Helping someone who cannot be helped?

[LaHermes]

You make me smile WS. L.

 

It's probably why many of us love to chill out by watching an edgy horror/supernatural movie. Saving the damsels from those dratted vampires to whom they are soooo attracted.

 

But you are not Van Helsing, are you. (just kidding).

[Rose Mosse]

Let her go. She does need to live her life and make her own mistakes. Is it the covid situation that's got you in a bind like this with the two younger women? I understand it's difficult meeting people at the moment. Do you have peers or associates somewhat more on your level?

[reinventmyself]

6 months ago I started talking to a girl online who was having relationship issues with her now ex-boyfriend.

Ill assume she was in a a relationship when you first started talking? You go from there mentioning you were in a 'quasi relationship. This is a little word salad that basically means you were chatting with someone much younger when you were both otherwise in relationships. Great start!

 

From there you develop feelings and go into white knight mode, going as far as giving her ulimatums, arm chair therapy, coercion and getting agitated that she isn't behaving they way you say she should. Yet, you have never met her!

 

If she does indeed have all these issues that cause her to play on the freeway, make poor choices, attract toxic men, it likely stems from some really deep rooted issues that need to be addressed in therapy. Or at the young age of 20 these are mistakes she needs to make on her own and learn her own lessons.

 

Talking to some electronic man with alot money and too much time on his hands, who is in sense trying to micromanage her life for her just adds to her long list of poor decision making. It's no surprise she attracted someone like you.

If she was my daughter, I'd be livid by your interference.

Please leave this young lady alone.

[weirdsituati]

You make me smile WS. L.

 

It's probably why many of us love to chill out by watching an edgy horror/supernatural movie. Saving the damsels from those dratted vampires to whom they are soooo attracted.

 

But you are not Van Helsing, are you. (just kidding).

 

Lol maybe if I start watching some edgy horrors it will take the edge off to do this again. Hhaha

 

Let her go. She does need to live her life and make her own mistakes. Is it the covid situation that's got you in a bind like this with the two younger women? I understand it's difficult meeting people at the moment. Do you have peers or associates somewhat more on your level?

 

Exactly agreed. It's not just covid - I'm generally pretty anti-social. I don't need to be, there are some groups who share the same interests as me. I'll need to start forcing myself to be more social

 

6 months ago I started talking to a girl online who was having relationship issues with her now ex-boyfriend.

Ill assume she was in a a relationship when you first started talking? You go from there mentioning you were in a 'quasi relationship. This is a little word salad that basically means you were chatting with someone much younger when you were both otherwise in relationships. Great start!

Yes. Her boyfriend was cheating on her and I started talking to her about that. I say quasi relationship because it's functionally a relationship although no labels are there. But yes we were effectively both in relationships when we started talking.

I genuinely did not see her as romantic - that developed over some time - but I always knew that I wouldn't be able to trust someone like her, so I never even considered the idea seriously

 

From there you develop feelings and go into white knight mode, going as far as giving her ulimatums, arm chair therapy, coercion and getting agitated that she isn't behaving they way you say she should. Yet, you have never met her!

Exactly correct

 

If she does indeed have all these issues that cause her to play on the freeway, make poor choices, attract toxic men, it likely stems from some really deep rooted issues that need to be addressed in therapy. Or at the young age of 20 these are mistakes she needs to make on her own and learn her own lessons.

I understand that exactly. That's why I offered 3-day a week therapy to her, albeit highly inappropriate. Then I realized that learning for herself is best. That's when I stopped talking to her.

Talking to some electronic man with alot money and too much time on his hands, who is in sense trying to micromanage her life for her just adds to her long list of poor decision making. It's no surprise she attracted someone like you.

Her trusting me to always be there for her turned out to be a poor decision indeed. But I wasn't really trying to micromanage her life. I never questioned her about anything she did. I simply told her my boundaries. She was then free to call and interact with me as she pleased. She's the one who volunteered to tell me the truth about what's going on, which I appreciate

 

If she was my daughter, I'd be livid by your interference.

Please leave this young lady alone.

