Newlyweds & another harsh argument - Have I been unreasonable?

[Hollyj]

The one thing that I find the most unbelievable, is that you were pulling YOUR money, and this guy would not compromise one bit!

 

OP, you should not have married this guy. He has shown you plenty, within a very short period!

[Hollyj]

You should have walked, after the invitation issue.

[flyingkites]

"As you do with someone you love, you try to work with their quirks and through the bad stuff. "

 

What efforts is HE making to work with YOUR quirks and through the bad stuff?

 

Sounds like he is still trying to get you to give up and give in via his texts.

 

I often have technical difficulties too, but they tend to be self-imposed We argued on Tuesday, and I moved back to my house on Wednesday after work, with me telling him I was "moving back" and not "staying" at my house - thus indicating a fairly permanent arrangement. On Friday, he asked via text if I was planning to make it a permanent thing - I guess perhaps he was confused, because all we've had were a handful of texts since Tuesday. He did not call or reach out in a meaningful way - he was angry too, at my offer of a compromise. I confirmed on Friday that my move to my house was a permanent one, and I'd be moving my things on Saturday. He was gone all day Saturday for the bachelor party, and I moved most of my things yesterday. Today he showed up at my door, and I assume he wanted to speak, but I asked him to leave.

 

What efforts has he made? Aside from showing up at my house today, none. During our argument on Tuesday, I told him I didn't want to argue and I explained the logic of the compromise, from my perspective. He got angry, uninvited me from the wedding, and decided to sleep downstairs in his recliner. Before I went to bed, I pulled him off from the recliner, and hugged him, told him I loved him and I don't want to argue, and told him to sleep in our bed. On Wednesday morning, I sent him a text at work, asking if things were still going to be weird when we got home later that night. He said "Yes, I'm still bothered." That's when I kinda hit the roof and decided to move back into my own place.

[Hollyj]

I guess we see where his priorities are: his friends.

 

His lack of actions show all.

[flyingkites]

I guess we see where his priorities are: his friends.

 

His lack of actions show all.

 

Hollyj - I like your style of "introspective-and-concise." I do think now I should have walked after the wedding invitation scenario. Alas, I am here now, and trying to make the best decisions. His friends are his priority. I see this now. It's apparent with our honeymoon vs East Coast wedding compromise, and it's apparent this weekend. He knew I was planning to move my things out yesterday, and that there was no other day to do it, because of M - F work and Sunday real estate showings at my house. He knew he would be gone all day yesterday for the bachelor party. The bottom line is that he knew i was moving out yesterday. If he wanted to fight against that, thwart that, fix that, table that, talk about that, whatever - he could have. But he let it roll until I actually moved out. He does not want to be married.

[flyingkites]

And for the sake of being equitable and fair in seeing both sides of an argument, I want to air some dirty laundry.

 

On the two occasions that my husband expressed doubts about our marriage: 1) right before the wedding when we argued about buying a home together and he told me not to send out invitations, and 2) a month or so into our marriage he became angry when I brought the home stuff up again and said he wasn't sure he wanted to be married...

 

On both occasions, I was stricken and heartbroken. I stayed at my own house out of anger/grief for a few days during both occasions, because I just wasn't sure what was going on with us, and whether my husband actually wanted marriage. Couples fight, and I think most stuff in general can be worked through. But after hearing my husband tell me he's not sure he wants to be married, I did angrily retreat to my own house for a few days. This has been a sticking point for him - he says I flee and leave during fights, and this has caused him grief. I understand that. I've explained to him that I've only left when he's vocalized his uncertainty about our marriage. On one hand, who wants to stick around for that? Being newly married and hearing your husband say he's not sure about being married when you try to talk about buying a new home? On the other hand, maybe I should have tried harder to work through it and stay present, at the time.

 

That's pretty much the extent of my dirty laundry, but it feels nice to air it out, for the sake of ensuring fair advice and opinions

[Hollyj]

The only way you could have "tried harder" (in his view), is if you had given in, as you always had. You should lovely, and I am glad that you are putting your doormat ways behind you. If my husband were telling me he questioned the marriage, put his friends first and refused to compromise, i would be done. What the hell else could you do, stay in his house and continue to receive his crappy treatment!

[Hollyj]

What do your friends say?

[boltnrun]

How does he propose you react when he gives you his "my way or the highway" treatment?

 

It's like either you give in or you leave. There doesn't seem to be much history of a third option where the two of you discuss and arrive at a compromise.

