Broke up with commitment-phobe (again)... Did I do the right thing?

[boltnrun]

"Disconnected" and "unsettled" are no good for someone with anxiety.

 

Also, the fact that you two keep breaking up and getting back together affects your anxiety.

 

What is it that you get from him that you're so absolutely sure you can't get from someone else, someone who isn't a "commitment phobe"?

[lostlove76]

To answer your question (sorry, hard to quote on my phone)...

 

The connection and comfort level is what I feel I won't get with anyone else. I'm picky and closed off and it takes me a long time to get close to someone. Also, my attraction to him is huge; I just can't see myself being attracted to anyone else. (However, it's long distance right now, so I don't even get to see him.) Another thing I feel I won't find with someone else is how he accepts me and loves me for who I am, faults and all. He doesn't judge me for my anxiety and a few other things that have held me back in life.

 

I guess I could theoretically find these things in someone else one day, but I'm not open to it at all right now. I know no one will compare, and the thought of getting to know someone new and letting them in is just exhausting.

 

He hasn't called yet, nor have I. I'm not going to. He probably won't either. Which just puts us right back to where we were before we made up night before last. I feel at least somewhat responsible if things fade out, because I should be putting in some effort too instead of making him do it all. But I just can't bring myself to call right now This is all so difficult.

[Realitynut]

. Realitynut, a poster on here, has a wonderful signature. I wish I could recall the exact wording, but it was to the effect that if he truly loves you he will not leave you to wonder and wander.

P.S We say if a man identifies you as a priority, you will know it. He will not let you wonder or wander. (The exact signature that I was referring to.)

 

lol.....since I was mentioned....I might as well chime in! BUT...it's going on 2 a.m. and I hiked almost 5 hours today. Then came home and looked up the meetup site that my ex bf went on this weekend...and saw him with his new gf. For the first time.

 

He had stopped by my office just on Wed. We had sex. Long story. Hot and cold for 2 years...until he went on one of his cold spells and met a backpacker chick from out of town.

 

Now he can see someone only on the weekends....and can have his alone time.

 

I could go on and on...but i'm tired. Tired of his hot/cold. Tired of me always waiting for his 'good' side. He always came running back, after he thought he was losing me to someone else. Once he yelled at me to get out of his house, or he'd throw me out. OK. I had started seeing someone....didn't like him...just to hang out with....A month later the bf came calling. And calling. And texting. And finally said...I realize I love you. (first time) that lasted for 10 days and he started to pull away. He had said....I will make a commitment to you for ONE YEAR! lol Who does that? (I keep a journal)

 

The next time was last fall...I was starting to hang with another guy in our group. Just like kayaking with him...and sitting by him while we went out to eat. Nothing big. Went over 2 weeks (and 2 days) we never went longer than the second weekend without breaking down....and he came over one night. I hope I'm not too late. I've realized I want you for the rest of my life.

 

That lasted ONE month of perfection. The second month both our issues. Him cold....I have sensitivity issues. We were even a fb couple for almost 2 months, until I came home from work...and he'd taken me off.

 

Finally...we were off again. He had been on the dating sites. He went to another meetup group out of town...and met his 'kindred' spirit.

 

But....like I said....he came by my work (I work alone) and said he had been looking at my fb pics. I asked if he was still pursuing this girl. He said, "not as much". So I thought that mean, he might be coming back again! *scoff*

4 hours later....and after some heavy duty sex...even slow danced a bit before. ugh....he said he was still interested in her...and that I put words in his mouth.

 

so I said...don't ever see me...or talk to me, ever again. He kissed me goodbye and left.

 

2 days later he was camping in a tent with her. A mutual friend was there, and told me they shared a tent. He told my ex....you know C is going to grill me on this. And ex said....She needs to move on.

 

 

Soooooo....you can do this hot/cold Sh*t til the cows come home....and he'll keep running back...until he actually MEETS someone he likes...and low and behold she might like him back.....and YOU'RE out!

 

He too just back in January was telling me...you're the first thing I think about at night, and the first thing I think of when I wake up. 6 weeks ago he told me...I try to get you out of my mind...but I just can't. Hellll...he's told me that line a million times in the past 2 years.

