" want kids. My bf (whom I met on eH) also chose "might" want kids, I was only matched with a few guys whose preference matched mine.

 

I don't really agree with the OP. I see family' and married pple all around me all the time. And I live in a huge city. All my colleagues are marries save me and one other lady (and my colleagues are all mid thirties or younger). Most of them have children too, some are on there third pregnancies and the are younger than me (i'm 35). The only time in my life where I struggled with not finding men who wanted to settle-down and either get married and have kids or live common law but still have kids was in my ealry and mid twenties when I was dating guys at that same age too. Since the age of 27, the majority of the men I met wanted marriage and kids...which annoyed me at the time becuase back then I had no desire to have kids yet could not find a man that felt the same!

 

So yeah...I just don't think that society has really changed all that much...most people are monogamous and desire marriage...most pple bear a deep desire to be a parent (though sometimes that desire comes later than for others).

 

So I think you may just be looking in all the wrong places and perhaps not filtering well enough.

[Blue Spiral]

I've noticed a real disconnect (not just on ENA, but everywhere) between women who struggle in this area and women who don't. My own personal theory:

 

Women who are attractive enough--and/or of a certain class--will find marriage-minded men.

 

Women who are not attractive enough--and/or not of a certain class--will not find marriage-minded men

 

From what I can tell, marriage is increasingly a luxury for the successful, though more-attractive-than-usual women will be able to break into it. Look at the marriage stats for lower-earning people...

[Zaphod]

Women who are attractive enough--and/or of a certain class--will find marriage-minded men.

 

... and will marry a man a level below them in attractiveness, I'm guessing because it's a safer bet. Makes sense really. All the really handsome men seem to be rejected for the slightly plainer looking provider (probably works in "finance" as a "middle man"). Or at least that's the trend I notice in the married couples I know.

[Ms Darcy]

There are lots of men out there that do want a committed life long partner. The wedding business is a multi billion dollar enterprise so those that want to be married are certainly out there. Quickly ditch those looking for a quick booty call and tighten up your profile settings so that you'll only allow those that at least proclaim to want more then a shag to get through to you. I think those that are seriously wanting something serious tend to find someone who matches sooner rather then later since they don't waste time with the "goers."

 

When I got married, and was going to wedding planning events, there were overwhelming numbers of brides to be. In my "Facebook" circle, most of the people I know over 30 are married or engaged. I live in a neighborhood with tons of families and children.

 

But I don't go to bars or dating sites. I go to meetups, church events, community service and social justice stuff ... people are looking for relationships in those groups.

 

So, in my experience, what you see is what you believe. If you dated a guy who was non-committal basically, see that in online guys, have a friend like this, and go to bars, no wonder you feel this way.

 

I don't run in those circles, so I don't see that. And I'm wondering if you can get with some groups with more "down-to-earth"and/or activity focused groups like a hiking group.

 

I also think there's a big difference between people not necessarily staying marred for 40 years and a hookup culture. There's a middle ground here. I actually don't think marriage is the end-all-be-all. But I don't think people are shying away from it completely as you say. I think with more educational options, women with more economic opportunities, social acceptance of delaying marriage a bit, people are just taking their time to (explore unique experiences) decide who is the "right" person for them.

[IAmFCA]

... I don't get it, the gender/income sorting and relation to choice of man based on looks and sex.

 

I recently noticed one of my GQ worthy acquaintances - a confirmed free agent - has chosen to be quite serious with a woman who shares his passion for fitness but isn't pretty. I mean, she just, isn't. They clearly make a great couple. Their disparity in looks and money is irrelevant because they share lifestyle, passionate interests, taste, and values.

 

Anyway. Just know that patterns as you describe exist. And don't exist. I suspect there is enough variation that the data would support whatever we hoped to see.

[Ms Darcy]

... I don't get it, the gender/income sorting and relation to choice of man based on looks and sex.

 

I recently noticed one of my GQ worthy acquaintances - a confirmed free agent - has chosen to be quite serious with a woman who shares his passion for fitness but isn't pretty. I mean, she just, isn't. They clearly make a great couple. Their disparity in looks and money is irrelevant because they share lifestyle, passionate interests, taste, and values.

