backinlife

Ja, maybe. I am crushed today I wish he would have been ready for you. For me so far, after something good ended, something even better started. That has been happening all my life. People call me lucky. There are two conclusions one could draw now: A.) i deserved a fall B.) something even better will happen. And i believe in that. I always fall on my feet somehow. Same for you I hope I am a believer. But I feel stupid for it. It is Frankfurt Germany.... They pay so much i wouldn't know what to do with all that cash. LOL, maybe pay back my debt? Not today, but soon again, I am sure Mona

Wish my Ex was where "D" is. But i guess his pain has a bigger source (the cheating) and for him its much easier to blame me, cause there is more substance to be angry at Ja, that is a huge change. We were living in New Delhi. Busy city, but different worries. We had all the money we needed and were happy when water came out of the tab. We went shopping together, and had fun buying milk and finding beef (that was one adventure i need a whole thread for it) Electricity was sometimes off and no fans... and yet we had sex 3 times a day... In Germany we were busy doing stuff, stupid stuff. Paperwork, paying bills. We were so nervous all of a sudden and grabby. i was a happy girl in Delhi. We would stand out on the Balkony and watch the city. We would hear music from a distance and relax. Here everything got so busy and hectic. He must have felt like * * * *, if he cares for you. Ja, no doubt you two were in tough situations. Hardly any relationship would have survived this pressure. Especially when general doubts about oneself come in. What happened was clearly a result of the constellation. Once that becomes clearer, it is easier to solve the issues. Ja, true, and sad, but I am not losing hope in love i general. And my man was a very special guy. There was a lot of magic in our relationship, so i believe in the magic to go on... hope you too. These are the things he will have to lok at eventually. He can't shove this away for ever. That's a good thought. It got me thinking. No pool today for me, but i got a lot of work done. I called my number one priority potential employer. Its been long since i had the interview there. He said "If we thought we don't want you, we would have rejected you by now" So i said "If you thought you wanted me, you should have sent me a contract by now" He cracked up laughing.... I hope he keeps that in mind when deciding. Mona

If I wouldn't have you, I'd think I am crazy....You rock! And your way of dealing with this is exceptional. Poeple strong as you, so strong that they can sound stupid for love and still do what is right, are hard to find. The reward for this might take a long time to come, but for now we have to be happy with doing the right thing Mona

That is huge! Since you are doing the same, and grow, he must grow too. You wouldn't take him back if he was the same guy who was so mean and also insecure and influenceable. So there is movement necessary on both sides. You are moving, and he is moving. Maybe even in the same direction. Its just depressing that you guys can't do that together. Thats how it should be, being down together and then pulling each other up. But if i look at your situation, it WAS a tough one. You suddenly had this completely different life, different priorities, different style. You were different, cause suddenly the things that came easy in the Caribbean, you had to now fight for and things didn't work out like you thought they would. Back in the Caribbean this maybe wouldn't have thrown you around like that, but in the States it did. This busy and success oriented life style makes it hard if things don't work, and you feel even worse then. You moved there together, so even if "D" did never express it clearly and did not act on it like he should have, your situation put a lot of pressure on him. And he couldn't take this pressure, so he opposed it. When you said you would leave, suggested the break, he felt like a failure. He knew very well that he was the one that should help you trough this, and he didn't manage. Maybe he even thinks he tried hard, but he didn't do what you expected obviously. On "D's" side there was a lot of change too. He had been in the Caribbean for long, it must have been hard for him to come back to LA. He was suddenly confronted with a lot of things, different expectations. And in times like these, when we are trying to find ourselves in a new surrounding, we have strange ideas of who we are and who we want to be. And he had you on your side, and STILL he felt like that. That must have made him wonder, whether you are the right person to be on his side. He was astonished that he can feel that way even though you are there. So he tried to remember the last time he was happy without you. And he did, and this lifestyle is exactly what he took on. He didn't consider that its the situation, and not you, that is making him question himself. This realzation will come when you are truly away and he still feels something is missing. Once he is back to himself and misses you, then he will realize that with you he could be even better. But he has to be back to himself. There is a german saying: "If the se is rough, don't set your sail." Things have to calm down so he can see where he is and where he wants to go. You two were drowning, and struggling and in your struggle none of you was able to help the other one up, cause none of you had a secure stand on the ground. Eventually you both will come back to that. This might take ages, and you might be not around then, that is the sad part. And you might not be able to forgive him for the hurt, and he might not either. I think reconciling would be a very hard exercise after the magnitude of the decisions taken and the hurt it caused. But love is big. And the anger might decrease faster than the love. Right now "D" makes you responsible for everything that happens right now. He choses to think that you are the source of his pain. His feeling lost, his struggle, everything. He will understand one day that you were only you and why you did what you did. He will understand that you acted like this "in love" and not "without love". And if he realizes that, you can maybe see the same. It makes no obvious sense to us. But I rely on fate. Maybe this is something you are supposed to do apart. Maybe it is a big mistake...Its sad anyway Those are powerful words and you are brave. You must have been a wonderful person to love that strong and now that you are growing even more, you will come out of this even bigger. Sometimes i get this feeling of calm and peace already, mostly in the evenings. Whenever I crash again, I have to remind myself a million times that this is where i want to be. But sometimes it just hurts and i want to stomp my feet like a little girl and hate him for what he has destroyed. And i know he feels the same sometimes. We are united in this quest, even if we see it differently right now, even if we look at different things right now, the quest is our bond. And i am sure that goes for you and "D" too. And if there is love, then it can't be rationalized away, it can't be neglected or twisted. If it is there, then it will find its way to the surface again, I am sure. The waters are rough now, we need to wait it out, risking that we will find we have floated apart. This water and sailing analogy got a little out of control.... But it is early morning and i get all sentimental. Maybe its a sign and i should go to the pool? Hope you feel good today, don't be scared, we are good and need to rely that good people can see it. Mona

That is another parallel. I am obsessed with those parlallels. In this new group of students "R" is in now, everybody is breaking up. They making each other feel good about not having a girl and being free and wild. They feel like they are going though their last 2 years of bachelorness. He got a lot of "advice" from them, having beers together and telling each other that serious relationships are for later, and now they have this chance to casual sex and wildness... "R" had had that before, we talked about this in our relationship. He said he was happy enough, but it had been hollow happiness. God, I just went trough his text messages to find the one he wrote on the topic.... and found a lot more. "Hey Mona, I just wanna tell you my love for you is absolute, n no matter how long it takes, u r the only one for me. No way im settling for anything less. So prepare yourself to be completely swamped by love. I love you and just wanna smother you with kisses. Hug u soooo close to me. Love you sooo much, soooo much my darling baby" "Honbun tell me u still love me… Without u I,m so lonly, so many people around me but i only want to me with ur memories. I look at the foto of us hanging n I just can,t control mz longing for ur arms… they r the onlz place I want to be in..Once I have you back im not letting u go again…ever" "I hope so too. But I have faith both of us r meant tob together. U make me complete, n I make u complete. We both need each other equally n love each other equally, I think that's the basis for a strong relationship. So long that we understand the value of what we have n the near impossibility of ever finding it again, we just can't fail. " "U r a gem, n that's why I'm so scared to lose u. Luckily, bcoz I know how precious u r, I'm sure I'll never lose u n will smhow get u back, but I'm feelin so happy 4 what we have, n then suddenly I come crashing down with the fear that I could lose this all. Wish I could get rid of this fear for ever…" That was not a smart thing to do.... Exactly the same here. He was embarrassed when i called him when he was out with his new friends.. Earlier he would have been smiling and talked in his soft voice and siad he missed me without thinking about it. When I called him when he was with his new friends he would talk like i am a stalker. The party will be over. Question is, will he then see what he has thrown away, or will he keep protecting himself? Doesn't matter, now that i think of it. Cause you and me know, that's sufficient. I tried inviting you to Open BC, but it says you have an invite already. For jobs in Europe Open BC is precious, put up a profile there, it works for me. My applications are going out this week too finally. We are doing the right thing. (I hope) Mona

I agree. He knows everything he needs to know. He didn't take a rational decision, so he won't change his mind due to facts. He knows you pulled out for reasons of your past, he knows you will figure them out. Thats all he needs to know. Telling him about your progress in councelling won't push him the other way. I think so too! Especially after he tried to find someone who can live up to you ;-) He will be depressed as hell about his stubborness. Either he will act on it and grow, or he will be depressed and bitter

I am obsessive! I don't contact him, clearly, NC, but I do check his call records (he would never know i can even do that, and i am paying for his phone still, so feel its my right) From the phonebills i see a.) the numbers he is calling (no clue who is behind them though) b.) whether he calls one number often (does he have a friend, or even a grilfriend?) If thats not obsessive.... I got another one. He plays this onlibe virtual soccer game. If I go to his team's page, I can see his 5 latest log in times. I look at them quite often. it makes me feel close to him without actually making contact. So at least i see he is taking care of his team late and night and not in bed with a girl. Really, this stuff is counter productive. And now that i say it.... i haven't checked all this stuff in a while, and i don't feel the urge anymore. But i was quite far gone a week ago. Its getting better! Mona

