All that shines is gold...?

[Agile Wit]

Let’s consider 2 guys:

The “Smart Guy” is average-looking, but smart, charming, and generous.

The “Handsome Guy” is very good-looking, but self-centered, selfish, and boring.

Let’s assume all other things (like their material status) are equal.

They both have a chance to strike up a conversation for say, 30 minutes, then ask for a woman’s phone number.

In your opinion, what percentage of women will give their number to

A. The “Smart Guy”

B. The “Handsome Guy”

[Capricorn3]

3 minutes ago, Agile Wit said:

The “Smart Guy” is average-looking, but smart, charming, and generous.

The “Handsome Guy” is good-looking, but self-centered, selfish, and boring.

Let’s assume all other things (like their material status) are equal.

In your opinion, what percentage of women will give their number to

Not sure if I understand this correctly, but are you saying both guys are married and you're wondering how many women would give their number to either one or the other? 🤔

Is this some kind of study you're doing?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Agile Wit said:

They both have a chance to strike up a conversation for say, 30 minutes, then ask for a woman’s phone number.

Are you the "smart guy"? Why worry about percentages? If you are interested in a woman you are trying to converse with you can ask her out.

  If you are trying to assess pickup artist techniques,  collecting phone numbers often backfires. Also reading too much manosphere and incels rhetoric about genetic lotteries and women passing over the good guys for hot jerks doesn't help. 

All you have to do is see if you have a connection and ask them out. 

[MissCanuck]

Eh, questions like this are silly because they are too broad and don't take any sort of relevant variables (of the women or the 30-minute encounter, in this case) into account. 

Why are you asking? 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Agile Wit said:

Let’s consider 2 guys:

The “Smart Guy” is average-looking, but smart, charming, and generous.

The “Handsome Guy” is very good-looking, but self-centered, selfish, and boring.

Let’s assume all other things (like their material status) are equal.

They both have a chance to strike up a conversation for say, 30 minutes, then ask for a woman’s phone number.

In your opinion, what percentage of women will give their number to

A. The “Smart Guy”

B. The “Handsome Guy”

It's silly to assume the woman would be interested in a 30 minute conversation with a stranger and if it was preplanned as part of a study the study would be flawed because of how artificial/forced it is.  Also factors like why are they giving their number - a woman who wants to have sex with a handsome looking man likely would.  A woman who wants a date for an event -like a plus one -might for the arm candy appeal.  Also depends on whether boring/selfish man makes that impression during a 30 minute conversation and whether both parties are sober and whether the woman is a person with a mental health or disability or otherwise such that she is not good at judging these things especially in a brief conversation. 

And depends on the individual woman's standards about giving contact info to strangers-might depend on her profession or job. And how the number is asked for or whether the woman offered her number first.

Personally when I was single I would have been likely to give my number to the first if I was physically attracted to him -which was separate from whether he had arm candy appeal.  I can't see why I'd give my number to someone I found boring. No purpose in talking further.

 

[lostandhurt]

What is the point of your question?

[smackie9]

As soon as the self-centered guy opens his mouth he becomes the most unattractive guy in the room.

Come on dude..us women ain't that stupid.

[Cherylyn]

I can't speak for all women but my vote is for smart guy who also happens to be generous,  kind,  empathetic and a keeper.  Most women shop around.

With handsome guy,  good looks eventually fade and if he's boring,  self centered and selfish,  run for the hills.  I know an in-law who is like that and he's a nightmare to live with.  ☹️

 

[Coily]

Easy 50/50 chance for either.

[Agile Wit]

Sorry if my question was ambiguous. The key point I was trying to convey is how much weight physical attraction will carry vs. the personality. When asking, I assumed all other things were equal (like money status, marital status, etc. )

And no, this is not a survey, just something many men are often wondering about "Can I make up the appearance shortcomings with other, less tangible things?"

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Agile Wit said:

Sorry if my question was ambiguous. The key point I was trying to convey is how much weight physical attraction will carry vs. the personality. When asking, I assumed all other things were equal (like money status, marital status, etc. )

And no, this is not a survey, just something many men are often wondering about "Can I make up the appearance shortcomings with other, less tangible things?"

