Should I be upset?

[SooSad33]

6 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

My fiance and I have been having issues for a few months now and cannot get along. We get upset about something and cannot communicate and something little turns huge. We split up for a few months and got back together and we live together.....now it's turned back into the same thing.

Because what's caused your BU the first time, was never resolved..

7 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

After the hour and a half passed I tried to call he calls back about 20 minutes later and I missed the call so he text and says sorry babe I plugged my phone up to charge and decided to take a bath and relax for a bit and did not realize it had been over an hour. I was livid because he already knows I have insecurities and I feel like if he cared he would not put me in a situation like that.

Okay.. but YOU have to try & work with him in this.... He went to do a few things... that's all. 😕 

7 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

who takes a hour and a half bath? With no phone playing music or not realize it had been almost two hours???? I've never seen him take a bath really and if he did he would be playing music and it would not be but 30 minutes at the most. It only takes him 10-15 min to shower.

You have no idea how things played out at his end... Maybe he just 'took his time' doing all of this, since he was trying to wind down from his day...

 

5 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

We would talk good then he would disappear on me if any little communication would go wrong and block me for weeks, when I would beg for his attention.  He was also talking to other girls on social media. Eventually things did not work out with the girl he met and we talked about trying things again

So, he was rebounding?  BUT, to go back to you because things didnt work w' another woman?  wow 😕 

This is all..damaging.

5 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

He explained that he was in a bit of a mess when we started talking about getting back together and was not 100% sure at that time if it was both what we wanted.

This sounds like a little unsure.

I say.. UNLESS you two can work this all out.. the fussing stops & you are all okay again, this won't feel right.

Yeah, I'm sure things are changed a bit now, for sure.. because when a couple breaks up, there all all the issue's causing the BU, and then, you have the hurts due to the BU, etc. So, you really have to try even harder to work through all of that and so often, they do end up split, again.

He is your fiance..fact.  he is with you now.

So, I suggest you try to give this some time... to try & get your emotions in check.. but IF your trust is just too far gone, it may not be salvagable, as it can cause continous issue's.

[sunshine1422]

12 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

Except that he was doing the same in ALL his previous relationships as well. His behavior isn't a product of OP's behavior. The whole dating the other woman while the OP and him were broken up is a total red herring here. HIs behavior is toxic all on its own and lead to them breaking up in the first place.

Yes dancingfool, it's like I know this already but why can I not let go? Maybe because now I feel like I've caused damage also? Ive never been this petty or jealous or insecure with anyone. He was like this before we broke up and I was not and now he isn't and I am???? The situation with the other girl HURT like hell. Which I guess that was his intentions. Then to post about his feelings on social media and message her after he reached out and wanted to talk about things with me. I may never be able to forgive him. I even reached out to her(something Ive never done) and asked if he has tried to contact her any and she said not at all and she added that she knew where his heart was the entire time and that we looked very happy. She was cheating on him and he knew, and she was  still not divorced and decided to work things out with her husband. As I type all this I set here and think wow are you really reading what you are typing SMH....we have issues with bills as I contribute way more it seems on the right things anyway, we fuss about how I do not make my kids mind right and let them get away with things, we fuss about how we get up in the mornings wrong, we fuss about if someone likes a post on each others social media or not, now when I do pour my heart out to him and break down he just says it seems petty and extreme. He had nothing to offer when he moved back in but himself. I love him enough I accepted that and just wanted effort, assurance, support, and love.  He gets to feeling like none of what he does is good enough and when he does something I think should be normal life responsibility he thinks I should be super proud. We both have started therapy  but it's only twice a month and seems like forever before it may actually help.

[Atlguy]

8 minutes ago, sunshine1422 said:

Yes dancingfool, it's like I know this already but why can I not let go? Maybe because now I feel like I've caused damage also? Ive never been this petty or jealous or insecure with anyone. He was like this before we broke up and I was not and now he isn't and I am???? The situation with the other girl HURT like hell. Which I guess that was his intentions. Then to post about his feelings on social media and message her after he reached out and wanted to talk about things with me. I may never be able to forgive him. I even reached out to her(something Ive never done) and asked if he has tried to contact her any and she said not at all and she added that she knew where his heart was the entire time and that we looked very happy. She was cheating on him and he knew, and she was  still not divorced and decided to work things out with her husband. As I type all this I set here and think wow are you really reading what you are typing SMH....we have issues with bills as I contribute way more it seems on the right things anyway, we fuss about how I do not make my kids mind right and let them get away with things, we fuss about how we get up in the mornings wrong, we fuss about if someone likes a post on each others social media or not, now when I do pour my heart out to him and break down he just says it seems petty and extreme. He had nothing to offer when he moved back in but himself. I love him enough I accepted that and just wanted effort, assurance, support, and love.  He gets to feeling like none of what he does is good enough and when he does something I think should be normal life responsibility he thinks I should be super proud. We both have started therapy  but it's only twice a month and seems like forever before it may actually help.

