Seriously, i'm not selfish and materialistic but......

[karvala]

It doesn't sound like you want to date a man with money per se (thank goodness; you've always seemed smart and sensible to me, and I couldn't imagine you going down the gold-digger route), it sounds more like you want to date a man who knows how to behave with an element of class and decorum! I.e. someone who makes you feel special on the date, someone who will take care of things for a while and create a romantic fantasy moment or two without the harsh reality of split bills or cheapest items. That's entirely understandable, and is one of the central reasons I temporarily discard my unease about the lack of equality in these situations and behave in that way myself when I'm out with someone. It's a nice feeling to engage in a bit of old-fashioned chivalry. I think that's rather different from dating someone because he has a lot of money, solely for what you can get.

[SimplySasha]

Annie24, you aren't a bad person for wanting to date a man with money. I think many of us have that little fantasy about being whisked away to a life of luxury, being lavished with gifts and doted on. There's no shame in wanting a piece of that dream.

 

I think that if I guy asks you out on a date, regardless of financial status, they should have a plan first. I also think that the person, being the date initiator should be responsible for the financial aspects of said date. That IS what a date is after all right? One person taking another person out in a somewhat romantic capacity. If they said, you want to hang out Sat night and maybe catch dinner and a movie, that wouldn't be a date, it would be hanging out and I would expect to pay for my share of the event.

[grymoire]

I too feel that it is not wrong to boldly say what you really want. I think people in general feel pressured to say the politically correct things in order to avoid criticism. If a man can say "I want a beautiful woman" the woman can also say "I want a rich man". The real problem is when people desire something in their hearts but verbalize the opposite.

[yellow_sweater]

i think i'm just tired of feeling unappreciated, or treated not so well.

 

Annie, I TOTALLY get what you're saying here. It really has nothing to do with the money... more about feeling special.

 

I know that, when I'm really over the moon for someone, I like to give them little treats. Like taking them out for ice cream, or going on a carousel ride in the park, or paying for dinner because I think they're special and I want to give them a gift because I enjoyed their company. These are also the guys that I'll knit a scarf for, that I'll stay up past my bedtime on the phone if they need to talk to someone, that I'll go out of my way to make their day.

 

It has less to do with the absolute amount of money and more to do with, "Gosh, it would be wonderful to meet someone that thinks I'm so awesome he'd like to a memorable, romantic dinner at a nice restaurant with me and then eat ramen a few nights later in the week." You know?

 

YS

[yellow_sweater]

If a man can say "I want a beautiful woman" the woman can also say "I want a rich man".

 

I understand... but it's not about being absolutely rich or poor. It's more about the relative nature of how far a man will go to show he cares about me (and, likewise, how far I'll go to show I care about him). That is, if a grad student likes me so much he'll take me out to dinner in a real restaurant, that means so much more to me than going out to a real restaurant with a young professional. Likewise, if I knit a scarf for a guy, which is a large time investment, instead of buying him something in a store, it symbolizes that I think he's worth a lot to me. It has nothing to do with how much the meal or the scarf actually cost, rather the thought and the meaning behind it. Does that make sense?

[yellow_sweater]

yeah, seriously..... how i am so smart and can't seem to find a good guy? i can do other smart-like things, like writing papers, doing research, having intelligent conversations with nobel prize winners, etc.... finding a good boyfriend? god, i am useless.

 

34 year old guy i went out with last weekend just texted me 30 seconds ago. text. sigh. he said he would call last night, but i didn't hear from him. this is so dumb.

 

Oh good heavens... I FEEL YOUR PAIN. Another (over-educated?) young woman with her own career stuck in a collegetown.

 

I think I might have said something along the lines of, "THIS IS SO DUMB" while complaining about dating to a friend last night.

 

Seriously, how hard can this be?

 

Ok, I'm done hijacking your thread now. Thanks!

[JadedStar]

This is exactly why I thought it was crazy that everyone came down so hard on you for mentioning your education and salary. Some women DO care an awful lot about this but won;t be honest about it and will call you shallow for mentioning these things. I can see why you get confused grymoire.

