Seriously, i'm not selfish and materialistic but......

[grymoire]

To be honest, Grymoire, I have to say that I think you're the person that complains THE MOST about the opposite gender on this site - more than almost anyone I've ever seen on this site. It's actually pretty relentless with your posts. I kind of feel offended when I read some of your generalisations about women, it's pretty insulting stuff that you post about ALL women. Please don't reply with specific examples again about someone in a deleted thread, I understand that you had a row and called someone a *beatch* - I find that you post a lot of critical stuff about women in general, which is something I would never ever do about men. And that kind of is quite offensive, to be honest.

 

I'm just saying - you dish out more gender bashing and criticism than most people here. Just a thought for you.

 

really?? do you really mean this???

 

do you truly think that i am the person that complains the most about the opposite gender?

 

ok... what should i do when i am criticized by a woman? just keep quiet and lose my self respect? you wouldn't keep quiet if a guy says "only men with low standards will date a woman like you".. would you???

[Batya33]

ok fine.... if he asks he pays..

 

and the you have another rule right? - men should always ask out women. not the other way round

 

No, I've never ever posted that nor do I believe it.

[Batya33]

It's your last assumption that has no basis in fact or reality, particularly since several other reasons have been pointed out as to why your thread provoked the responses it did. Apples and oranges, especially since the quoted post was not asking "why can't I meet anyone if I have all these material things?" I understand it's easier to blame it on "gender discrimination" than taking a closer look at the other reasons which are more personal to your particular thread.

[Lowconfidence]

all that i am asking is why the discrimination.. that is all... i was accused of boasting and bragging and coming accross as crass for mentioning about my job and education... but the below mentioned post happens but not even one attack was made... why? i am assuming because she is a woman and i am a man..

 

While I'm not totally on your side(but I do see you have some valid points) I noticed thejigsup original post and thought it was sort of shallow on her part.

[Batya33]

While I'm not totally on your side(but I do see you have some valid points) I noticed thejigsup original post and thought it was sort of shallow on her part.

 

I believe her point was that to each her own and she values these materialistic aspects of her boyfriend's lifestyle. There are always tradeoffs, however since if what she says is true, he probably works far longer hours than someone who makes less money. That may be fine for her but maybe wouldn't be fine for another person. She wasn't writing that she can't find a man to love and love her in return but also insists on the type of lifestyle she described.

 

The lifestyle she describes would not be for me, for example because I would not like the imbalance between my income and his unless I worked in the home raising a child. I also don't care about the size of a house, multiple grills or a jacuzzi - and I probably wouldn't feel myself in that environment anyway. To each her own.

[itsallgrand]

Interesting thread!

 

And Annie, hey, I think now that you know this you'll have an easier time finding the right guy for you.

 

Nothing ever wrong with being honest with oneself.

[orangesoda]

heh, i don't think the OP is admitting anything that an experienced (in dating) guy doesn't already know.

 

if you don't have money, you'd better look like Brad Pitt. Otherwise, be prepared to shell out money during the 'chase', the 'relationship', and the 'marriage', in order to keep your woman happy.

 

don't believe me?

 

google around for the #1 cause of divorce.

 

hint: $$$$.

[Batya33]

heh, i don't think the OP is admitting anything that an experienced (in dating) guy doesn't already know.

 

if you don't have money, you'd better look like Brad Pitt. Otherwise, be prepared to shell out money during the 'chase', the 'relationship', and the 'marriage', in order to keep your woman happy.

 

don't believe me?

 

google around for the #1 cause of divorce.

 

hint: $$$$.

 

You're assuming that the money issues are that the woman expects the man to buy her things and pay for her during the marriage - do you have any support for that? From what I understand the money issues range wildly from financial problems (which can involve both people or just the woman), different values about spending and saving and debt, gambling issues, etc -I have never heard that the main money issue is a man who can't pay for the woman.

[fragmint]

You're assuming that the money issues are that the woman expects the man to buy her things and pay for her during the marriage - do you have any support for that? From what I understand the money issues range wildly from financial problems (which can involve both people or just the woman), different values about spending and saving and debt, gambling issues, etc -I have never heard that the main money issue is a man who can't pay for the woman.

 

good point just because money is an issue it doesnt mean its the issue of a guy cant pay for everything. just spending within your means and not running up credit cards/debt can be a big issue between a lot of couples. having a rich guy might be able to prevent 'some' money related issues, but not all of them.

[Lowconfidence]

You're assuming that the money issues are that the woman expects the man to buy her things and pay for her during the marriage - do you have any support for that? From what I understand the money issues range wildly from financial problems (which can involve both people or just the woman), different values about spending and saving and debt, gambling issues, etc -I have never heard that the main money issue is a man who can't pay for the woman.

 

I thought OrangeSoda's post was self-explanatory.