Hey all, I read your advice to Leigh, and I also feel that it gets harder and harder for D to come back to her. But its certainly not her fault. She said she was ready to work thorugh this, he closed the door. Now his pride is hurt (and if he would look at the issue close enough, and he does have all the info needed for that, it is very clear that it doesn't have to do with him what she is going through, so no reason for hurt pride) and he can't do anything else than the rude things he is doing. Acknowledged. But what about Leigh's pride? This guy didn't fall for her cause she is the kind that lets herself being treated this way and stick around. And if he can't come back cause she started smoking again, well, or cause she freaked out in a really difficult situation of her life, well. I personally demand more from the guy i want to spend my life with. A forgiving, understandig guy, that has enough balls to get over his false pride. Just imagine you have kids... or something really depressing happens in your life... then you need someone who can give without instant getting back. Someone who can be above situations and can deal with stuff. I wouldn't want to be with a guy that is so mean. And after these things happened, truly lines are crossed. Leigh thinks it can be mended, but D is not even trying. And the way he makes her suffer now, without even telling her that he is sorry, but he needs this time, or anything to hold on to, that is rude and mean. I know that Leigh hurt him bigtime with proposing a break, but she reconsidered when she saw he was hurting. I think the worst problem in existing relationships are power games. Meaning doing someting you don't feel to get someone do something you want. It is manipulative. Like not being available when you really want to, just to keep the other person interested. If there is real love, these games are unnecessary. And i think a breakup is no reason to start them either. She IMed him, he didn't respond. And he knows she is hurting, confused and down on the floor. Sure it made her hurt and angry. Why not say that? What kind of a person would she be to have light and nice conv with a guy that dumped her when she was down and depressed, made her move back to her family and doesn't even want to make it good again? It hurts! And if admitting that makes her chances smaller to get him back, well so be it! This guy showed her the door. Someone else in this forum (forgot who) said: How many times do they have to shoot at us till be understand we are getting shot? Why would she go through the pain to pick the stuff up, if he wanted to reconcile he doesn't have to wait till she comes back to pick stuff up, he could easily do that. And he knows she wanted that, so he is not even risking a fall. She on the other hand has a good chance he would reject her again, so why would she put herself in that position again? This guy can't even call her and ask how she is doing allthough he knows she is going through hell... She made her decisions with him, he is not considering her right now, and that is a deal breaker for me. Why should she sit around in her hometown when he is there? To give him the opportunity to hurt her once again? If he had any intention to mend things, he would call her up and tell her he will be in town and wants to talk to her about getting back together. Anything below is too little. And if she is ruining her chances now cause she doesn't pretend she is ok and has all the time in the world, then this is the truth. Cause she doesn't have all the time in the world, and she is not fine. She is crying. And the guy who should be her best friend and partner, the guy that was the most important person in her life, can't deal with it and doesn't comfort her. That is rude and cruel. If a friend of mine would be so cruel towards me i would not accept that, and from a partner, thats even more unacceptable. I know that the advice in this forum is mainly NC, don't whine to them, be strong, appear nonchalant and all, and i think NC can be great. But pretending I am ok, pretending that I want to have conversation about the weather and everything is mellow and rosy, that is a mere lie. If i am hurting like mad, crying, havbin bad dreams and rhink life is * * * *, then everybody who loves me has to listen to it and be able to take it. And who loves me will, and who doesn't will be put off. This will not be the last time in Leigh's life where things don't look that great. A partner who is really on her side can take that. Even if she is so insecure that she thinks she can't burden him with it and wants to leave.... real love is something else than what D is doing. And if she has to trick him back with telling him its all right and she is fine, what's the point? Net time there is a problem she will have to solve it again alone. A relationship for me suggests working through things together. And he is not ready for that. I have to quote the movie " a lot like love": "Honestly, if you're not willing to sound stupid you don't deserve to be in love." If this guy can't get over himself for love then she can't force him. Maybe he will eventually settle for her, but what is the point? He hasn't fought, he puts no effort into this, he doesn't even try. The next time they have a problem he will do exactly the same, and then she is bound to fight it alone again. if this guy doesn't wake up soon he will have lost her. And he knows he is risking that right now, and still can't even tell her that he wants to try. Then he doesn't deserve it. He knows she is there waiting for him. I know she would come running if he would ask for it, but he doesn't, so why should she. Sorry about my ranting... I am in a similar situation and i have an angry day again... Mona

ya, thats the case.... I am there all the way with you Their son's heart is frozen though That sounds real good, but on the other hand, he maybe doesn't talk to them about it much, doesn't want to hear what they say, and furthermore, probably he doesn't know what to say. The man seems confused, seems to still love you, I don't know if you should take his father's comment too seriously. Not many people can grasp that two people who love each other can't be together, and it shocks people, cause they want to believe in love... so people love the thought that you two could get back together, me too! So i would tell you "never say never" just to make myself feel better about my own situation, just to not give up the notion of "love conquers all"... I think it is very legitimate after the rejection to now go your own ways. As i stated earlier, physical distance was not an issue in your relationship, and if push comes to shove you will overcome that easily. For now, sitting at home is the thing that brings you apart the most. What shall you do now? The guy told you goodbye, should you stand around now and wait? Would he respect you for that? You need to respect his decision, and all you are doing is taking the consequences. The man said he doesn't want to plan with you anymore. And it would be offensive if you now planned with him. So be it. Really. Let's not make fools of ourselves. That is what he wanted. We need to take them for what they say. shocking! The girl he loved for her independence, then kicked out for her insecurities, makes a independent decision...must have been a shock for him, maybe it gets him thinking... Ja, sad, he slammed the door and now he wants to open it a bit, to check what is happening outside there. Make sure when he gets a glimpse on you he sees a woman that kept her integrity. We can't legitimately be blamed for not trying enough, we did. He knows you are still up for it if he wanted to, you don't need to do more than that. The ball is clearly in his court. The thing to do then would have been to call or IM and text and say, sorry u were upset, I was out and didn't see you were messaging. The pride prevented him, sad for him. That could be everything. He can't discuss the relationship with the woman he loves, so he won't discuss it with her step-mother either. He feels confused and is scared to close the door, but as long as he can't open it either, thats nothing to be happy about. maybe he is shocked at what he has dine, maybe he is shocked how your life now changed, maybe maybe maybe... It does sound like that. This is over. whether something new can start or not, we don't know. But you need to take what he is saying now. Thats all you have, his words (which are quite clear) and his actions (which are quite clear too). You are not leaving him, you are just reacting to what he said. And he said it is over, and for him it seems to be. Give him that. Let him keep his integrity and keep yours. I hope i was not too negative. I am not objective right now, cause i am so angry at my ex i could scream... And your situation reminds me of mine, so much so that "D" is annoyingme too.... Mona

We are stubborn too. We insist with all we have that we could work things out. Sometimes i think, my Ex is a smart man, he really is, i love his intellect and I think he takes good decisions. I was ready to put my life in his hands and never had a doubt that he will handle it to my best interest. Maybe I have to trust him on this one... Well, maybe he thought that too, but then you left, and suddely he felt like a fool for believing it I am thinking along the same lines. The solution to this can only be: Don't be a threat. I have been thinking about this a lot, and i tried to find a way that i can stop threatening him. He is still do hurt and full of pain. With my mail i tried to appear less as a threat and at the same time still bein around. My Ex reacted really bad to me wanting to come back (he said its disrespecting his feelings and making my mistake small by pretending it can be forgiven) and he also reacted bad when i told him i let him go ("I knew that you would be able to move on in a flash, this was never important to you"). So i am finding a middle way and hope it gives him more distance. After you compromised the notion of "love can conquer anything" he felt stupid to keep that up. Now he has a new ideology, like "love is not enough" (that's my ex's). I don't have time either. My boy is moving to South Africa in 30 days and I have no clue where i will end up working, probably not anywhere near him. But when I met him, I had a planeticket for a different continent and departure was 30 days away. And it looked like we won't be together anytime soon. We tried anyway, and we managed to spend only 60 days without each other in that year, allthough we were living 6000 miles away and had responsibilities on different continents. The world is small... if you decide to try again, physical distance will not change it. so much for physical distance. The emotional distance is something else. This makes me nervous too. On the one hand its a big thing to not solve this together. There is a high risk that you will grow apart. On the other hand, everything your Ex experienced so far, makes him what he is now. He is a sum of experiences, and it is a huge coincidence that he became the person you love. Same goes for you. The common past won't rescue the connection, but the sum of experience is. Not being connected at all, is better than being connected in pain (I hope) We have to rely now that we made a good choice with our partners. Once the hurt is gone, they will be able to see the good. i am not really there yet, I am mostly sad when I think back. Even the good stuff makes me sad, this will take a while. Distraction up until complete bliss cannot last for ever. It works for some time. Both our Exes are really busy right now and caught up in a new life. We are sitting at home and have not much to do, so of course we are forced to deal with everything, and they don't. But at some point they will have to. And then its up to them really. They can say, well good times, i could have done something else and be happy, but its too late. The could say, well good times, i wonder what she is up to and whether i can call her up and tell her how i feel. Then they have a full range of possibilities.... I am excited, and I wonder if I would be up for that after a long time of healing... No, he didn't. he will either take a lot of time for a response, or not write back. My mail wasn't exactly asking questions and demands no answers, that was made pretty clear. Furthermore i think he doesn't know what to say. I think he realizes sometimes what a fool he is... And he is not the kind of guy who would admit that easily. And really, what could he say? There is no answer to my mail. Today was weird. I again didn't get my * * * up, tried sleeping in the afternoon, so that i am not conscious for a while. Crahsed even more in the evening. But the I went out to see a friend. She set my head straight again and told me not to be angry or hurt, don't make the same mistake like him, he can't escape from his own ties. Trust on his potential and his love. Once he can get rid of the hate (and he has to, cause he loves you, and that is INSIDE of him, so he can't hate himself for ever), he will see more clearly. And then you have to rely on his love and his ability to act on it. Now i am confident again. Mornings are always so bad, and then i get better till the evening. I think i need to find a * * * *ty job, that keeps me busy in mornings. I am sure moving to europe and not waiting around will be good for you. And I feel with you, but really, we can't wait for them to come running and picking us up from our parents place... So lets get moving and get ourselves back on track. Rest will follow. Either with the guys, or not. Europe rocks! Its a nice place, and our mothers have handsome sons too ;-) If nothing works, i think we should just switch partners, they seem like one and the same. Mine will be in Africa, thats also nice, and i always wanted to go to the states ;-) Have a good night, I feel you Mona

