Got a job offer, and I need your objective advice

[DarkCh0c0]

Hi everyone! 

I just got back to my country, and while I just landed here, I was able to immediately score an interview and land an executive job offer. 

However, my gut feeling is negative. I almost feel nauseous thinking about going to the office, even though I accepted the offer. Once I said yes to it today, I started feeling unwell. Instead of feeling like celebrating, I'm scared. 

This is because the workplace comes with some red flags: 

- CEO sucked at communication and interviewing. He asked some irrelevant and borderline inappropriate questions during our meeting to screen me and my class background. He tried to find everything that could be wrong in my CV and questioned me on it (why did you job hop here, what would the manager here from 10 years ago say about you, why did your previous employer not find someone local, ect.) instead of focusing on my long tenure and experience at my last job.

- The Manager who I'd report to as well did a better job in interviewing me, but not great. Both did not tell me much about the company and its goals.

- It's become clear to me that there's a problem in my department. The HR person whom I'm replacing and the one who would report to me are both leaving. So there's a turnover problem. 

- The key department to the company's success is chronically suffering from a high turnover with people leaving and badmouthing the company. They can't find people who stick around long enough for 1 or 2+ years in that department. The management wants ME to come in and solve it all.

 

The pros are:

- Good salary considering the financial crisis

- Finally, a good title after all my hard work

- I'd be the head of HR, so I'd set the tone and pace for my department.

My current feeling is no with a bit of uneasiness. The turnover tells me that sadly there's a big managerial problem, and I suffered from it a lot in my last role, picking up the slack and workload and being mentally unwell. However, as head of HR, I'd be able to maybe make some changes.

What do you guys think as you read this objectively?

I'm meant to start on Monday. My parent says I can try it out for a couple of day and figure out if it is for me or not. I could leave anytime during probation period. I'm verging on calling them back and saying "you know what, no thanks". A recruiter at a big company got in touch with me today for a role I'd applied for, and they are offering an even better salary. I had to reject them because the work location was way far away. So there's hope to find something else that's suitable. I'm torn as I'm afraid that I won't find anything else like this, even though that's not true.

[TeeDee]

Me thinks you accepted this job too quickly.  You should have checked with that recruiter before you said yes to this. That level of quick decision making followed by regret & a plan to job hop again makes me question your work ethic.  

Even if you should have listened to your gut, you didn't.  Now you have to honor that commitment, IMO.  

Look at the positives.  View yourself as an agent of change.  Maybe nobody ever educated the CEO or the manager about better ways to manage people.  I'm reading a book about workplace EQ & these people seem to have missed some of that but with a little diplomacy you may be able to elevate the workplace. 

Do plan to stick it out for at least 6 months if not a year.  With the higher salary & better title this position may be a great launch pad for an even better job.  

[DarkCh0c0]

17 minutes ago, TeeDee said:

Me thinks you accepted this job too quickly.  You should have checked with that recruiter before you said yes to this. That level of quick decision making followed by regret & a plan to job hop again makes me question your work ethic

I'm guilty of this. I'm usually more careful and level-headed, but my individual recent circumstances have made me make decisions out of fear due to my recent long bad job and a struggling local economy.

They also put pressure on me to give them an instant answer to the job offer over the phone! But I asked them for a second meeting instead to screen them out further, and that was when I found out about the turnovers. I also tried to negotiate the salary, but they wouldn't budge because I was already asking for an amount above their budget. They just want instant answers and I already find myself rushed and pushing back. It must be hard for them to find someone who is up to all of their red flags.

17 minutes ago, TeeDee said:

Look at the positives.  View yourself as an agent of change.  Maybe nobody ever educated the CEO or the manager about better ways to manage people

I'm aware of this. Very much. I kept giving the CEO and manager excuses like "nobody has trained them in this" and thinking that I would, ect. But the red flags are making me hesitant.

17 minutes ago, TeeDee said:

Do plan to stick it out for at least 6 months if not a year.  With the higher salary & better title this position may be a great launch pad for an even better job.  

