Story of Gabby Petito...

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I truly do believe people can change through hard work and perseverance when they want to.

Abuse is voluntary. Every law enforcement and DV specialist knows this. A ranging lunatic will typically act cool as a cucumber when police arrive turning it on and off like a switch.

Abusers chose victims. They're often Mr nice guy to the outside. 

Abusers are like sharks or riptides, everything can appear calm on the surface until you're in too deep. 

[Batya33]

22 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I think abusers can learn to control their anger and stop being abusive, but it takes a lot of effort and dedication on their part. My father is living proof, albeit, I refused contact with him for YEARS and made him prove himself and learn alternative forms of communication before I allowed him back into my life.

Without the willingness to change and the determination to take responsibility for their actions, abusers will continue to hurt those around them. They need to recognize that their behavior is wrong and harmful, and be committed to making real changes in their mindset and behavior.

Absolutely. And the separate question is the extent of the involvement you -the general you- chooses to have with the former abuser.  I'm glad you allowed your father back in your life -it sounds like this was a goal of yours and it was important to you. I forgave my father for his behavior (he was bipolar -I don't know whether he was abusive but it was dysfunctional as they say) - in my 30s.  I always knew his intentions were good and loving so that helped.  But we were not close after I was about 11 - until then -we were but that's another story (close in a positive way).  

[yogacat]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Absolutely. And the separate question is the extent of the involvement you -the general you- chooses to have with the former abuser.  I'm glad you allowed your father back in your life -it sounds like this was a goal of yours and it was important to you. I forgave my father for his behavior (he was bipolar -I don't know whether he was abusive but it was dysfunctional as they say) - in my 30s.  I always knew his intentions were good and loving so that helped.  But we were not close after I was about 11 - until then -we were but that's another story (close in a positive way).  

Agree.

He was terribly abusive from my infant years to about the time I was ten (the years before I was ten were also pretty awful actually). Part of letting my father back into my life was his atonement - owning his behavior and acknowledging it.

I think though getting there required me very deliberately deciding to live my life separate from him and making peace with the fact that how he was when I was a child was a large contributor to my obvious attachment style to whatever degree, and the behaviors I was displaying as an adult at that point - if that makes sense.

It's difficult to overstate the impact that parental relationships has on the psyche -  if you're that lucky to even HAVE a defined relationship with a parental figure or family of any kind - I think for a time I believed that I had been dealt a lousy hand and I fully believed it. I now don't believe that at all - I have a good hand BECAUSE it was the hand I was meant to play.

I don't know if a brick fell on his head or what but he has changed - not once have I caught a whiff of the behavior I remember; he's certainly changed from what I remember. He's a lot more peaceful and self reflective than I ever remember him being that's for sure....For the past several years he has been my rock.

I do love him a lot though, he's been such a help and as much pain he caused when I was growing up he tried his damnedest to make up for it!

I don't think I would be as flexible with a romantic partner because that is a very different dynamic. Parents (usually) let you down on the some level that a romantic partner - is a deal breaker. If you can't build with someone without that trust, or have that trust, it isn't going to go anywhere and you end up back where you started.

My Dad became a parent as an orphan essentially  - I think things about not having parents really affected him and that might have been his effort to compensate for that.

I am glad OP is so welcoming to dating someone that is a former abuser but I can't help but wonder if that's part of the allure, the attraction - that it fulfills some need for familiarity.

[rainbowsandroses]

12 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Part of letting my father back into my life was his atonement - owning his behavior and acknowledging it.

^^Yes, exactly!  My boyfriend has done same and demonstrating that now by getting an advanced degree and counseling others. 

He's pretty amazing at it too!

I appreciate the warnings and again keeping eyes wide open but unless and until I see signs of anything even remotely resembling abuse, I'm not going anywhere. 

Things between us are great, there is no reason to leave. 

The past is history, mine too!!  We live, we learn, we grow, we evolve. I truly believe that. 

[boltnrun]

Therapy aimed at abusers has a much better chance of succeeding when they voluntarily choose to attend than it is for those who are forced into programs either through the court/law enforcement system or by their partners, who tell them to get treatment or else.  

There was someone who posted on here that she was still willing to give her boyfriend a chance despite his FOUR convictions for domestic violence.  He wasn't attending any treatment because of course he doesn't need it!  I fear for that woman.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^Yes, exactly!  My boyfriend has done same and demonstrating that now by getting an advanced degree and counseling others. 

He's pretty amazing at it too!

I appreciate the warnings and again keeping eyes wide open but unless and until I see signs of anything even remotely resembling abuse, I'm not going anywhere. 