Twice a month isn't enough on therapy.  If you can afford it, you need once a week.  Also, look into SYMBIS as I suggested.

[sunshine1422]

3 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

Twice a month isn't enough on therapy.  If you can afford it, you need once a week.  Also, look into SYMBIS as I suggested.

Thank you

[Atlguy]

I don't think I read this, but have you been cheated on in the past? Did one of your parents cheat? I don't know, could be some trauma there whether you remember it or not.  Worth exploring.

[DancingFool]

There is that old saying that if you sleep with the dogs, you'll wake up with fleas. When you get involved with someone who is toxic, you aren't going to bring him up to your level, he will bring you down to his, which is what is happening here.

Do you like feeling crazy? I hope not. Do you like arguing with the partner about basic adult things he should be doing without arguing? You are parenting a toxic manchild who is then blaming you for asking him to adult or simply runs away or threatens to run away.

What are you doing? Please don't say "love" because that's not what love looks like. What is actually going on with you that you are avoiding facing or dealing with? You don't depend on him, you don't need him, yet....

I hope that as you keep writing things out and reading it back to yourself, that maybe the spell will get broken for you and you'll actually break free of him.

[Atlguy]

2 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

There is that old saying that if you sleep with the dogs, you'll wake up with fleas. When you get involved with someone who is toxic, you aren't going to bring him up to your level, he will bring you down to his, which is what is happening here.

Do you like feeling crazy? I hope not. Do you like arguing with the partner about basic adult things he should be doing without arguing? You are parenting a toxic manchild who is then blaming you for asking him to adult or simply runs away or threatens to run away.

What are you doing? Please don't say "love" because that's not what love looks like. What is actually going on with you that you are avoiding facing or dealing with? You don't depend on him, you don't need him, yet....

I hope that as you keep writing things out and reading it back to yourself, that maybe the spell will get broken for you and you'll actually break free of him.

So you think she should leave him? I don't know.  I'm not convinced he's an actual cheater.  To quote the show Friends, "We were on a break!"  

[boltnrun]

Has he moved in and out? This has to be so confusing for your kids. 

They hear you "fussing" at one another. They do, even if you insist they do not. This isn't good for them.

I don't believe counseling will help. I think you two have a fundamental incompatibility. And that's why there's so much "fussing".

[sunshine1422]

13 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

I don't think I read this, but have you been cheated on in the past? Did one of your parents cheat? I don't know, could be some trauma there whether you remember it or not.  Worth exploring.

I was with my ex husband 18 years and he had anger issues that stemmed from his traumatic child hood and sexual identification issues that made his anger worse. He is still in denial and I was when I was with him.  I threw away 18 years besides our kids with a man I was 100 % loyal to. At the time I knew nothing about any cheating with married women until we separated and I heard that he had been cheating the last part of our marriage. My Mom and Dad divorced when I was 1 so.

[DancingFool]

Just now, Atlguy said:

So you think she should leave him? I don't know.  I'm not convinced he's an actual cheater.  To quote the show Friends, "We were on a break!"  

I didn't say that he is. Please read up to other information that the OP shared about their relationship and specifically what lead up to them breaking up in the first place. This guy would threaten to leave and start packing his bags at every single disagreement and until she finally let him go on and leave. His behavior is toxic and manipulative and threatening to end the relationship is emotionally abusive. This is not small stuff.

[DancingFool]

2 minutes ago, sunshine1422 said:

I was with my ex husband 18 years and he had anger issues that stemmed from his traumatic child hood and sexual identification issues that made his anger worse. He is still in denial and I was when I was with him.  I threw away 18 years besides our kids with a man I was 100 % loyal to. At the time I knew nothing about any cheating until we separated and I heard that he had been cheating the last part of our marriage. My Mom and Dad divorced when I was 1 so.