[ThatwasThen]

I suspect then that he's not showing too much concern for you leaving his house and going to yours because you've done it before and you've come back once you've learned to once again accept his way.

 

If you're serious about not returning to his home and your marriage (no one would blame you if you don't) then maybe you should tell him that you've actually left him? If you do this, do it after you've spoken to your lawyer. You don't want him getting vindictive on you without you knowing it because you don't know your rights.

 

Sorry you're having to go through all of this with him.

[catfeeder]

Dear FK,

You are NOT a fool for not having acted upon advice from a bunch of amateur strangers on the Internet. Really. Let's keep in perspective who 'we' are along with our collective qualifications for advising you on something as important as your marriage. None of us are living your life for you, so none of us get a vote.

 

You are entitled to review feedback and reject any of it as you see fit. You don't 'owe' anyone conformity with a suggestion. You're an intelligent, level headed and gracious woman who loves her husband, and that's nothing to feel foolish about.

 

When he was driving away, he sent me a text saying he wants to try to go to counseling.

 

You are understandably angry at the moment, and you're smart for exiting the scene to allow things to 'air out' as you aptly put it. Given that you love this man, you may opt for counseling with him, at very least, to solidify for yourself that you've tried every appropriate measure to learn whether a future with him is desirable.

 

In that case, you may want to consider allowing husband to choose the counselor and to set the appointments. This would ensure that he's sincere rather than throwing out the idea merely to appease you. I'd also pursue the sessions from the comfort of your home rather than the pressure cooker environment of the reno home.

 

You may learn over time whether husband is willing to attempt a partnership rather than a dictatorship, whether he'll learn to fight fairly, and whether the two of you have a shot.

 

Head high, and write more if it helps.

[flyingkites]

What do your friends say?

 

Thanks for your thoughts Hollyj. Sage words, and they resonate. By and large, my friends tell me that I have over-compromised. They said it early on, when I left my suburban house vacant, to move in with him, because he wouldn't move into my house.

 

I'm not interested in being a doormat. I'm interested in knowing that I've been fair, and have tried to do the best thing for my marriage. I've talked with friends and recently posted again here, to get a sounding board. If I need to adjust my actions or mindset, I want that third-party perspective. I want to know if I've been unreasonable or stubborn. I invite harsh comments - I want to know what people think, because this is my marriage! And I am at a loss, but not as much as a loss as I was yesterday.

 

 

 

How does he propose you react when he gives you his "my way or the highway" treatment?

 

It's like either you give in or you leave. There doesn't seem to be much history of a third option where the two of you discuss and arrive at a compromise.

 

Boltnrun, I honestly don't know what he expected I would do when he told me not to send out the wedding invites, and later, that he's not sure he wants to be married. I feel OK with having retreated to my own home during these arguments, because that conversation is a bit nuclear in a relationship. More than anything, I wanted to run my "dirty laundry" in this respect by folks on this board, to help them better understand the dynamics, and ensure fair opinions are flying around.

 

Yes - it is his way or the highway. Via text on Friday, I used your example of "who wants 40 years of no compromise?" You said it perfectly, and it rings bells with me. A life of 40+ years with NEVER getting what you want sounds miserable.

[flyingkites]

I suspect then that he's not showing too much concern for you leaving his house and going to yours because you've done it before and you've come back once you've learned to once again accept his way.

 

If you're serious about not returning to his home and your marriage (no one would blame you if you don't) then maybe you should tell him that you've actually left him? If you do this, do it after you've spoken to your lawyer. You don't want him getting vindictive on you without you knowing it because you don't know your rights.

 

Sorry you're having to go through all of this with him.

 

Such a fair point, ThatwasThen. In fairness, I have left his house before. When it happened, it involved me packing a couple bags of clothes, toiletries, and my dogs and their stuff, because I wasn't sure what the end goal was. This move was more serious, and I told him it was going to be a complete move-out. Aside from the items I mentioned above, I removed plates & kitchen stuff, knick-knacks, wall hangings, appliances, etc yesterday. I feel this is the best course of action.

 

It's hard to describe with writing, but this move-out is certainly more permanent and serious than anything we've encountered during a fight.

 

The legal stuff is a whole other ball game, and maybe merits a separate post.

[flyingkites]

Dear FK,

You are NOT a fool for not having acted upon advice from a bunch of amateur strangers on the Internet. Really. Let's keep in perspective who 'we' are along with our collective qualifications for advising you on something as important as your marriage. None of us are living your life for you, so none of us get a vote.