 

The first 10 months was fine...I wouldn't kiss or have sex with him. Just flirt. Best friends. He isn't the most attractive guy...and my guy before that was drop dead gorgeous (in my eyes) . But this guy and I 'got each other'.

 

But the minute we had sex...at my office. (funny...first time and last time! HA!) He jumped up and said "dont call me or text tomorrow." WHAT? I sat there and cried as he left and said...are you ok? I said NOOOO.

 

That was April 11 2 years ago.

Now is April 4....2 years of what I called his Jekyll and Hyde personality.

 

Never saw anything like it in my life. Not a drinker. AT ALL!

 

But left home at 16...didn't like his dad telling him what to do.

Left school at 16....didn't like school telling him what to do.

 

Held different jobs all his life...mostly working for himself.....didn't like being told what to do. Now he has a job he sorta loves. Works in a room by himself! lol

Told me many times...'don't tell me what to do'....

 

Been married 3 times.

 

And I'm heartbroken.

 

So. Who's the sick and broken one here?

 

The one out having fun with the new girl?

Or the one who still pines after the one who treated her as 'the option'.....

 

My signature I took from something another poster on here had said....ITIC....IThinkICan

 

It rang a bell for me.

 

Hard. Because I'm 61. He was 58. This new chicky is 50. Sucks.

[boltnrun]

But you're not "comfortable".

 

How can you say you have a "comfort level" with him when you're sitting there stressing out over whether or not he'll call, or whether or not you should call, not to mention the numerous breakups?

 

I don't see "comfort" here, unless you're talking about the comfort of the known, rather than the unknown.

 

Which is sad...you could be in a relationship with someone who doesn't add to your anxiety, but you won't because you cling to this one.

[lostlove76]

I see two new posts, that I'm about to read!! It's late here (early morning) so if my replies are short, or if I wait til tomorrow (er, later today) to reply, that is why. But I'm about to read them after typing this! Thanks in advance, til I can reply!

 

Just wanted to update that he called about 2 seconds after my last post. It was a very sweet and loving convo, as always, with lots of I-love-you's and I-miss-you's. Every single phone call, we always tell each other how much we love each other and how much our connection means. He knows I have doubts sometimes, so he always makes it a point to explain how much I mean to him. I know without a doubt that he means it. I just talk myself into thinking he doesn't care when we aren't talking. I just want you guys to know that while the relationship has its issues, the love itself is not in question. Neither one of us let too many people very close to us, so it means a lot that we've let each other this close. Now if we could just overcome the issues I've talked about!! He was going on about coming to get me, and I asked if he's nervous about it and he admitted that yes he is, but said that he'll hate himself if he doesn't do it, and that we at least need to try. I told him it's okay to be nervous, because I'm nervous too. I don't know how we will overcome the nerves other than just going for it?? He works six days a week, so I don't know when it will happen. He said this week, and I'm sitting here scared it's too soon and thinking that the following week would be better. So I can see why he keeps delaying it, because I feel the fear over it as well. It's a big thing, moving in together.

 

When he called I said I was thinking about calling him, and he asked again why I never call him. So I'm wondering if I will just reach out during the lapses if that will help things. Like we were saying earlier (me and reinventmyself), I at least need to try. See what I mean about perspective? How recently we've talked determines how much I feel like he cares, how suspicious I am, how negative I feel, etc. I can predict that I'll feel mostly good tomorrow, and start worrying the day after that about whether he's going to call or not (or whether I should call). I really think it boils down to those attachment styles I mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

Okay, it's late. About to read you guys' posts. Thanks for hanging in there with me tonight boltnrun!! I appreciate it. And I look forward to reading yours, realitynut. On my phone, so please excuse any typos

 

ETA: Aghh, that was long. Sorry! I need to work on shortening my posts.