 

Money is the number cause in divorce. It can make or break a relationship. Of course there are a lot of other factors but when a person is rolling in money all of life's problems seem a bit smaller.

[Batya33]

I thought OrangeSoda's post was self-explanatory.

 

Money is the number cause in divorce. It can make or break a relationship. Of course there are a lot of other factors but when a person is rolling in money all of life's problems seem a bit smaller.

 

Actually I disagree -there can still be major issues over spending and saving, generosity, etc. especially if there is a disparity in income between the couple.

 

I didn't find OS's post relevant to this discussion because it assumed that the money issues were of a particular type - an assumption without any basis.

[Lowconfidence]

Actually I disagree -there can still be major issues over spending and saving, generosity, etc. especially if there is a disparity in income between the couple.

 

I didn't find OS's post relevant to this discussion because it assumed that the money issues were of a particular type - an assumption without any basis.

 

Over spending, saving, giving money away, disparity over income.......all deal with money. And money is the number one cause for divorce!

 

OrangeSoda got a little sidetracked with the OP but we all do.

 

And I don't think the OP is being unreasonable for wanting a man to at least pay or the first date. I never ask a female out without the intention of at least paying for it.

[Batya33]

Over spending, saving, giving money away, disparity over income.......all deal with money. And money is the number one cause for divorce!

 

OrangeSoda got a little sidetracked with the OP but we all do.

 

And I don't think the OP is being unreasonable for wanting a man to at least pay or the first date. I never ask a female out without the intention of at least paying for it.

 

Yes, it is my only point is that that doesn't mean that a man not paying for the woman is the number one cause of divorce.

 

I agree with you on the rest.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

I have to be honest and say I'm getting really tired of lots of threads recently starting out on one topic and rapidly degenerating into a 'who's worse, men or women' debate.

 

Then that's always followed by at least one reference to all the 'bad feminists' on this board that are really thinly veiled attacks from men bitter towards women in general.

 

Then the stereotype of evil women who are nasty to men and want to take them for money is trotted out.

 

If you want to work out your bad feelings towards women, start a thread on being bitter towards women and feminists. Don't try to keep polarizing every thread into a black and white attack on women posters or men posters or drag out the 'bad feminist' argument yet again.

 

It detracts from discussions on the original posters question, and hashes over the same old stew.

 

This post started out to be a discussion of how Annie gets tired of being made to feel guilty about going out to dinner and the guy wanting to buy, and how she'd just like them to buy what they can afford (or ask her to split). It's gotten way way off topic when it descends into one of these men vs. women backwater swamp arguments.

[grymoire]

It's just grymoire LOL. Or maybe he's the head of the women-haters. I think there are quite a few males on here who are fair in their judgments and certainly not that militant about their bitterness (if any) towards women. Hopefully one (or a few) bad eggs won't ruin your experience here.

 

sorry for hijacking your thread annie24.... i didn't mean to....

 

and i don't mean to bash women either........ but i know i am coming accross that way....... i don't wish to prove any bias any more and keep getting bad name....

[Cassie]

Annie, just knowing your personality through time on this board, I honestly don't think money is the issue; instead it seems you crave a man who is thoughtful, sweet and knows how to make you feel properly appreciated. This is very reasonable since you yourself are very thoughtful and sweet, so naturally you'd want these qualities reciprocated in a companion.

 

Two first dates stand out in my mind. One took place at a swank restaurant where the tab came to over $200 and the man insisted on paying. The food was fabulous and the atmosphere stunning. The other date (from a different man) was a surprise picnic with strawberries and champagne and took place underneath the stars next to a beautiful waterfall. Although I deeply appreciated both gestures, guess which date I adored the most?

 

Everyone absolutely must sleep next to a waterfall at least once in their life. I was quite swept off my feet.

 

Edit - I should probably add that my current bf has never 'splurged' on me in the few years we've been together. He has a college degree and a nice career but tends to be a saver. I attribute this to the fact that he grew up in a large family very poor, so the concept of dropping a couple Benjamins in one night is completely foreign to him. He's half Italian and enjoys cooking me these wonderful dinners and desserts, which really touches my heart. I wouldn't trade him in for all the millionaires in the world!

[grymoire]

so the ability to impress the woman matters more?

 

i am sure that both the guys must have been loaded to take you out on such expensive dates.

[Cassie]

No Grymoire, because even though both of those men had the initial 'wow' factor and, yes, were loaded, I didn't stay with them because ultimately they weren't right for me. What matters to me is compatibility and what's in your heart.

 

My bf's idea of splurging is taking me out for coffee or whipping up a tasty home cooked meal, and I love him to bits. I'll take his thoughtful and yummy pesto pasta and chocolate cupcakes over a $200 dinner any day!

[grymoire]

No Grymoire, because even though both of those men had the initial 'wow' factor and, yes, were loaded, I didn't stay with them because ultimately they weren't right for me. What matters to me is compatibility and what's in your heart.

