Story of Gabby Petito...

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

 I would call one of my ex's "my rock," I elevated him to near god-like status.In reality, he was an extremely controlling and manipulative drug addicted alcoholic! 

Please read up on "cognitive dissonance". It's when the truth is so awful the mind tries to reconcile the discrepancy. 

"The discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein the individual tries to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort"

[Capricorn3]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

My current boyfriend is an ex-abuser! 

Can one even recover from being an abuser? 

I'm really curious, when you found out he was an ex-abuser, didn't that raise red flags for you? Even little ones?  I think for myself it would have set immediate alarm bells and spooked me a little. (I'm just fascinated with how we all think so different).

As for can one recover from being an abuser, I would say it's on a par with an alcoholic - you can be sober for a while, but being an alcoholic will still always hang around in the background (imo). The red flag always still waving in the far distance.

[rainbowsandroses]

18 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

I'm really curious, when you found out he was an ex-abuser, didn't that raise red flags for you?

Good question! 

No because (1) when I found out, I still had not fully realized that I had been previously abused, I was still in a bit of denial, and (2) he has a degree in mental health and now counsels other abusers. 

He's very different from my past boyfriends and ex-husband and doesn't feed into my sometimes need to cause chaos and "stir things up."

He just refuses to participate in that which has resulted in me stopping that completely dysfunctional and toxic behavior.

I am questioning it now, because of my past relationships and hope I'm not making another mistake.

 

 

 

[Capricorn3]

5 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I am questioning it now, because of my past relationships and hope I'm not making another mistake.

As long as you're aware of it and don't just brush it off as "no, he's fine now".  Read the signs (should there be any).

[boltnrun]

36 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

He just refuses to participate in that which has resulted in me stopping that completely dysfunctional and toxic behavior.

What sorts of "dysfunctional and toxic behavior" were you engaging in with him?  Did you attempt to create chaos so you'd feel familiar and comfortable?

[rainbowsandroses]

14 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

What sorts of "dysfunctional and toxic behavior" were you engaging in with him?  Did you attempt to create chaos so you'd feel familiar and comfortable?

Yes!   But it's too complex to get into.  

The important thing is that I recognize how toxic it was and have stopped with that nonsense. 

But yeah if they weren't creating chaos and drama, I would (or attempt to) for just the reason you stated..

Not proud to admit...

[rainbowsandroses]

49 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

What sorts of "dysfunctional and toxic behavior" were you engaging in with him?  Did you attempt to create chaos so you'd feel familiar and comfortable?

Bolt, did you ever watch HBO's "Big Little Lies"?  With Nicole Kidman as an abused wife?

Her relationship with her husband is a good way of describing what you're asking. 

My ex's did NOT physically abuse me the way her husband abused her, but the point is that she was comfortable with the tension and chaos and when things were too "calm and peaceful" SHE would say or do something to stir things up, often provoking him to hit her.

One time she did it, and her husband flat out asked "Do you want me to hit you"?

In therapy she did not deny that in a way, YES, she wanted him to hit her.

These relationships can be very complicated sometimes with many layers to them.

As I'm sure you know since you experienced it too. 

 

[boltnrun]

9 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

These relationships can be very complicated sometimes with many layers to them.

As I'm sure you know since you experienced it too. 

I actually never did try to rile my ex up or create chaos.  I prefer calmness.  I like to have fun and relax.  Chaos never appealed to me. I just didn't realize what this guy was about.  It took me a long time to figure out he was just mean.  And selfish.

[yogacat]

Okay, please don't take this the wrong way, but reading some of these posts, it almost seems like there is a component where you seem glorified that your boyfriend was potentially violent and aggressive towards you.

Do you think, that, perhaps given your mother's abusive behavior towards you that there is a part of you that feels the need to be seen or treated as someone who is "worthy" of being abused or mistreated?

This could be why you seem to be somewhat glorified and almost acceptant of the behavior and also why you would provoke him in a sense, because it reinforces some deep-rooted belief that you have about yourself and your worth.

Please know that this is not a criticism of you, but rather an observation and a suggestion to explore this possibility in therapy. It's important to understand the underlying causes of our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors in order to heal and move forward.

[rainbowsandroses]

16 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I actually never did try to rile my ex up or create chaos.  I prefer calmness.  I like to have fun and relax.  Chaos never appealed to me. I just didn't realize what this guy was about.  It took me a long time to figure out he was just mean.  And selfish.