[lostlove76]

Realitynut:

Gosh, your story sounds like a heartbreaking nightmare I'm soooo sorry that you've had to deal with all that. It's funny (not haha funny) that we can read each other's stories and know that someone deserves better, but we can't see it in our own relationships. I will say, you deserve better. But I'm sure you've been told that a thousand times, and I'm sure you know it deep down. But you love the guy and it's hard to break the cycle. You hang on because of the hope for more good times. I get it. Your guy sounds like a total jerk and a total mess. I want to compare mine to yours and say mine isn't that bad (just to defend mine), but I'm sure that on the outside looking in, mine probably sounds as bad. So I won't do that. I would say let the new chick have him, and you can find someone better. But I'm sure you've been told that before too. When you're attached and you love the guy, it's hard to let go. So I will just say *big hugs* to you, and I know how you feel!

[lostlove76]

Boltnrun:

I totally get your point. But just to clairfy, what I mean by comfortable is that I can totally be myself with him, tell him anything, say anything I want to say. Be totally unguarded and not hold back. I can just be my flawed, messy, insecure, imperfect self and he still makes me feel loved and valued. So by comfort, I mean when we are together or talking. I feel relaxed and open with him.

 

The discomfort you speak of is true, too. The anxiety I feel during the in-between times. The fear of calling him. I just get confused about whether it's him or me that is causing it. I've always had abandonment and trust issues. But he's certainly done things that give my anxiety more ammunition, that is for sure.

 

This is all probably above your pay grade so I'll shut up now

[reinventmyself]

Boltnrun:

I totally get your point. But just to clairfy, what I mean by comfortable is that I can totally be myself with him, tell him anything, say anything I want to say. Be totally unguarded and not hold back. I can just be my flawed, messy, insecure, imperfect self and he still makes me feel loved and valued. So by comfort, I mean when we are together or talking. I feel relaxed and open with him.

 

You realize how contradictory this sounds, don't you?

After all you are afraid to - pick up the phone! - and call this man.

You can't be that comfortable. If you were `totally yourself' then you could.

 

You also used the term connected. Yet you haven't seen each other and go days without communication.

Oh my. . connected?!

 

What I think - is you are afraid to call because your are afraid of what you might find out.

That he's possibly not there and not available.

You'd rather not know the possible truth because you might have to do something about it. (to be fair, he could be sitting there waiting for you the entire time) BUT something along the way happened that caused you to feel this way.

 

From what you've shared, he's pulled back, gone MIA, logged onto dating websites, cheated on ex's and drinks too much. Can we safely say alcoholic or not?

I thought you wanted to change things up a bit and see if you got a different result and you aren't even 5 min's into this and you are doing the exact same thing!

 

Have you ever been in a healthy consistent relationship? Because I have. Most of them haven't been so healthy and much like you I used to think I had anxiety issues. Dang that dam* anxiety that got in the way of my relationships and caused me to be insecure and do and say things I otherwise wouldn't have done had I not had anxiety.

 

But guess what? I had (have) an relationship experience with a man who has integrity, is consistent and I don't question his whereabouts'. He is a man of his word and I don't doubt his feelings for me, because based on his actions along with the his words, it's very clear.

 

Then guess what? . That dam* anxiety disappeared!

[boltnrun]

Exactly, Reinventmyself!

 

My anxiety magically went away when that relationship ended.

 

Now, I almost never have anxiety, and when I do it's for a legitimate reason and it's usually easily resolved.

 

I don't sit there looking at my phone wondering, should I call? Text? Will he call me? If I call him, will he be with someone else? Will he get mad if I call? Will he get mad if I don't? What if I don't call and he doesn't call, what does that MEAN? He called, he said he loves me, I feel better today, but what about tomorrow? What if I don't hear from him for a few days what does THAT mean?

 

Those spirals are so damaging and we don't always even realize it. Then we carry that over into our everyday lives until we can't eat, we can't sleep, we can't focus on anything. All we're thinking about is HIM!

 

I remember one time in particular, my kids had saved up some money to take me out to dinner. They were so excited and proud of themselves, but I couldn't eat my meal because I was on the outs with him and that's all I could think about! I allowed HIM to ruin a wonderful night with my kids!

 

Now that makes me angry. I will never, ever be in a relationship that makes me feel like that, ever again. I don't care how much I think I love someone, that will NEVER happen again.

 

BTW, I had a man who I thought I'd love forever and never, ever get over. Well, guess what? I did get over him. I had the opportunity to reconcile with him recently and I said no thanks. I don't love him anymore.

