Love Her Like Crazy

So true my friend. And thanks !!

Wow Ouch... I can truly relate. Nearly identical situation including the daughter and the time we have been together. But the difference is that she has not left me ( although she has threatened a time or two ). Instead she has simply opted to tell me that she does care and that she does want to make it work, but we have only had sex 3 times in the last 12 months and it is only getting worse. When I try to figure out what it will take to get us back on track she refuses to even discuss it. Like you, I have done all that I can getting babysitters set up and cooking dinners, taking her out and all that jazz, but on the rare occasion that she actually goes along with it all it does is insure that she will sleep on the couch, because she thinks I will be anticipating my "reward". She seems to have no idea that I am just trying to be with her because I desperately miss her. She seems content to just live as two separate people sharing a home and a daughter with no other relations at all. I mean I geuss that would be ok, but I am not going to spend the next 50+ years living in celibacy with a woman I am in love with, just because my wife refuses to either leave me or step up to the plate and make it work. Long and short is I actually wish she would do what your wife has done, because although I love her more then life itself, I am so deeply stuck in this position that I am not sure what to do. I dont want to hurt her by seeking sexual fulfillment elsewhere and I dont want to be the one to stand up and leave either. So instead it is like we are on different planets, but still in the same building living under each others rules ( but without any of the healthy benefits of a good relationship ). I cant say I know what it feels like to have her actually leave, because she never has yet, but I do sit here night after night with a broken heart while she reads in the kitchen waiting for me to go to sleep so she wont have to talk to me or touch me. I dont know which is worse, but like I said I truly deeply sympathize. To be as in love with your wife as you obviously are and as deeply as I know I am, yet we sit here with absolutely no reciprocation whatsoever. I have lately tried to act like a woman would in this situation ( or at least what I think a woman would do ) and close down my heart and my communication to the point that I am meeting her on her level. Not rubbing her shoulders or feet every night and cooking and cleaning for her every night like I usually do, but instead just acting like I am a person in my home and she happens to be there. In re-reading this I cant see how this can help you other then to let you know that others are in the same position... No real advice, but I DO know how you feel and I DO truly sympathize... Best of luck to you and your beautiful daughter...

I have to say that I unfortunately cannot relate as I have only not finished with a girl like 5 times in my life. And masturbation has never really worked for me. I have tried, oh I have tried it plenty, but just not my cup of tea. Got to have a lady present. However, one thing that really works for me when you are having a hard time cuming is to ( assuming you do this ) you know when it is really starting to feel good and you kind of flex your muscles down there. Kind of like the flex you feel as you ejaculate? It is basically the same muscle group that you use to hold it in when you really need to pee. Well when you get to that point and you are starting to tighten up a little bit, try closing your eyes and focusing not on her tits or her face or any part of her body except the feeling of how good it feels to slide in and out of her. Just totally focus on that feeling and nothing else. No pressure, no stress. And while doing this, concentrate on relaxing that muscle group. No tension at all. Maybe it sounds strange, but if she is in a hurry, or if I am, or if I just cant seem to get into it, this always takes me to the end really quickly. Worth a try anway

Personally I find the small of a womans back one of the sexiest parts of her body. If I put my hand there while walking with an extremely attractive woman it can actually take my breath away. I can never remember putting my hand there on a girl that I was not interested in. It is really a pretty personal place to touch a girl in my opinion. But then again, I am not really all that normal, so who knows for sure. I have never been into T & A like most guys, but am more attracted to stomach, lower back, neck & shoulders and above all else a girl with slender wrists and ankles for some reason makes me crazy... Like I said, not the most normal person to judge by, but I hope that helps.