 

Anyway. Just know that patterns as you describe exist. And don't exist. I suspect there is enough variation that the data would support whatever we hoped to see.

 

I agree. I know a super hot guy who was very desired by lots of women at my work (including me!) a long time ago. Anyway, his wife is at best "not pretty" in the face (and at worst looks kinda ugly) but is very thin. But they are happy together. You just never know!

[BlarneyStone]

I agree, sort of.

 

I use OLD as a way to get introductions to.people who might match, switch to in person meet up quickly, use dating to build rapport, and finally, few months into it, begin to relax into a relationship - if it gets that far.

 

That's me. There seem to be as many approaches as people. Perhaps that's as it should be.

Hmm.

 

Never tried it, never will.

 

With the exception of my last girlfriend, I've never actually had to ask any of my girlfriends to "be my girlfriend" or have the talk about exclusivity. It just happened. And that happens when two secure people are seeing each other. There's no question about what we are. To me, it's more natural and offers less issues. Soon enough, the terms girlfriend and boyfriend were just being flung around like no big deal. Dating takes away from this, I feel, at a much faster rate.

[Blue Spiral]

... and will marry a man a level below them in attractiveness, I'm guessing because it's a safer bet. Makes sense really. All the really handsome men seem to be rejected for the slightly plainer looking provider (probably works in "finance" as a "middle man"). Or at least that's the trend I notice in the married couples I know.

 

The mainstream take on that phenomenon: the woman has matured, and is ready to settle down.

 

The more cynical take: the woman has gotten older and is now struggling to attract elite males, so she settles for an unexciting-but-moderately-successful provider-type, knowing that she can always divorce him and force him to finance another wild phase.

 

The even more cynical take: as she's gotten older, the woman has placed less of an emphasis on sex, and her new mate-selection strategy doesn't really factor sex in. She happily marries a guy she doesn't really want to ****, though she fails to inform him of this. So, if you're a boring-but-stable thirtysomething guy who feels like he missed out when he was younger, but thinks that he'll have a second chance with really attractive women once they get older and "settle down", you can be in for a rude surprise.

[IAmFCA]

Hmm.

 

Never tried it, never will.

 

With the exception of my last girlfriend, I've never actually had to ask any of my girlfriends to "be my girlfriend" or have the talk about exclusivity. It just happened. And that happens when two secure people are seeing each other. There's no question about what we are. To me, it's more natural and offers less issues. Soon enough, the terms girlfriend and boyfriend were just being flung around like no big deal. Dating takes away from this, I feel, at a much faster rate.

 

I'm not much for the talk, either.

[IAmFCA]

The mainstream take on that phenomenon: the woman has matured, and is ready to settle down.

 

The more cynical take: the woman has gotten older and is now struggling to attract elite males, so she settles for an unexciting-but-moderately-successful provider-type, knowing that she can always divorce him and force him to finance another wild phase.

 

The even more cynical take: as she's gotten older, the woman has placed less of an emphasis on sex, and her new mate-selection strategy doesn't really factor sex in. She happily marries a guy she doesn't really want to ****, though she fails to inform him of this. So, if you're a boring-but-stable thirtysomething guy who feels like he missed out when he was younger, but thinks that he'll have a second chance with really attractive women once they get older and "settle down", you can be in for a rude surprise.

 

Reading these summaries is like peering into some foreign land. I just don't get it, and I mean that in the most literal way. At 50, I see very few patterns, except for self interest. Men and women both, in different examples, choosing sex, provider, companionship, looks, lifestyle for casual, short term, dating, long term, marriage. Women with little looks and little money having similar experiences as women with different circumstances. Age, looks, money being apparently ill matched.

 

It's a free for all out here. Go to the carry out, and order what you want. It might take a while to find it, but eventually, you will get your order. My explanation is, Hey, I'm 50+. This is MY time, now. Nobody is wasting time doing what someone else said is right. If Mom wants a hot night with 25 year old, fine. Dad wants to marry again, this time to another corporate lawyer who lives 3 states away, fine. Dad, Mom, and their friends married and single have moresomes, fine. Woman chooses to date one after the other, fine. It just doesn't matter to anyone but oneself.

