Leigh

Thanks for the advice guys. I was warm and friendly most of the night with him. He was the same with me. He told me that I looked really good...gave me a beer and we stepped outside alone together. When we had a moment alone I asked him if he was happy. He told me yes. I told him that I was sorry for leaving. He said he didn't know what to say about that. Throughout the night we were standing near each other and smiling at each other... I got a couple of cell phone calls and on the second one he said: "Popular girl tonight..." I could tell he was bothered...not knowing who would be calling me so often on a Friday night. He told me about how things in his life were going...things that only I knew about... asked me how my counselling was going... asked me if I was happy and I said "Sometimes..." This man knows me very well...I didn't want to play games with him and act like my life was rosy without him. He told me about how his business was going... I told him about my tentative plans to move to Spain... (after telling him I was sorry that I had left I felt that his inaction on commenting on that was a safe bet that he didn't want me to come back.) He also looked pained to tell me he was happy now as it looked like he didn't want to hurt me by telling me this fact. As the night progressed he seemed to become more aloof with me... or maybe just more uncomfortable as the drinking progressed, I'm not sure. Regardless, the vibe changed. His father phoned him on his cell so he invited him over as well. When his dad arrived i spoke with him for a little bit, then walked away from the party for a minute to make a call on the cell phone. I was standing near the ex's father's car at the time, and they had decided to leave, so they walked towards me, I got off the phone, and as D passed me I asked if I could talk to him for a second. His father proceeded to get into the car. I asked D if we could have a coffee sometime before he leaves...D said, No, Leigh. I don't know if it was the drinking that got to me (I wasn't drunk, just lightheaded) but I lowered my guard and said "Please, D" He opened the car door and said "No, Leigh, I'm sorry, please..." and got into the car. I stood there, alone in the driveway with the headlights of their car blaring in my eyes. I didn't cry, I couldn't move. As they backed out I could see that Aaron was sunk into the seat, and looking down. He couldn't even look at me. I turned around and walked back to the bonfire... I left about 20 minutes later and cried all the way home. I guess I have my closure. He won't even meet me for coffee...but from our visit last night I'm absolutely sure that the feelings are still there. It was like he'd saved up a million stories that he'd wanted to share with me...we talked together for hours. For whatever reason, he does not want this relationship to have another chance... and now I have to respect that. I will not be contacting him again... I feel like I lost all dignity last night and up until asking for coffee I had been my old self again, confident, funny, and genuinely having a good time. So much of the night was made up of us exchanging knowing glances...smiling at each other like we used to. For at least 5 hours, I got to experience that again and for that I'm grateful...even if it means today I have to accept that I have to let him go now. The grieving is starting all over again...I hope I'm strong enough to get through it...it's even harder when you feel like you've lowered yourself...begged... but I have no regrets because if I hadn't tried I may have always wondered... Now I know I've done all I can. I was honest with him. There is no question that he knows that I love him still. I have to move on, and hope that his last memories of me are something more special than the sad little girl standing rejected alone in the driveway. Thanks for everyone's support. L.

Of course I would like to be able to get some closure as the breakup happened very quickly and we've barely had any contact since. I do not intend on breaching this tonight, of course. I would love to be able to reconcile, but I realize that this is most likely not an option given his odd behaviour since the break up (ie: initiating talking with my father on IM, yet being cold with me in my conversations). He has been home for 4 days and has not called me despite the fact that all of my furniture still sits in his apartment in California. I find that kind of rude...and that's not him...so I question his avoidance of me when I've done nothing but respect his decision to break up and have still behaved in a friendly manner towards him.

Hi everyone, Many of you already know my story (1.5 years living together - break up 2 months ago)... the ex is now in my hometown (I moved here after the break up from the US) and tonight a mutual friend of ours is having a bonfire. The ex has been informed that I will be there and is still going...(I initiated leaving the relationship, but the ex forced the break to a break up). I need help... I'm afraid of how aloof and cold he'll behave towards me. I need some serious pointers asap as I'm leaving in the hour. Thanks. L.

Hi Mona, You already know my thoughts on your IM convo... As for the turning cold experience, I truly hope that it lasts. It's definitely been a rollercoaster. I think sometimes you can only take so much pain and hurt and regret... you cry for so many days that the heart looks for a reason to find relief. The relief often comes in coldness, anger, or numbness... It's your body's way of helping you heal. You're not cold or calculating for feeling this way. There is definitely nothing wrong with you either, or your capacity to love. I feel you have just reached another level of the healing phase. Keep going hun... L.