We both know if she was your daughter there wouldn't be much fixing required since you're clearly a competent leader and individual

[bluecastle]

We both know if she was your daughter there wouldn't be much fixing required since you're clearly a competent leader and individual

 

I offer these blunt words with your best interest at heart, to nudge you into a place of self-reckoning and away from this tetchy place of her-reckoning.

 

This sentence of yours highlighted above? Do you see the arrogance in it? Yes, it's couched as a compliment to a poster here, but it's not really that. It's a presumption on your part, about this young woman, about the woman you're responding to, about yourself: what you know and others do not, where you are mature and others are not. Most alarming, at least to my eyes, it still finds a way to validate the very idea—that a human requires "fixing"—that you'd do very well to dispel, unless you are addressing the human that is you.

 

Analogy time:

 

I'm not a very good basketball player, but I'm 41, six feet tall, very strong, so I'd imagine I could "school" some younger kids on the court. That would be one way, for me, to feel like a good basketball player. But zoom out and what am I doing? I'm just using some kids half my size, kids still learning to play basketball, to give myself an inflated sense of my skillset, my worth. Not cool. Not good for those kids, not good for me. Not a mortal crime in the grand scheme of humanity, but probably not a way worth being, for everyone involved, very long. Everyone's game suffers.

[weirdsituati]

I offer these blunt words with your best interest at heart, to nudge you into a place of self-reckoning and away from this tetchy place of her-reckoning.

Thank you. But I genuinely don't see how I'm coming from a place of her-reckoning. I explicitly state multiple times that everything bad that occurred in this situation is due to my own deficiencies, and she had literally no wrong-doing in the entire situation. The only criticism I make of her is that she's prone to abusive relationships, which is hardly even a criticism as it's a result of circumstances which she had no control over

 

This sentence of yours highlighted above? Do you see the arrogance in it? Yes, it's couched as a compliment to a poster here, but it's not really that. It's a presumption on your part, about this young woman, about the woman you're responding to, about yourself: what you know and others do not, where you are mature and others are not. Most alarming, at least to my eyes, it still finds a way to validate the very idea—that a human requires "fixing"—that you'd do very well to dispel, unless you are addressing the human that is you.

 

I do see the arrogance in it. I'm looking at the poster's short thread, and using it to infer from that that I believe them to be a competent leader and individual

 

I used the word fixing because it's what's aesthetic in the sentence. I don't actually believe she needs fixing; the conclusion of my post is that I realized that she needs to experience life more

 

Analogy time:

 

I'm not a very good basketball player, but I'm 41, six feet tall, very strong, so I'd imagine I could "school" some younger kids on the court. That would be one way, for me, to feel like a good basketball player. But zoom out and what am I doing? I'm just using some kids half my size, kids still learning to play basketball, to give myself an inflated sense of my skillset, my worth. Not cool. Not good for those kids, not good for me. Not a mortal crime in the grand scheme of humanity, but probably not a way worth being, for everyone involved, very long. Everyone's game suffers.

 

This is actually amazing. Yes this 100% played a part in what happened and this is very insightful from you. Much of what motivated it was "flexing" my abilities and getting validation from her

[LaHermes]

Well, OP. You are honest anyway.

 

"Much of what motivated it was "flexing" my abilities and getting validation from her"

 

That's a good attitude., OP.

 

In any case may I add that this was a 23 year old who got online of her own volition and not an unsupervised teen of 15.

[weirdsituati]

Well, OP. You are honest anyway.

 

"Much of what motivated it was "flexing" my abilities and getting validation from her"

 

Lol thank you. I don't really see the point in lying to myself and people offering help to me on here. Thanks

[reinventmyself]

There is a saying that unhealthy individuals are attracted to broken little birds because they aren't likely to fly away.

[weirdsituati]

There is a saying that unhealthy individuals are attracted to broken little birds because they aren't likely to fly away.

 

You probably won't believe me but I would prefer her to end contact with me, then I wouldn't have the guilt of taking away her best friend. But I also am a self acknowledged unhealthy individual

[DancingFool]

You probably won't believe me but I would prefer her to end contact with me, then I wouldn't have the guilt of taking away her best friend. But I also am a self acknowledged unhealthy individual

 

So what are you going to do about it?