Your loyalty blinds you to abuse. Your ex was disordered and this guy is too. Somewhere, you've normalized emotional abuse and I really hope that's something you can address in therapy. Not in the "how do I hang on to this toxic relationship way" but rather how to recognize toxic, let go, and move on quickly....without wasting years of your life on that.

[sunshine1422]

6 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

Your loyalty blinds you to abuse. Your ex was disordered and this guy is too. Somewhere, you've normalized emotional abuse and I really hope that's something you can address in therapy. Not in the "how do I hang on to this toxic relationship way" but rather how to recognize toxic, let go, and move on quickly....without wasting years of your life on that.

Yes you are so right!!!

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, Atlguy said:

I'm not convinced he's an actual cheater.  To quote the show Friends, "We were on a break!" 

It's really the other girl that got the betrayal end of the deal. He was talking to sunshine1422, and telling her that he loved her (sunshine1422), while he was dating someone else. If I was that other girl, I would definitely feel a sense of betrayal. And if I was sunshine1422's shoes, the fact that he has the ability to do that to somebody would have to be a deal breaker for me. It's just a matter of self-preservation. If he's willing to do that to the other girl, he's probably willing to do that to me. It's just a matter of cost for him. 

But I also think a major red flag is the way he throws up his hands and stomps off in apparent frustration and grief. It's very manipulative, especially to someone who has caretaker tendencies.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

We keep pushing it back

I mean - to me anyway an official engagement means a ring and a wedding date -at least a wedding "month" - isn't the point of being engaged to be married because you intend to be married other than making preparations for the marriage license/ceremony? That's the big issue here - you don't trust him and you're telling yourself you're "engaged" but you have no true intentions to marry -if you did, you'd be married or have a wedding date in the near future.  I think that's part of the foundational issue.

[Tinydance]

Well I think the whole thing just sounds really messy to be honest. It's a bit hard to say whether your fiance was definitely in the wrong when you broke up because you were actually broken up. You said you didn't contact him at all for at least a month so it's possible he thought you didn't actually want to work it out and get back together. You can't really say that he actually cheated when he was seeing that girl when you were broken up and not together.

Your relationship seems to be an on and off type and I think that probably explains why you feel like you don't trust him and feel anxious. I think that if you really don't trust him then maybe you should just break up with him for good. I think the way you're acting is unhealthy. You really over reacted when he didn't reply to you for 1.5 hours. Do you expect him to text you literally every second of the day? He's allowed to take a bath, hang out with his colleagues, have friends, have his own life too. If you don't trust him then don't be with him. But being controlling and losing it is not a good look.

[Atlguy]

5 hours ago, DancingFool said:

I didn't say that he is. Please read up to other information that the OP shared about their relationship and specifically what lead up to them breaking up in the first place. This guy would threaten to leave and start packing his bags at every single disagreement and until she finally let him go on and leave. His behavior is toxic and manipulative and threatening to end the relationship is emotionally abusive. This is not small stuff.

Got it.  I must have missed that. In that case, I agree with you.  I was off base.  

[sunshine1422]