[grymoire]

This is exactly why I thought it was crazy that everyone came down so hard on you for mentioning your education and salary. Some women DO care an awful lot about this but won;t be honest about it and will call you shallow for mentioning these things. I can see why you get confused grymoire.

 

Hello JS

 

Thanks for your post...

 

Can I ask you for a help? In my thread "Dating Traditions" I have replied to your post and mentioned about a girl that rejected me politely. I am trying to get feedback but I ended up having to defend myself because unfortunately I used the word games

 

All that I am trying to understand there is why she said the things she said as opposed to "i am seeing some one now... sorry.. but thanks i am flattered"? I am being told it is because she works with me... But I doubt that.

 

Can you plz offer your perspective?

 

Thanks,

G

[SimplySasha]

Women here keep claiming that they care two hoots about a guy's job or earnings and come down very harshly on men that make such assumptions. I was ripped apart for mentioning my job and education...... One woman was critical to the point where she said only women with low standards would date me.. why? Because I mentioned about my job and education...

 

My husband has no college degree but I still love him. He works hard to help provide for us, I don't care about some wall plaque saying "Good job, you attended class and took a test." Women who just make a fuss about someone's "on paper" education level are pretty shallow IMO. I thought the other post was pretty damned harsh saying only a woman with low standards would date you based on that. Why? I would think the deep down personal qualities would be why someone would date another person, but apparently some people think their "standards" are better than others. Worry not though, there ARE plenty of other women who don't include degrees on their list of "standards by which to measure a man".

[Batya33]

And I think that people who dismiss college degrees and higher degrees as "just a piece of paper" are at minimum misguided or misinformed -- and viewing it in a shallow way. I find it almost offensive (as well as inaccurate) to dismiss a diploma as "you attended class and took a test".

 

To me the accomplishment of a higher degree most often says a lot about a person's values, goals, ambitions, character. Obviously there are exceptions but those are rare and I haven't seen any in my vast experience as a student, teacher, friend, colleague, and acquaintance of hundreds, probably thousands of people with higher degrees.

 

I most likely would not have enough in common - including on a values basis - with someone who hadn't at least finished college. It has something to do with intelligence, as well, but that's not the focus as I know many very smart people who chose not to go to college. I can be friends with those people, work with them, think highly of them, admire them --- but I strongly prefer to be in a serious romantic relationship with someone who values higher education and who showed that he values it by at least getting a college degree -- and that also shows me that he would strongly encourage any children we had to go to college if at all possible within their abilities. That's extremely important to me too, as it was to my parents and I thank them constantly for providing that role model for me.

 

I also wouldn't date someone or be close friends with someone who dismissed a college degree in general as just a piece of paper (obviously it would depend on why - but a flip "oh it's just a piece of paper" wouldn't sit right with me at all.)

 

I should add that I would have a very hard time meeting a man who didn't at least finish college, and who I found sufficiently intelligent (and no I am not just talking about "book smarts" - because that's not the only part of a higher education). Most people I know at least finished college, so my standards are very average/normal where I am from. Most people who have the same religion as me (call it shallow, another requirement of mine when I was looking for a life partner) have at least a college education.

 

Only two of my friends of many people I know married men without college degrees - one is sorry she did because he's also not ambitious (his decision not to go to college was part of his lack of ambition) and they are struggling financially. The other one is helping put her husband through college now, in his 30s, because as he said at their wedding, she changed his life and made him see how important it was to have goals and achieve those goals.

 

Of course we can agree to disagree. To be clear, I am not saying that your husband - or anyone without a degree - cannot also be a wonderful person with wonderful values and qualities including intelligence - of course they can. My narrow focus is on whether that person would be a good match for me as a life partner as opposed to friend and to respond to your accusation that women like me have unrealistic standards and are behaving in a shallow way.

 

I don't think the OP is asking for a rich man, just a man who can afford to take her to dinner and who has the class (in a deep sense, not a shallow sense) and the generosity, when he asks her out on a date, to treat her within his means and not to draw attention to what she can and cannot order and his financial woes as they sit over dinner at a restaurant he chose or agreed to take her to.