Things between us are great, there is no reason to leave. 

The past is history, mine too!!  We live, we learn, we grow, we evolve. I truly believe that. 

Yes most people do live learn, grow evolve, most adults have a past that includes choices that weren't great, mistakes ,etc..  It's a matter of what the history is, type, magnitude, timing, what needs to be learned, etc.   I'm more of a Dr. Phil person - past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior.  I'm glad you're enjoying so far!

[boltnrun]

I don't subscribe to the belief that people can't change and that someone who did something terrible in the past will repeat it for the rest of their lives.  My cousin's son served time in prison for a really bad crime (not murder or manslaughter, a property crime).  He got out and has not so much as gotten a speeding ticket since.  He has a good job as a truck driver and is a solid, law-abiding citizen.  But some people would claim he's a risk due to his past and that he'll probably re-offend.  I don't think he will.  But women can choose to avoid him as it's not mandatory that someone date him.

I have been unfaithful in a relationship.  You know that old adage "Once a cheater always a cheater"?  Well, I can attest that's not true.  I will never again be unfaithful in a relationship.  Cheating is selfish, wrong, immoral and causes so much damage.  I will never subject anyone to that ever again.  I am ashamed and feel remorse. If it was possible I would go back and make different choices.  All I can do is do better for the rest of my life.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

My cousin's son served time in prison for a really bad crime (not murder or manslaughter, a property crime).  He got out and has not so much as gotten a speeding ticket since.  He has a good job as a truck driver and is a solid, law-abiding citizen.  But some people would claim he's a risk due to his past and that he'll probably re-offend.  I don't think he will.  But women can choose to avoid him as it's not mandatory that someone date him.

I love those true stories and I agree.  And agree that dating is different as far as what it means about judgment, choice etc.  I'm glad he was able to get a good job as I think there are sometimes restrictions on hiring someone with a record etc.  But I know they vary by state, type of job etc. What a success story!

[rainbowsandroses]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'm more of a Dr. Phil person - past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. 

I don't disagree with that, but there are always exceptions.  And why I am paying close attention and if I see any signs, I will leave.

I live in reality now, not never-never land where I had been living. 

That is what this thread is about.  Me recognizing old toxic patterns and choosing a different path.  Which IS what my boyfriend is doing as well. 

It was HIS choice to seek help which is still ongoing!  As a counselor himself now, it's actually required although he would even if it wasn't required.

And what about me?  What does MY history say about me?  Should he or any man not enter a relationship with me because of my past poor choices and actions? 

Rhetorical questions, just something to consider and don't mean to get defensive.

This thread is going in a direction I prefer it not to go, that's all.. 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I don't disagree with that, but there are always exceptions.  And why I am paying close attention and if I see any signs, I will leave.

I live in reality now, not never-never land where I had been living. 

That is what this thread is about.  Me recognizing old toxic patterns and choosing a different path.  Which IS what my boyfriend is doing as well. 

It was HIS choice to seek help which is still ongoing!  As a counselor himself now, it's actually required although he would even if it wasn't required.

And what about me?  What does MY history say about me?  Should he or any man not enter a relationship with me because of my past poor choices? 

Rhetorical questions, just something to consider and don't mean to get defensive.

This thread is going in a direction I prefer it not to go, that's all.. 

 

 

 

Everything has exceptions.  You have chosen the path of getting involved and then looking for signs/eyes wide open.  Others would choose not to get involved romantically and perhaps -if they felt as impressed as you are -get involved as a volunteer in his endeavors, become friendly, etc. -there are different approaches to reacting to the belief that a person with a past has moved forward and evolved as you say.

Please do not ever compare your past to his - apples and oranges. I am surprised you'd even compare. As I wrote -with exceptions! -most adults have a past.  My husband and I did -with each other -so trying again meant a choice of course -a risk!  For us -personally -had the past included cheating on each other I am positive we never ever would have gotten back together. Or abuse.  But that's just us.

I would say - I read what you say as if you've known him far longer than you have.  That's my impression.  

I am sorry you're not pleased with the direction of the thread.

[rainbowsandroses]

10 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I don't subscribe to the belief that people can't change and that someone who did something terrible in the past will repeat it for the rest of their lives.  My cousin's son served time in prison for a really bad crime (not murder or manslaughter, a property crime).  He got out and has not so much as gotten a speeding ticket since.  He has a good job as a truck driver and is a solid, law-abiding citizen.  But some people would claim he's a risk due to his past and that he'll probably re-offend.  I don't think he will.  But women can choose to avoid him as it's not mandatory that someone date him.