 

So, yes, you can love again. Even when you're absolutely, positively sure you won't and you can't, you will and you can.

[annie24]

I agree with bolt and the others: anxiety is a sure sign you're in the wrong relationship. When you are loved and in a stable relationship, it feels very nice and calm.

[reinventmyself]

Exactly, Reinventmyself!

 

My anxiety magically went away when that relationship ended.

 

Now, I almost never have anxiety, and when I do it's for a legitimate reason and it's usually easily resolved.

 

I don't sit there looking at my phone wondering, should I call? Text? Will he call me? If I call him, will he be with someone else? Will he get mad if I call? Will he get mad if I don't? What if I don't call and he doesn't call, what does that MEAN? He called, he said he loves me, I feel better today, but what about tomorrow? What if I don't hear from him for a few days what does THAT mean?

 

Those spirals are so damaging and we don't always even realize it. Then we carry that over into our everyday lives until we can't eat, we can't sleep, we can't focus on anything. All we're thinking about is HIM!

 

I remember one time in particular, my kids had saved up some money to take me out to dinner. They were so excited and proud of themselves, but I couldn't eat my meal because I was on the outs with him and that's all I could think about! I allowed HIM to ruin a wonderful night with my kids!

 

Now that makes me angry. I will never, ever be in a relationship that makes me feel like that, ever again. I don't care how much I think I love someone, that will NEVER happen again.

 

BTW, I had a man who I thought I'd love forever and never, ever get over. Well, guess what? I did get over him. I had the opportunity to reconcile with him recently and I said no thanks. I don't love him anymore.

 

So, yes, you can love again. Even when you're absolutely, positively sure you won't and you can't, you will and you can.

 

Oh gosh bolt. .I could have written this!

All the wasted time and years it took off of my life. I have enough life experiences now. .in and out and these type of situations, I am fortunate to know the difference. It's far from perfect but so much better and always a work in practice.

 

I sooo wish someone had told me!! Well, I had to pay a therapist to tell me honestly and it took alot of practice and better choices to get to other side. Because when you are caught up in this toxic relationship style for long enough you fool yourself into thinking it's normal.

 

I don't sit there looking at my phone wondering, should I call? Text? Will he call me? If I call him, will he be with someone else? Will he get mad if I call? Will he get mad if I don't? What if I don't call and he doesn't call, what does that MEAN? He called, he said he loves me, I feel better today, but what about tomorrow? What if I don't hear from him for a few days what does THAT mean?

 

Just reading this gave me anxiety. . Yikes!

Now when I find myself doing this, I know I am on the wrong track and it's time to go!

Now that makes me angry. I will never, ever be in a relationship that makes me feel like that, ever again. I don't care how much I think I love someone, that will NEVER happen again.

Amen!!

[lostlove76]

Hey guys.

 

anxiety is a sure sign you're in the wrong relationship. When you are loved and in a stable relationship, it feels very nice and calm.

But guess what? I had (have) an relationship experience with a man who has integrity, is consistent and I don't question his whereabouts'. He is a man of his word and I don't doubt his feelings for me, because based on his actions along with the his words, it's very clear.

I see what you're all saying with this, and it makes 100% complete sense. I do have to say, though, that I've been with more stable guys in the past and I still felt the same anxiety. I still didn't trust them. I still felt like something was wrong, or could go wrong, during the times in between talking and seeing each other. I still "broke up" with them periodically and found things to get mad about. I still always questioned whether they really liked/loved me, and insisted at times that they didn't.

So how do I differentiate between what are my own anxiety issues vs. what my current guy has caused me to feel???

It is possible that if I were with a different guy, I may not have the worries and anxiety; but given my past history in relationships, I don't know if that would be the case. I also have anxiety in general, about anything and everything. It's a crappy way to live

 

What I think - is you are afraid to call because your are afraid of what you might find out.

That he's possibly not there and not available.

You'd rather not know the possible truth because you might have to do something about it. (to be fair, he could be sitting there waiting for you the entire time) BUT something along the way happened that caused you to feel this way.