Wow! There are like 5 or 6 major clues it would seem to me that something could be going on. First - The guy has been in a relationship for 16 years with this woman and as creatures of habit, humans tend to go where they are most comfortable in times of stress. And if you two are having stress, the natural tendency would be to go to her, which is where he has been for the last 16 years. Second - The fact that he slept with her only 30 days prior to you getting together would indicate that they are still comfortable enough with each other to be intimate. A 16 year relationship that still has intimacy in it is a very difficult thing to erase from your mind. Especially for a man. Third - The ex calls your orginization to offer volunteer services, but then never calls back and never volunteers? That is not a ccincidence in my book no matter how you slice it. That is a jealous ex. Fourth - He attempts to make her look bad in your eyes by telling you that she is capable of having you and him watched and followed? This in my opinion is not nervous energy, this is a blatant attempt to put up a wall between you and her so that you do not in fact have an opportunity to catch him doing something that he feels guilty about. Fifth - The frequent phone calls from both him to her and from her to him is a really big indicator that their relationship is not only aged and mature but that it is still strong enough to trust and confide in each other. And in a relationship that strong, it is not a reach to suspect that they are sleeping together. Sixth - He accuses you of cheating ? Wow. From what I hear, the only people who do that are people that are guilty of it themselves. Or at least guilty of thinking about it anyways. I mean after all 16 years is a lifetime and as comfortable as a couple gets after that much time, regardless of the reasons that they separated, that type of comfort becomes second nature. Now, I dont want to sound like the bad guy here, but these are all pretty solid indicators that something MAY be going on. Not to say that it is of course, but I would be strongly suspect personally. Of course there is always a chance that his relationship with his ex is in fact purely a friendship and there is nothing wrong with having a good friend that you can confide in. Certainly everyone deserves a couple. But for my ten cents worth, I would find out for sure if this man is as dedicated to you as he was ( and maybe still is ) to his ex before I moved further down the road with him. And I mean more then just sitting him down and asking him although that is certainly the first step. They say that 9 out of 10 times when you think someone is cheating on you they actually are. People are much more perceptive then they give themselves credit for. Trust your intuition.

Oh and one more thing, I couldnt agree with armchairshrink more completely. I quit carbonated and caffeinated beverages almost 10 years ago now and I have never regretted it for a second. I was a 6 pack a day Coke drinker for almost 15 years and it was REALLY hard to quit. Especially the headaches, but I breathe better, eat better and will never drink another soda for as long as I live. I mean the fact that a single 20 oz soda has more then an entire days worth of carbohydrates alone should be enough to scare the average person away from them Best of luck to you

One thing my grandfather told me many years ago was to use salty snacks and water to replace any addiction. Soda, smoking, drinking, eating, pretty much anything. The theory is that while a lot of salt is bad for you, it is a necessary electrolyte and your body knows what to do with it. Sugar on the other hand ( and certainly nicotine ) your body does not need at all and mega doses of sugar will give you diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, hypertension you name it. Obviously a high salt diet over a long period of time is going to be just as unhealthy as smoking or soda or pretty much anything else in excess, but the salt has a way of appeasing our bodies and our appetites and gives you something to lean on while quitting a difficult habit. So grab a bag of sunflower seeds or pretzels or cornuts or mixed nuts or peanuts, or whatever and everytime you need to smoke or drink a soda, eat a salty snack and chase it with a small glass of water. Pretty much every salty snack ( except potato chips ) is good for you and all of them ( including potato chips ) are better for you then excessive sugar. And the high volume of water will only serve to clean the salt ( and the soda ) out of your kidneys and your liver and make you healthier along the way. P.S. If you really want to quit drinking soda, go to a search engine and find a website that has pictures of the kidney stones, gall stones and liver stones that are caused by the excessive amounts of sugar and soda that are consumed by the world today. First time you see a picture of an otherwise healthy 25 year old girls liver with a stone in it the size of a golf ball it will scare you straight