We did have a date planned for March 27th. We also had just moved in to a new place. We were starting to fuss pretty bad again and had a lot going on so we put it off until September. We was actually getting excited about it and planning stuff and when we started not getting along so well again I thought it was for the best as I am scared to remarry. I was divorced almost 6 years ago and told myself I wouldn't do it again. My fiance has been married twice. I know that we were split up when he was dating the other girl and I know he set out to do it to hurt me and try to push me away. We would slowly start back talking and he would tell me they were not talking and then if we had a disagreement or I asked to see him for the weekend he would start making excuses and then hurt me and then we would fuss and then I'd be blocked for weeks again until he eventually would reach back out. I think that was when I started getting depressed and would hurt so much and cry for days because I missed him. The other girl was separated from her husband so he never really had a relationship with her like we did but they did start having feelings for one another and when things were good with them of course I didn't hear from him. But about once or twice a month he would tell me how we were best friends and that he missed that and couldn't quit thinking about me no matter how hard he tried. When things were not good between them he was reaching out to me and other girls. When we deciding to get back together and he explained it as he was almost mad with himself for breaking down and telling me how he still felt. Maybe because I hurt him and pushed him away so he never thought he could get over the hurt?? But I told him he had to realize how bad he hurt me by slipping and letting our relationship fail because of him not acted like a man instead of a child and leaving over so stupid little fights we were having. When we broke up I knew I had made the right decision. A month or so after I tried to start dating and did but the 1 or 2 guys I talked to could not hold a flame to how he could make me feel when we were on good terms together. I've got to let the stuff that happened when we were not together go....the text and messages the week he was due to move back in are still in my head and that I think is where the trust issues still stem from.  We have an awesome connection, when we are good its the best feeling I've ever had with anyone and everyone use to tell us we looked so happy and were so jealous of the bond we had. This time around I can feel that we are not best friends like we were. In ways this time he has improved and I know he can do what is needed, act right, give me the things I need but when we fuss and start being petty and his immature ways set in and he gets hurt over the argument or sometimes realizes he may be wrong then he can be manipulative . When he was a child he suffered a lot of trauma and I think he had to go from home to home and never got the emotional support and love he needed. His Mom went through men, he had abusive step fathers,he tried to protect his brother from abuse and now has no relationship with his parents. So here I come thinking if he loves me then I can give him emotional support, love, protection, loyalty etc 🙄 He has had a rough upbringing and I know that has caused a lot of his issues. He has went to two appointments and they have put him on medicine and it seems to be working. He does go through manic phases where I think he gets bored with life, or either never feels fulfilled and he wants someone to be proud of him. When whoever isn't it's like he spirals from that point. Sorry again for the long reply! I know I'm dealing with a man child, he has got some growing up to do still, I've got let go of the past and trust him if I believe this is where he wants to be. He swears he will continue therapy and wants this to work. He knows he has things to work on as well as I do. I do feel like he is trying and I'm still stuck with I hope I'm not wasting my time. I'm going to give it a bit and see how therapy goes for us both and look into couples counseling and if he is wiling to do these things and admit his problems and if I can let go and trust him then we may can work through these issues. If not then we both have to realize that there has been too much damage and we are just not good for each other.

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, sunshine1422 said:

I've got to let the stuff that happened when we were not together go....the text and messages the week he was due to move back in are still in my head and that I think is where the trust issues still stem from.

Honestly, I think you should pay attention to it--and all of the other behavior he exhibits.

1 hour ago, sunshine1422 said:

When things were not good between them he was reaching out to me and other girls.

Don't you realize he is capable of doing the same thing to you? This is where your trust issues should stem from. This, and him falling down dead at the slightest sign of a challenge. Things are "not good" between the two of you a lot.

1 hour ago, sunshine1422 said:

the 1 or 2 guys I talked to could not hold a flame to how he could make me feel when we were on good terms together.

I think that you're addicted to the highs and lows of the drama cycle, like a lot of other people are. When things are bad, they're really bad. But when things are good, they're GOOOOOOOD. The big lows make the highs feel even higher. But the highs really aren't very high at all because you're in an unstable, emotionally exhausting relationship that is ultimately unsatisfying. 

It's sad about his upbringing, but do you deserve to be punished for it? If you let him treat you bad, do you think it will undo the wrongs that were done to him? That he will get better? No, he has to pick himself up off the floor and make that decision himself. 

[Rose Mosse]

He's too damaged and broken to be continuing a relationship, in my opinion. No amount of your offering "emotional protection, love, support, loyalty" will fix his issues. That's where you're misguided and relying on an unrealistic pipe dream to carry you both through. If he's manipulative, there should be absolutely no room for any of that. Don't settle for so little and for the crappy temperament of individuals who just have not worked through their own issues first. 

I think counselling is another reason to delay ending this nightmare altogether. Both of you don't have anything but the property tying you together at this point?

Why should you keep digging your nails deeper into this mess? You are not his therapist or mother-in-adulthood. I think that you have adopted him as another child and are applying a parental role to this relationship making up for his childhood issues, disregarding your needs or expectations overall. There are way too many excuses at this point to excuse what you're doing continuing to have him in your life. 

 

[indea08]

Alright, so I’m just going to be straight with you, you’re likely not going to like what I have to say, and that’s okay, but I hope you’ll try to consider these points.

First and foremost, you cannot keep telling yourself he is a man-child. How disrespected do you think he’d feel if he knew that’s how you see him? If that’s your perception of him, that will come across to him. Whether it’s in your tone of voice, your facial expressions, or your statements, he will feel your condescending attitude and it will further aggravate the situation. Why would I work to change myself to meet standards of someone who thinks I’m a child, and makes me feel like one? I wouldn’t.