Hi Leigh, as you know I wonder about the same things... My mom is a very smart woman,especially considering relationships (she is a therapist and does single councelling and relationship councelling). And I asked her the same questions: why is he on and off, why is he mean, why can't he not respond, if he is so angry, that means he loves me, why does he shove me away so bad, why is he still telling me how much he is hurting while he definitely doesn't want to be with me anymore, and all that... My mom says: While life tricks us into believing we have many choices, we don't. Just because different people do different things, doesn't mean the range of options is avaiable to everyone. It might seem that your Ex could just come back if he loves you so much. It might seem that he could just talk to you about it. It might seem that it would be so easy. he could just call you and say: "baby come back, i love you" and everything would be good for him and for you. But it isn't so. Look at yourself. do you have any other choice than what you are doing right now? Don't you also feel trapped? Maybe your ex thinks you could also have it so easy, just relax and do the things you wanted to do. But you can't. We think the world is full of possibilities, cause we see people do so many different things. But these options are not there for everyone of us. We are rather limited individuals in fact. Me for example. I get into the same fight with my father for 13 years now. The same fight. I have thought about it, I have cried, i tried to not care, i confronted, i fought. But it happens over and over again. Its the same thing, i can't do anything else, it is me. One day it might stop, one day i might find the way out, or the day will never come. My ex handles things the same way since he was little. He is unforgiving, relied on himself, and whenever there is a situation he can't deal with he choses to go nuts and wild and drink and be selfish. He did this all his life, never tried anything else. Me too. Same story. i got very hurt when i was 5 years old. And ever since I am protecting myself from pain. That includes being callous and selfish, not taking people seriously and not giving myself in relationships... We have no other choice sometimes. The only chance we have is to grow beyond. I am also trapped between my self respect and the love,and i wound a trick to be ok with both. The love for him is ME. So if I act on this love its nothing bad, its me. So i can be myself and at the same time be crazy in love with someone who is not willing to act on his love. And it is fine. it must be. My love is inside of me, it's not depending on reflection or action. he has no other choice than do what he does now. And its so strong, he risks your love over it. It is so strong, he can't control it. You think now, but he is such a powerful man, and he could for some time and all that (i think the same) but if he could do something else in this situation he would. He KNOWS you love him, he KNOWS you are good for him, and he has not forgotten how happy he was with you. If he could go back to there, he would as a sane person. Give him time. I have grown, he can do it too. These men cannot be pushed, they will push back harder, as you have stated, and its true. We picked strong guys, we loved that about them. We need to give them the chance to be them again, and then they will realize that we are inside of them. The part of you that is inside of him will do the job. Rely! So that was the smart part.... Otherwise i am crying again and puking. But i am ok with it. I am happy i can feel so strong. And that has to be enough for now. I wrote him this morning: "After all this. All this thinking. After accepting that everything is a narrative, everything is constructed and after i am ok with that and using this to get better. I sit here, and i think i need to do something crazy. I don't know what is moving me. We were crazy, me and you. I want to be crazy once more. And i feel i want to do nothing of the * * * * all the books say, and all my friends say, and what i think i have to do. i want to fall in love with you again. I want to not think about practicalities and working on things, i don't want to think about whether or not we have a chance in hell. I don't even want to TRY hard, or make you feel the same. I don't need a open door from you, I don't need you to work with me. I don't need you to have the same plan. I don't even need you to talk to me on the phone when you don't want to, I don't need you to keep in touch, or "be there". I won't be needy in that sense. This love is completely separate from whether it is reflected or not. No frustration, no hurt, no pain. I want to love the whole person, without the construction, without the phantasies and the dreams, no hollywood, no love story, without the stuff that looks good on paper, but also without the stuff that doesn't look good on paper (like not being together). I want to love you REGARDLESS. As in pure and not affecting my decisions, or my life, or me. And also not affecting you, your life and your decisions. I must sound completely crazy, and it is. I love you, and it was never meant so purely before. Not for the things i mentioned in the beginning, not for the things that have happened in the past, not for my guilt to go away, not for making myself feel better, not for me, and also not for you, not for any purpose at all. Purposeless. This is about ME without it being not about YOU. Is is about YOU inside of ME. Its fully me, cause the seed of this is inside of me, and ever since i am giving it space it grows and grows and it makes me so full. This is my new try. Its an experiment without any purpose or aim. Its new and can't be found in the self help section, Its not even because i want to be this person, or because its my new narrative, or my new "RELIGION". It just is. Cause it exists. Being myself and self sufficient. Not losing myself, but finding myself in this love. Not making a choice thereforeeee there not being a first, second or third choice. No testing, no questioning, no trying to disprove or prove. No physical holding on to, no substance or things that hold it together, no effort, no work, no expectations, no more thinking, just feeling. Mere love. And it comes for free, i need nothing for it, it doesn't cost me a thing. No investment, no pay, no giving anything up. It just gives me more of everything. It gives me being me. The principle behind it would suggest that I don't even write that to you. But I am only a beginner ;-). You might wonder what song I am now listening to... well there is no such song. I am not singing along anymore to what other people feel, or what is supposed to be felt, or what someone finds mainstream or accepted. I am not heartbroken, if it was broken, it wouldn't be so powerful. It was a growing-pain. Be my best friend, be an acquaintance, hate me, think i am not worth the effort, love me, think of me, don't think of me, reply to this or don't, take out your anger or don't, try to make me stop, help me doing it or not, hang up on me, treat me like * * * *, don't love me back, never write me again or write me everyday, fall in love with someone new, cheer for Germany or not, talk about me bad or good, make me repent, stop loving me, trust me or don't, forgive me or not, enjoy being alone or miss me, get over me or not, reject me another 1000 times, poke it, test it, squeeze it, try to scare it away, I have done it, call me Ramona, or Mona or chum, think I have gone crazy, respect me, or don't ever respect me again, think what ever you want, nothing will have an effect on my love. It exists. After everything has fallen down and the dust has settled, it is there, and without all the * * * * around it, it shines brighter than ever. And this is me, and much more. Mona" this is my new "THING", Maybe it works, it allows me to take care of myself without having to fight the love inside of me...Sounds a little crazy, but i have always said, extreme situations demand extreme solutions Maybe I'm crazy, Maybe your crazy, maybe we're crazy. Probably. Mona

Hey blue, so true you are right in every word. I just wish i could feel like that every hour of the day. But i can't. Sometimes i am crashing still and my thoughts are with him. But i am not lost all the time.... And thats a good thing. I hope you are doing better too. Of course you say there was nothing apart from 6 months apart. but i think there must be something more. I mean this reason he brings forward, is kind of small. Maybe he can't see himself with a long distance relationship,maybe it means too much work for him, maybe he doesn't want to burden you. What is behind this? Do you know? Do you still talk to your boy? Or are you doing the widely discussed NC? Tell me more blue Mona

Thanks Leigh, Thats exactly my point. The narratives have to stay dynamic, as people are dynamic. And they need to be agreed upon, all the time, constantly, it about the dialogue. When we had the narrative that we stick together, no matter what, we were fine, but when i cheated, my boy changed his narative, and mine changed too... the love was not wrong, the love was there, just the narrative changed. i certainly had my own life, and he did too. The problem was when my boy made these huge concesions, like moving for me and giving up his life in India, i couldn't deal with it, cause i somehow was scared i had to give up so much now too. He gave up his source of finance, his good life, his career. It freaked me out how much he did for this realtionship. I forgot that this is what he WANTED to do. And from then on it was just a mess. It was not that i couldn't deal with the fact that first he was leaning on me and then i was leaning on him, it was my struggle with the ideas behind it. I had to make peace with it. And he didn't manage to adapt his narrative.... well when i broke out, he felt like a love fool, didn't remember himself that he was the one who WANTED all this. Every second he had spent with me suddenly seemed like a wasted one. He didn't remember that he was happy to do all this for me. Cause he felt i was not. And i couldn't convince him otherwise, he was already too far gone to the other extreme... My signature are his words. Its a quote from paradise lost. read it, you can find it online, its good read. Mona Mona

Hey, I am a cheater. i cheated in a perfectly healthy functioning relationship. i even thought i was in love with someone else. These things happe. You think that cheating and falling in love with other people doesn't match to your notion of what you consider your raltionship with your husband. But you don't have to reject the whole notion, just adjust it. It sounds like i am crazy and callous, but i lost my man by cheating. I felt so guilty and i hurt. I doubted that i loved him. i did love him, very much. Sometimes we do things that hurt the people we love. And its hard to grasp that he hurts you so much allthough he loves you. Talk to him about your pain, try to explane what is going on inside of you. And ask him exactly what he likes about being with the other girl. For me it was that i liked mself in my affair. It gave me a way out of the person i was with my man and i could be the exciting, in love crazy girl with my affair. You can fix this!!! YOu can help him reconsider and help him being happy again as the person he is with you. You love this man, there is no need for so much hurt. i am sure he loves you too. i really am. You think he would act different then, but he might feel he can't. help him. Mona

