galaxy71

You still don't get it. I agree with you that there are some circumstances that blowing someone off can be very appropriate at times. First, you mention the safety issue. Then you think it's o.k. to blow someone off even if that guy is not a safety issue at all. I know nice women who blow off guys who are looking for a first date, but who thinks it wrong to blow off a guy after you spendt time with him on a date. It's one thing to blow off some random stranger who sent you an email, it's another to not even acknowledge someone you spent some time with to know that you feel safe around him. There is no dignity in silence that you speak of. I have read nice guys, nerds, confident guys, and casanovas complaining about how disappointed they were when someone who seemed to enjoy their time and presense cut off all contact for no explicable reason. Most of these guys hate the indirect rejection because it gives false hope. Instead of moving on to the next girl, these guys have false hope thinking that the girl is busy and she will call him when she has the time. While these guys have false hope, girls like you are hoping that he gets the hint that she is not interested. We feel like crap when the person we like so much won't even acknowledge us as a person with a simple "No, thanks". It's a nice feeling when you see someone you thought was a friend talking to her friends after she has blown off a couple of mesages. "It sounds like you have had some negative experiences with women - I am sorry to hear that but berating me is not the appropriate response, in my humble opinion. Fortunately, I have had very few negative experiences with men, and when I have I have not generalized - well maybe for about an hour, on the phone to a girlfriend - about "all men." I believe that the reason I have been treated so well and with respect is because I treat men (both the men I date, the men I am friendly with, the men I work with, etc.) well and with respect. I have been told this many times and it is a good feeling. I hope that your experiences with women improve soon. Have a great day!" I summarize this paragraph in a few sentences. Don't judge me because I flake out on a guys who are nice and safe. Since I'm a good person, people should excuse my behavior. You're right I shouldn't be upset by your post. You are doing these guys a favor when you reject them. I mean why would a guy with self-respect and dignity want to date a girl who flakes out on good guys all the time?

Batya, you didn't even bother to offer any logic to your reply at all. A lot of girls I knew rejected me politely without having to be confrontational about it all. I can't believe you disrepect people like that by giving excuses that might be plausible. It's just as bad as girls who act rude when they reject a guy by not returning his phone call and by not showing up for a date. This is how good guys become bitter. They are told to just be themselves. Yet when they ask a girl out, girls blow them off and disrespect them. It's obvious that you never knew what it was like to be frustrated like the OP. You also don't seem to care about the fact that you were too harsh toward the OP at all. What alternatives do you have to offer him??? Instead of telling himself how to correct his behavior, you seemed more interested in chewing him out because he called out the rude behavior of many of your fellow females. Learn to treat people with respect. Don't judge him. You never been in his shoes. Guys like him don't have the luxury of having people approach him since he's a guy. There are times when I get frustrated when I see people reject good advice. Yet I don't condemn them because I know what is like to be depressed and hopeless. The OP might suffer from clinical depression or social phobia for all we know. A lot of frustrated guys feel like they have only two paths now. They either become bitter or they become a player. It's the choice that nice guys choose all the time because women refuse to accept them for who they are all. A lot of players or Don Juans even admit that they became womanizers because they got frustrated with the fact that women rejected their initial nice guy selves. I still believe it is false dichotomy. Yet when women reject and comdemn guys without telling guys how to improve themselves, they feel like they have only two paths to follow-become bitter or become a player. I hope that frustrated guys are told that they can improve themselves without having to become a jerk.

I find it offensive when women reject guys by using excuses. If you don't like a guy, don't lead him on by telling him you are busy and that you will call him. That type of passive rejection gives guys false hope and makes guys extremely bitter. This is what guys deal with all the time. Even guys who are good with women complain about how girls flake out on them. This takes the fun out of dating. I also have to agree with the OP, that the advice you gave was pretty harsh. Instead of like telling him alternatives for his behavior, you harshly criticized him. Why should he take your advice when you are condemning him for his post? If I was the OP, I would be more interested in defending myself rather than taking your advice. It's all stick but no carrot. Guys like him usually respond better when you present him with alternatives on how to interact with women rather than when you condemn the poor guy. The only alternatives you offered were "patience, effort, and a thick skin". Women act rude toward good guys like the OP when they flake out on them with excuses about how busy they are. Yet when these nice guys complain about women, the women condemn them. To the OP: You need to learn how to attract women. There are plenty of websites and resources that teaches guys how to attract women through their appearance, personality, and social skills One of the best ways to attract a girl is through flirting. Flirting doesn't have to be compliments. Instead, you can be flirtatious by being fun and playful. Being just friendly doesn't work, since girls act friendly all the time toward people they have no interest in dating. You should model yourself after guys who are successful with women. I mentioned some good websites in that bar thread that is located in the "Dating and Shy People" folder. Being friendly does not work. It's about being that engaging guy that the girl can't get enough of. Do you have hobbies or interests that you are passionate about? That is something that you can talk about with girls. Don't be discouraged. There are plenty of frustrated guys who learned to be successful with women, because they learned from guys who are good with women.