Personal progress... Job search abroad continues...counselling today... I'm visiting friends and getting out of the house... and have even managed to gain a couple of freelance jobs from my old contacts in the Caribbean... so definitely still trying to rebuild my life. Still hurts, but I'm doing my best to come out of this better than ever.

NC for almost 2 weeks now... other than the indirect contact the ex seems to be having with me through my father on IM. I found out another small tidbit of something that the ex said when my parents were at my old apartment picking a few things up July 4th weekend... The ex apparently mentioned how I could have moved back in there even though we weren't together until I had my own job and new place arranged... Of course, he never said this to me after the break up, but, then again, we have not spoken about "us" since the very first week that the relationship ended... maybe he was just saying it to alleviate his guilt. Again, my parents mentioned how the ex had commented on being away from his computer and returning to find my IM message that basically relayed that I was a bit hurt and that I was cutting contact - but they had never told me until just now that he was angry at me for it... I don't really understand why that should make him angry - I was obviously hurting when I wrote it, so it wasn't like I'd done it vindictively. I'm also finding myself analysing the timing of his comments this week: - last Saturday he learns that I'm not returning to pack my own things in the apartment and that the furniture will be moved out by my family in October (all new news to him) - The ex mentions how "he at least thought I'd be back to pack my things at some point" - Monday he IMs my father to see if I've started working here yet - to which my father responds.. maybe next week - Wednesday the ex gives a semi-offer of contract work for me through their biz I guess the NC, but LC with my father, is getting to me because I'm starting to wonder if the timing of the offer of work knowing that in a week I might be tied into employment here was possibly in an attempt to show me that there was still a chance to work with them (the ex and his biz partner) before I take this new position. I'm moving on with my life still, don't worry, just trying to figure out what his motives could be right now...if anything. He will also be here (our hometown) in another week and a half or so for three weeks, and I'm wondering if his mention of being unable to find a graphic designer (ie: my job) was a way for me to initiate contact before he comes home so that we might be able to see one another while he's here. I feel like I'm getting mixed signals because of the contact with my father - but I guess the only signal I need to worry about is that IF he still loves me, his pride is still most important as he refuses to initiate contact with me...but has no problem initiating with my father on almost a daily basis. Any thoughts, as always, would be greatly appreciated. L.

Funny as this sounds, I went to see a psychic a couple of weeks ago. She told me my old job would be coming back to me but not to take it because the next one I find will come with a move far away and steady work and I'll be very happy. So no, I'm not taking him up on this offer. I do not want any ties to that biz anymore - maybe someday I will freelance on the side of another job for extra cash, but right now I'm not using work to keep in touch with D. Yes, and the eye to eye part MAY come in a week or so when he's home. I'm not sure if he's going to contact me... sometimes I think that the recent frequency of chats with my father and the most recent attempt to get me to contact him may be a way of "feeling me out" before he comes home. I think he wants us to be in communication before he gets here... if that were the case, we'd definitely be seeing one another when he's here - but I really don't know if I want to see him anymore. I don't want him to use it as just another opportunity to show me how happy he is without me... that he's better since the break up... that he doesn't care anymore. Perhaps... I've heard this same explanation has been given to a couple of our friends... he refuses to face the issue that I moved to another country on his word that the work would be steady and as a result of the discrepancy, I STILL suffer financially to this day.. Yes, I wanted to leave, but the last day I tried to talk to him about it and he forced me out - I remember him coldly asking me if I "needed any gas money" for my drive to San Fran. For D, career is number one. I can't even imagine how he would have reacted had I broken the same promises regarding work for him. I can absolutely guarantee he would have left me and NEVER would have wanted to reconcile. That is the double standard here. It was okay for me to spend my savings on moving all of my furniture down to LA (that he STILL USES NOW)... and THEN have no work to replenish my account... again, it wasn't about money for me (even though it sounds that way).. it was the fact that he never validated that I had a right to be sad that the work had fallen through... I remember the day that I felt the worst about the situation... I put a $20 bill in my nephew's bday card to be mailed home to Canada and D said "Can you really afford to be putting that in there?" Meanwhile, D was spending money on expensive dinners with his biz partner and going out more often... yes it's HIS money, but the $20 was mine and I felt so low that he was now in a position to make me feel guilty for how I spent my own money. I never splurged on anything for myself in LA, (except for groceries and splitting bills when we went out to eat together)... I have always been pretty thrifty with my funds and D knew this. So guilting me for the money in my nephew's card? It made me feel pretty small. Especially since my entire life I've always had my own place, car, looked after ALL of my own bills, went dutch every meal with the ex... I didn't deserve to be treated like someone who was being irresponsible or taking advantage.... I have never been that girl, and that's why it hurt. Perhaps... part of me feels like he's only wanting this vision quest so that he can say that he did one, but will not actually do the work that is needed to face himself and how he has impacted others in his life (another major aspect of the process is dealing with the hurts that you've caused others and taking responsibility)... I hope I'm wrong about this. I hope he does take it seriously because it can really be life altering when done correctly.

