Love Interest Now Single (I think)

[Pleasedonot5]

Thank you for your reply, DancingFool.

It seems probable now that I did not meet her expectations, but I did not do anything that should have been seen as rejection before things got weird. I flirted back, we kissed, we even got a little sensual.

Everything was going great. And then a switch flicked, right during the handhold. We were cuddling before so I didn't see the issue. And then everything became distant.

And then after a while I said something like I hope things are not weird, we were having fun. And then she said something about handholding being too intimate. Then we said something about oh, well we were kissing, cuddling, and [sexual thing here]. Then, she said all the other stuff, including sex, didn't bother her like that did. And then I said the thing about knowing someone and developing a connection first, and those actions do that. So, there was no "rejection" before things got weird. Certainly my comments and follow-up actions didn't help. I get that now. But they definitely did not cause the awkwardness. 

Sending a text about wanting to go on a date is not putting in a ton of effort. Yes, I admire the forthcomingness of that. She beat me to the punch. However, I'm not sure I follow where all the effort was. 

--

I think your take is valuable and that substantial parts of it are probably the correct interpretation. There probably was a universe where getting down and dirty would have happened -- that certainly was not my expectation -- but maybe the way things went or felt I did not feel comfortable escalating. 

I did really want to kiss, maybe do more. Call me pathetic or lame or timid if you want. But if I wasn't going in with the expectation of sleeping with her, then I should not have invited her over. Certainly that seemed to have created an expectation in her mind. 

Lesson learned. 

[Rose Mosse]

How are you doing today? You like her quite a lot and I read that you put in considerable effort cooking for her. That takes more effort than making a reservation at a restaurant. My first thought reading your initial update was "I hope he doesn't get hurt" and I was disappointed for you because you did get hurt. It was an anti-climax unfortunately and I don't think either of you were prepared for it. It just didn't work out and I don't think it's your fault or that you didn't respect her enough or have enough game. She may just not see you that way or treat you seriously enough as someone she could date and is too familiar around you. 

If it were me in your place I would not be around for her wishy washy behaviour any longer. It's clear she likes the attention you give her but she doesn't reciprocate the deeper feelings that you have for her. You mentioned you're not able to be her friend which is fine. You need to be well yourself before you can be a friend to anyone else. I thought you both dance in the same group and have mutual friends and also enter competitions together as dance partners. I'd take deep breaths and take one day at a time. Let this blow over and see what's in store next week. Personally, I'd be hurt and need time to heal but ultimately I wouldn't be interested in her anymore as a romantic interest. She's all over the place and not emotionally available. 

[Pleasedonot5]

7 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I dunno man, from what you wrote about the other date with her and now, I see 2 options, none of it is especially good for you

1) She just wanted a cheap fling. She was "dtf", even initiated some things but backed off as soon as you started to show some intimacy with hand holding. So she canceled whole thing out.

2) There is a specific type of girls we call here "teasers". Its described as "will bring you to bed, strip you, then walk away". They thrive on attention, enjoy flirting but when it comes to real stuff, they tune out. That dancing situation, even this, kinda reminds me on that. I hope to God I am wrong with that one and that you didnt run on one, let alone fallen for her.

I wouldnt invest too much into this one. Stay in contact, see if she maybe wants another date. But if you see that same type of behavior continues and that you are getting nowhere, walk away. It isnt worth your time.

Thanks, Kwothe28.

I am a little baffled at the moment. Like, it was going so well, then it wasn't - without much explanation for why one little commonplace gesture would suddenly ruin the night. 

I am really hoping it was not (1) but if it was she was using my interest and that is not cool. But even if it were (1), I just don't understand some of the actions she took. 

I guess I left out that there was some hot and cold during the night before I think things were weird. I wish I could give better details, so you guys could know better what the night looked and felt like. It is difficult over text. 

It is not like she was holding my hand and taking me to the bedroom: I probably wouldn't have said no. She'd kiss me, once or twice when I tried to kiss her she'd move away, as if she was playing hard to get or something. It is difficult to even get a handle on who is taking charge and who wants what out of the interaction with a dynamic like that. And it is difficult to read "let's bonk" when someone is moving away.

I think (2) is reasonably possible. I am not certain, but she could shy away when it comes to real stuff - the dance event is a clue which seems to support that. 

[Pleasedonot5]

So, with an almost full night's sleep and the clarity that it brings, I am looking back at the date.

It is important to note after the date was planned (i.e., after coming to my place for a meal and watching a comedy show were set as the plan), she said something like "first date!!" so, that plays into this a little. I am not a prude but a first date usually carries different expectations than a date later down the line. 

What I in truth wanted was to impress her with a nice and well-prepared date - which led to cuddling, kissing, a greater connection. My reactions to what advances she made during the night suggest I would not have been opposed to more. 

I am frustrated with myself for a few reasons, mainly that I acted inconsistently. 

* She came on really strong with regard to sex. I egged it on but neither of us followed through. 

* I revealed things I like sexually, which are confidential, to someone I do not know intimately yet. And then she left, probably with disinterest. Of course, this was at her urging, but it feels bad in retrospect.

* After she became distant, and as the night was ending, I asked if she was okay to drive or if she wanted to stay over. She had said she might earlier without my prompting, but with how the night was going I should not have offered this. This definitely did not help the awkwardness at best and it was pathetic at worst. 