There are two types of flirting. One type of flirting is direct. A guy goes up to a girl and tells her that she is beautiful. The guy is directly showing his interest in the girl through a compliment. The type of flirting you mention above is indirect. In that type of flirting, you show interest in someone you like through your body language, and playfulness rather than through a compliment. Both types of flirting work. But these two types of flirting are rather different. To the OP: Have you considered trying indirect flirting? There is nothing wrong with complimenting a girl. It's just that a lot of attractive women are used to guys giving her compliments all the time. They know that guys value her for her looks all the time. When you act playful with a girl and tease her, you are doing something that she is not so used to with guys. Flirting can be done done through teaching her a handshake or playing a fun game like thumb wresting. Here's an example: Guy: My ex-girlfriend was talking about ESP with me. She really believes in this stuff. Let's see if ESP exists. Pick up a number between 1 and 10. You picked 7. Girl(smiling): I picked 5. Guy: Hey, you ruined the game, you dork! In my opinion, compliments are too hit and miss. The girl has the choice to accept or reject your statement of interest. If she rejects your statement of interest, there's a good chance that you are finished and that you have no choice but to walk away. With indirect flirting, you have more margin for error. If she doesn't like your line or routine, you could try some other material.

You asked a really general question there. Approaching women in bars is much harder than approaching a girl at a school or at a church. Women in bars are approached much more often than women who prefer to chill in a coffee shop. Not only do women have to deal with leachy drunk guys, but they also have to deal with players who are good at manipulating women. At first, women are flattered by the attention they receive from guys. But after ther ninth or tenth guy approaches them, many women start acting cold and unfriendly. Some of them want to dance and hang out with friends rather than conversing with some horny, drunk. The approach "Hi" is usually a good way to start conversations in most places. However, I find that "Hi" is a terrible opener in bars because women are used to having nice guys trying to start conversations with them with a such opener. I prefer opinion openers for someone new starting out in a bar. Girls will not be so quick to blow you off if you asked them for a opinion opener. Here's an example: "I need an opinion. I just have a minute. Do you think it's o.k. for a guy to be friends with his ex?" Attracting the girl Once you get the conversation started, you can attract a girl through many tools like stories, routines, banter, teasing, etc. When you are talking to a girl, it's important to have confident body language. You need to be smiling and having a good time. Once you notice that the girl is flirting back at you, than you ask her questions about herself, her family, and her school. Just remember this. If you spend too much time asking boring, mundane questions, girls will get bored with you. It's important that you learn how to flirt with women. What if she is with her friends? Don't be intimidated if that cute girl is with her friends. You approach the group and ask for an opinion. After that, you win over the group by showing you are a fun, and interesting guy. Once you win over the group, you focus on the girl you like by asking her questions about herself. The competition I also have to warn you that the competition is pretty fierce in bars. Many guys are not afraid of bullying you if they see you doing well with talking to a girl. One time, I was making this girl laugh. Out of no where, this large guy tried to intimidate me by grabbing me. Resources If you are serious about meeting women in a bar, you can try websites like link removed and link removed. I hate the fact that these websites teach guys to be a player. But I have to respect the fact that these websites do a great job of teaching guys the social skills they need to interact with women.

Why would you want to ask out a girl who hasn't shown you any signs of interest? There seems to be no indication what so ever that she would even be open to dating you. If you were Brad Pitt or George Clooney, she would be giggling and smiling whenever she was around you. She would ask you questions and touch you on the arm. I can tell you from experience that you do not want to do this. Girls would look extremely sad and umcomfortable when I tried to ask them out even though they didn't show signs of interest in me. Even if I got a phone number, the girl would flake out on me by not returning my phone calls and not showing up for the date. You really want the girl bad?? I am going to tell you what to do. Just flirt with her! Use banter or teach her something fun. With confidence and flirting, you can get a girl who was initially indifferent with you to start laughing and touching your arm. Women care about personality much more than guys do. That's why you see beautiful women with average looking guys. These guys realize that women are emotional. If you can make a girl laugh and smile, she will eventually become attracted to your personality.