That IS a great story...thanks for sharing.

Hi everyone, From the number of views I see on this thread I know there are a few "lurkers" out there... Backinlife and nottoogreen have offered up some great advice to me on this most recent contact with my father, for which I am very grateful... in fact, I don't know what I would have done without their advice over the past month or so. That being said, I'm really in need of as many opinions as I can get...Do any lurkers have any thoughts on the content of the contact my ex is having with my father? My thoughts or gut on the issue are clearly clouded by emotion, so I could really benefit from as many views on this as possible... Advice is always appreciated, especially since I'm finding it difficult to find threads on anyone else who's ex is having such frequent contact with their family immediately after the break up. Again, they were NOT close when we were dating... so I find it hard to believe that this is just a matter of keeping up relations... the relations are now being created for the first time... Again, this forum's words are a godsend to me right now... thoughts?

Unfortunately, no. My father has inclinations that D may be just be dangling me a bit until he makes up his mind what he really wants (now that some time has passed and he may be beginning to second guess what's happened)... He has ideas, but no real knowledge of what D is doing right now. He just feels that D's mind may be set on following through on his initial decision (the breakup) but that, despite that, he is unwilling to show that he is done with us through his actions... (cutting ties with everyone in my family, taking down my decorations in the apartment... getting rid of my things... etc.)

Yes, I feel he is definitely implying that. I feel like if he REALLY needs my help, though... he should have the guts to contact me directly...not continue to try to "bait" me into contacting him... again, I feel this is all about who's winning and losing and I'm not up for that. I do not wish to contact him because I am protecting myself from being hurt again... as he knows that I am not a vindictive person, he really has no reason not to contact me, except for the fact that he doesn't wish to look like he's bowing down to my NC. No, I do not want to work with them again. He knew this when I left, so I must again question why he is using this as a window of opportunity for us to have contact when it was such a sore spot for us in the relationship.. That's why I feel that MAYBE he is really willing to use any excuse possible for us to reinitiate contact. This indirect offer of work may be a last resort tactic to get me to speak to him. I don't need work so badly that I'm willing to speak to him again on those terms. My father feels that it was a somewhat weak attempt to get me to initiate contact with him again. Who knows?