Could be. But I don't owe them anything. If this is indeed as toxic as I imagine it to be, I'm walking away quickly. I've been there and stuck it out just for my CV. Not worth my now fragile mental health. Because of my last job, I'm scared and feel disheartened. I'm all over the place when it comes to this decision.... Yes, no, yes, no. Gut says no, but this is good on paper. Smh...😓 I'm so sad I got myself to this point.

[Kwothe28]

No. That is why you always browse the internet for reviews of place. People leaving and badmouthing the company means that despite whatever they give you, you will suffer. Workload would maybe be insane, coworkers and Bosses are maybe insane too, and despite big salary(if they even deliver on that, in my country they are known for big promises that dont deliver later, dunno about yours) you would just feel miserable there with no way of leaving for a while. And it will maybe hurt your future employment with bad review from them. 

This smells "trouble" all over it. 

 

[boltnrun]

Have you signed the offer yet?

Think about what would happen if you contacted the company to say you've decided to decline the offer. Then think about rebuttals to those things.

The company will be fine, BTW. They should have other candidates but if they don't that is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

Or, you could take the job and spend the entire time being miserable. An "opportunity" isn't doing you any good if you're anxious and frantic all the time. 

[DarkCh0c0]

17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Have you signed the offer yet?

None yet. I sign the contract on my first day on Monday. BUT I can leave anytime during my probation with no notice. And I don't have to ever mention it on my CV.

28 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

And it will maybe hurt your future employment with bad review from them. 

Could be, but I'd never mention them on my CV just for spending a week or two there. 

17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Think about what would happen if you contacted the company to say you've decided to decline the offer. Then think about rebuttals to those things.

That would be my choice to do tomorrow. I can always say I got an offer elsewhere and I'm withdrawing the application. Happens all the time with my candidates through my work in recruitment. It happens quite often.

[DarkCh0c0]

29 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Workload would maybe be insane, coworkers and Bosses are maybe insane too, and despite big salary(if they even deliver on that, in my country they are known for big promises that dont deliver later, dunno about yours) you would just feel miserable there with no way of leaving for a while.

They did mention there's a heavy workload sometimes. I got the impression the CEO is a man who runs the business like it's his own grocery store if you get my drift. The power and authority is centralized with him. I also got the feeling he is a red type, so he will lash out when things don't go his way. I've been there and done that. The manager under him is sneakier... She will bend over to his ridiculous demands and opinions to keep her status and job. I got the feeling she's not so experienced. They are both very open and willing for me to make changes though.

[tattoobunnie]

Be the positive change.  People leave a job for many reasons.  And the CEO grilling you, it's to see how you do under pressure.  If you want to be in the big leagues, you need to learn how to rise above with less than pleasant people.  I mean, if you want happy and easy, then take on a less of a challenge.

My hubs has worked for million to a few multibillion companies - there's also a dysfunction the higher up you go, and always an opportunity to make it better.

[DarkCh0c0]

19 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Be the positive change

It's all nice and dandy until you are affected by the dysfunction.

The CEO grilling was fine. I responded well to that cause I've had worse. But just because I've had worse doesn't mean I have to do it again. I've worked with some terrible c-level people. I just see them now from the outside as people who want stuff done. The problem is when their behaviour stops their companies from moving forward and expanding. It's when their team starts to suffer and turnover is high. This seems to be the case atm. The staff leaving and saying terrible things is quite telling.

25 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

If you want to be in the big leagues, you need to learn how to rise above with less than pleasant people.  I mean, if you want happy and easy, then take on a less of a challenge

The challenge is not my issue. It's the toxic management. I'm able to rise above it, but I'd like to do have a job surrounded with better people for once. 

[boltnrun]

I work for a massive international corporation. I've found that some locations are fantastic and well-managed (like the one I'm lucky enough to work at) and others are sh*t shows (like one I occasionally am asked to help support). I don't think being successful or having a high powered career means you have to put up with toxicity.  

If you're already fairly certain this is not the right job for you, why bother even starting?

And I also agree that knee-jerk accepting of job offers doesn't serve you well. It's OK to take a few days to consider if it's the right fit. 