Physical attraction in person is essential for a romantic relationship and essential if someone is going to go on more than one or two dates - and complete repulsion means no first date or first meet.

To me physical attraction is based very little on physical features -especially not on physical features we have little to no control over like height.  It is based on appearance from within -how the person carries himself/eye contact/posture/vibes/energy/sparkle.  To me physical attraction so often is not tangible at all.  

For me there were certain tangible physical appearance things that were dealbreakers for me personally for dating -tattoos, long or unkempt hair, inappropriate clothing for where we were at the time, piercings.  Those are all choices that person makes.  Typically I was not physically attracted to very tall and skinny men or to obese men.  Much of the time obesity is within someone's control.  I fully respect if a skinny person is not interested in developing muscles, etc - that is that person's choice.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Agile Wit said:

 "Can I make up the appearance shortcomings with other, less tangible things?"

Are you concerned about your appearance and getting dates? There are plenty of qualities women look for. There needs to be a basic attraction but that includes the whole package. 

Also what type of women are you looking for and how are you going about meeting women in reality (not a hypothetical half-hour conversation trying to picking up women and collecting numbers). 

[JoyfulCompany]

2 hours ago, Agile Wit said:

"Can I make up the appearance shortcomings with other, less tangible things?"

Yes, but I wouldn't phrase it like this. A person is not a disjointed bag of body features and character traits. There's some unique spirit that combines all of it together that makes the overall impression to others. Different people find different things attractive. Let's not go for the millionth time down the rabbit hole of "then how would you explain conventionally unattractive people having relationship experience and/or being in LTR".

If you decide to view the world in a superficial way - the world will answer in a superficial competition-like way. Why? Because that's what you choose to see from everything that exists. That's how you choose to interpret it.

Will I deny that there are pressuring collective perceptions and expectations? That some people live up to them? No. But I don't think everyone needs to agree and adopt them automatically. I certainly don't.

[rainbowsandroses]

6 hours ago, Agile Wit said:

Sorry if my question was ambiguous. The key point I was trying to convey is how much weight physical attraction will carry vs. the personality

It's an impossible question to answer because (1) physical attraction is subjective -  what one woman (or man if roles are reversed) finds physically attractive, another woman might NOT.  

Happened to me plenty where I found a man completely HOT physically, I was completely enthralled with him, and my friends not so much.

The reason goes to no (2) which is his vibe, his energy, his style, his PRESENCE, his self-confidence and yes his personality which are unique to each person and can actually turn an average looking man into a GOD in a particular woman's eyes. 

Women are not robots, programmed to like and be attracted to the same qualities, there is SO much involved in becoming "attracted to" a person.  Beyond, looks, money and status. 

To judge attraction in such a superficial, programmed, robotic way is completely missing the boat.

And if that's what you're doing OP, then it's no surprise you don't attract women and it has very little if anything to do with your appearance imo.  Or even your personality.

All facets of a man are combined which make up his "presence," his "essence" as a man and THAT is what a particular woman (singlar) is ultimately drawn to at the end of the day imo and experience.

 

 

[Crawfords Wine]

5 hours ago, Agile Wit said:

The key point I was trying to convey is how much weight physical attraction will carry vs. the personality.

Being physically attractive is hugely subjective.
You may find someone wildly attractive who to me is just meh, and vice versa.

Looks are also often magnified by personality.
Someone may not be conventionally attractive, but their personality makes their looks sparkle.
Someone who is conventionally attractive, but dull as nuts underneath, will likely lose all but the most ardently superficial members of their audience.

[Kwothe28]

Ah, another "blackpiller"(or is it the same one as before) seeking to prove his beliefs truth. Yes, people will most often go for physical attributes. Hence why pretty and handsome people go more easily trough life. Not only in dating but in other aspects of life as well. There are literally research that prove how they do better regarding jobs. And not just jobs where looks is required. They are more likely to get hired, get better evaluation or even salary. Its a huge advantage.