[bluecastle]

You probably won't believe me but I would prefer her to end contact with me, then I wouldn't have the guilt of taking away her best friend. But I also am a self acknowledged unhealthy individual

 

I realize you're not addressing me here, but I'd most certainly believe this. Very telling: you don't want any guilt, only the flip side of guilt—that sense of being important to her, formative, a healthy influence, so the sense that if/when she ended contact could provide the melancholy sensation of her wings being mended, by you.

 

Which of course is just fancy talk for being passive aggressive and faux-humble—you making a choice, if not quite conscious, to continue to indulge your self-acknowledged unhealthy impulses.

 

Something I like to think about? How we humans can mistake awareness for action, evolution. I can say "I have a drinking problem" and then use that awareness to validate my consumption of half a bottle of bourbon. Hey, at least I'm being honest! That's not nothing! And so forth. But action, evolution would be to say "I have a drinking problem" and then begin to take steps to change it, and in the process grow into a truer version of myself. Squint (or drink enough) and those two modes can seem like one in the same, save for how one results in being very drunk and the other in a new way of being.

[reinventmyself]

You probably won't believe me but I would prefer her to end contact with me, then I wouldn't have the guilt of taking away her best friend. But I also am a self acknowledged unhealthy individual

 

How about you be the adult, wish her the best and change your number? She'll continue doing what she's doing until she learns by her mistakes or reaches out for legitimate help in your absense. Sometimes it really needs to hurt before the lesson is learned.

Her relying on your electronic guidance can't continue. Especially after admitting that your motives are mixed.

[weirdsituati]

So what are you going to do about it?

 

I'm going to seriously work on my self worth issues. It's become clear that's what's the main issue here, thanks to the help from the people on here. I will take that money and invest it in fixing my own issues and whatever is driving this behavior of mine

 

I realize you're not addressing me here, but I'd most certainly believe this. Very telling: you don't want any guilt, only the flip side of guilt—that sense of being important to her, formative, a healthy influence, so the sense that if/when she ended contact could provide the melancholy sensation of her wings being mended, by you.

Yes that's very accurate. It wouldn't be pleasant if she was the one to end contact, but yes I need to admit it would be better without the guilt. I do want her to see me as a positive influence. I think she will, even despite this

 

Which of course is just fancy talk for being passive aggressive and faux-humble—you making a choice, if not quite conscious, to continue to indulge your self-acknowledged unhealthy impulses.

Again true, my desire to help her was not selfless. I enjoyed the delusion of helping someone develop, and thinking I know what's best for them. I now recognize it as a delusion - and now will deal with what made that delusion so enjoyable

 

Something I like to think about? How we humans can mistake awareness for action, evolution. I can say "I have a drinking problem" and then use that awareness to validate my consumption of half a bottle of bourbon. Hey, at least I'm being honest! That's not nothing! And so forth. But action, evolution would be to say "I have a drinking problem" and then begin to take steps to change it, and in the process grow into a truer version of myself. Squint (or drink enough) and those two modes can seem like one in the same, save for how one results in being very drunk and the other in a new way of being.

 

I understand exactly what you're saying. I absolutely plan to take action with a proper therapist. I don't want to go through another one of these ventures, or re-engage in continued unhealthy friendship with her later. Right now I'm acknowledging what was happening in my head, which people like you are helping me to do, and I thank you sincerely

[weirdsituati]

How about you be the adult, wish her the best and change your number?

Yes I did end contact with her. I was just saying I'd prefer if she ended contact with me.

 

She'll continue doing what she's doing until she learns by her mistakes or reach out for legitimate help in your absense. Sometimes it really needs to hurt before the lesson is learned.

Her relying on your electronic guidance can't continue.

This is exactly what I realized. I think you're 100% correct

 

Especially after admitting that your motives are mixed.