hmmm robowarrior, this post was less meant to show the feelings i went trough after the break up but more how i made sense of it. It is about what is behind all this... And the meta narrative around it. Well what i am trying to say is that there are choices we make and we make them because of some underlying narrative about how we should live our life. And now saying that you should never give responsibility to someone and not having your own life (which i had BTW, i had my career, my friends and never lost that), is somewhat not an answer to my post. Cause it is a narrative itself. YOU think, one should not lose ones self sufficiency. And that is your narrative. I say, whatever narrative you choose is fine. You can be happy with whatever. I know people who chose to live in complete unity with one person. They make unconditional love their religion, the thing they believe makes sense in life. And they are not necessarily happy, but they might. I also know people who believe only in themselves, and they are not necessarily happy, but they might. It doesn't matter. My point is, that those believes are all naratives and i think they are not universal. So your narrative is yours, and mine is mine, and its fine as long as we both know that its not universal truth, but believes. Those believes can fulfill themselves by being pursued. So if you decide tomorrow that self sufficiency is what you have to pursue in life, and you act on it, then self sufficiency will make you happy and maybe eventually sad, cause it is not THE THING to do. If you decide tomorrow you want to believe in god, you will find happyness in that, or not. But it will be stable happyness if you then stop questioning what you are doing. In order to keep it dynamic you have to question, try and error on these believes, in order to find out what is really true. You can't just construct truth and then decide this is true because you believe it. There is no recipe to happiness. And if i give power to someone, it is still a considered action from my side, and tomorrow i can take it away again. If i give power to someone it is still me doing that, because i think i will benefit from it. I let my boy so close cause i believed i would get something in return, it was a deal. And the narrative behind it was " there is true love" and in order to get this true love we needed to give each other some power. And for the time it lasted we were fine. What killed us, was that the underlying assumptions didn't hold true and so we crashed the whole concept as constructed. This was not the case when i look at it now though. I learned that there can be true love, even if its not as in a hollywood movie (and I think my boy still cares very much for me, and i care for him), but it can take different shapes. I don't have to reect the notion of love anymore just because my relationship ended. This doesn't shock me anymore. So i adjusted my narrative. I am not saying it is the universal truth. But for me this narrative works, and by adjusting it to reality a little bit more, i have come closer to what actually is universal. My post was not meant to indulge into the question on what went wrong or anything. I was trying to say something on a different level. Nothing went wrong with this relationship. It made me figure out things. I grew with this and leaned something. And that is what needs to happen in life. It keeps it dynamic. I look back now and think, wow, if that had not happened i would have never had the chance to find my new take on life. And this new narative will be proven wrong again, and the one after that, and in this process i will get closer and closer to what actually is the meta narative. This relationship could have worked, if my narrative behind it wouldn't have been wrong. If i wouldn't have been shocked about the fact that it was not what i had constructed it to be, if it would have met my notion of love back then, i wouldn't have pulled out, and neither would he. We pulled out cause the notion behind it, the narative was proven wrong, so we though this doesn't fit what we decided to be love. We should have questioned the notion behind it, not the reality. Then it would have worked. But i guess we both needed to grow in that respect, adjust our notions. The love was good, it was just not what we expected it to look like, so we thought well, then its not true love. We should have thought oh, so THAT's what true love looks like, interesting, and then it would have been fine. i hope you understand me more now, not less... Its late and i fear when i read this again that it is not very clear. I am sorry. This is more a philosophical post than a getting back together post. But i think it makes sense here anyhow, cause all these thoughts came out of a breakup and the following trial to fix it. So i just wanted to share what i learned. Mona

Hi all, I have posted my story here ( ) and I read through it every day. But its not necessary to know my story in order to understand me. I read a lot in this forum and follow quite a lot of you for a couple of weeks now. It has been stated a lot that its all about growing. And a week ago that sounded good to my ears, but i didn't really know what to do with that... growing. It sounded too abstract to me. I have grown a ton in the past 3 months, and i realized today, so i would like to share, in order to give the "Growing" in this forum some substance to hold on to. Don’t expect a result, my growing is more a process…. The 10 phases i went through in short: 1. I can't do this anymore, i am losing myself in him 2. I am so sad and i can't run to him 3. I am sometimes getting better but that means he can get better too, so i rather stay sad 4. Suffering is my only connection to him and i don't want to lose him 5. I need to move on cause he will move on 6. Where to, and where is he going? 7. I could just be me again and rely on myself 8. That's vain 9. If this is the world we life in, I don’t want to be part of it, life is * * * * 10. No, it isn't!!! In fact its precious Be assured that the phases didn't occur only after each other, but intertwined and back and forth. Right now i feel like phase 10 for 3 hours already! I need to write it down, right now i feel its the ultimate wisdom.... Phase 1-6 are him-related, totally. And those phases are the most discussed in this forum. There are tons of posts that relate to these phases, and mine are only one example. In this time I thought: Even if i read here i should grow, i though i needed to grow for him. Grow in order to get back to HIM, be a better girl for HIM. Phase 7 and 8 And then i had short phases of insight, that it can only be about me, but then that felt so vain. So Phase 7 and 8 was all about ME and my place in the world and what I wanted from life. I mean i have been that person before. Self sufficient, doing "my thing" being cynical about love. And when i met my boy i really thought there could be another meaning to life. It could be that there is something that is not only constructed, something REAL apart from me. And i fell in love with the notion of love. And he did too. And then we started to believe that if there is something REAL, and not constructed cause we want to believe in something, but something that really exists, then it just exists. So back then we thought there is a reality between us. Something that we didn't construct ourselves, something that is there not because we want it to be, but because it really exists. So when something exists beyond our believe, if its there, really, then it exists regardless of whether we change or thinking about it or not, right? So i tested it. i cheated on him. And then he was completely shocked, cause he thought, if there would have been anything else than our wishful thinking, something that really exists, this shouldn't have happened, and if it happened, i should be able to get over it. But he didn't get over it. And that made me stop believing that there was something real behind this, cause i thought if there is more than wishful thinking, it should persist after the wishful thinking stops.... but we broke up and i had my fair share in this. So there we were, angry at each other for stealing our belief from each other. Angry at each other for proving to each other that this was all constructed and we were stupid to believe it in the first place. We both felt like fools. Like those hopeless romantics we considered naive before we started dating. And now we had fallen for the same idea and failed! So i started doubting everything. I had loved the idea that there are actual real things between people, not just a deal to pursue the same goals and relying on a win-win situation. So when the idea couldn't be held up anymore, i started to think that i can solve this problem by clinging on with all my might. Even if its not a win-win situation, even if i loose big time. Just in order to not giving up the notion of love, i was ready to do anything. Even die. I was in that state for 6 weeks and god it hurt. I lost so much weight, in need to go to a clinic cause i have serious problems from not eating and not sleeping. I have huge debt and haven't taken care of one of my bills. I have neglected all my friends and family and i have steered my life to the edge in only 6 weeks (if i do something i do it properly, you see). And all of that just so i don't have to admit that the notion of love is constructed, that its a narrative. Phase 9: The day before yesterday I gave up. It was not about HIM anymore, and also not about ME, it was about nothing anymore. I tell you what happened: I saw my affair again. She had been thrown out of her new boyfriend’s place and I am the only one she know in this city with a car and a place to sleep. So she called me up and I “rescued” her. We talked and talked and later on I slept with her. I felt nothing for her. Nothing. I knew that I COULD construct this again, I could fall in love with her again. I knew that if I closed my eyes and imagined that we would move in together and be happy and all, then I could actually get back to loving her, constructing it. And from then on I could work on reconstructing the narrative of true love, of how we were just meant to be together and how everything that happened before had to happen in order to be together….. I COULD do that, but I would know that its fake. Same had to go for my lost love then. I could construct it again, we could say, well the break up made us stronger, we are two difficult people, but we are meant to be together, and maybe we would have believed in it again…. That feeling was the emptiest so far. A.) cause it leaves nothing but our own construction, B) cause then all the responsibility is on us, we share it with nobody C.) if I can construct anything, then the other narratives, like being a self sufficient person that needs to do “her thing” is not less a construction. So nothing is real, its all up to what we make of it. See, I thought basically then its completely up to you what religion to follow. The religion of god, the religion of self sufficiency, the religion of being useful to others as in doing good things and save the planet or the children, the religion of love to a partner, you could even buy a dog and make it your religion or a plant, or a playstation. Anything goes. You decide what you want to do with life and do it, and if your religion is your career, then you should go ahead. And I knew that I was capable of that, but I didn’t WANT to, cause with the knowledge I construct my happyness on my own and there is no higher sense, no nothing, it appeared vain to me and whatever direction I chose, I was aware how fake it was. And I have to quote a song here that I never understood up until now: "Losing My Religion" Life is bigger It's bigger than you And you are not me The lengths that I will go to The distance in your eyes Oh no I've said too much I set it up That's me in the corner That's me in the spotlight Losing my religion Trying to keep up with you And I don't know if I can do it Oh no I've said too much I haven't said enough I thought that I heard you laughing I thought that I heard you sing I think I thought I saw you try Every whisper Of every waking hour I'm Choosing my confessions Trying to keep an eye on you Like a hurt lost and blinded fool Oh no I've said too much I set it up Consider this The hint of the century Consider this The slip that brought me To my knees failed What if all these fantasies Come flailing around Now I've said too much I thought that I heard you laughing I thought that I heard you sing I think I thought I saw you try But that was just a dream That was just a dream I felt that song, I felt it. And then I talked to my friends again, and I looked deep inside. And there was a spark…. That was the start of phase 10 Phase 10 Ok, rationally: if it really doesn’t matter what religion we chose, what road we take, then it REALLY DOESN’T MATTER. Pick one. And yes, it is vain, everything is. And that makes it so full. The Meta-narrative is: we are all in the same mess of trying to find a narrative. (Thanks a lot to my good friend Lilly who just had a baby and still listens to my weird stuff) So there is something higher, in a way. Since we all have this spark somewhere hidden. If you don’t move (and that means eventually hit the wall or the floor) you are stable. And stability is the one thing we don’t want, its giving up. If you run now you have at least a chance of finding it one day, and by going wrong you at least can exclude where its not. And what is there is not something you can find. What is there is to try to find it, and be happy doing that. And that’s my new narrative. And it works for me. And I am scared cause everything my friends said makes sense now, but when they said it I wasn’t there yet. So you might think I am a freak, and maybe I am, but I am a happy freak as of now. And yes, I have thought about calling my ex up and telling him what I found out. Cause I like the guy, really I do and I would love to hear what he has to say to it, cause he is a very smart man. When I met him, we were exactly in the same place, even when I called him last week we were. Now I feel I am completely somewhere else. I am so grateful to this man, I can’t even tell you. And I am not going to tell him what I think, cause it would prevent him from getting where I am now. I hope he will get there, as I hope you all will. It is a precious feeling and I love everything today, including me. What a tricky world we live in, and how great that is…. Took me a while to get here, but I got to know myself a lot better… and I like what I see. Don’t let people tell you you have to do one or the other, you don’t need to do anything. Just be aware that you chose what you do and the basis on which you chose is you. I have very small hopes that this is a very understandable text. Naturally, cause it compresses my thoughts over weeks, and I have done nothing else than thinking… I just wanted to share. And tell you it’s not only getting better, it getting great if you let it! Let go! Life is weird! Nothing is perfect, the perfection lies within the weirdness. You make a complex difference. Its not about good or bad, happy or sad, black or white, its about making a difference, moving something, doesn’t matter in with direction, just keeping it dynamic, raising questions, not giving answers. No, I am not taking happy-pills. I am that weird! If you would like to answer to this, i would be glad to hear if any of this makes sense, and i would also hear which phase you consider yourself in. And if you are in phase 11, please tell me what it is... Thank you all for listening and helping me get where i am. My own story alone would have not been sufficient to get here that far that fast, i was benefiting from all of your stories to make sense of all this. Thank you very much Mona