[DarkCh0c0]

4 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

And I also agree that knee-jerk accepting of job offers doesn't serve you well. It's OK to take a few days to consider if it's the right fit. 

I know. I don't usually do that. But with this one I feel so rushed. They asked me to answer on the spot over a call, but I pushed back and said I need time to think. Then I asked for a small meeting to clear out some concerns, and the meeting brought to my attention the turnover issues. Then I tried to ask for a higher salary when I received the written offer. So I extended my time to think for 5 days. Not so knee jerk, but I folded eventually. I'm human... That's what I learn about me.

9 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

If you're already fairly certain this is not the right job for you, why bother even starting?

That's my dilemma. Idk if it's just my fears from my previous job making me scared like this, or if it's just a terrible decision anyways. I've been burned badly... I don't want to go through that ringer again.

[DarkCh0c0]

@Andrina @Batya33 do you mind if I enlist your help ladies?

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

I've been burned badly... I don't want to go through that ringer again.

And you shouldn't have to.  You are not obligated to stay even if you do decide to start on Monday.  There's a probationary period for both the employer and yourself so if you find after one week, two weeks it's not for you, then you're free to leave.

You literally have nothing to lose, it's not like you're locked into a one-year contract or commitment.  I mean you could even leave after the first day if you wanted.

Like you said, no need to put on your CV so your departure would have no negative repercussions. 

Something to also consider, IF you decide to decline their original offer, there is also the possibility you may second guess THAT decision.

If me, I'd start on Monday and see what it's all about.  Pay attention and get a "feel" for the place.   

Again you literally have nothing to lose @DarkCh0c0.

Keep us posted!

 

[rainbowsandroses]

@DarkCh0c0  I also want to add, I am always anxious before starting a new job, and that goes for jobs where there are no red flags and everything seems perfect!

So I don't think your anxiety is unusual and I also don't think it's necessarily a bad omen.

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide.

 

 

[Kwothe28]

2 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

They did mention there's a heavy workload sometimes.

There is always something. Otherwise people wouldnt leave frequently. That here usually means that they dont pay good or that company culture and relations within are very bad. That means anything from heavy workload to coworkers stabbing each other in the back. Its never a good sign when they have frequent changes of staff. Because some may leave to pursue better opportunities but if lots of them does that, something is way off. Otherwise they would be glad to stay and work there. Even worst, you are in HR and its your job to deal with that. I bet human relations there are nightmare.

[boltnrun]

I worked somewhere where I was the most senior employee in the office after THREE WEEKS. Yep, in that three weeks everyone else quit (except the owner's wife). That place was horribly toxic.

Money and fancy titles can't make up for a toxic work environment IMO. 

[catfeeder]

They've demonstrated their ethics by pressuring you to answer the offer on the spot.

Go easy on yourself about that, but understand, it would be the first of many such pressures. How many times will you want to kick yourself for operating under such pressure, only to regret it? Even if it's only a day or two, why subject yourself to even one more encounter with these people?

You were not impressed with either person to whom you'd report. Of course, they told you that you'd be welcome to make changes. That's easy for them to say while they know full well that they, themselves, are the very barriers you'd face to change anything.

I can only tell you where I'd stand, and it would be a quick call tomorrow to avoid ruining my stomach lining over the weekend.

[Batya33]

23 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

They've demonstrated their ethics by pressuring you to answer the offer on the spot.

Go easy on yourself about that, but understand, it would be the first of many such pressures. How many times will you want to kick yourself for operating under such pressure, only to regret it? Even if it's only a day or two, why subject yourself to even one more encounter with these people?

You were not impressed with either person to whom you'd report. Of course, they told you that you'd be welcome to make changes. That's easy for them to say while they know full well that they, themselves, are the very barriers you'd face to change anything.

I can only tell you where I'd stand, and it would be a quick call tomorrow to avoid ruining my stomach lining over the weekend.