My friends and I were hanging out at this bar. This guy I met at the bar invited me to this sorority party. He said that I could bring my friends with me to the party. When I went to the party, my friends looked extremely uncomfortable and timid. They didn't know anyone there so they were to afraid to mingle with the other people in the party. After I used the restroom, I noticed that a few guys at the party were agitated. One of the college guys got creeped out by one of my friends. He shouted "That guy with the mustache is weird. He looks like he is 50 years old. No one over 26 years of age will be allowed at this party!!! Where is he?!?!" My other friend and I tried to convice the angry guy that the guy with the mustache was not 50 years old. I told him that the guy with the mustache just looked old for his age. When I took a step outside, I saw my friend with the mustache look sad and depressed. Than it hit me. He looked weird. My friend wore a sweatsuit with the hood up inside the house. Not only that, but he wore a cap inside his hood. His mustache really did make him look older than he really is. The mustache is so out of style. The 1980s are over. Young people don't know who Tom Selleck or Burt Reynolds are. His poor clothing combined with his unconfident, uncomfortable body language creeped some of the guys in the party out. The moral of this story. Don't be weird!! Looks do matter. If you look like a bum or a serial killer, people will be repulsed by you. Being yourself will not help you if you look strange and bizarre. Why should people respect you if you don't respect yourself enough to dress like a normal person? Dressing extremely poorly can be a major social violation when the other people in the room are well-dressed, high status people. This "being yourself crap" and we are free to be you and me attitude is pure baloney! Being yourself won't work if your appearance and body language is just plan aweful. If you dress poorly, go to a department store and buy nice clothing. Don't be afraid to ask someone you know for fashion advice.

This condition you have might be genetic. You should google the term "Asian flush". Here is one link that describes this condition: link removed

Many women date jerks because jerks have all the qualities of an attractive man. They want to date a MAN. They do not want to date someone is who is passive and dull. Girls want a guy who is not afraid to initiate things and make the first move.

I am a shy guy. Whenever, I am around people, I am extremely quiet. The reason I am shy is the fact that I have major fears that people will dislike me and disapprove of me if I openly express myself. There is nothing romantic and enchanting about being shy. It is a difficulty that has to be overcome through perservearance and hard work. For most of my life, I had a poor, hunched posture, and I never smiled. I would usually stand in the corner of the room doing nothing. People thought I was arrogant or weird. For most of my life, I used my shyness as a excuse not to interact with people and improve myself. For me, I define shyness as the fear of interacting with other people. Being quiet and introverted is not the same as being shy. Once I stopped using my shyness as a excuse, I have improved my appearance, and I am not afraid to flirt with women I like. Telling people that being shy is attractive is only encouraging people to continue engaging in maladaptive behavior. Many people have tried to take advantage of me because of my shyness. On the other hand, being introverted can be attractive. Introverts are intelligent and analytical. Many of them are great scholars and artists. Many of them are avid readers who are very aware of their feelings and emotions. However being introverted and being shy is not the same thing. Most introverted people are fully functioning people. On the other hand, shyness hinders many men and women from interacting with other people. There are a lot of shy people who suffer from social phobia disorder or social anxiety disorder. Suffering from a serious mental disorder is not attractive at all. I know a guy in his fifties who is scared of going outside. Whenever he is outside, you could see the fear in his face. There is nothing attractive about suffering from a serious disorder. I am not trying to depress anyone who is shy. But I am telling you that shyness is something that you have to overcome. Telling some guy that you find shyness to be attractive is not going to make him realize that shyness is a serious problem that might interfere someone from living a fulfilling life.

Guys are not attracted to bad girls. They are attracted to women who are visually appealing. The guys who chase bad girls are guys who are looking for one night stands and short-term relationships. These guys are attracted to her looks not her personality. These type of guys are not nice guys at all. They are looking for sex not a long-term relationship. The nice guys I am talking about don't usually go to bars and nightclubs. Instead they go to places like church or community service groups to meet women. These guys are looking for long-term relationships rather than a one night stand. As a result, they are looking for a quality women as a girlfriend or wife. Unfortunately, a lot of these guys don't know how to attract women through their personality and looks. . After so many rejections, some guys become bitter and stop trying. Other guys lower their standards and settle by dating women that are unattractive and have major personality flaws. The reason why I am so passionate is that I know of a lot of older, nice guys(in their thirties and fourties) who are like the OP. The nice guys I know are into comics and computers. They are college educated. Yet for some reason, these guys are overlooked by women. Women don't seem interested in their hobbies because these hobbies are "geeky" and obscure. These guys are confident when they approached women. But after so many failures, the confidence fades away since they have no success to build it on. These guys never learned how to attract women. Instead they're fed platitudes about "being yourself" and "how they're is someone for everyone".