It is very strange that he is seeking out contact with my father on such a regular basis. I am trying not to find hope in that, but at the same time, they were not that close when we were together, so I'm very confused by the level of communication they are having now. I somehow feel that he may be trying to open a door for me to have a reason to contact him... that I might hear this and send an email offering my services. He is in contact with many other people in his line of work that know graphic designers...he also knows that relaying this to my father lets me know that he misses me, if only at a superficial level of having me to work with. As I said, he also knew that there was a risk that saying this would allow me to contact him and reestablish communication in a way that wouldn't force me to swallow my pride and admit that I wanted to talk to him. (ie: I ONLY contacted him because of work..) If he doesn't want to talk to me, then why give me ANY excuse to get in touch? I feel that he must believe that that is what I need to speak with him again... a reason. That maybe I'm not contacting him because I can't... not because I don't want to. Now that I'm not taking up this opportunity, he knows that I am not interested in grasping at just ANY reason to talk with him. That I am choosing not to talk with him because he has hurt me and I'm really trying to move on. Yup. Now that he knows the furniture will not be an excuse for me to contact him (because my family is dealing with it) he may be looking for another reason for us to establish contact. This is really the only one he has left other than dropping the pride act and contacting me without a reason - except to admit that he WANTS to talk to me... He is still unwilling to do this... still trying to put the ball in my court, even though it's CLEARLY still in his. My father has kept communication with D, even though he knows how much he's hurt me, because he feels that some communication (even through my family) is better than us cutting ties completely. The fact that D is reaching out this way, well, my father doesn't want to begrudge him the one avenue he seems to be trying to take to communicate indirectly with me. I think it DOES give him comfort to speak with someone who is so close to me. I, on the other hand, would feel very funny having daily contact with D's father. I would feel like that was sending a strong message to D that I was trying to speak with him somehow. That's just me, though. I don't know just how he expects me to take this. It could be a way of reducing his guilt, but then I think the easiest way for him to run from guilt would be to cut all ties completely and stop having daily reminders of me by speaking with my father. He is also surrounded by a home that I created right now. My father isn't giving advice on our situation. He is giving D advice on life in general. How to go about doing the vision quest...what to expect... how to focus on understanding himself and his motivations/fears while he goes on that journey. Part of me thinks that D is only speaking with my father because he is genuinely interested in pursuing this spiritual side and has nobody else to speak with about it... the other part of me says, if he's really trying to end things with me and move on.. can't all of this talk wait a few months until there is NO chance that I will get the wrong idea by him seeking contact with my family? Again, I am very confused. They do not discuss the relationship. D asked about me on Monday, wanted to know if I was working here yet. And then, the graphic designer comment came on Tuesday. Up until this week D did not mention me (directly or indirectly) at all. My father and D did speak about the relationship immediately after we'd broken up... I was on my way from LA to San Fran and they were speaking on MSN. My father tried to arrange a pickup for my things (furniture etc.) for a month from that time and D said "Hold off on that for now.." They again discussed the relationship a few days after that where D told my dad that he had loved me very much and still did, but that he felt he had given 150% and lines had been crossed... that was over 6 weeks ago now. I'm not sure if he's had any changes of heart since then... he's asking about me now... good or bad, maybe things are starting to come to a head. My father doesn't feel strange about it. He feels that D is, for whatever reason, unwilling to contact me directly. He feels that we may both be in a standoff situation, however, he understands why I'm no longer putting forth the effort to contact D and leaving it up to him now. He thinks D is very scattered with what he wants out of life. I believe that too... it's like he wants to move on and let me go, but he's still unwilling to sever the connection completely with me. I am not contacting him... I am not taking him up on the semi-offer of work. I need him to contact me for the right reasons... not because he has an "excuse" to. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing... this may be the last attempt D will make to open a door to me. I guess I'm taking a big risk, but I keep thinking that he's just got to do better than that if he wants me in his life (at any capacity). L.

So today I found out that the ex has asked my father if he knows of anyone that can do some web banners for the ex's biz. Those of you that have followed my thread know that: 1- I am a graphic designer (ie: I make web banners, among many other things...) and 2- that one of the reasons the relationship had started to struggle was because the ex's biz partner had not made good on the amount of graphic work that had been promised to me... The ex told my father that he's having a very difficult time finding a graphic designer... never mind the fact that he once had a LIVE-IN designer that he could call upon at any hour of the day (and usually did).. Is this supposed to be a jab in my back? I really don't know what to make of this because clearly the ex knew that this would get back to me... Any advice as always would be greatly appreciated...

You made me laugh with this one, Mona... thank you. Right. He was done with that life when we were together. We preferred to spend our time doing things together... and if he DID want to go out, he always wanted me with him. It's almost as if they can't sit still long enough to think about things. When they stop moving... that's when it hits them. Even though they are the ones making this decision to be apart from us, I think they are still struggling with what their heads and their hearts are telling them. I have thought about doing the same thing. That being said I know myself pretty well. I would get out and probably have a great time in the beginning... eventually though I believe I would again feel the weight of the loss. Going out like that was not in either D's or I's nature anymore when we were together... so going out for me would just remind me WHY I'm going out (ie: that we aren't together anymore.) Maybe in time I'll be able to get out there again... for right now I think I'd just be going through the motions. I hope that is true. I know that the true opposite of love isn't hate - it's indifference. I guess I should take solace in the fact that if he WERE, in fact, indifferent, he would have no problem being nicer to me right now. That makes sense to me, Mona. It's especially foreign for him to feel this way at the hands of a relationship because he'd been so unwilling for years to involve himself with anyone at the level we were at. I don't think he knows how to deal with this. He has very little experience with the depth of the emotions he may be experiencing now that we are apart. Again, Mona, I'm sorry that we are together in this pain, but happy that we have each other to lean on right now. I hope so. I keep thinking - every tear I cry is one more step towards healing. Today I must have healed ALOT. Remember though, there is a finite number of tears that we will shed over this relationship... this pain will not go on forever. L.