Oh man go for a smoothie... I finally broke down and bought myself a really good blender that can do ice without frying the motor and now I do a fruit smoothie every morning for breakfast. It is really fast and has like 3 days worth of your essential vitamins in it. As a paleolithic eater, I dont eat dairy, but with a scoop of frozen yogurt or a half a cup of yogurt you can get the same amount of protein as you can from the milk. And also with any smoothie, you can always use soy milk like you mentioned, or even coconut milk as the liquid which will give you all the good that milk offers without it actually being a dairy product. Milk is so hard on our adult digestive systems, that I personally leave the milk drinking to children who are still growing their bones and need the mega doses of calcium and the positive attributes of the steriods that are fed to the milk cows these days. For the smoothies, I just go to the market and get whatever fruit in bulk that is on sale and in season. It is really affordable and gives you a ton of vitamins and very healthy carbs to get your days energy started. ( which is a rarity these days, rembember it is empty carbs such as refined sugar and flour that makes us fat and gives us diabetes, not the healthy carbs that you get from fruit and vegetables ) I have found that using a good sweet fruit as the base ( like oranges or apples or melon ) and then at least 2 slightly more exotic and more bitter fruits ( like nectarines, cherries, clementines, mangoes, tangerines, peaches, bananas, really whatever you can find ). With this recipe of 1 base sweet fruit and 2 bitter fruits, I have yet to find a combination that doesnt taste great!! Also if you want to be a little bit braver about it, try throwing in a carrot. You can almost never taste it and it pretty much doubles the vitamin content. And if you can taste it, a half a lemon or lime will neutrilize the flavor and all you taste is the fruit. Once you get all the ingredients in, add about a half a tray of ice cubes and blend it on high for like 45 seconds, or until you dont hear the ice banging around anymore. It takes like 5 minutes to prepare and if you slice and de-seed the fruits the night before it only takes like 2 minutes to prepare. I throw whatever is left in the blender in the fridge and either use it as a base for the next days smoothie, or drink it with my dinner that evening.

What must I do in my time remaining I dont yet know how much I know; but it is a great deal Vast expanses of my nature I never knew existed until now I lived, I now know, in a cell of my own creation While just outside its walls lay a landscape unparallelled In my self-delusion I thought I was a minor king Refused to step beyond the bounds of my own dominion I could not leave the safety of me for fear of a reawakening Need it take such a profound event to transform us To open our eyes and our hearts to the glorious diversities of life To deliver us finally to the destiny that is to each of us... . . . completely our own

I can relate personally, and I do sympathize. I spent the first years of my life severely abused by my father and 30 years later I am just learning to come to grips with it through very intensive therapy. In reading your poem, I wanted to comment and that I do understand now through therapy and hypnotic regression/recall what it feels like to be a very very very lonely and very frightened child with no one to turn to......... Also as deviousj420 has stressed. If this is a situation that is current it can be repaired and it can be corrected.

In re-reading my post it occurred to me that I didnt even make my point My point is that even these thoughts I am having are the result of a failed sex life, I am sure that this type of void I am feeling could be the result of just about any deficity in a relationship. Lack of time spent together. Lack of respect. Lack of romance. Lack of just about anything I suspect could cause a person to feel that way that I am now. And the way I feel right now, about the only thing that it seems will make the pain go away is the arms of another woman. Now if my wife would surprise me with an unscheduled roll in the hay or even just go out and buy some sexy underwear I can assure you I would be focused on her 100% for some time to come. As a guy who is head over heels in love with someone that doesnt seem to know I am available for her anymore, I can assure you she could have my attention very quickly and very completely if she just raised a single finger in my direction. Again, this may not apply, but I do hope my thoughts will help you in some way....

I cannot tell by your post if you are the one that cheated, or the other person in your relationship is the one that cheated. I suspect they are the one that cheated on you? As a person in a long term relationship with little to zero sex and survive near constant arguments about the fact that I would like to have sex occasionally and she doesnt like sex at all, I can say that there are times when I think that if I could just get someone else in my life who enjoyed sex then I could go back to enjoying my wife and my family the way I used to when it seemed that my wife enjoyed my company. I have not cheated on her and I am not sure that I ever would, but I do think about it more often then I used to. I mean the absolute most we have sex anymore is about once or twice a month, but occasionaly we will go several months in between. Clearly not enough for a healthy person, but for her it seems like even that is too much. Anyway, I hope I have not detracted from your point, as I dont really know anything about the specifics of your breakup and for all I know your sex life could have been great, but as a person strongly considering an external discreet relationship in order to fill that void in my life ( even though I do love my wife like crazy ), I just thought my thoughts might help you in some way..