Hey Blue, woke up much too early today again. In the mornings I miss him the most. I wake up and miss him rubbing his nose in my neck. I wake up from dreaming strange dreams of him, always him abandoning me, for example with a new girl. And then my heart is pounding and i have no chance to get back to sleep. And then i can't help but imagine how the room looks he is in (i know every milimeter in this room) and how he is lying in there in his favourite sleeping position. And I wish i could be the pillow. And I remember every little detail of his body, his face, his smell, everything. And i try to remember how it felt to touch him and how it felt when he ran his hands through my hair and looked into my eyes and told me that he loved me. Then I remember that he dumped me, that the man I am describing is not REAL. If he would have meant that all, he would be still around. And if had meant it, honestly, why did i cheat then? And if the chips make it more perfect, then why could they bring it down withing weeks? I am so sad and lonely. And ever since i wrote him the email above, I am losing him from my heart. I am capable to go without crying for 3 hours sometimes, i even ate something yesterday. And that itself is sad too. If i could love him the way you describe it, love him without wanting anything back, then I could let him go and be happy for him. Be happy that he found out what he wants and sticks to it. Be happy when he finds a new girl and is healthy and sane. But I am not. I cry for myself here. I cry cause i am lonely and abandoned and scared. i am not crying for him. Well sometimes i do. i feel guilty for messing him up so much and i feel guilty. But its still my guilt, my self pitty, me me me. How can this be love? And on his side even more. He is angry, scared and all that, but he doesn't think of me. He doesn't feel for me. It's al about him. And thats that. So no true and unconditional love. None of that in fact. Either way it sad. If i can forget this man and get him out of my heart, its sad that that's possible, cause it means he can do that too, and maybe it will be easier for him than for me, cause i cheated on him and he is so busy right now. And if i love him so much that i can let him go, the other possibility, then thats sad too, cause then i seem to really have lost something that i considered special, and he didn't. if i could find a way of thinking that wouldn't hurt so bad, then i could just fight through this, but i am lost as in what to believe in. And i am a very rational person and like to explane things to myself. This stuff has no logic, and that drives me nuts. And the complete stupidity behind my suffering right now makes me respect myself less. It makes no sense. I know he is gone. I know love is not enough to make a relationship work. I know that he cannot come back and staythe man i loved. I know he would never be able to forgive me. I know that practicalities right now make it impossible to start something new and take it slow. I know that we would never be able to talk about marriage or anything serious without being reminded of this. I know I could never forgive him for hurting me so bad. I know that he is happy enough right now. I know that if he wanted me so bad he would do it. I know that the man i knew died, he is cold and different now, even if i would call him now, i would only miss the man i love more, cause that not him anymore. I know that he doesn't WANT that - obiously he would do it if he wanted. I know all these things. So there is no reason to miss him, no reason to be so affected, no reason to mess up my life because of this situation. And still I can't do anything else. I am still not sleeping more than 3 hours and i just puked all the good stuff i managed to eat yesterday. And so i have to say: This love thing seems like the biggest scam of all times to me. And I have no respect for myself for falling for it and even now clinging on, allthough i know its irrational. Mona

Hey Blue, I have done a lot more thinking. The thing is, I'd like to believe that there is such a things as love. And before I met my boy I was cynical and thought people who believed in "The one" and love ever after were crazy romantics. And then I fell for the idea myself. God. We were so happy, so in love and so surprised at the power of this.... well it was something we really WANTED to feel. We both had been cynical and realistic before, and when our relationship started sp perfect, we more and more let go of the reality and started to dream together. I actually DID think he was the man of my life, my soul mate. And that's why I am so sad right now. Bit because I lost my soul mate (obviously he dumped me and is probably hitting on a girl right this second), but because I lost the DREAM I was dreaming for a year. And I feel like a fool now that I had let my rationality go, put everything aside and just believed in something I wanted to believe.... Well, back to the cynical, hollow me. Maybe I got it right, maybe I will be a hopeless romantic again one day, but for now I simply have enough. Relationships are not more than deals. And they can be win-win deals even. But once one sees no more gain, he will leave, regardless of how perfect it seemed and regardless of all the promises. And lets be honest, we are like this too. The "miracle" is constructed because we want it. But once we see the chips in the perfection we distance ourselves. Maybe I can't really love. But I though I did love this man... and now, 2 months later, I wouldn't take him back because I see it would be much work to put in. If there would be a miracle of love, and he would be the man of my life..... Well, then I wouldn't think about how much I get back, I would do it just like that, just for him. And if he would be the man of my life, and I would love him without expecting anything else (which for me would be the definition of ultimate love, to give just to give, not in order to get back), then I should just accept his decision that he is happier without me and support him fully in it. And I am not. Cause there is no such love. We give, as long as we benefit from giving somehow, it’s an investment. It’s always partly about us. Have you really ever loved so much that it didn't matter what you can gain out of this? I think I never did, and that makes me doubt that there is such love (except from movies). Do you know a couple who loves like that? I don't... I hope I am not too depressing and black. I think relationships can work, but not if you call them "perfect". You need to be very aware that you are making a deal. And you need to face reality. If someone wants to leave you, he will leave. And of course he will find reasons and rational explanations... well. My good friend Sabrina always says: When you want something, you find ways, and if you don't want something, you find reasons. And she is a very smart girl. I am depressing, but at least not whiney anymore... Mona

hey blueberry, you are absolutely right. And i hae been this person who does everything for herself and loves herself all my life. and when i met my boy, and let go of this egocentric lifestyle i liked it! I know i can go back to being a career oriented, great person, and all my friend say wow, look at mona, she is so happy. And i actually WAS happy. But now i think its vain, hollow happyness. And i am just doubting everything. Don't even take this serious....its all coming from the hreat right now, and the heart is BROKEN. Thanks for the cheering me up. i will be ok. But i will always know that there would have been more....than this happyness. Mona

Update: we started talking again after he had convinced me that two people who feel so close to one another should be naturally talking. So i talked about progress with getting along with my mom, really personal stuff and how he is doing. It hurt me that he is obvioulsy fast making friends and "has found people that are really nice and understanding - not as in a girlfriend, but nice and trustable". And i stayed rational and told him that it might take a while till be both can really open up again, but it will happen soon enough. And slowly the whole talk slipped into him telling me how much i screwed up and how I had to "pay for this one day". I stayed calm, but he was ranting. One night later he sent me a link to lesbian porn site. I am still so angry and thereforeeee wrote him: The main inconsistencies are in my opinion that you accuse me of undervaluing what we had, you at the same time accuse me of destroying something precious. If i didn't think it was precious and wanted to get out of it, you can't blame me. So when you tell me i destroyed something precious, you need to assume it was precious for me and we were made for each other. But when you say you can't come back, the obviously it isn't precious enough to you either. So we can either A) agree on the fact that it was precious and we are made for each other, which in consequence means we both have the responsibiity to work it out or B) agree that I didn't think you were the love of my life, then you can't hate me for wanting out of it as much as you don't think i am the love of your life and want out of it now Another major problem in the logical string is, that all debts are gone after i decided to cheat and thereforeeee end the relationship, but still i need to repent. In my opinion, the option of repenting was taken away by you by not giving me the chance to. After you decided against me, my debt must be gone. Just as your debt had been erased and your promises didn't count after i had decided against you. Debt exists within a relationship, and while it was on, i was ready to put my work in. Another illogical string is the part where you say i have guilt cause i destroyed something big, but for you it is not big enough to be worth preserving. So did I destroy something really that big then? Or are we both happy enough and getting over it? You say that I was able to move on so fast ("in a flash") is a sign that I never meant what i said, that i never loved you enough. You are moving on pretty well too Ravi, and either YOU never felt it in that case, or moving on is not a bad thing to do. YOU are not giving this relationship a second thought. So who is callous, who is not taking responsibility? Why would I feel any responsibility to someone who can dump me "in a flash". You say, i was callous enough to risk this relationship by cheating. I say you are callous enough to end this because of the cheating. So we both have put ourselves over this relationship. So either we both don't love each other much (then you can't blame me, and i can't blame you). Or these things happen even though we love each other dearly and sometimes people make mistakes and need to be forgiven. (and then the blame is on both of us) Another problem with your logic: You love me but can't trust me. A person you love, you obviouly believe in, and if you believe in me, in my good traits and all, then you need to trust that with your help and my effort I can be everything you want me to be. ANd you can be everything I want you to be for that matter. If you think i would not be able to forgive you your drinking and your "dark sides" as you say, you are wrong. I could, cause i love you and I believe in my hearts judgement. If I can love you, i can love all of you, the whole Ravi, who has dark sides, who is fighting himself, the whole person. That is what love is all about. And just because you can't imagine that i feel like this for you, doesn't mean i don't. I broke my comittment for a week, you broke your comittment for ever. As a reaction you say, but comittment is comittment, it seizes to be comittment when you break it. So you are not any better than me. Where I want to go with this? Its over, and no matter how many rational reasons you are trying to bring forward, it is not logical and your string of thinking is flawed. It is an emotional decision to break up with me. You don't feel it anymore, so please stop giving me the rational * * * * that makes you look good and me like the sinner. Repent and all this bullcrap. If you have the right to throw this away now and get over it, then i do too. Cause you obviously don't value it anymore either. So i have the right to leave now too. And i am not ready to moan for a relationship that obviously had no chance anyway. You lost hope in me, cause you cannot grasp that i have hope in you. if you would understand what made me cling on to something that seems lost, if you could understand the strenght of this feeling of love, if you could feel it too, then you would be able to hope. if you would love from the bottom of your heart, you would know how powerful this is, and that it is in fact enough to do whatever you want to do. What stays is your fear of throwing away something precious. How can it be so precious if you can't forgive me. And if its not precious, then why be so angry at me? Your staying friends theory is flawed too.... who would want a friend that is callous, selfish and can't be trusted. So don't send me links, don't tell me how you are, and don't bother me with your anger, i would have taken it in a relationship, in order to work things, i certainly don't take it after "all debts are gone". And I don't need a friend that sends me lesbian porn links. And tries to show me how hard i screwed up and how much he is hurting. If you really love me so much, you had your chance. If your love was so big, you could have acted on it. See, actions show more than words. So don't give me this * * * * about how much you are hurting, i was accomodating, i tried everything to make up for it and i looked deep inside of me before i made my offer to come back without any expectations, without making one claim for myself and with 100 percent understanding of what i have done and how much it would take to forgive me, competely giving myself up for you and you were not up for it. And don't tell me you couldn't. It was a really good offer, in fact nothing that anyone sane could reject. I said I will give you all benefits of being with me. Everything. Without wanting one thing back. And i meant it. For as long as it would have taken. It was not good enough for you, so you didn't WANT it. I cannot give you anything anymore, you deprived me of this right, so stop demanding. I know you have the feeling you are trapped, i trapped you and this is the only way out. But you are not even looking for any other way. And i tell you why: cause you don't want to. So be a man about it and finally accept that you do not want this relationship. And you have a right to this decision as much as i had. Maybe i did you a great favour with cheating, now finally you can enjoy all the things you are enjoying right now and for you now it is easy to break away from this waste of time, trapping relationship. If you don't feel guilty, i shouldn't. If its not worth the effort to you, why would I? I have screwed up. I was stupid and i was weak. But you were not strong either. So lets not keep each other from moving on. Thats the best thing we can do now, given that we obviously didn't feel about each other as had been suggested. All debts are gone thereforeeee. I don't owe you one thing, especially because you didn't want us to owe each other anything anymore. It always goes two ways. Mona So i though once again i can let go. But i can't. I haven't kept anything solid in 3 weeks, i lost 10 kgs, i can't get up anymore, can't sleep. I live at my moms place (I am 28!) and i have not payed one bill in 2 months (especially cause i hae no cent left) bills are bouncing, i owe rent, i can't get up, cause i am too dizzy. What the hell is up with me? Is that self pitty? I might aswell post this in the suicide section. There is nothing anymore. And my mom doesn't get it and asks every day when i will find a job and all. I am not looking!!! All i do is sleep 3 hours a nigth and try to keep in my belly what i force down there. You think i am melodramatic and immature. I am not this person. I just finished my masters. I was always a self sufficient person. I had nice friends and always a grip on my finances. I am career oriented and adventuous. Now i am nothing and nothing can get me up. I feel like * * * * and neither the man who wanted to marry me, nor my mom care, so why should i? Please tell me something, i don't know how to stop, everytime i think i got it, all of this comes back on my shoulders Mona