[annie24]

As if on cue, my local newspaper just published a list of cheap, romantic date ideas. too funny. In addition to the things i've already listed (picnics, movie screenings on campus, community theater...), they also recommended going to the campus observatory and looking together at stars at night, or going to the university "crafts center" to make some art together. cute ideas.

 

sigh. that boy called me again last night, though i didn't pick up. he wants to see me again. i just can't take it. I'd normally never "axe" a guy for this, but he told me he'd call me on sunday night. (which he might have, i don't know, my cell phone wasn't getting reception). Instead, i got a text from him on monday. text. ugh. haven't returned his call.

[annie24]

My husband has no college degree but I still love him. He works hard to help provide for us, I don't care about some wall plaque saying "Good job, you attended class and took a test."

 

yeah, yikes, my diploma means so much more than I took one test and one class. 5 years of intense math and science classes, 5 years of not getting enough sleep, 2 majors, i tutored and taught classes for low-income and minority youths, worked in a lab studying cancer.... man, i did a lot in college!

[jengh]

yeah, have to agree with annie and batya on the college thing. It's a lot of work. SO MUCH MORE than going to class and taking a test. It's more like... have no life for 4-5yrs, write hundreds of pages worth of papers, give up sleeping, go broke... but it's worth it for the career advancements and bettering yourself.

[Batya33]

yeah, have to agree with annie and batya on the college thing. It's a lot of work. SO MUCH MORE than going to class and taking a test. It's more like... have no life for 4-5yrs, write hundreds of pages worth of papers, give up sleeping, go broke... but it's worth it for the career advancements and bettering yourself.

 

And when those darn looseleaf binders filled to the brim with papers decided to open while you were rushing to your next class down the stairs....ugh I am dating myself, I know!

[jengh]

And when those darn looseleaf binders filled to the brim with papers decided to open while you were rushing to your next class down the stairs....ugh I am dating myself, I know!

 

hahahaha, no, I still hand-write all my notes. I have a laptop, I just learn better when I write things down.

 

that made me laugh. It makes me remember my first year at Michigan State. I was SO late for class one day, it was a snowing, blizzardy hell... binder in one hand, coffee in other.. there was this outdoor area where i had to run down steps...That was the day I learned that Birkenstocks DO NOT have good traction. I slipped and fell all the way down the snowy, slushy steps. Paper everywhere. Coffee everywhere. Not one person asked if I was okay

[Batya33]

hahahaha, no, I still hand-write all my notes. I have a laptop, I just learn better when I write things down.

 

that made me laugh. It makes me remember my first year at Michigan State. I was SO late for class one day, it was a snowing, blizzardy hell... binder in one hand, coffee in other.. there was this outdoor area where i had to run down steps...That was the day I learned that Birkenstocks DO NOT have good traction. I slipped and fell all the way down the snowy, slushy steps. Paper everywhere. Coffee everywhere. Not one person asked if I was okay

 

Ugh - so sorry -- I can't believe no one stopped to help you! I also learn much better by handwriting so even when I got a computer (in 1992, in grad school!!) I still handwrote my notes and outlines.

[jengh]

Yeah, people at State were VERY rude as a whole. I think I wound up just skipping class. I was too mortified, wet and cold. Not to mention, all of my paper was ruined.

 

I'm SO OCD about outlining and note-taking. I write EVERYTHING down. In a one-hour lecture, I wind up with about 10 pages of notes. It's a little excessive.

[FortunateOne]

This thread reminds me of the two tom cats last night.

[Daligal83]

completely off topic...but ILMBC, you should have gone to University of Michigan instead Much better than Michigan State! OK..school bashing that I was ingrained with from childhood is over...