Thank you everyone for your insight and support. I have received far more then I ever expected from a forum and I am glad I chose to post here. I wanted to take a moment and let you all know that I am working up the courage to talk to my Wife this weekend with my heart in my hands and explain to her all that I am feeling and thinking and let her know that living this way for the next 50+ years is simply not an option for me. Combined with the fact that I am confident she knows I love her and that she loves me I feel that this conversation has a very good chance of going the right way (maybe not out of the gate, but I am sure we can get there). Long story short, this is it. For better or worse as they say. Wish me luck. I will be back to post as to the succes or failure of my mission. And again thank you all sincerely for the support advice and guidance...

I agree 100%

I do agree with this. Piling issues on issues certainly is no way to solve them. However as you also mentioned, we have worked extensively at this and gotten basically no where. I do feel that a thorough medical evaluation would be appropriate, but when I mention these things to her she assures me there is nothing wrong. I cant really force her to see a doctor if she doesnt want to. But this is where it gets so frustrating. She wants to find a solution, but does so little to help. When I bring solutions or suggestions to the table she acts as if she would rather just go on living this way indefinitely. This is actually something that I have thought about. If I just sat her down and showed her exactly what I have been doing. The research, the articles and the forums. I have nothing to hide, but it does open a new can of worms in that she may not like the fact that I talk about it with other people and I am not sure how she would take that. Although, at this point I feel that I cant really do anything to make it worse, so...

Thank you Bellamcb !! Incredibly sensible intelligent advice. Everyone who has posted has given me pause for thought and I appreciate it tremendously. As to your comments on Monogamy not really working. This is something that I do feel is a very real possibility. After all there are only about 3 species out of millions on this planet that mate for life and humans are unique in the sense that we only started mating for life several thousand years ago. This may seem like a long time, but where the final stage of our evolution from stone-age man to homo-sapien finished its transition 1 million years ago, we have actually only been monogamous for less then 1/2 of 1% of the final stage of our existence. Clearly not a natural thing. However it has become socially unacceptable to act in any other manner. A classic case of society over nature. As to your comments about the things you and your girlfriends talk about. It really does make a lot of sense. Well it does to me anyway. I have long believed that when dating Woman use sex to get love and Men use love to get sex. I mean you cant even tell when a man is genuine anymore, because 99% of the time he just wants to "get some". And with Woman the only way to find out if they are being genuine in their sexuality is to marry them and then suffer the consequences if they were in fact just "pretending" to be interested in sex in order to get the love that they need. But then on the other hand you are the first Woman I have ever heard mention that actual physical and emotion changes that occurred after you got married. Obviously this has been the subject of comedy and debate for many years, but if this is real, then maybe it too is a strong hint that we are not really designed to "mate for life". And in fact could be a happier species if we had more open relationships. I for one am a loyal person and will not do anything stupid that will hurt myself and my family. However, there is definitely a line in the sand and it feels like she doesnt even hear me anymore when I try to talk about anything that in any way remotely even hints at sexual relations... So basically ( for lack of a better definition ) I am in love with ( and married to ) my room mate. The only difference from any other room mate is that I have sworn before God and my common man that I will be loyal to my "room mate" in all things including sexuality. But the monkey wrench in the works is my room mate doesnt want to be invloved with me that way so....

Between you and me and the fence post, I think every person alive has something chemically different from every other person. Many of us ( myself included ) have a chemical problem in our brains that do not allow us to absorb dopamine and the neurotransmitters over-fire seratonin. The result is that we have a very real depression in a near constant state and when we feel great it is actually what other people feel like normally. The long and the short of it is, I would recommend therapy, but personally I would not waste my money on a therapist or a Phsycologist. I would call around to the local community programs and get a recommendation of a good Phsychiatrist. They are just as educated in therapy as any other type of counselor or therapist, but they are also medical doctors. They can prescirbe a very simple medication that could change your life overnight. Assuming you need medication that is of course. But personally I have never thought it made sense doing therapy with someone that can do nothing but listen to you. Why not spend the money on someone with a degree that allows them to help you fix the problem. I know so many people who's lives have been completely reinvented by something as simple as a tiny dose of anit-depressant medication. about 20% of the world takes medication for depression and while many of them may not need it, there is a good chance that you do and I can personally assure you that if you do, it would CHANGE YOUR LIFE