You give me so much hope. I am sometimes where you are now, but its not a stable feeling yet. Thinking rationally i know it doesn't make sense to get back together, too much has happened and especially the time since breakup was really not how i want to live my life and he certainly was not the partner I needed in that time. Well, emotionally i find a lot of excuses, like that it was me that cheated, that it was only his hurt that made him such an * * * and that he is in a very bad situation right now, and of course that we still love each other. So i am ociliating between those two extremes and hope i will someday reach the middle, where i can look back with a smile, and then look where i am right then and smile even more. You show me that its possible, thank you for that.

Hi, I am fighting with similar thoughts. If it means so much to them, if they love us so much, why can't they let go and forgive? My conclusion right now (and i change my opinion all the time these days) is, that you CHOOSE on or the other way. So now you ask, why would anybody choose such painful feelings. I think there are many reasons. One could be that they are just scared of selling themselves below market price, making a fool of themselves. Their friends might tell them, it s unacceptable that he is treating you that way, and she says ja, you are right, i need to walk away. Sad only that of course her friends don't know that you changed. Another reason for clinging on to those feelings is that they rationalize their behaviour in the way that they want to make sure not to make any bad choices by being blindly in love. thereforeeee they decide to look at all aspects of the relationship in order to keep it objective. - and that is a good thing. Sadly it can happen fast, that all of a sudden they focus on the downsides and disregard the good sides. They think being objective means looking at the bad stuff, but they forget the good sides over it. They claim they are rational individuals, that don't want to base everything on emotion, but they fail and can't even see that they are irrational, only in the other direction. In the end people make their choices according to what they think is giving them the best outcome. The factors they put in the equation, as well as the equation cannot be contested, thats theirs to decide. The problem is, I have the feeling that fear and pride are two bad ingredients to that equation, but its theirs to decide what they focus on.... So much from my unstructued mind.... hey, I just watched "Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind". i hope you have seen it, if not you need to do that as soon as possible. link removed I hope you are ok, for me it is up and down right now, but its slowly getting better, the more i understand...I make an effort to think as much about myself as you, and also read a lot. My favourite still: The art of Loving by Max Frisch. I think every loss bears a chance (and if its only loosing 18 pounds in 5 weeks, that's something), and we can really learn from this. If it will be for a new partner or the old one, that doesn't matter.... it's for me. Good night from Germany