 

I think how people go about money is important. It's OK if you don't make a lot, but it is important to live within your means. If you're taking a date out to an expensive restaurant that you truly cannot afford, you probably don't know how to live within your means. When you don't make a lot, you need to learn to get creative at times and this includes your dating life. I know that if I was in annie's position, I would be frustrated because I want a guy that knows how to manage the money he does have without making me feel bad for it. My dad is insanely cheap, which worked to save a ton of money but he can also take it way too far. My parents have bought one bed during their 33 year marriage and have had it for 25 years. He insists that it's fine and they don't need a new one. Ridiculous. (disclaimer...I love my dad and he's a wonderful person...we all have our faults, it was just relevant to the thread in my opinion)

[grymoire]

Ugh - so sorry -- I can't believe no one stopped to help you! I also learn much better by handwriting so even when I got a computer (in 1992, in grad school!!) I still handwrote my notes and outlines.

 

Hi Batya,

 

Just being curious, which school did you go to?

[just M.E.]

Annie,

 

Your candor is refreshing. No, there is nothing wrong with how you feel. Once upon a time, it was the norm. Now we have gotten so hyper sensitive about male-female roles, we have lost some of that romance and chivalry. A man can open your door and still view you as an equal. A man can pay for dinner and there shouldn't be any feelings that something is owed.

 

Like the buck deer that fights to prove he is the best, having a man show he is a worthy partner in life is not such a bad thing. I have a wonderful family friend who teaches young couples in his church before marriage. He tells every young groom, "You spent all this time convincing her to marry you, now you need to spend the rest of your life convincing her that she didn't make a mistake". I'm not sexist at all, it in life it really goes both ways, but isn't that a wonder way to enter marriage?

 

I wonder if when we strive to make changes in society if we don't become reactionary and go beyond common sense, go too far, become too overly sensitive to what is better than before.

 

I am at a stage in life where I am really tired of being the financial pillar in relationships, I really fell if I let a man into my life in the future, he should have as much to lose as I do!

[jengh]

completely off topic...but ILMBC, you should have gone to University of Michigan instead Much better than Michigan State! OK..school bashing that I was ingrained with from childhood is over...

 

 

agreed. i got into both but my parents are die-hard state fans and pushed me to go there (i dont really know why, u of m is a better school)

 

plus, the boys at u of m are a LOT nicer. state boys are just after booty.

[JadedStar]

To add; there's been times I feel like saying the heck with all this pretentious perfect mate want and just get me a trophy wife so I can leave this trying search for the most compatible mate behind.

 

And then when she screws your friends behind your back and you end up with an awful STD you will be thinking WHAT WAS I THINKING! LOL

 

Sorry, you know me, the eternal optimist in a sea of dark. LMAO

[jenny_mcs]

completely off topic...but ILMBC, you should have gone to University of Michigan instead

 

Just had to chime in to say GO BLUE!

[annie24]

so, the 34 year old guy sent me another text message yesterday saying, 'not interested in a 2nd date? i thought we had a good time...." i haven't responded (not to that, nor to his call and message on wednesday or his other text on monday). i'm just pondering what to say. part of me is pissed that he said he would call on sunday night, but i didn't get a call from him that night, i only got a text the next day. (granted, he could have tried to call, but my phone didn't have reception that night in the theater, so the call didn't register, in any case, he didn't leave a voicemail). part of me wants to answer back to him and say, 'you didn't call on sunday night like you promised, and i'm tired of guys who don't live up to their promises.'

 

i realize how hurt and crazy that would make me sound. then i realize, i am really hurt by guys in the past, and how i feel many of them haven't treated me well at all. of course, i realize that this guy may have had a good reason for not calling on sunday night (maybe he didn't get home from out of town until really late, maybe he just was too tired, etc....) but still, it just kind of made me realize how much i just don't want to tolerate crappy behavior. this is a guy i'm already on the fence about (lack of college, complained about his financial difficulties, etc....) i just have a gut feeling like if i were to date him, we'd just break up in a few weeks or months, and then that time would have been wasted. right now, i'm at a stage where i'd rather watch reruns of "Law and Order" on friday night than hang out with a guy i'm not completely excited about.

 

thinking of texting him back, 'thanks, but upon further thought, i don't think we are a match' and just leave it at that....