I'm not as convinced but would follow this advice as well.  I've worked in toxic environments as well -one I was taken to by my mentor and our team from another company so I really didn't interview.  Another I was fresh out of college and he also pressured me to accept -and sign a 5 year contract (long story -not a private company)- I then had to go do my official contract signing at a huge agency with a lot of other people -a stranger looked over at me, saw where I was about to sign up with and told me not to do it -can you imagine?? Of course -well -I didn't listen -a stranger? She or he was right.  And call it coincidence but I got very sick the first day of orientation -at the location- and when I got up to leave at the end of the day the boss mocked me "always the new people who leave first" 

I ended up hospitalized with an infection -only time in my life - and realized what a mistake I'd made - also other employees had come up to me that day to warn me etc.  I was able to get out of the contract thank goodness and I never actually worked there.  Someone I guess was sort of smiling over me.  Maybe hospitalization was sort of a blessing.  I did learn my lesson after that as far as vetting places to work (and no internet to look to until much later)

I work for and with really good people the last 7 years. We all work very hard.  It is a really good place to work and I cannot tell you what a difference it makes.  OTOH when I was new and going up the corporate ladder so to speak I worked in very stressful, intense environments with certain people who mistreated me for sure -but it was worth my goal. That's my hesitation with your opportunity here. It's such a tough balance. I no longer need to "climb" etc so it makes that decision easier,

I wish you all the best and -congrats on all the offers!

[LootieTootie]

My honest opinion. When you are working in HR, and with a company that has frequent turnover, there is no way you can view yourself as an "agent of change." You are going to be an agent of onboarding and firing.  I used to do a lot of Admin work, and HR was the one job I hated the most. People don't realize how cumbersome onboarding and firing/exiting processes are at some companies. 

Saying that, I have done a lot of crummy work, dealt with a lot of toxic workplaces, bad bosses, perverted bosses, perverted coworkers, catty office ladies, lazy coworkers, petty coworkers, unstable coworkers, etc. It made me stronger and better at dealing with people.

But DarkChoco, if you don't want to risk your mental health, I wouldn't blame you. Life is too short to stick it out with crappy bosses.

[Andrina]

How long is the probation period? Ninety days, or something else? I don't know what the norms are in your country, as in if you did work for them beyond the probation period but decided to apply for another job, is it that you would put on the application not to contact your present company (in case of a bad review if they found out you were applying for other jobs)? Or, is a company you're applying for mandated to get reviews about you from your present company?

Upsetting that there are such big cons alongside the big pros. The red flags are valid. 

Hard to know what will happen. Some possibilities: perhaps your worrying will surpass actual reality, and that the troubles are manageable. Could be that the managers are really ready for some real change since how they've been running things have clearly not been working for them. Sometimes, you gel with a particular manager and sometimes you butt heads. I've experienced both.

Or, everything you expect will come to fruition.

To me, the good thing is the probationary period where there is an easy out with supposedly no negative consequences.

What I'm lacking is the knowledge of your mental state and how resilient you are at the moment, or if you're feeling like you could have a meltdown at any moment. 

When I have a big decision, sometimes I write down the pros and cons for each in columns and sometimes that helps to see everything in writing.

I won't tell you what to do, of course, but I will just say what I'd do, knowing myself. I'd give it a try and during the probationary period, keep on applying for any other appealing positions. I'd also be proactive while being under this company's employ and not just wait for management to pop in to see me or ask for a meeting with me. I'd be regularly asking to meet with them and show them your plans, ask for the resources you need. Ask their advice, so as to build a rapport of respect and teamwork with them. 

You might be pleasantly surprised, or you might see the company is not a good fit for you and you can leave.

As said, even if there are no red flags, accept the fact that beginning a new job will put your stomach in knots. I know it happened to me and there were definitely learning curves that were rough beginnings. But then I gained confidence and learned how to deal better with certain problems and certain individuals. 

Good luck whatever you decide and keep us updated.

[ShySoul]

Last time I looked for work I interviewed with a company that give me similar feelings. The manager interviewing me tried to find fault with everything on the resume, including insulting my education history. He found time to express fustration and annoyance with the people working under him. He mentioned a turnover issue and problems he had inherited. I fended off his questions and even managed to silence his criticisms by my answers. But the second I had left the office I knew I was never taking the job no matter what the offer.