I have been unfaithful in a relationship.  You know that old adage "Once a cheater always a cheater"?  Well, I can attest that's not true.  I will never again be unfaithful in a relationship.  Cheating is selfish, wrong, immoral and causes so much damage.  I will never subject anyone to that ever again.  I am ashamed and feel remorse. If it was possible I would go back and make different choices.  All I can do is do better for the rest of my life.

Thank you for sharing this^ Bolt, and I wholeheartedly agree. 

[Seraphim]

I think SOME people can change definitely not all. 

[boltnrun]

42 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I think SOME people can change definitely not all. 

It requires a sincere desire to change. Not just saying the right words but actually taking ownership and responsibility and then taking action to make the changes. 

"It just happened" or "I made a 'mistake'" or "I was drunk" isn't good enough IMO. No one made me do bad things. I didn't accidentally do them. I chose to. But I will never do those things again. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

.his thread is going in a direction I prefer it not to go, that's all.

The thread is about abusive relationships in general, no? There's no point placing bets as to whether your BF changed for good or not.

Only time will tell and the relationship is too new to predict anything at this point. 

[rainbowsandroses]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Only time will tell and the relationship is too new to predict anything at this point. 

My sentiments exactly.   All I or any woman (or man) can do is  continue keeping eyes open and stay grounded in reality. 

I know the signs, what to look for and if see anything even remotely resembling abuse, I leave. 

P.S. Yes, this thread is about abusive relationships which my current relationship is not.   That's why I didn't like its direction.

However, I did mention my boyfriend was an abuser in the past and asked if an abuser can change, and people are responding to that, so I take back that comment.

It's a great discussion actually!  

 

[Seraphim]

33 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

It requires a sincere desire to change. Not just saying the right words but actually taking ownership and responsibility and then taking action to make the changes. 

"It just happened" or "I made a 'mistake'" or "I was drunk" isn't good enough IMO. No one made me do bad things. I didn't accidentally do them. I chose to. But I will never do those things again. 

Exactly sincere effort and taking ownership has to be present . Those people are most likely successful. 

[Capricorn3]

25 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I know the signs, what to look for and if see anything even remotely resembling abuse, I leave.

I think the biggest concern with abusive relationships is that so many women do recognize the signs but yet they still stay. They have a million reasons why they stay from "but I love him", "but he's mostly a good guy", "I couldn't leave", "I have nowhere to go" etc etc.  I think that's what's concerning/worrying.

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship before?  If so, did you recognize the signs? Did you leave immediately?  (This is not picking on you, btw, just general thoughts buzzing around in my head).

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^Yes, exactly!  My boyfriend has done same and demonstrating that now by getting an advanced degree and counseling others. 

He's pretty amazing at it too!

I appreciate the warnings and again keeping eyes wide open but unless and until I see signs of anything even remotely resembling abuse, I'm not going anywhere. 

Things between us are great, there is no reason to leave. 

The past is history, mine too!!  We live, we learn, we grow, we evolve. I truly believe that. 

Do you think it's possible that your current (or prior, not sure if it's still the same for you) attraction to chaos and your previous romantic experiences with several abusive men may be connected? Sometimes our past experiences can subconsciously affect our present choices. And if each of your past relationships were with abusive men, it's important to acknowledge that past behavior is often a good predictor of future actions. Of course, with your newfound self-awareness, you may be able to spot red flags more quickly and protect yourself.

But it's also important to recognize that there may be a hidden agenda within yourself to continue with this type of pattern. I'm not saying that your boyfriend is necessarily abusive, but it's something to be mindful of. Many people who have been in abusive relationships would be more cautious and take things slower in their next relationships, building a solid foundation of friendship first. They would also spend a lot of time reflecting on their past experiences.

I do know people who have found the right person after going through bad relationships. And I do hope that's the case for you. I know this thread is about abuse and since you shared details about your boyfriend's past, it's only natural for people to ask questions and share their perspectives. I'm not trying to change your perception of the situation, but perhaps just encouraging you to look at it from a more objective standpoint. 

[rainbowsandroses]

25 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Do you think it's possible that your current (or prior, not sure if it's still the same for you) attraction to chaos and your previous romantic experiences with several abusive men may be connected? Sometimes our past experiences can subconsciously affect our present choices. And if each of your past relationships were with abusive men, it's important to acknowledge that past behavior is often a good predictor of future actions. Of course, with your newfound self-awareness, you may be able to spot red flags more quickly and protect yourself.