Yes. This is exactly why I'm afraid to call! Along with being afraid of seeming clingy. And being afraid of giving him the upper hand and then him never initiating and I always have to. I think I've read way way too many of those online articles about waiting for the guy to call, etc etc. And as women, we've had that advice hammered into us since we started dating. I think I take it too far. Also, I was a bit clingy in my early dating years, and have since gone in the opposite direction because I never want to be like that again.

 

I remember one time in particular, my kids had saved up some money to take me out to dinner. They were so excited and proud of themselves, but I couldn't eat my meal because I was on the outs with him and that's all I could think about! I allowed HIM to ruin a wonderful night with my kids!

Yep I've allowed mine to ruin Christmas and Thanksgiving.

 

BTW, I had a man who I thought I'd love forever and never, ever get over. Well, guess what? I did get over him. I had the opportunity to reconcile with him recently and I said no thanks. I don't love him anymore.

This feels good, doesn't it? Good for you!! I don't give a hoot about any of my past exes either. It's hard to see yourself in that future place when you're loving a current guy.

 

Can we safely say alcoholic or not?

Yes, he most definitely is for sure.

 

SOO, you guys gave me more things to think about, thank you. If anyone has an answer to my above bolded question, I would much appreciate

[reinventmyself]

. . . in an earlier post, did you say you went to therapy but didn't discuss relationships?

Pretty sure that's mostly what I talked about when I went.

You mentioned considering going back. Is this so. And if you don't discuss relationships with your therapist. .find another!!

[lostlove76]

Yes, I did say that. I've always wanted to talk about relationships, and they always wanted to talk about other things. They seemed to think that the relationship issues were non-important. To me, they are of the utmost importance, because when I'm involved with someone it rules my entire life.

 

For instance, the last time I went, which was years ago... I went because my brother and I were having issues that affected the whole family. At the time, I needed help with those family issues that had created wounds. We did spend some time on that, but then it turned into more practical issues. After a few months, he said he wouldn't see me anymore until I had gotten a job (I don't want to go into that whole thing here - anxiety also makes it hard for me to work like a normal person). So I felt abandoned.

 

I don't know why I'm telling you about that. I guess just as an example of how they always focus on something other than what I really want to talk about.

[reinventmyself]

I find that not only really unfortunate but peculiar as well.

Please try finding another therapist!

[lostlove76]

Okay, thanks!

 

ETA:

Thinking back, there was at least one other (and probably more than that) therapist who said I wasn't making enough progress (according to their definition of progress, I suppose) and said it was time to quit the sessions. Which makes me mad to think about. Not everyone moves at the same pace. For me, it was just good to have someone to talk with and get help getting through the day-to-day issues that were popping up at any given period of time.

[annie24]

In case no one has brought this up, "intermittent reinforcement" is the type of thing that drives lab animals crazy. Sometimes the rat pushes a button and gets a treat. Sometimes, it gets nothing. It makes them go crazy. Same in humans, with the hot and cold behavior. Sometimes he's the perfect boyfriend. Sometimes he pretends you don't exist. It's crazy making. You could walk away from a guy who always ignored you, but it's odd when they are one way one minute, and another the next. But there are stable guys out there who just want to be a normal boyfriend to you. So don't look back!!

[lostlove76]

In case no one has brought this up, "intermittent reinforcement" is the type of thing that drives lab animals crazy. Sometimes the rat pushes a button and gets a treat. Sometimes, it gets nothing. It makes them go crazy. Same in humans, with the hot and cold behavior. Sometimes he's the perfect boyfriend. Sometimes he pretends you don't exist. It's crazy making. You could walk away from a guy who always ignored you, but it's odd when they are one way one minute, and another the next. But there are stable guys out there who just want to be a normal boyfriend to you. So don't look back!!

 

Yep!! I mentioned that term somewhere earlier in this thread, I think, because I stumbled upon it in my reading a while back. You're exactly right, it's completely crazy-making, and it's what gets someone so hooked that they can't walk away. I've even read on some of those pick-up artist threads where guys talk about the best way to have game, and they will actually do this on purpose (ugh, complete loser player guys that make me want to gag).

 

I'm wondering if my guy is actually as hot and cold as I'm portraying him to be. Right now we're in a good place, so it's hard to think of the negative. He used to be much more hot and cold a long time ago than he is now. Now, his "cold" periods are simply when he doesn't call for days periodically... but now he's told me that he sometimes waits me out to see if I'll initiate, since I never do. So I don't know!