 

You are entitled to review feedback and reject any of it as you see fit. You don't 'owe' anyone conformity with a suggestion. You're an intelligent, level headed and gracious woman who loves her husband, and that's nothing to feel foolish about.

 

You are understandably angry at the moment, and you're smart for exiting the scene to allow things to 'air out' as you aptly put it. Given that you love this man, you may opt for counseling with him, at very least, to solidify for yourself that you've tried every appropriate measure to learn whether a future with him is desirable.

 

In that case, you may want to consider allowing husband to choose the counselor and to set the appointments. This would ensure that he's sincere rather than throwing out the idea merely to appease you. I'd also pursue the sessions from the comfort of your home rather than the pressure cooker environment of the reno home.

 

You may learn over time whether husband is willing to attempt a partnership rather than a dictatorship, whether he'll learn to fight fairly, and whether the two of you have a shot.

 

Head high, and write more if it helps.

 

Thank you Catfeeder! Meow! You also replied on my previous post two months ago, and I appreciated your wisdom. In a way, it's a little strange to throw an issue into the ether and hope others will comment. I was really happy with the advice I got from ENA a couple of months ago. I tend to be a little scientific - I want to learn the answers of a random sampling of people, and have them know the facts, before I decide on the best course of action. ENA might not be a random sample, but it is random enough, and I appreciate the kind and harsh comments alike.

 

I posted because I really wanted to understand if I have been in any way unreasonable. I can change my actions, if the jury of my peers deem it wise. And your comment is wise - review feedback and go from there. Maybe counseling is a good idea. I brought this idea up to my husband last month and he was initially reluctant and said "the writing's on the wall." I kind of hammered it though, and got him to agree. We haven't gone yet, and after he came by my house today and I wouldn't speak to him, he sent me a text saying "I want to go to counseling."

[ThatwasThen]

If he really wants to go to counselling then ask him to search out some names of good one's and make an appointment.

 

Don't renew the trip to Ireland before you've had several sessions under your belt and you feel he's making an effort to change and show you that he values you.

 

I wish you good luck in whatever transpires.

[Hollyj]

If he really wants to go to counselling then ask him to search out some names of good one's and make an appointment.

 

Don't renew the trip to Ireland before you've had several sessions under your belt and you feel he's making an effort to change and show you that he values you.

 

I wish you good luck in whatever transpires.

If you do, DO NOT ACCESS YOUR 401K. Do not spend money you do not have.

[Hollyj]

No offense, but she seemed to have walked into that marriage blindly if that is how her husband treats her. His behavior didn't just happen overnight.

 

She is not a fool for asking for advice, but a fool for nit taking it once it's given.

 

I agree. Hoping she makes the right decision.

[Snny]

If you do, DO NOT ACCESS YOUR 401K. Do not spend money you do not have.

Right. Go on a trip you both can afford- otherwise, delay it within a year. Go on a honeymoon without ANY contact with friends and family- they are "dead" to you until you return home.

[LaHermes]

Flying.

 

Of course there is nothing unusual about a couple having the odd quarrel. What you are describing is entirely different, where he is showing no reasonable attempt at communication and simply wants his way or the highway. So, no you did the right thing. No matter how hard you try with someone like your husband it will never be enough. He obviously has a problem.

And you are so right:

 

"He does not want to be married.

 

That is all you need to keep in mind, and once you have extricated yourself from this unfortunate entanglement then could I suggest you treat yourself to that holiday, and yes! Do come to Ireland......

And by the way when you get all this

[Hollyj]

OP, did you think his behavior would change once you married? Was it okay for you when you were dating?

[tattoobunnie]

Never ever ever ever take money out of your 401K unless it's for a down payment on a house, so you can write off the taxes, or you're old, and get take it out and avoid the penalties. Whatever you do, get a refund for Ireland, and put that money back. Your husband needs to GROW UP. The fact that you had to be in the position to take money out of your 401K kind of tells me you foot the bill on a lot more than you should, like always.

 

If you don't break the plans to Ireland, all you are doing is enabling crappy selfish behavior from him for the rest of your marriage. PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN! Do not let him walk all over you.

[1a1a]

*Jedi Huuugs* This all sounds hard and I am super proud of you for moving out!!!!

 

If you don't want to burn this relationship to the ground yet counselling is an option, but definitely decide what your hard limits are and draw your boundaries. If he want so keep you he has to learn to compromise. That he shot down the family gathering in one location in Ireland is the height of selfish!!!