It's not a good idea to seduce women that are already taken. A lot of guys don't have a problem acting violent toward someone who tries to steal their girlfriend. However, I think that I should inform you that there are guys who are good at seducing women who already have boyfriends. I will tell you what their strategy is right now. Pouring out your feelings toward a girl who already has a boyfriend isn't that good a strategy. If she doesn't feel the same way, she will reject you and she might even end the friendship. To prevent this from happening, a lot of guys will try a different strategy of flirting. Instead of pouring out your feelings, you are supposed to attract a girl indirectly. When you are indirectly flirting with a girl, you are supposed to show interest in a girl through being playful, intriguing, and touchy-feeling rather than telling her how much you like her. A lot of guys call indirect flirting, "indirect game". Done correctly, the girl will become attracted to your personality even though she doesn't know that you are hitting on her. Once she is attracted to your personality, than you are in positon to seduce the girl who already is taken. With all that said, it's not a good idea to seduce women who are already taken. However indirect game can be useful toward attracting women who are single. You should google "indirect game" if you're interested in what I talked about.

I go to bars a lot. Many straight girls kiss each other because they want the attention of other guys in the room. A lot of guys have a fetish for sexual acts between two women. A few kisses will not make a girl bisexual.

Some time ago, I met this attractive women through my friends. When I talked to her that night, I was having a pretty good conversation with each other. For some reason, I asked her if she had a boyfriend. She looked uncomfortable and said no. The girl than excused herself from the conversation. The question about whether she was single or not made the conversation extremely awkward. It broke the entire flow of the conversation. The question showed too much interest on my part. I posted what happened on another forum. The females agreed that it is extremely awkward to ask a girl if she has a boyfriend or not. If you like someone, just ask them out on a DATE. They will tell you their relationship status if they are already taken.

It is extremely difficult to convey your personality through emails. That's why this website has to use emoticons for the posts. Sure, online personals are great for women because there are a lot more men than women on these websites. Since women get bombarded by a lot of messages, it is easy and convenient for the women to start screening guy's profiles based on just looks. A women can also easily reject a guy by just ignoring his email. In real life, a guy can attract a girl based on the total package of looks, personality, and social skills. Most of real life communication is based on nonverbals. A guy can persuade a girl to give him a chance based on his confidence and personality. Over the internet, it is near impossible to flirt since you can't use your body language and the tonality of your voice to flirt. The internet is such a sterile place to meet people. All of the fun and playfullness of real life social interaction is gone on these online sites. Now, it's time for me to vent. Why do you girls reject guys by ignoring their emails? That is so rude. Don't you have the decency to reject a guy with at least a canned response like "Sorry, but you are not my type". A lot of guys spent a lot of time thinking of saying something funny or interesting in order to get the girl to respond to his email. Yet women can't respond to his efforts with a simple "No, thanks".

I am going to defend the OP here. There are a lot of shy, introverted guys who have completely no clue on how to flirt with women. They do not know how to attract a girl through his personality and charm. Instead of acting fun and confident, a lot of guys will act nervous and anxious around attractive women. This nervousness and anxiety will often result in the guy getting blown out. One effective way to fix this is to memorize a script when talking to a girl. With a script, a guy could focus on looking confident and having alpha body language, instead of thinking about what he has to say next. Here's one piece of script that is pretty popular in the internet "Do you know you have a U-shaped smiled? Yeah, there are two types of smiles. There are C-shaped smiles and U-shaped smiles. You have a U-shaped smile" I know that this script sounds kind of dumb and corny. It should not even be compared to the poems that Cyrano de Bergerac composed for Roxanne. But it's much better than looking nervous when you are thinking about what you are going to say next. Once a guy starts understanding how flirting works using a script, he will start developing his own material naturally and spontaneously . The script should only be used as training wheels for guys who are completely clueless on flirting.

"Yeah, but Lee is talking about pretty much every girl everywhere. He's a really nice guy though, so I don't see why it's so hard for him to make friends." A lot of people feel uncomfortable talking to strangers. In many big cities, you can make someone uncomfortable if out of the blue you just start talking to them. There seems to be unwritten rules about what strangers can and cannot talk about. It seems fine to ask a stranger for the directions to the nearest mall. Yet things get awkward whenever you ask a stranger about their family or their job. Most people in Southern California meet their friends and their significant others through their friends and acquaintances. It seems like you need a stamp of approval before you can be admitted to a new social circle.

a2000, I just want to tell you that that you got to stop letting all those feelings control how you perceive that guy. You know that the guy isn't good for you at all. Yet you continue to like him. All of his charm and sweet talk is an act because he knows how to turn your attraction switches on.