 

But there are stable guys out there who just want to be a normal boyfriend to you

If and when I do give up on him, this will be my next goal. I will never again allow myself to get so wrapped up in this kind of relationship. I'm definitely learning some hard lessons here. But (call me crazy), I still have hope that he and I can work this out and get to a more stable place.

[boltnrun]

No guy will "cause" you to feel anxiety.

 

But I can tell you, a guy who plays games the way this one does (deliberately NOT calling) is never going to be helpful for your anxiety.

 

I still think you cling to him because he's familiar.

[lostlove76]

But I can tell you, a guy who plays games the way this one does (deliberately NOT calling) is never going to be helpful for your anxiety.

 

So so true. I always wonder if this is what he's doing, every time he quits calling. Though I know that this hasn't been the reason for the lapses in calling every single time it's happened, he's admitted on several occasions that he was indeed holding out for me to call. It drives me nuts.

 

Then again, how much of it is my fault, ya know? Since I NEVER initiate. I've googled to see what guys think about their girlfriends never initiating, and it really seems to bother them. I've seen them saying on message boards that they'll hold out to try to make her call. I asked mine one time if it bothered him that I never call, and he said of course it does. That it makes him feel like I must not care, or that I've forgotten about him.

 

I know it shouldn't be this complicated!! There are so many rules and mind games and fears and frustrations in dating these days that I don't know how anyone makes it.

[Hollyj]

Okay, thanks!

 

ETA:

Thinking back, there was at least one other (and probably more than that) therapist who said I wasn't making enough progress (according to their definition of progress, I suppose) and said it was time to quit the sessions. Which makes me mad to think about. Not everyone moves at the same pace. For me, it was just good to have someone to talk with and get help getting through the day-to-day issues that were popping up at any given period of time.

 

Your therapist had told you, we have told you,yet you continue to excuse away or lay on personal blame. Honestly, I don't understand why you seek advice, as it seems that you want to plod along forward with a relationship that has no future.

[lostlove76]

Your therapist had told you, we have told you,yet you continue to excuse away or lay on personal blame. Honestly, I don't understand why you seek advice, as it seems that you want to plod along forward with a relationship that has no future.

 

I haven't spoken with a therapist about this guy at all.

 

I'll try not to take offense at your message. If you don't want to give advice, you certainly don't have to. But thanks

[boltnrun]

What you are experiencing has nothing to do with "dating" in general. It's specific to your situation.

 

It's not that everyone who is dating is having to play games or is feeling fear. It's what YOU'RE doing. And I assure you that people in healthy relationships aren't feeling what you're feeling.

[chitown9]

Well, now I am learning something new to me and in your thread you mentioned that you and he are planning to move into together. If that is the case, I suggest that you go forward with that plan and do so as soon as possible. Let's just get on with this and see if it crashes and burns. It just may be that you want to see how the end plays out, and if that is the case, I can understand that. Sometimes we just need to see a relationship to the bitter end to be able to accept that it is finally over. chi

[lostlove76]

Am I being overly sensitive, or are some of you getting snarky? (Holly and chitown).

 

There is no "finally over" to accept. He still wants this and I still want this. We both have issues, the relationship has issues, but we love each other and neither of us wants it to be over. I was mad at him and upset when I started this thread, and I'm sure I will be again soon enough. But I'm trying to learn and gain perspective here, because I know I have the tendency to distort things in my mind. I'm not good at relationships. That's why I came asking for help, and I truly appreciate all the constructive input and advice.

 

Moving in together is far from ideal. But being so far apart, that's the only way to be together. We're both scared about it, but we both say we have to at least try. It very well may crash and burn, or it may not.

 

I think at the beginning of this thread, in the midst of my upset, I portrayed it as a case of him being the bad guy. Because that's where my mind was, full of negative thinking and trying to push him out of my heart. I've tried to give the other side as best as possible since then, telling of my own issues that probably contribute as well (or at the very least, they make everything so much worse in my own mind). I just wanted a little outside perspective, is all. Certainly don't mean to annoy anyone!