[Batya33]

When I got married, and was going to wedding planning events, there were overwhelming numbers of brides to be. In my "Facebook" circle, most of the people I know over 30 are married or engaged. I live in a neighborhood with tons of families and children.

 

But I don't go to bars or dating sites. I go to meetups, church events, community service and social justice stuff ... people are looking for relationships in those groups.

 

So, in my experience, what you see is what you believe. If you dated a guy who was non-committal basically, see that in online guys, have a friend like this, and go to bars, no wonder you feel this way.

 

I don't run in those circles, so I don't see that. And I'm wondering if you can get with some groups with more "down-to-earth"and/or activity focused groups like a hiking group.

 

I also think there's a big difference between people not necessarily staying marred for 40 years and a hookup culture. There's a middle ground here. I actually don't think marriage is the end-all-be-all. But I don't think people are shying away from it completely as you say. I think with more educational options, women with more economic opportunities, social acceptance of delaying marriage a bit, people are just taking their time to (explore unique experiences) decide who is the "right" person for them.

 

Agree with this -depends where you are looking, how you are screening. Obviously the men who want more unusual or fringe lifestyles are going to stand out in your dating mindset more than the guy who wants marriage and children in the long term. I got married later in life -I am almost 50, got married at 42, was in the dating scene on and off for 24 years. I always had "the talk" in part to make sure that if eventually we did have sex (because for me it was with very rare exception not tied to having sex, just focused on whether we saw each other as potentially serious/long term) we would be having safe sex. In the 1980s when I started dating of course there were many people who wanted flings/hookups/just someone to go on dates with but not with any focus on the long term - so what?

 

It's also harder for women who want children to find good matches after around age 35 because some men don't want to rush having a baby soon after marriage.

[Zippy2000]

Sorry, I havent read all the mesages in this thread as Im at work.

 

Keep looking for men out there. There are a few like myself who wants to settle down and be married and have kids. I wanted this when I was 30 but I am not 42 and i still havent found a woman who wants the same as I do.

 

Its like you say there are so many options out there people want to wait till something "better" comes along.

 

Give it time....there rarely is that perfect man or woman.

[Seraphim]

... and will marry a man a level below them in attractiveness, I'm guessing because it's a safer bet. Makes sense really. All the really handsome men seem to be rejected for the slightly plainer looking provider (probably works in "finance" as a "middle man"). Or at least that's the trend I notice in the married couples I know.

I wouldn't say that my husband is a level below me in attractiveness. We also got engaged while in University when all we had was our attractiveness. Lol. And we got married the year we left University and we had absolutely nothing.

 

I'm beginning to think we were a little bizarre. We were nothing like anybody describes here.

[superfan]

I've noticed a real disconnect (not just on ENA, but everywhere) between women who struggle in this area and women who don't. My own personal theory:

 

Women who are attractive enough--and/or of a certain class--will find marriage-minded men.

 

Women who are not attractive enough--and/or not of a certain class--will not find marriage-minded men

 

From what I can tell, marriage is increasingly a luxury for the successful, though more-attractive-than-usual women will be able to break into it. Look at the marriage stats for lower-earning people...

 

LOL!!!!! I find this "theory" hilarious.

 

Guess that means I'm not only HAWT but high class, as I have always dated marriage minded men.

[Zaphod]

as I have always dated marriage minded men.

 

But not married any of them?

[superfan]

But not married any of them?

 

One of them. My husband

[Fudgie]

I offer a different perspective.

 

Over time, society has become more accepting of different lifestyles. Poly, childfree, what have you. People have choices now. It used to be that unless you got married and popped out a kid or two, you were seen as very, very odd because that was the only acceptable paths. After homosexuality was accepted, you had gay men who came out later in life, after marrying and having a family, because that's "just what you did". Same thing with men who genuinely don't want a commitment and just want sex. Before, they would all marry and just cheat on their wives. Now, they don't marry (they shouldn't) and they are free to date here and there or have one night stands or fwb or whatever!

 

What I'm saying is, be happy that there are choices, that these men who don't want commitment are free to express it! So you can find someone who actually wants what you're looking for.