Second, I do think you are way, WAY over the top with your need for him to check in with you. You aren’t his keeper, he needs to be able to just live. You are supposed to add value to his life, not monitor his activity.  When you gripe at him for taking some time to himself and not responding to you within one hour, of course he’s going to feel like he’s never good enough. You’re not leaving him any room to just be himself. He’s not you, he doesn’t have the same thoughts as you, he isn’t wired the same way you are, and that’s part of his beauty. That’s part of him being a unique individual, part of who he is. Either you learn to love the person that he is without your intrusion, or you let him find someone who can. It’s like that analogy, when you see a beautiful flower, admire it without picking it, for once you pick it, it ceases to be what you admired. 

Finally, him having seen other girls. Okay, I get why y’all want to drag him through the mud for telling OP he loves her while seeing other girls. But again, the guy is human. He was hurt by the breakup and trying to move on. Confused by his feelings, I’m sure, and just trying to figure out what to do. I can’t condemn him for not being a perfect gentleman during that time. I’ve handled a few of my breakups far worse, but I ultimately found new partners who were supportive about it and helped me find my way forward, allowing me to feel confident in closing one chapter and starting a new one. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SCREW UP. You should expect that, because no one is perfect. If you want a happy relationship, be the soft spot where he can fall short every now and then without being made to feel bad about it. I promise you, there will be days where you will fall short and will be so grateful he was understanding about it. This is a balance of course, and you have to establish where the line is that can’t be crossed. But if taking an hour after a long day to relax on your own is crossing your line, you really need to look at where you’ve drawn the line. There are so many serious and heart breaking things happening in the world, so to get yourself so worked up over something so small is so self-damaging, not to mention lethal to your relationship.

[smackie9]

17 hours ago, DancingFool said:

Except that he was doing the same in ALL his previous relationships as well. His behavior isn't a product of OP's behavior. The whole dating the other woman while the OP and him were broken up is a total red herring here. HIs behavior is toxic all on its own and lead to them breaking up in the first place.

It's not a product, but it's a trigger. This is learned behavior yes. When the tough get going the weak run off.

[boltnrun]

Bottom line, you are fearful and anxious and distrustful and he is manipulative and has shown he lacks commitment. What's worse is your kids are witnessing all this "fussing".

If you need counseling to resolve issues before the wedding (not just coaching to learn better communication or compromise skills, for example) it doesn't bode well for this relationship. 

[Andrina]

In the U.S., the divorce rate for third marriages is estimated to be between 73 and 74 percent, significantly higher than the 41 to 50 percent rate of divorce for first marriages, and higher than the 60 to 67 percent divorce rate for second marriages.

He's shown the behavior of juggling many women at once, inappropriately speaking to one romantic interest when involved with another. Perhaps the reason his first two marriages ended?

Subconsciously, we choose a partner we think we're worthy of. I know first hand what that's like. When I thought I'd built up my self esteem and practiced self-care, in hindsight after a toxic year- long relationship ended, I realized my self esteem was quite poor to have dealt so long with a relationship wrong for me in just about every major way.

I'd say that if you make yourself single and work on your self worth, you'll have a lot more success in relationships.

[dias]

9 minutes ago, Andrina said:

In the U.S., the divorce rate for third marriages is estimated to be between 73 and 74 percent, significantly higher than the 41 to 50 percent rate of divorce for first marriages, and higher than the 60 to 67 percent divorce rate for second marriages.

Kind of makes sense, you know the drill at that point lol

[Jibralta]

29 minutes ago, Andrina said:

He's shown the behavior of juggling many women at once, inappropriately speaking to one romantic interest when involved with another. Perhaps the reason his first two marriages ended?

That's what I'm thinking. This is how he behaves. I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole.

45 minutes ago, indea08 said:

First and foremost, you cannot keep telling yourself he is a man-child. How disrespected do you think he’d feel if he knew that’s how you see him?

I think there's even more to this than the fact that he might feel disrespected. Chances are, someone like him, who behaves the way that he does, doesn't have much self respect to begin with, and subconsciously seeks a "mother" figure in his relationships. 

I think the interesting part of this dynamic (as far as sunshine1422 is concerned), is: why are you choosing a man that you don't truly respect?

I think you (sunshine1422) should examine your view of men in general. Would you settle for a man-child if you believed that men could actually be emotionally intelligent, emotionally mature adults? I think not. 

I think you have to up your expectations of men. Hold them to a standard. Let the slag fall away.