Hi! I am getting a lot of help in the "getting back together" section, so I felt I should look around whether I can give back. And I think I have something for you... I was in a very similar situation 4 times so far. And I want to say something about sexual confusion too. I was equally confused about my sexuality as you are. Now I made peace with the idea that it is kind of strange and hypocritical how people talk about love in terms of gender. We talk about personality, character, charisma and other features when we talk about true love. People who don't see the soul of people but judge according to looks and other surface stuff are generally said to be superficial and hollow. Well, isn't it then also hollow to pretend that we fall in love according to a person's gender???? (In my opinion gender is really a very small part of the whole person). So I made peace with the fact that for me gender is not a deciding factor when picking my partners. So much about how I tried solving this confusion.... Sometimes I am still struggling, and so are people that are close to me, but this take makes me feel comfortable enough. Now to my 4 experiences with falling in love with a friend Girl A (met her 1991): We met at a Basketball training camp and went to high school together. I was 13, she was 14. We developed a friendship and got very close. All of a sudden I started feeling in love with her and all the side effects you mention. Being jealous of other friends reacting strange when she fancied a boy, being possessive, going out of my way for her, writing letters and all.... short: I was in love. And I slowly started to realize this. At the age of 16 I told her very carefully. This means I checked her take on same sex love first by raising the topic. Eventually I came out to her. I could see in her eyes that she was running the movie in her head of how many times we had cuddled, seen each other naked, and when she could have led me on unconsciously. Well after talks and all she was ok, but said she is not like me and could never do it. We went on a holiday together, and cuddled at night, it got a little too far for her taste. She freaked out and didn't talk to me for a year (!). It was hard for me. Very much so. When I was 17 I went into a restaurant with friends, and to my surprise she was then the manager there. She was nice to me and asked if I wanted to go back to her office and talk. She invited me home with her after her shift, said we have a lot to catch up on. So I was happy (mostly cause of the friendship, the love part was well suppressed by me). From that night on we were inseparable again and shortly after decided to move in together. We were really close friends. On weekends she would be away to take flying lessons and whenever I could I came with her. Then, one night on such a weekend, we both got drunk and she started hitting on me. I told her that if she doesn't want to risk it, she had to stop, but she said she is very ready to risk it. We had strange sex, very strange. It was good; don't get me wrong, but weird. You know someone so well, for 7 years and then u see a completely different side on them that was hidden. Nothing bad, but also strange. She moved out of our apartment after that. I was really hurt, but for her it was easier with the flying lessons. She met a guy, got with him. I felt even worse, but what did I expect? We still met and hung out, less than before though and eventually I moved to another city. We had low contact in that time. After a year, she decided to move to the same city (she wanted to study there and had nothing to do with me). It was fun to hang out again, but seeing her with yet another boyfriend was still weird for me. Eventually they broke up. She was sleeping at my place a lot after that. And it happened again. But this time, my love for her was gone; it was fun, but nothing more than that. Ever since nothing has changed, we are incredibly good friends. And I am happy with that. Girl B (started 1998) I met another girl when I was 20, Girl B. She was gorgeous, man so beautiful. We started to hang out. Had a lot of fun. I would take an earlier train everyday just to meet her. We spent a lot of time together. I fell in love very fast and intense. After 1 year I confessed my love, after I had gotten so jealous when she met a guy and dated him. She was understanding and all, but she told me she would never consider it. I was so down, I can't even tell you. How can she have not seen the signs? She loved spending time with me, how can she not feel how I felt? It took me a while till I stopped crying. Despite what she had said, she continued cuddle with me, and loved it when I touched her. So it became a habit that we had evenings in bed, just touching each other (it was always at the border of still being platonic, but didn't cross the line). I loved those evenings. Eventually I moved to another town. We kept calling each other and I kept visiting for weekends. Over Christmas break we went snowboarding together and again felt this attraction. (Even she had admitted by that time that she felt something weird too, unexplainable, but never the less, it was there). On that snowboarding trip we were standing outside in the cold and our faces were so close and I thought to myself " what the hell, I will try to get her tonight, if it works, fine, if it doesn't I won't ever try again and give up." So I kissed her, very cautiously. And she kissed me back!!!! I cannot even tell you how happy I was. We went back in, sat some minutes with other friends and went to bed soon after. It was one of the best nights in my life. We did it all night long. Next day we openly snuggled in the car on the way to the slope, and I was happy. Sure I was scared she would move away from me now and couldn't handle it, sure I was scared that I wouldn't be able to deal with it that for her it was a one time thing and she can't consider me. But it was all right. We stayed friends, sometimes joked about it even. Then I got with Girl C. After that was over, much later A guy got her (Girl B) pregnant and left her shortly after that, so I helped her out. I stayed with her when the baby was born. It felt like a little family and she started calling me the kids "daddy" with a wink. I had to soon leave again for studying, but it was a nice time. We love each other very much, even had sex once more, but its now more a deep and conscious relationship, very caring, but also very free, and platonic. Girl C (started 2002) I met her in Bangkok. She was a colleague and we would stay there for the same period, 6 months. She was a beautiful woman, adorable, sporty, and smart. I fell in love with her immediately, I knew by now how it feels. We started getting very attached, very close, we worked together well. On a trip back from a rip to the beach south I started touching her a little while we were on the dark night bus. We reached Bangkok late at night and hurried to get home, clearly with one intention.... We had a great night. After that she stated that this was new for her and she needed to think, and I lied to her by telling her I had never felt this way before and it was as new to me. Hmmmm, I couldn't tell her the truth, I was scared she would hate me for not saying it before. Well, we somehow never clarified what was going on. She was on business trips all the time and asked me to come over for weekends, so I flew to her on a weekend. She picked me up at the airport, went for dinner with me, took me home (the bed had been mad with a lot of effort) and started to undress me saying she had missed me like crazy. Whow, what a feeling....We went on trips, had a great time, developed like a relationship, made plans for her to move to where I lived..... It was great. We also went on a holiday at the end of our stay in Bangkok. There we had a fight out of nowhere. She told me she can't do that, she doesn't even know how to tell her friends, she can't handle dating a woman and so on. I was crushed. The pain I can't even tell you. I sat down in a train for 20 hours to get back to my apartment, I remember none of these 14 hours, I didn't even cry I think, I was not enough to cry. She came by my apartment to get some things later and then she left for Germany. Ever since there was not much contact, some emails back and forth, nothing much. I look at her pics and I have no bad feelings anymore. Great woman and I had a great time with her. In fact I just wrote her to check on her... great girl, really. Girl D (started 2004) Gird D was different, she wasn't a friend. After having suffered so much from being in love with girls who were straight, I figured I had to date girls that were like me in order to not get hurt…. This girl studied with me, and she stated she was bisexual… also she was good looking. I have to say now that I wasn't very attracted to her before I knew about her orientation, but I was also not really on the lookout at that time. What prevented me more was that she had a boyfriend. So I thought about it and then disregarded it again. Well, the story would end here, if she would have done the same….She sneaked into my room one day while we did this semester in South Africa and stayed in the dorm. She said she only wanted to cuddle; she had trouble with her boy. So we cuddled and after a while we started making out. We had great sex that night (she was experienced and I had never had anyone that had done it with a girl before basically). Next day she stated that her boy had huge problems with her bisexuality and she had had this little adventure with me to say good bye to girls for ever. I was having none of it! I liked the sex, we were in South Africa for 4 months together, and I wanted to have fun. So I sneaked into her room more and more frequently, seduced her had a great time. Her boy broke up with her, and she never considered me, even despite that. She said she was not ready for a relationship with a girl, just fun. She wouldn't want to have her family know and all that, she simply didn't want the trouble. So I was a little hurt. After South Africa we had a break from the studies and we called each other frequently. She even said she was considering us, she missed me and all. So I gained hopes and let go of whatever was holding me back, I fell in love with her. After a month we went to India (its all part of a crazy master's program, so don't get confused) when I saw her standing there in India, I had just arrived and I was still jet lagged, it was magic. Our eyes met and the whole chemistry was there. Whow. We moved into the same dorm. Started platonic, but soon fell back into old patterns. I confessed my love to her, said I wanted to be with her, but she tried to avoid the topic. On the other hand she was as much all over me as I was all over her. After a couple of months she started dating a guy… and I was so hurt. I slept in front of her door crying, I went nuts. I got over her after a couple of weeks, I mean not completely, but I was back to functioning. On Valentines Day I went to buy her flowers, I don't know to date why I did that, and at the flower shop I met the man of my dreams. I was very happy in this relationship and we wanted to get married, but after a great year, I now cheated on him with girl D. He says I did it because when I met him I was not over her and always subconsciously treated him as second choice, he might be right. I broke all ties with Girl D immediately, but it couldn't be saved…. I am devastated and feel worse than about the breakups with Girls A, B, C, and D added. (This is my post about the breakup, if you are interested)…. After years, Girl B considered that she might have been happy with me, and recently she said she would move in with me. Girl D was devastated when I left and she regretted not having tried with me. That shows that – in retrospect – when they have dealt with issues, - people are able to look beyond all the societal stuff and actually are able to look at how much happiness they could have gained. But well, that doesn't help you now. Now let's analyze all this: All of the girls I fell in love with eventually gave it a try sexually, but never fully committed to me. Even the bisexual girl didn't have the guts. Honestly, even I wouldn't know if I would commit to a girl fully, it does have disadvantages, societal, parents-wise and children-wise. That is the trouble with us bisexuals (I assume that's what you are, but I am myself not happy with the labels). If we find a man that is equally good, we would leave any girl for him. Just because it is so much easier. I can very well understand what you feel right now. You might even think you love her so much it can be enough for both of you. I can relate to the feeling of wanting to be with someone all the time, wanting to touch someone so badly, want them to share your feelings. You must think life is completely unfair. I know the feeling. What you have to consider though is, that your friend is probably not ready for this. You would have to be so much better than any man in order for her to consider you. And for her it seems completely impossible to even think that she might be attracted to you. She doesn't even consider it. (To really find out about that you would have to confront her with your feelings and then give her a lot of time to think about whether this is an option, and I am talking years here…) You are saying that your love is affecting your friendship. That means that you have to either move away from it (and she will want an explanation for that most likely), or that you need to be incredibly strong and let her go. This will be a hard thing to do, but you can grow with this task. The point is, all the fighting won't help if she is not interested. In your place, I would tell her how I feel, let her decide what she wants to do with that, and then support her in any way. If it's too much for her and she wants distance, give it to her if she asks you to stay friends, be a friend. Don't expect anything else than she can offer, but stick to her decision, completely, even if she doesn't. Don't get angry at her, she doesn't do it against you. From the moment she has made a decision how to handle things, you are the one in control and making sure you keep the relationship at exactly the level she said she wanted. This is incredibly hard. But you love her. You will get an incredibly strong person coming out of this. And this way you can keep your self-respect and your integrity. If you can't tell her, get away from her. Someone you can't share things like this with can't be a friend in the long run. Furthermore you are treating her bad by keeping this secret. It really concerns her, so she should know. She has a right to decide for herself. Of course there is a risk in telling her, but secretly admiring her and pretending you are just a friend will at some point makes YOU feel bad. And it will cost you a lot of your self-esteem. Whenever I told my friends, I never got bad feedback. Of course they were surprised, had to think about it first, but reactions were never bad. All of them were more caring afterwards, asked themselves if they were leading me on for example. It feels so refreshing when it's finally out. And from then on, your friend will be aware and also responsible for her action towards you. This was a long long answer, I am sorry, it just all had to come out. I know how much you are hurting Mona