Since there are more women than men on these websites, girls can be really picky on who they choose. Furthermore, it's extremely difficult to attract a girl through your personality, since you can't convey body language online. I wonder whether these people who love using online dating sites could attract a mate in a real life venue like a pub or a coffee shop.

You know, I go on other websites. It seems like the jerks and players are getting lots of sex all the time. These guys brag about seducing waitresses, models, strippers, and party girls. They also brag about how they can seduce straight women into have threesomes with another female(A lot of guys are obsessed with lesbian sex). Even though these guys are destructive, women want to spend time with them. What these guys recognize is that women are generally passive. They want a confident, aggressive guy to take the lead. The guy is expected to approach the girl. Once he approaches the girl, he is expected to prove himself in the first minute of conversation, before the girl decides whether to talk to him or blow him off. Once the conversation keeps going, a lot of these jerks either charm the girl or they will tease the living daylights out of her. A lot of women respond to that stuff because it's different from all the supplicating nice guys who try to kiss their butt. Here comes the critical part between the jerk and the nice guy. When the girl starts liking the guy, the jerk/bad boy will escalate things sexually by going for the kiss or going for the sex. On the other hand, a lot of nice guys are too scared to get out of friend zone. From all this, I believe that many women go for jerks because these jerks take the lead and make the women feel feminine. Women are too afraid to initiate things because they don't want to be seen as a . They are passive. Since the jerks/bad boy/player are aggressive and confident around girls, women are going to attracted to them because they feel comfortable when the guys take the lead. These girls don't consciously want bad boys, but they are the ones who have the gonads to approach her and make her feel attractive and feminine. I think guys should learn to assimilate the positive traits of the jerk while discarding the abusive aspects of the jerks. Confidence, playfulness, and sexual aggressiveness seem to be attractive qualities that guys should have. Those qualities seem to work well on girls.

First, you have to learn how to approach a girl who is part of a group. Instead of relying on your friends to approach a girl, you have to learn how to approach a group of girls by yourself A lot of girls feel safe going to a nightclub with their friends at their side. They don't want to be hit on by some drunk guy. There is no point wasting time waiting for a girl to be separated from her friends. Furthermore, some girls get intimidated when a group of guys approaches them. Guys approach groups of girls by themselves all the time. Approaching a group of girls by yourself is a skill you will need in all types of places like parties, schools, nightclub and bars. When you approach a group of girls, you have to not only win over the girl you like, but you have to win over her friends who might cockblock you if they don't like you. Once the group likes you, then you can isolate the girl you like(i.e. "Hey girls, I've been ignoring your friend there, can I talk to her?"). Since nightclubs are extremely loud, you need to rely heavily on confident body language. Here's one thing I learned that I used on a girl. "Hey, I challenge you to a thumb wrestling match".

The only explanation I could give my friends was that maybe those girls only wanted to talk to guys that they were physically attracted to. That's the only thing that I could come up with. But isn't a church social supposed to provide an opportunity to meet other people in the church, not just those people that you find physically attracted? Then again, it's possible that those girls were just shy and introverted.

Yesterday, my friends were discussing some girls they met at different church events. My best friend talked about how he attended this gathering of a dozen church members at this bar. He complained about how two of the girls in the gathering were extremely cold and standoffish. What's weird is that those girls took the time to attend a small church social, yet they made no effort to socialize with the guys in the group. Why did those girls attend the social in the first place if they didn't want to talk to the guys in the group? This is a common occurrence with the social events associated with that church. It's one thing if some random guy was hitting on those girls in the bar. But it's another thing to act cold toward guys who are part of your church group. This other guy talked about how he experienced something similar when he attended this church singles party that had a pricey registration fee. Some of the girls there paid a lot of money to blow off guys at the party.

In several other threads, girls complained about how total strangers would approach them and ask nosy questions like "Are you single" and "What do you do for fun"? These questions made these girls uncomfortable because these guys seemed to be demanding personal information without providing the girls good reason to divulge such information. Do you women think it's good idea for guys to approach random women so as to barrage them with personal questions? These "players" think that they should display themselves as fun, interesting guys before they start asking women personal questions. The women would feel more comfortable sharing personal information about themselves AFTER they feel attracted and intrigued by the guy's personality. The way these guys try to display their interesting personality is through stacking stories, humor, teasing, and cold-reading. Do you think those tools of conversation are much more interesting and effective than having some random stranger asking you a bunch of personal questions??? I am trying to make the point that maybe these "players" might be right about SOME things. Talking non-stop in a way to attract females can be used for good or bad. I believe that these techniques should be judged separately from the guys who use them.