But it's also important to recognize that there may be a hidden agenda within yourself to continue with this type of pattern. I'm not saying that your boyfriend is necessarily abusive, but it's something to be mindful of. Many people who have been in abusive relationships would be more cautious and take things slower in their next relationships, building a solid foundation of friendship first. They would also spend a lot of time reflecting on their past experiences.

I do know people who have found the right person after going through bad relationships. And I do hope that's the case for you. I know this thread is about abuse and since you shared details about your boyfriend's past, it's only natural for people to ask questions and share their perspectives. I'm not trying to change your perception of the situation, but perhaps just encouraging you to look at it from a more objective standpoint. 

Time will tell @yogacat. 

And yes I did mention my current boyfriend's past and asked if abusers can change so I took my previous comment about not liking this thread's direction back in my previous post. 

I don't know why I feel so drawn to my boyfriend.  Our energy /chemistry /attraction, how we relate to each other and connect?  

He hasn't so much as raised his voice to me, I have never seen him lose his temper with anyone, he gets along well with everyone and has a calming presence, in my life and generally. 

I've mentioned that this relationship is different from any other I've had where I felt anxious, on edge, with periods of tension and chaos mixed with peace and harmony.  

IOW, hot/cold, up/down.  Just like how I felt growing up with my abusive mom.

So no I don't think my attraction has much to do with his past history, he is a completely different person now from what I have seen.

So am I!! 

Which is perhaps why we connect so well on some sort of unconscious level?

I honestly don't know but so far so good, we're happy. 

I would not be there if we weren't.

But again, time will tell, it's only been three months. 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

16 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Time will tell @yogacat. 

And yes I did mention my current boyfriend's past and asked if abusers can change so I took my previous comment about not liking this thread's direction back in my previous post. 

I don't know why I feel so drawn to my boyfriend.  Our energy /chemistry /attraction, how we relate to each other and connect?  

He hasn't so much as raised his voice to me, I have never seen him lose his temper with anyone, he gets along with everyone and has a calming presence.

I've mentioned that this relationship is different from any other I've had where I felt anxious, on edge, with periods of tension and chaos mixed with peace and harmony.  

IOW, hit/cold, up/down.  Just like how I felt growing up with my abusive mom.

So no I don't think my attraction has much to do with his past history, he is a completely different person now from what I have seen.

So am I!! 

 

 

 

 

Never mind (and no I do not think you are currently in an abusive situation -sounds like you're having fun dating him and getting to know each other!)

[rainbowsandroses]

Guys, just to know, for me this thread has been amazing!  And I hope anyone reading, including non-members, find value from it and from Gabby's story.

I sure did!  Which is why I created the thread.  

My guy will be here in a few, we're heading out for the evening, but please continue with your thoughts (or questions), and I will check back later tonight or tomorrow.  😀

 

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

 

Never mind (and no I do not think you are currently in an abusive situation...

Bat, my post commenting on that (bolded) was in response to the below post from @yogacat:

39 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Do you think it's possible that your current ( ) attraction to chaos and your previous romantic experiences with several abusive men may be connected?

 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Bat, my post commenting on that (bolded) was in response to the below post from @yogacat:

 

Oh I see why you might read it that way -I thought you were indicating that people responding thought that generally.  

I'm sorry about your challenging childhood.  I can relate.

[Wiseman2]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:51 PM, rainbowsandroses said:

 if they weren't creating chaos and drama, I would (or attempt to) 

It's good you are trying to resist manufacturing chaos (Google it).

Keep in mind that people who manufacture chaos may just be amusing themselves with drama,.

But more importantly, they are trying to control things by keeping everyone off balance and being the one in charge of the whole puppet show they're creating. 

Please also keep in mind that while not intended to be abusive it does harm others. 

[Batya33]

I hope this is on topic. I hope especially younger women take from this tragedy to know their worth and to act accordingly when things seem off in that way. It’s so hard. I always appreciate when the families who have faced these tragedies then do or get involved in outreach. I tried to caution a friend’s daughter years ago about a bad guy. I was asked to by both mother and daughter. But it was largely ineffective as she was so drawn to him. When she finally ended it he attempted to trash her reputation. It was awful. I do not think he physically abused her. Later she got involved with another bad guy who showered her with gifts. Then sued her frivolously.  

it’s very very hard to watch this as I think someone else posted. When friends and family do their best to intervene. And there may be some lip service but no real movement. So I hope maybe this family is raising awareness. Again as someone posted it’s “better” now as there are more resources and perhaps less stigma.