Hi all, i have been reading around here for a week now, and its amazing how much it got me thinking. Thank you all very much for supporting me in this hard time. Now I think I am ready to post something myself. I have done a lot of thinking, and I have many open questions.... This post has three parts. First I give a summary of what happened with me and my love, second I will deal with the concept of NC and possible outcomes in my opinion. Whoever is not interested in a sad story and another case study can just skip to part two, the more theoretical part. Part three is a summary of the things that I would be glad to get figured out. The points that i am still struggling with and which I can't answer myself. Part 1: Let me give you a very short outline of the mess I am in. Met a wonderful man in India while studying there, fell deeply in love, had a wonderful, exciting relationship for a while. I never missed anything with him and he had everything I wanted and he was enchanted too. Lots of love, lots of good conversation and the feeling of having found a soul mate. I had to leave for Germany then after the semester, but came back to him after 3 weeks of missing each other crazy. From then on lived together happily for a while, went on holidays to meet my parents on a Thailand trip, everything gorgeous. Hardly fought, and if we did, we talked until we reached common ground and understanding. Met his family, liked them lots and announced our wedding plans. So far so good. Eventually I had to go back to Germany to finish my master's. While being apart we talked a lot on MSN, texted, wrote letters and called each other 3-5 times a week. We always felt we were fully part of each other's life. Then I did something stupid. I cheated on him, with a girl. You need an explanation here I guess: I had always had affairs with girls more or less frequently in the past. We had talked about this and he said it’s something he needs to put more thought in, but he is generally not ok with me cheating, regardless of whether it’s a boy or girl. This girl I had cheated on him with was a 1 year long affair without any intention of making it a relationship. She was doing my master's with me, so she was around, and it somehow happened. In retrospect I think I did it because I was freaked out about how much I loved the guy and I was scared that it wouldn't work and I was left with nothing. I have the feeling I have issues with abandonment and although everything was perfect between us, I had the fear he would leave me. So I was trying to detach a little, to protect myself. I know that this is less that rational, but I think that it is characteristic for me. I am a very freedom loving person and very self-sufficient, and the sudden close attachment to someone just freaked me out. This was the first relationship I was fully into and actually completely let go, so I guess I just couldn't handle the fact that I let someone get so close. I told him about it. Felt so guilty. He took 2 days to decide what he wanted to do with it, read a lot on bisexuality, asked me questions and talked to me in a very structured way. Then he decided to forgive and work through. He said he doesn’t want to tell me that if it happens again he would not forgive me again, because he doesn't want to limit himself to one option, but he also said that he would most likely leave me in case I did it again. He had gotten really hurt, I could see that, but he never mentioned it to me again, never blamed me for it. He came to visit me then. It was not the best time; I was sitting on my master's thesis 24/7, hardly had time and was stressed on top. We knew it was not the best time, but wanted to see each other. After a while he got depressed, I was giving him little attention, he had nothing to do. In the end I managed to finish the thesis and spend a good week with him, traveled places and had a good time. After 6 weeks he left. Sobby goodbye, lots of love. He got confirmation that he was accepted in Germany for a master's course. So our long distance problem seemed solved for some time. While he was back in India preparing to come to Germany, I did it again. You must think I am crazy, and I think so too. Not only did I sleep with her for a solid week, I also stayed over night, wrote loving emails and had a full blown affair...What had gotten into me? During this time I didn't feel less love for my boy, not at all. I shoved the fact that he would be so hurt away. I even tried raising the topic again on MSN, but he got pissed and said I can't talk about this girl to him at all, it’s something I need to figure out by myself. I felt so tempted with this girl, she gave me so much love, she is sweet and all and I don't have to give her any commitment in exchange. It went on for a week. Then I went to the airport to get my boy. It was his birthday when we arrived at my place and we had a party and I felt so weird and guilty. I told him that night what had happened. It sounded callous when I said it, and I know it sounds callous to you too right now. I sound like I am the most unloving woman out there. But I love him more than anything. I know that he is the love of my life and that we ARE made for each other. You might think now that I can’t complain, after all it was me who put it at risk, but please consider that I haven’t been in a situation like this one before. I have never loved like this and never let anyone close like this. I crashed under the responsibility that he is moving to another continent for me, dedicating his life to me. I merely couldn’t handle so much love. I myself can't grasp what I have done. Don’t judge me too hard, be gentle. After that I moved out, I accepted that I had done tremendously wrong and needed to go. He read all my mails to her and of course it was more pain than one person can take. Despite that, some days later he asked me to work on it together. From then on, he made the attempt to deal with it, but he got worse and worse. Started drinking, kept himself busy and whenever he got loving towards me, he regretted it minutes later and got angry. The drinking got worse and he treated me bad sometimes. Stopped caring for me, went forth and back. I took it for 4 weeks, as I felt I deserved it and understood his pain. After a while I couldn't do that anymore. I told him it’s over. At this point I didn't see a chance that he could ever forgive me and I saw that it’s eating him up. He also had just started his Master's and had a lot of new friends and was busy with going out and studying. We had a very loving goodbye, sobby, told each other we loved each other and talked for hours at night. Then I left for my parents place. The following weeks we had again forth and back conversations, I told him I wanted to come back to him, realized how stupid I have been, and that I think with so much love we must be able to work through. He said he missed me, so I went back to visit for a week. The week was wonderful when we were alone, we slept together, had great talk and a lot of fun. We didn't talk about the future, but had a good time. We were in love. Whenever we were around his friends though, he was cold, didn't give me attention. He had told many people about what happened, and I think he felt like a fool for still loving me so much. He is a very proud man and the fact that he is suffering so much without me, convinces him even more that he wants to go back to his self –sufficient life he had before me. He is himself scared by how much he loves me and how much it affects him that I am not there. And that makes him feel even stronger about being alone. He says that love is not enough, if it was enough I wouldn’t have done what I have done. After the week I left. Since then (3 weeks) we went forth and back again. I am trying to convince him we can do it, he doesn't know how to solve the practicalities. He says too much has happened. He is certainly not happy, but he would also not be happy with me, since he would feel like a fool to just take me back and the trust is gone. The only thing that speaks for me is Love, but that feeling can’t be trusted. So I figured I should let him go. I told him that what I have done cannot be expected to be forgiven. He can go and heal. Unfortunately we then started talking again. Same pattern. I even called him and cried. At the time he was with a friend and was very unreceptive and so I hung up, was very hurt and decided to go to NC, without telling him. Since then, (2 days) he tried to find out why I blocked him. I also had to answer a paperwork question, so technically there was contact. Then he wrote me yesterday that he is aware I am pissed and that he has very little time right now, but that it’s important for him to talk about our issues for him and that this time he will make more of an effort. I answered that there is no new info between us, so talking doesn't change anything now and that we can have the learning experience feedback round of our relationship when we are less busy and more objective. That’s it so far Part two: Here are my thoughts: NC is a good way of moving on. While we were still talking, I was running in circles, had hope, felt desperate and interpreted everything he said according to my current mood. It was dynamic and I got hurt and tried to hold on. The pain I felt was connecting me to him, so I didn't want to let go. I also felt that I owed it this relationship to fight. Also letting go from it would have meant that he can let go as easy, and that scared me, so I held on. I also felt that my ex was partly feeling guilt for not trying harder with me, and talking to me was somehow a way for him to be less guilty, after all he was still taking care of me and comforting me (even if i got more hurt). It was his way of making sure he can't be blamed for not trying. So now he has to deall wtih that guilt and can get over it. The same counts for me, I felt les guilty about what i have done, since i was trying to make up for it by talking and figuring out what went wrong. But as my Ex sais, thats like shooting someone and after that taking him to the hospital and thinking that would make up for it. Since NC I feel better, I am not waiting for him to contact me, I can start getting my head around the fact that it might be really over. What I am thinking now is that NC is very good to get over a breakup, but maybe not the best thing to get someone back. The attention you trigger by NC is more curiosity, being abandoned, fear to lose the other and hurt pride, but not love. It shifts the dependency from you to your partner. Love is different. Maybe it can work if your partner is not aware that this is a simple game, but mine isn't stupid. So you basically trick the other one back to you. What comes in here as a thought is Major's post a long time ago (yes, i have read a lot in here). Its the "feeding the bird" theory: . My problem here is, that even if you make the bird dependent on you, eventually the bird will again fly and find new sources, and then he will feel even more stupid that he thought you are the only source of food.... It can work, I guess, but it’s a big risk. On the other hand I don't really see alternatives... because being a victim isn't very attractive. And fighting for a relationship is a good thing at first, but losing yourself can't be the solution. So I am completely with you on the NC. Great way of getting over and keeping control and the head up. But I don't have big hopes on the getting back together part. We will see. For now I do it merely for myself. I miss my love, but not as much as the confident and proud ME. Part 3: There are a lot of posts in this Forum by people who do NC more or less successfully in terms of making themselves feel better. Are there also any stories where the NC eventually helped to get back together to a stable, trusting relationship with real forgiveness? I assume that those people who are back together might invest their time in their relationship now rather than posting threats in a forum for heart-broken individuals, but maybe someone finds the time to give me some hope. Also I would like to hear your take on the outcomes that can be expected from NC, even if you are still in the process and haven’t reached your goal yet. Also very welcome are refllections on my individual case. You might feel that I have less of a chance to get back together, because I was the one who ended this relationship, or because he is not led by emotions but by practicalities. Or you might think I have more of a chance, since he is struggling with a "real" problem, not general undecisiveness. Please tell me what you think. I am very excited to hear you opinions and thoughts Thank you very much! Mona

Hi, nice questions, let me answer 1) For instance, did you beg, cry, promise to change etc?? What was your ex'es reaction? all of the above.... I had cheated on him, he tried to forgive but couldn't and behaved like an * * * for 1 month, so i needed to leave him and move out. Ever since he is undecided, leaves me hanging. Practicalities are bad right now, he is leaving the country soon, is very busy and still very angry and hurt. I love him, and he loves me. A lot has happened though. So of course i cried, begged, promised to change, even promised to take his anger and drinking for as long as he needed me too. Then i felt stupid and said i am sure we can work this out without anyone making a fool of themseves. So i said sorry for begging and making him feel he is responsible for my pain (after all it started with me cheating). he liked that, but he is still not sure what he wants. 2) Whats different in your life since No Contact? Has there been any progress I feel so much better! today i even went out to see an old friend and i sang loud in my car. I am not waiting for any sign, and can relax. Today i even ate and kept it! So progress on my part, yes. Whether NC really works for saving a relationship is a good question. I think after all its a game, and in love there should be no games necessary. He tried to find out why i am not talking to him, why i blocked him, but that might be curiosity too. Also i think as long as we are talking he feels less guilty, after all he can tell himself that he is still supporting me and taking care of me. The thing is, his new attention is definitely a REACTION to NC, maybe pride, maybe fear, but love is neither pride nor fear, so even if people show more interest in NC, doesn't really mean they get more interested in trying again. 3) Has there been ANY reaction on your ex'es part? Be it..seeing you as a different or changed person..or pursuing you? Tried to find out why, said he can see that i am pissed and he thinks talking to me is important (for him obviously, so i really guess it just makes him feel better). And that this time he will make more effort bla bla... I wrote him back, cause i had just vut him off without telling him before, so i figured he deserved an answer...: Hi, much has been said, too much in fact. Further discussions cannot add any new info, or bring new results and it actually prevents us from moving on now. We can have the learning-experience-feedback-round when we are both less busy and more objective, its not urgent. till then, Mona 4) How many times did you break NC before you became strong and got it right? I was trying half-assed a week ago, but he managed to provoke me so much that i had to tell him he is full of ****. Back then i pursued NC with the aim of making him come back, i wanted to force him to think about me, deprive him of the posibility to tell me what is bothering him, how his day was and stuff, so he can feel that he "needs" me. Now i am pretty serious about it, this time will work, cause i am doing it for ME, and my sanity. I am telling you, I miss this guy, but i miss myself more. And i was not the woman i want to be when i was running after him. I know you might think that i ought to, cause it was me who cheated after all, but he took it too far, really. And some fighting was ok, but giving myself up, no, thats too much. And he didn't fall in love with a person who has no respect for herself, so no point in making myself so small. 5) How long have you been in STRICT NO so far? technically i started 48 hours ago, not much, i know. I called him crying and he was with some friends being very rejecting to my feelings. I hung up, blocked hi from all the mesengers and decided to start over with my life. then he wrote me several mails about "organizational" stuff, one i even had to answer. we lived together, so there are things we need to still figure out, that makes it hard... and then he wrote the mail above this morning, and i answered 10 hours later. So 48 hours since decision, and i responded to him twice, but very formal. Sorry, i am not a native speaker, so please don't mind bad english... And remember: The things u are meant to have, you shouldn't have to fight for, the things you aren't meant to have, the hardest fighting won't help (Thai saying) keep your head up, loosing someone special feels like loosing oneself, but from mere statistics, there are many others out there for you, even if that feels like a joke to you right now and even if you think you will never be up for that now. best of luck! Mona