Yup, they can take many different shapes and forms.  

I'm sorry for what you experienced with your ex and glad you made it out okay!

Have you been in relationships since?  I can't remember if you're currently married or not?

I thought I read recently "when you begin dating again...."

IF that was you, don't wait too long. 

The longer we wait, the more comfortable we become with our "aloneness" and the harder to find someone who can compete with that.

JMO on that. 

[rainbowsandroses]

35 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Please know that this is not a criticism of you, but rather an observation and a suggestion to explore this possibility in therapy. It's important to understand the underlying causes of our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors in order to heal and move forward.

No worries, and it would be OK if it was a criticism; it's the truth! 

I'm not sure "glorified" is the right word however there IS truth to this:

35 minutes ago, yogacat said:

you think, that, perhaps given your mother's abusive behavior towards you that there is a part of you that feels the need to be seen or treated as someone who is "worthy" of being abused or mistreated?

I recall in group therapy years ago, my early 20s, the group was talking about what constitutes "love" and how each of us feels and experiences love.

And I clearly recall chiming in saying that I feel love when my mom yells or gets upset/angry at me.  

The moderator asked why and I said "well, she wouldn't get so angry at me if she didn't love me."

I associated her anger and abuse with love.  It's mostly all I knew from her, my primary caregiver.  My dad was caring and loving but not around a lot.  So my mom was the primary.

Sounds so twisted, but these were my feelings and thoughts growing up and carried over to adulthood.

 

 

[Coily]

Having seen a lot of abuse inflicted upon the "lesser partner" the one thing that really stands out is how easily the abuser can get away with it.

Abusers are often charismatic jerks who can hoodwink everyone else. Where the victim is left holding on to what ever they can as a slave against the condemnation of the faceless others. The real tragedy with the Gabby case, is seeing the physical evidence left behind on the aggressor and not the victim in this.

 

[boltnrun]

50 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

IF that was you, don't wait too long

I'm not worried about that. I am old enough that I'm not looking for a husband or to have children (WAY beyond that age). I feel fine being single. 

[LootieTootie]

Being the "cool girlfriend" always backfires... 

Once I turned 30, I became no non-sense and actually found my backbone and my voice. Once all that, I was able to find my guy who actually treats me good and loves me for me and don't even think about another woman (except Scarlett Johansson).

 

 

[Kwothe28]

16 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

My current boyfriend is an ex-abuser!  He has "recovered" and now counsels other abusers. 

Can one even recover from being an abuser? 

 

I think "patterns" rarely change. Somebody who was comfortable with that kind of a behavior is going to need very strong will to restrain if it comes to the situation. Like an ex alcoholic if you offer them a drink. For example I have an acquitance. He was in a very "toxic" and abusive relationship with his ex wife with who he has a kid. Now he has a girlfriend that is pregnant with his kid. She did "domesticate"him a bit. Meaning that he is not who he was with his ex. But if she angers him I am not really sure he would restrain himself.

People morale code works in a way that people draw the line in the sand that they dont cross. Once they do, that means that the line changed place to where they are now. And that its very hard to get back to the original line as they already crossed it. So I would advise very good caution there. Especially because you both have a history of abuse.

[Batya33]

40 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I think "patterns" rarely change. Somebody who was comfortable with that kind of a behavior is going to need very strong will to restrain if it comes to the situation. Like an ex alcoholic if you offer them a drink. For example I have an acquitance. He was in a very "toxic" and abusive relationship with his ex wife with who he has a kid. Now he has a girlfriend that is pregnant with his kid. She did "domesticate"him a bit. Meaning that he is not who he was with his ex. But if she angers him I am not really sure he would restrain himself.

People morale code works in a way that people draw the line in the sand that they dont cross. Once they do, that means that the line changed place to where they are now. And that its very hard to get back to the original line as they already crossed it. So I would advise very good caution there. Especially because you both have a history of abuse.

I agree -in 2005 I had 4 dates with a recovering drug addict -how he described himself.  I liked him -he was artistic, creative, smart, educated, worldly and quietly confident.  He was also very honest with me -that he couldn't promise he'd never relapse -no recovering addicts could.  Because I had an event where my parents attended too, he met my parents on the 4th date.  I told him directly please do not read into this - they're really cool people and I'm only having you meet them because of my professional event (he didn't listen). 