Yes. believe it or not we have actually discussed the possibility of an organized affair so that we could both be happier. It seems crazy I know and involves another person which can only serve in the long run to make it even more complicated, but we did discuss it. One of the promises that we made each other when we got married was that should one of us ever want to stray, or even consider it that we would tell the other person. We agreed that we would be open-minded about it. However when I did bring it up, she was understandably freaked out. I assured her that I had done nothing more then have a few thoughts and to mention to her that I was greatly displeased with our sexual relationship and had some thoughts about going elsewhere. This of course was not news to her and in fact she was greatly relieved to hear that I had not done anything. As we have both been very vocal about this for several years, there are no real secrets and she says she has wondered if I had strayed or had thought about straying. I must admit it hurt my feelings pretty bad that should would think I had strayed. Especially after the way I have waited on her hand and foot and all but worshipped her from the day we got married. I dont know, maybe sometimes I think I am trying toooo hard...

Great point. But no that is not why I posted here. To be brutally honest I couldnt find a forum that made sense, but since this has been on my mind I thought I might get the interest of those that have done it and regretted it you know? I really just posted here because it made more sense then any other index that I saw listed. I do not want to cheat on my wife. I do not want to hurt her or my daughter, but the lack of intimacy has grown to be such a large issue, I must admit I am thinking far less clearer then I have in the past on the issue.

This has been going on for some time now and indeed we have discussed many different things. She has tried several different types of birth control pills in case there were hormone issues involved. We do have some conflict in our religion where she is very religious and I am not at all. This has caused some friction in the past, but when discussed it doesnt seem to be an issue in regards to our marital bed. She has told me she has a hard time being intimate, when it seems that "all I want is sex" and nothing else. I have several opinions on this including the simple fact that if you dont have food for a long period of time you dont need caviar and champagne, you just need food and sex is very similar in my opinion. If you starve someone long enough, they dont really want to do the 4 hour messages and candlelit baths. Although I certainly do my part in that arena. I have purchased more flowers, candy, sexy underwear, lotions, oils, dinners out on the town, cards, you name it. I am the biggest sucker for all that jazz and it never gets me anywhere but in debt. Over the years, I have kind of quit trying in that department though, because it really seemed like a waste of energy. Also, it is very hard for me to be romantic for days and weeks on end with no conclusion and if that was really the problem, then why do we never get intimate after romantic evenings. I mean "never". She has made it a point over the years to not have sex on special occasions such as birthdays, trips or romantic dates, because she feels that it is simply a reward and not a legitimate interest in each other sexually. Anyway. Yes I agree with what you are saying. It must be deeper. But unless she has feelings or resentments that she is not admitting to me then we have discussed everything that has been put on the table.

ditto

Bridget - I must admit I am pleaseantly surprised that the first person to express thoughts on my situation is someone who has experienced a very similar thing that I am going through now. And you have the ability to share the female perspective of feeling like your mate has no sexual interest in you. I honestly cant imagine what it would be like to be with a person that I love as much as my wife that actually enjoys sex. It would be pure bliss. I must be honest and admit that when I read forums where woman like yourself have posted that their mates are not interested in sex, I am very jealous of them and I want to go find the men and slap some sense into them. I personally find it incredibly emasculating and even more importantly it attacks the very foundation of my very self esteem. How can you feel good about yourself when the person that is supposed to be the closest to you hides in the kitchen reading every night so that you fall asleep, or that they prefer sleeping in a twin bed with a wiggly 6 year old then to sleep with the person who loves them more then anything in the world. I mean this woman will do anything to avoid having me touch her, hold her or heaven forbid try to kiss her. She even dresses and undresses in the bathroom now so that I never see her naked. She says it is her way of making sure that I dont get "any ideas". And to answer your qeustions, yes this was the primary topic during both couples counseling and in separate private counseling. We talked very openly and honestly and made lots of promises about trying to see each others perspective and perhaps even find some common ground where we can both feel desired. She tells me she loves me and never wants to be with anyone else. But at the same time she says that sex has absolutely no appeal to her at all and even told me once that she could honestly go through life and never have sex again and be perfectly happy. The few times a year we actually have sex are the "rewards" ( her words ) for me being so patient and such a good father and husband. But really... Even the most devoted puppy will eventually leave if you whip him often enough. And I have been whipped and whipped ( not literally of course, that would be a good thing ) until I cant even remember what it feels like to "BE" with a woman. Anyway, this is not a love-less marriage, but it is a sex-less marriage and I am torn between hurting her and moving on mith my life, but that would also hurt me terribly because I do love her very much. Or do I begin seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere in the warped belief that it may fill that void and that my "real" life can continue as it is. I dont know... It feels like a lose-lose situation.