If a company is already showing you disrespect in the interview, that doesn't bode well for how they will treat you going forward. The interview is supposed to be about putting your best foot forward. Remember, its not just them interviewing you, it's you interviewing them to see if this is the right fit for you. Already you are being asked inapproriate questions and being pressured into accepting their wishes. If people don't want to stay around for more then a year, that is probably an indication that they don't enjoy working there. Either that or there is little room for advancement, which is another problem. From the sound of things, the issues in the company are systemic and there might be little you actually could do to change it.

We spend as much time with coworkers as we do with family. We should enjoy going into work. If you are already dreading the experience before you start, that might be a sign it's not the right place for you. If you can afford to hold out for something else, I'd recommend that. 

 

 

[DarkCh0c0]

9 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

And you shouldn't have to.  You are not obligated to stay even if you do decide to start on Monday.  There's a probationary period for both the employer and yourself so if you find after one week, two weeks it's not for you, then you're free to leave.

You literally have nothing to lose, it's not like you're locked into a one-year contract or commitment.  I mean you could even leave after the first day if you wanted.

Like you said, no need to put on your CV so your departure would have no negative repercussions. 

Something to also consider, IF you decide to decline their original offer, there is also the possibility you may second guess THAT decision.

If me, I'd start on Monday and see what it's all about.  Pay attention and get a "feel" for the place.   

Again you literally have nothing to lose @DarkCh0c0.

Keep us posted!

Thank you @rainbowsandroses 

I think so too. 

I have a small HR client with whom I'm working, and I don't even want to tell them I'm starting a full-time job unless I need to. 

@Batya33 @Andrina

To answer your questions, in my last role I ended up in the ER with an injury. Things became really dark at a point, and I needed my therapist to help me out. So now I'm wary and sensitive to all of this. I'm even still crying because of what happened in my previous job (been told some seriously rubbish things, over stepped, side stepped, and my new good manager at the end started taking over the work that I loved so much because she decided she wanted to be more involved in HR. That was my breaking point and I quit. It was almost humiliating and put me backwards in my career).

Hell, I can't even celebrate this job. All I feel is fear. Fear of the worst.

2 hours ago, ShySoul said:

If people don't want to stay around for more then a year, that is probably an indication that they don't enjoy working there. Either that or there is little room for advancement, which is another problem

I got the hint of the later. No advancement, low pay, and so competitors snatch their talent with promotions and raises. 

Even my position is low paid compared to other executive positions out there.

[DarkCh0c0]

7 hours ago, catfeeder said:

They've demonstrated their ethics by pressuring you to answer the offer on the spot.

Go easy on yourself about that, but understand, it would be the first of many such pressures. How many times will you want to kick yourself for operating under such pressure, only to regret it? Even if it's only a day or two, why subject yourself to even one more encounter with these people?

You were not impressed with either person to whom you'd report. Of course, they told you that you'd be welcome to make changes. That's easy for them to say while they know full well that they, themselves, are the very barriers you'd face to change anything.

I can only tell you where I'd stand, and it would be a quick call tomorrow to avoid ruining my stomach lining over the weekend

Yep. 100%

I'll have a think today and let you know what I choose. I might just test the waters day 1-2 and suss out what the problems are from the person leaving.

[DarkCh0c0]

2 hours ago, ShySoul said:

We spend as much time with coworkers as we do with family. We should enjoy going into work. If you are already dreading the experience before you start, that might be a sign it's not the right place for you. If you can afford to hold out for something else, I'd recommend that

I forgot what the joy of work is thanks to my old job 😓

You've got very very valid points. Thanks so much for your uplifting message.

Edit: I also managed to answer the CEO the way you did. But it's like, just because I can handle his type, didn't mean I have to every day.

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

. It made me stronger and better at dealing with people.

Great point.  Me, too.  And for the OP given her recent past with the ER maybe I wouldn't try this out on this job -but the probationary period might be a great way to compromise.  OP I also say this because this is not just a job to you -it's part of your career and  your goals of career advancement -if it was just a job or  you didn't really need to make a higher salary/grow I likely would say why bother.