My mom who is a very tolerant and accommodating person (was married 62 years to my dad who was bipolar) and knew his background said - he's nice but there's something missing -some spark - sort of dullness.  I also realized this but mostly -I realized as I thought about it -the risk of relapse was too much for me to take on despite all the outward trappings of him having his life in order (he was 40).  I'm really glad I didn't keep seeing him.  And from what I can tell I believe he did relapse. 

I think your guy is honorable also for being open about his past.  Obviously he's done a lot of work.  Obviously he's making such a wonderful contribution with his work. Doesn't mean he's a good match for you as a romantic partner.  I would hesitate if I were you because of your past plus you're already seeming to feel bored with how "calm" he is.  Pay attention and be cautious IMO. 

[Starlight925]

When I read stories like the Gabby one, I think:  There but for the grace of G-d go I.

Yes, I, too, have been in a relationship where, although not physical, the emotional abuse became volatile.  It's what led me to find boards like these in the first place.

In my situation, I had moved cross-country to be with the "wuv of my life", even though I saw signs, screaming red flags, flashes of anger.  P

Prior to my move, I was petrified, so I spoke to a therapist, and told her how sweet and wonderful he was, but these flashes of rage would come out.  Very bluntly, she said that someone who has these deep rage issues can only hide them from so long, like a pressure cooker, and that I was heading for a train wreck if I moved.

Of course, I moved.  I put my townhome up for sale, I quit a high-paying job, I acquiesced to jointly buying a  home with him, and, like clockwork, he exploded, every 2-3 weeks.  I left within 4 months.

Because I saw the rage, I played "cool, cool fiancé (yes, we were engaged) until I left.  I was super sweet, warm and wonderful, as I had no place to go until I moved out.  

One of the last weekends I was there, he went out of town, and while I was packing, I found that he had a loaded gun in a hidden bag.

To this day, I realize that I escaped.  20 years later, all is well, and many deep dives into therapy into figuring out why I was drawn to him in the first place, and it's all good.

Just bringing all this up reminds me of that whole time in my life, and if your thread helps one person, then I thank you for it.

[catfeeder]

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

20 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

My current boyfriend is an ex-abuser!  He has "recovered" and now counsels other abusers. 

Can one even recover from being an abuser? 

 

I think "patterns" rarely change. Somebody who was comfortable with that kind of a behavior is going to need very strong will to restrain if it comes to the situation.

I agree. Someone who demonstrably owns the capacity for abuse can cover that over with learned behaviors, but they still own it. The other question to ask is, what can happen if he couples with one with an unconscious propensity to provoke chaos?

[rainbowsandroses]

22 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

The other question to ask is, what can happen if he couples with one with an unconscious propensity to provoke chaos?

I think I may have addressed this^ question earlier, but he doesn't tolerate it.  

Not proud to admit, but early in, I did revert back to my pattern of trying to stir things up, and he saw right through it and chose to NOT participate.

Anyway, I've since recognized this extremely unhealthy pattern, through therapy and other means, and have stopped it.

In response to @Capricorn3 , I called such behavior toxic and dysfunctional, which it was and IS.

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

you're already seeming to feel bored with how "calm" he is. 

I'm definitely not bored, I never said that.  I'm simply learning how to function in a relationship without the chaos (the calm) as it's what's been familiar to me, as explained.  It was my "norm."

I am growing and evolving and learning a new "norm" that's all. 

No way I'm ending it however I will keep eyes wide open and I'm also learning how to balance logic with emotion.

And stay grounded in reality of what IS, not what I wanted it to be, if that makes sense to anyone. 😀

 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think I may have addressed this^ question earlier, but he doesn't tolerate it.  

Not proud to admit, but early in, I did revert back to my pattern of trying to stir things up, and he saw right through it and chose to NOT participate.

Anyway, I've since recognized this extremely unhealthy pattern, through therapy and other means, and have stopped it.

In response to @Capricorn3 , I called such behavior toxic and dysfunctional, which it was and IS.

I'm definitely not bored, I never said that.  I'm simply learning how to function in a relationship without the chaos as it's what's been familiar to me, as explained.  It was my "norm."

I am growing and evolving and learning a new "norm" that's all. 

No way I'm ending it however I will keep eyes wide open and I'm also learning how to balance logic with emotion. 