 

If you mean my motives in helping her weren't completely selfless, as I was satisfying my own insecurities, you're correct. If you're saying I wanted her for a proper relationship, I genuinely need to disagree. There's no way I'd be comfortable with her as a girlfriend or something like that. I should have just ended contact when I felt feelings for her, knowing that there's no way it could work. That's completely on me being cowardly

[weirdsituati]

I'm going to bed now. Thanks so much for all your insight everyone. The quality of insight and perspectives offered here by you people is the absolute best out there. Just reading and replying to your posts is extremely therapeutic, and forces me to have better clarity of the situation

 

I'm so happy I found this forum 10 years ago when I went through my first breakup

[smackie9]

Since you have never met this person and it's been all online, how can you truly know what is going on with this person?...you are only accepting what she tells you....reality check: people lie.

I suspect a lot of what she tells you is bull and she does it to capture vulnerable men like yourself who unknowingly seek attention for themselves. Look up white knight syndrome. You are having codependency issues due to your lack of self worth. Helping this damsel in distress makes you feel of worth and value as you gallantly lay yourself down for her, spending your time with what you think is a worthy cause. You did what you could to protect yourself, but you have to admit you got pulled in hook, line and sinker.

[Capricorn3]

You probably won't believe me but I would prefer her to end contact with me, then I wouldn't have the guilt of taking away her best friend.

OP, don't flatter yourself. Trust me, she'll manage just fine without you. She doesn't need you. Do the right thing and end contact with her and change your number. Will you be man enough to do so?

 

But I also am a self acknowledged unhealthy individual

I think most everyone here will agree with that. It is not her that needs therapy, but YOU. Everything about what you're doing and saying is extremely disconcerting and concerning (imo). I would even go as far as calling it creepy. Please, leave her alone and get help to sort out your own issues.

[Rose Mosse]

I'm going to seriously work on my self worth issues. It's become clear that's what's the main issue here, thanks to the help from the people on here. I will take that money and invest it in fixing my own issues and whatever is driving this behavior of mine

 

Maybe it's self worth... maybe it's something else like purpose, having something to live for or work towards or believe in. I think most people need this. There's always a choice and those little choices lead to bigger choices and all of it makes up that lovely kaleidoscope that's you.

 

There's some truth to what you said about helping others to help ourselves. You can still do that volunteering or engaging with others on a less personal and completely non-romantic level. The moment emotions or personal attachments come into play I think there tends to be some blurred lines and a lot of confusion. There are other ways to channel that desire to give back to a community or others in the community. Once you find purpose in that, maybe you'll find that these 'quasi' romantic liaisons aren't necessary or simply aren't what you ever wanted in the first place. There is a certain togetherness in all the loneliness, I believe.

 

The good part? You're alive and cognizant and appear to show signs of wanting to connect with others.

 

The not so good part? The method maybe needs a little tweaking.

 

Always a silver lining... and those choices though. They're a good thing.

[Jibralta]

What's your take on this situation? Am I extremely weird to put myself in this situation? Was I very unfair to make such a rule that she must stay out of relationships / hookup culture if she wants my help? I'm realizing now that it's a ridiculous stipulation to put on someone - I was looking for some assurance that my time wouldn't be wasted, even though it's pretty obvious that it would be. I blame myself for this situation 100%, not her

 

Although you are kind to be concerned, I think part of what she's going through is the natural process of being a 20-something. Relationships are often the focus of their life. This girl is drawn to crap guys, but she may grow out of that. She's still figuring out what she wants, which is why she is so flakey.

 

Her behavior seems desperate to you, because you're all grown up. I can actually relate, because I went to graduate school at 30, and interacted with people who were 22 - 29. There was a noticeable maturity drop in the people who were younger than 24, especially the Americans. They had totally different thought processes and priorities than the older students. And they also looked up to the older students for validation.

 

If you weren't attracted to this girl, I think you would probably find her difficult to tolerate. All she does is bring her drama into your life. So you need to question your own motives, here. What are you looking for?

[catfeeder]

The person who needs the therapy is you though.

 

Wanting to fix others is avoiding fixing yourself and addressing your own issues.

 

Yep. People are not projects. If you want a distraction, go find a hobby.

 

An adult is fully capable of hiring a therapist if they want one. Asking someone to become who they don't really want to be in exchange for your time is really asking them to become who YOU want them to be.

 

So point your focus toward yourself, instead. If you want to help someone, help YOU first.