However that doesnt mean that looks is everything. Looks is a huge advantage. But pretty people still get stuck not only regarding jobs, but regarding dating as well. Your "blackpill religion" tells you looks is everything and regarding women, that its genetic and cant be improved through self- improvement. Which by definition is not truth. Not only you can change it with various factors(exercise, clothes, haircut, even plastic surgery) but its also not a finite determining factor in life. Its just an advantagable one. Hence why some made it based on it and some just dont.

[Jaunty]

5 hours ago, Agile Wit said:

 The key point I was trying to convey is how much weight physical attraction will carry vs. the personality.

Well ... physical appearance is immediately there for all to see.  Personality takes some time to be revealed and this can be strongly influenced by a lot of external factors.   Is someone going to have the opportunity to reveal how "smart" or generous they are to a complete stranger within 30 minutes of meeting them?

 

[Batya33]

Also physical features matter more if the person is looking to hook up vs. get to know the person and potentially go on a proper date.

[Cherylyn]

It's the package for me.  Not only physical attraction but what type of human being is he?  Is he careful with his words?  Is he kind not just to me but to others?  Is he trustworthy?  Humble?  Sincere?  Has a good heart?  Considerate?  Peaceful?  Uncomplicated?  Doesn't have bad habits such as gaslighting?  Is he neat and clean or a slob?  Is he conscientious overall?  Is he financially strong? 

It's everything for me because it's my personal preference.  I agree with @Batya33 regarding no tattoos nor body piercings,  no disheveled hair,  neat haircut,  appropriate clothing, etc.  I have nothing against other people who do as they will but for me when choosing my husband,  it's simply what I preferred.  I like a clean cut guy,  general overall neat appearance,  always clean and tidy. 

I think of long term life and how a man is to live with.  I want a secure, content life together.  I realize not everyone is the same and it is fine.  It's just the way I am.  🤗

[catfeeder]

14 hours ago, Agile Wit said:

"Can I make up the appearance shortcomings with other, less tangible things?"

Yes. You. Can.

I might enjoy looking at attractive people, but I can do that from a screen. The sexiest things to me are intelligence, warmth and humor.

[waffle]

But what if it's a handsome guy who is smart and interesting and not selfish or self-centered?  What then?

Just because someone is good-looking doesn't automatically mean they are an awful person.  

[boltnrun]

32 minutes ago, waffle said:

But what if it's a handsome guy who is smart and interesting and not selfish or self-centered?  What then?

Just because someone is good-looking doesn't automatically mean they are an awful person.  

My cousin is a tall, very good looking man. He's also moral, decent, hard working, educated, and faithful to his wife and family. And his wife isn't a size two supermodel type. She's about 30 pounds overweight and is not what you would call conventionally pretty. But he's devoted to her. 

Allegedly he should have had dozens of women falling all over him. But he's humble and doesn't have "game". He's just a really neat guy. 

[Kwothe28]

47 minutes ago, waffle said:

But what if it's a handsome guy who is smart and interesting and not selfish or self-centered?  What then?

 

I think he is only interested in hypothetical scenario that would prove that women value looks over anything else. Not in a scenario where looks already has everything. That he as a blackpiller already assumes without hypothetical scenarios lol

[boltnrun]

3 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I think he is only interested in hypothetical scenario that would prove that women value looks over anything else. Not in a scenario where looks already has everything. That he as a blackpiller already assumes without hypothetical scenarios lol

Unless the unattractive guy has a lot of money. Then "women" will flock to him. 

There's going to be shallowness in some people. But using "all women only want good looking men" or "all women only want wealthy men" as an excuse for why women aren't attracted to you (the general you) is lazy. Most couples are made up of average or below average looking people.

Of course, then the old "but I'm only attracted to tall women with model looks! I shouldn't have to date women I'm not attracted to!" excuse is trotted out.

SSDD

[AndieA]

I think this is a very interesting question, because I believe the average woman would actually be more attracted to the personality (A) more than looks (B), if the looks are part of a self-centered bore, and that this comes across in the initial meeting/conversation.  But I do not think the reverse is true.  I think men are much more likely to ask out, even marry, a beautiful woman, even if she is high maintenance, self-centered, gold-digging and boring.  Just my observations of quite a few of my classmates, no scientific study I have done.  I have also observed the men who complain that all women want are handsome rich men, are just as shallow when they choose women.