OK thanks for clarifying - I must have misunderstood and likely was reading between the lines.  I at times mistook drama and chaos etc for the right kind of excitement in a relationship.  I had to become the right person to find the right person.  I respect your opinion and you are in your relationship. I still have the same opinions about the risks of being romantically involved in a serious way in your situation and I respect and defer to your decisions. I also agree with Catfeeder. Good for him for choosing not to participate. I think that helps part of the concerns.  JMHO.

[rainbowsandroses]

For me, and why I stay, knowing he has a history of abuse, I really admire people who have recognized unhealthy and toxic behaviors, have sought treatment which is ongoing, and using what they themselves have learned to help others. 

That is what my boyfriend has done and is doing.  He earned a masters in mental health and works as a counselor treating and helping others. 

He's an awesome human being, a humanitarian like my late dad.  Patient, understanding, "calm."

TBH, I cannot envision how he ever lost his temper, let alone abused anyone, including past girlfriends, he has turned his life around and I have so much respect for him for that.

THAT is why I have chosen to move forward with him despite his past. 

That said, I DO realize my propensity to place the men I love on a pedestal, I did same thing with my late dad! 

I STILL have him (my dad) on that pedestal even though he's gone now after a sudden accident 10 years ago. 

This is a pattern I am aware of and dealing with as best I can. 

It's all a work in progress and probably will be for a very long time, perhaps even forever. 

Thanks again for all your support! 

[boltnrun]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I cannot envision how he ever lost his temper, let alone abused anyone,

This is the case with most abusers.  People they work with, their neighbors, most of their friends will say "He's such a great guy!  Would give you his last dollar!  I can't believe he'd ever do anything like this!"  Abusers are careful to craft a public persona that's beyond reproach.  They're not stupid, drooling, grunting oafs.  Many of them are highly accomplished and highly intelligent.  They know not to abuse in front of other people.

My ex who I mentioned is extremely charismatic.  He's a ton of fun.  He has a great laugh and a great smile.  He's the life of the party.  People are attracted to him.  And behind closed doors he's a mean bully who enjoys inflicting emotional pain.

I'm not sure how long you've known this man (I presume this is "elevator guy"), but I think it's a couple of months max?  So yes, please keep your eyes wide open.  I advise you don't fall into your previous habit of minimizing or making excuses or finding abusive behavior "exciting" or "proof he loves me".  Please take care of you.

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I'm not sure how long you've known this man (I presume this is "elevator guy"), but I think it's a couple of months max?

Yes, it's "elevator guy" and we met and had our first date on November 22nd, so it's been three months, but who's counting! 

It feels longer just cause we've been though so much together, but YES I am keeping eyes wide open. 

I truly do believe people can change through hard work and perseverance when they want to. 

11 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Please take care of you.

Thanks Bolt, I will. 

[Batya33]

32 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

For me, and why I stay, knowing he has a history of abuse, I really admire people who have recognized unhealthy and toxic behaviors, have sought treatment which is ongoing, and using what they themselves have learned to help others. 

That is what my boyfriend has done and is doing.  He earned a masters in mental health and works as a counselor treating and helping others. 

He's an awesome human being, a humanitarian like my late dad.  Patient, understanding, "calm."

Me too - I agree based on what you wrote. I wrote prior that the contributions you've talked about that he has made to men with these mental health issues are impressive indeed and the world is a better place because of people like him. For me -again personally -it was always a separate decision when it came to romantic involvement in anything serious (like the example I gave with the former drug addict).

For me personally I've made similar boundary type decisions with friendships -like a woman I know who's served jail time twice I believe for white collar, now is significantly involved in helping previously incarcerated women, has rehabilitated herself and I will never again want anything to do with her in a personal way as I did prior to learning about her past and then experiencing her almost scamming me and then scamming many I knew and serving time again.  I highly respect her contributions now, I respect her huge effort in rehabiliating herself and once again being a present mom to her teenager -and I will never again risk having personal involvement with her. 

But again I see these as very separate decisions and again I am not in your relationshp and I respect your opinion!

[yogacat]

I think abusers can learn to control their anger and stop being abusive, but it takes a lot of effort and dedication on their part. My father is living proof, albeit, I refused contact with him for YEARS and made him prove himself and learn alternative forms of communication before I allowed him back into my life.

Without the willingness to change and the determination to take responsibility for their actions, abusers will continue to hurt those around them. They need to recognize that their behavior is wrong and harmful, and be committed to making real changes in their mindset and behavior.