[LaHermes]

IMO the issue of the family gathering is the least of the OP's problems. This man is volatile, resentful and in truth they should not have married.

 

Hope you are attending to the legal aspect F.

[abitbroken]

I really urge you to get another realtor. His buddy's fiance is too close for comfort and in his circle of influence. I also encourage you to take your house off the market. The hit of paying property taxes is better than the hit of homelessness.

 

And for the sake of being equitable and fair in seeing both sides of an argument, I want to air some dirty laundry.

 

On the two occasions that my husband expressed doubts about our marriage: 1) right before the wedding when we argued about buying a home together and he told me not to send out invitations, and 2) a month or so into our marriage he became angry when I brought the home stuff up again and said he wasn't sure he wanted to be married...

 

On both occasions, I was stricken and heartbroken. I stayed at my own house out of anger/grief for a few days during both occasions, because I just wasn't sure what was going on with us, and whether my husband actually wanted marriage. Couples fight, and I think most stuff in general can be worked through. But after hearing my husband tell me he's not sure he wants to be married, I did angrily retreat to my own house for a few days. This has been a sticking point for him - he says I flee and leave during fights, and this has caused him grief. I understand that. I've explained to him that I've only left when he's vocalized his uncertainty about our marriage. On one hand, who wants to stick around for that? Being newly married and hearing your husband say he's not sure about being married when you try to talk about buying a new home? On the other hand, maybe I should have tried harder to work through it and stay present, at the time.

 

That's pretty much the extent of my dirty laundry, but it feels nice to air it out, for the sake of ensuring fair advice and opinions

 

 

Oh no,no,no...Do not let yourself believe that you are "bolting at the first sign of a problem" because this is not what you are doing.

 

When someone says

I don't want to marry you.

 

That is not like "I want black curtains and he wants red. ARRGGHH!! I am leaving"

 

Someone telling you they do not want to marry you or they regret marrying you is HUGE and is worth leaving for. The marriage vows have already been broken in a way.

 

Look at your other arguments - he throws a freaking tantrum and that's okay. He tells you he's still bothered by things - you can forgive him for minor transgressions --- you go to let him know that you love him and then he holds a grudge and can not do the same because he won't and can't. Nothing is a do over with him,

 

Also, you are giving up money in your 401k, you are selling your house. He is sacrificing nothing. At this point, if you give up your house AND had given up your 401k money, and he left you in a few years - guess what - he still gets to live in his precious house or mom's house or whoevers and you have just given up all your security and thrown good money after bad.

 

Yes, lots of things can be worked through but you start out with a workable person - do you remember "love is patient, love is kind..?" People work through bad medical news, deaths of loved ones, lost jobs, etc, minor misunderstandings about who forgot to pick the kids up. You were ready to go all in by spending your 401k on a trip that would be a miserable memory and selling your house and hoping he would be all in in return.

 

Maybe the fact that you had a crush on him so long made you blind. Maybe he was right for you in his 20s, but he is not the 25 year old guy anymore. Actually - he is, because he never grew up = he's completely self centered.

 

I have probably said this before in your other thread - but my ex threatened to break the engagement two weeks before the wedding, and seemed to be happy after the wedding but maybe 6 months to a year later told me that he only walked down the aisle because my grandparents came to the wedding and he didn't want to embarrass them. You know what, its better to stand someone up then marry them and throw a dagger in their heart like that. We didn't last many years. It always went back to the same thing of trying to get rid of me here and there. There were periods of time that were "good times" but then it went back to that and sometimes he said he didn't mean it, but that's just the way he talked - but it was scarring to the heart. There was no gun pointed at him - he didn't HAVE to marry me and in fact HE was the one who proposed. And then the abuse really started. It is one thing to be a kind husband and then to confess "you know what, i went into this marriage for the wrong reasons" and to amicably divorce. versus the constant barrage of "i regret marrying you" .

 

I really think he might want you to divorce him and that's why he does this. But then if you do, you will be the bad one and the awful woman. Can you honestly endure another year of this and why would you want to have kids with this guy?

[boltnrun]

I married my husband when I didn't really want to get married.

 

Guess what? The marriage didn't last.

 

Fortunately we were able to have an amicable divorce and co-parented well, but there was still damage. And it was MY fault for not putting my foot down and saying firmly that I wasn't ready to get married.

 

I should not have married him when I didn't really want to. These situations do not end up happily ever after...or even somewhat happy ever after.