 

My bf's idea of splurging is taking me out for coffee or whipping up a tasty home cooked meal, and I love him to bits. I'll take his thoughtful and yummy pesto pasta and chocolate cupcakes over a $200 dinner any day!

 

oh i see... thanks for explaining...

 

not that i am against $200 dinner dates but i personally would consider that only after entering into an exclusive relationship...

[Batya33]

so the ability to impress the woman matters more?

 

i am sure that both the guys must have been loaded to take you out on such expensive dates.

 

No, the ability to show that you're a generous, thoughtful person which can be reflected in an expensive dinner or in ordering a pizza and serving your date first, or in bringing her homemade cookies. I don't want to be "impressed" if there is to be long term potential, I want to be comfortable and feel at home.

[Pegasus]

Annie - stop dating losers.

 

gry, CP and others - us regular guys always have to pay for sex, it's just that sometimes you get the bill and you are sure you will get sex and sometimes when you get a restaurant bill, you just *might* get some if the opportunity is good.

 

And yes, I always pay for dates because that is the way I've been thought by my parents but I don't consider females as equal.

[Tethys]

Hey Annie,

 

I understand how you feel. The guy really should have made the plans. That's his big mistake here -- not that he didn't have a lot of money -- but that he didn't plan the date and pick a restaurant he could afford. Then he made you feel bad on the date because you picked one out of his price range.

 

He put you in the position of making YOU feel bad on a first date, which was perfectly avoidable. He NEVER should have had you pick the restaurant if there was a chance the bill would be a problem.

 

I'm a student too, who has dated many poor students as well. Most of the guys are pretty upfront about their student budget and we compromise. I have never had a guy ask me out, make me choose the restaurant, and then acted like that when the bill came. You didn't do anything wrong, and it's a shame he made you feel guilty on your first date.

 

I remember when one guy asked me out, and I knew he was a student too. He did the whole casual, "Want to go get a bite to eat?" Since I wasn't sure if it was a date or not, I went ahead and said, "Well, can we go somewhere cheap? I can't afford too much." He was all, "Oh no, I got it." He paid for the meal, and the movie and cocktails after, to show me it was indeed a date.

 

Maybe you can try that approach? In that case, I wasn't sure if he was asking me out on a date or if we were friends getting a bite to eat, but it became clear he was trying to show me a good time and asked me a lot of questions that indicated he was interested in me beyond just two people hanging out.

[annie24]

Annie - stop dating losers.

 

gry, CP and others - us regular guys always have to pay for sex, it's just that sometimes you get the bill and you are sure you will get sex and sometimes when you get a restaurant bill, you just *might* get some if the opportunity is good.

 

And yes, I always pay for dates because that is the way I've been thought by my parents but I don't consider females as equal.

 

lol pegasus, i hope you are not insuinuating that women are inferior to men. i agree that men and women are not the same, but i don't consider one better than the other....

 

and yes, stop dating losers is good advice! lol, it's just you never know by looking at them who is a loser and who is a catch. the best i can do is to leave when i see bad behavior. as a result, i've probably saved a lot of time by leaving after a few weeks or months, as opposed to years or decades of bad behavior.

 

you know, i really do like the finer things in life - fancy trips, meals, nice clothes, etc..... and i would love to go out to the expensive restaurants wearing expensive jewelery with some guy..... however, when it comes right down to it, i wouldn't enjoy it if i didn't like the guy. i'd rather be eating pizza with a guy i really like, than eating an expensive meal with a guy i thought was boring or a jerk. i'd lose my appetite trying to laugh at his stupid jokes.

 

a friend of mine a few years ago was complaining that she would never date a man again who didn't make at least 3 times as much money as her. i thought that was really an awful, materialistic thing to say. (part of why we aren't friends anymore). i think there are a lot of noble professions where the man may not make much money, but is stil making a difference in the world. like men who are teachers, public defenders, etc.... but gosh..... not really liking guys 'eyeballing' the bill like that anymore. really, it's the guilt!!! i don't want to feel like i am making some guy poor, or that i have to give sex in return for him to have made an 'investment' on his dinner (gosh, i am so not that kind of person!!!)

[annie24]

PS - and just to mention, since we do live in a major university town, there are PLENTY of free or nearly free events, especially ones sponsored by the university. things like outdoor concerts, world class performers, dance and music performances by local artists and professors.... all either free, or for a small fee, like $5. and there's lots of outdoor food, like food carts, hot dogs, or chinese food or mexican food that you can take with you to watch an outdoor show.

[grymoire]

gry, CP and others - us regular guys always have to pay for sex, it's just that sometimes you get the bill and you are sure you will get sex and sometimes when you get a restaurant bill, you just *might* get some if the opportunity is good.

 

And yes, I always pay for dates because that is the way I've been thought by my parents but I don't consider females as equal.

 

I just hope that it is not true