I am 33 and my wife is 27... OK, tell me how selfish and insulting this is to say, but I married a very beautiful very intellifent extremely sexy woman. I fell in love with her mind, her body and her soul completely. We were intinmate 2 or 3 times a day when we were dating ( obviously way above average, but hey we were crazy kids in love , then once a day after marriage for a couple weeks and has been steadily declining ever since until it is now in the arena of a couple times a year. And I mean that literally. 2 or 3 times a year. I have talked candidly with every male married person I know including my brothers friends and even my father. I have spent countless hours perusing forums and reading books and articles about sex-less marriages. It seems to me that there is a general consensus that we just need to work through it if we love our mate and live lives miserably as far as intimacy is concerned and in the long term hope that we will find the key that opens that lock. I also feel that I have come accross an especially large number of men with exactly the same situation in there lives ( and to be fair, there has been a handful of woman that have posted about their husbands not liking sex at all ). Anyway, the long and the short of it is I am truly at the end of my patience with this sex thing. I have always been a person who loves sex and have been very active since my teen years. I cannot live a full and happy life without a decent sex life and obviously would prefer that relationship to be with the one I love. What do I do ? I love my wife like crazy. She is my everything. She is a great mother to our 6 year old daughter and a very good wife in all respects other then intimacy. I really hit the jackpot with this beautiful angel I was lucky enough to marry. But I dont think I can live without intimacy any longer. I am very seriously at the point where I am either going to start listing on classifieds looking for discreet lovers, or I am going to leave my wife and start over. However if we do get separated I will NEVER get married again, because I could never find a woman better then the one I have now. And I am now convinced through research and personal experiences that all woman lose interest in sex to one degree or another after marriage. Again, go ahead and throw the selfish comments and tell me what a chauvanist that I am, but this is where I am at. I have done enough medical research to know that there is a physical need for a male to "release" every 48-72 hours or there is actual physical damage and pain. There are also hormones released when there is a lack of regular "release" that have been proven to cause an increase in temperment and anger and has been attributed to cases of rage and abuse. My only point in bringing this up is that maybe, just maybe our modern version of monogamy is actually in stark contrast to our forefathers and our ancestors of mellenia past. I mean even the mormons which is one of the most "cult" based right wing organizations under the religious umbrella and even they encouraged Polygamy right up until it was made illegal. If there is such a high percentage of males unhappy with their sex life and such a high percentage of females unhappy with their romance, then maybe just maybe we are not programmed for one-on-one relationships. Maybe the "experiment" of marriage is a failure and everyone just refuses to admit that it doesnt really work. Anyway, I am just babbling now, but really, does anyone have any sensible advice for both myself and the thousands of others that are living the same sexless hell? Any unique ideas or twists on how to maybe bring a real spark to our life that doesnt involve a trip to Hawaii to get her "in the mood" everytime we need sex? Anyone... ? Please.... I do love my wife more then any other person I know ( except maybe my daughter of course ). And I would really really like to find some common ground, but how many times can you go to counseling and how many times can you promise each other that it will be different and how many times can we lay in bed all night and stare at the ceiling because the sexual frustration is too much to bear? I am at the end of my patience, but desperately dont want to hurt her if that is possible.