* Ultimately, I put all this mental energy and effort into someone that I have been interested in for quite a while, but clearly I either misread her intentions and/or did not live up to expectations. Probably both. 

--

In fairness, I am frustrated that she acted in the following ways:

- She made overt sexual overtures that probably would have been uncomfortable to anyone who saw long-term potential. 

- Despite this, even if she wanted sex, she acted inconsistently: she was hot and cold is the best way to describe it. Or, like she wanted it but then wanted the chase or something. I don't know: these situations were difficult to read. They would not naturally lead to the bedroom, if that makes sense. 

- Having alarm bells go off over a certain type of handhold with your crush (IF that is what I was) is weird. It is not my fault that she has this weird hang-up.

--

I do not know what to do moving forward. 

 

[Rose Mosse]

You don't need to have all the answers at once. Just cool off and let this be for awhile. Focus on other things or force your mind to switch gears and do something else. Take a mental break.

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

I do not know what to do moving forward. 

Put it behind you. 

Step back and treat her with respect and someone who just experienced a breakup, not an opportunity for you.

You may not like hearing that, but it's my take on it.

[Pleasedonot5]

[Edited to remove speculation].

Even given all of the reasonable interpretations posters have offered, I do not know which interpretation is correct, honestly. If I did, maybe I could plan to salvage the possibility of being with her, if that's what I wanted. 

It is a let-down and absolutely confusing to be into someone since meeting them and then a date doesn't go well.

So, I probably should (1) figure out what went wrong so that if I want to continue, I have a better idea of what to do, and then (2) determine whether pursuing is even what I want anymore. 

[Pleasedonot5]

4 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

You don't need to have all the answers at once. Just cool off and let this be for awhile. Focus on other things or force your mind to switch gears and do something else. Take a mental break.

Good plan.  Yes, I think this is necessary for the time-being.

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Put it behind you. 

Step back and treat her with respect and someone who just experienced a breakup, not an opportunity for you.

You may not like hearing that, but it's my take on it.

Thank you for your take. 

I do find the suggestion uncomfortable because I do respect her lots. That said, I will keep your advice in mind as I move forward.

[Pleasedonot5]

8 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

You don't need to have all the answers at once. Just cool off and let this be for awhile. Focus on other things or force your mind to switch gears and do something else. Take a mental break.

Unfortunately, I will be seeing her at a group social dance event this Friday. So, tomorrow evening. That is not a date but rather we will both be there. 

She is probably closed off and disinterested. And I am probably confused and annoyed (at least, at the moment). So, I do not know how to act. Respectful, of course. But other than that I do not know what to do. 

[Pleasedonot5]

1 hour ago, Rose Mosse said:

How are you doing today? You like her quite a lot and I read that you put in considerable effort cooking for her. That takes more effort than making a reservation at a restaurant. My first thought reading your initial update was "I hope he doesn't get hurt" and I was disappointed for you because you did get hurt. It was an anti-climax unfortunately and I don't think either of you were prepared for it. It just didn't work out and I don't think it's your fault or that you didn't respect her enough or have enough game. She may just not see you that way or treat you seriously enough as someone she could date and is too familiar around you. 

If it were me in your place I would not be around for her wishy washy behaviour any longer. It's clear she likes the attention you give her but she doesn't reciprocate the deeper feelings that you have for her. You mentioned you're not able to be her friend which is fine. You need to be well yourself before you can be a friend to anyone else. I thought you both dance in the same group and have mutual friends and also enter competitions together as dance partners. I'd take deep breaths and take one day at a time. Let this blow over and see what's in store next week. Personally, I'd be hurt and need time to heal but ultimately I wouldn't be interested in her anymore as a romantic interest. She's all over the place and not emotionally available. 

I just saw this, sorry. I haven't had my coffee yet and I'm not wearing my glasses. An easy recipe for missing your reply, haha. 

Reading this reply made me feel a little better. Thank you for recognizing the effort  and for asking how I am. I am feeling better than last night. I still do not feel great. 

Wishy-washy is probably an apt descriptor. I was thinking of using the phrase "mixed messages," which is similar. Normally, dating with the right person feels easy and clear: at least that is how I have felt on dates with the right people in the past. This one started off that way, but then that is not how the night ended. 

I will take some time but, yes, the thoughts in the back of my mind are telling me this may be more trouble than it is worth. My heart / feelings / level of interest have not caught up yet. Defeated expectations hurt but I will heal and move forward. 

--

Edit: yes, to clarify, we were competitive dance partners. We haven't competed since the pandemic hit and do not have to compete again. We see each other at least once a month at social dance events, though.

[boltnrun]

It seems to me that she wanted some breakup-distracting casual sex. Holding hands is something couples do. She (rightly, at least for now) does not see you two as a couple. Since you talked about building a "connection" and she wasn't there for a "connection" but rather just a distracting roll in the sack, she got "weird".

That's my interpretation. Which could be totally wrong. 

[LaHermes]

46 minutes ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

But other than that I do not know what to do. 

All I can add PDN is:

"When in doubt, don't". 

When one has to over-analyze so much, IMO it isn't worth it. 

[Pleasedonot5]

8 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

It seems to me that she wanted some breakup-distracting casual sex. Holding hands is something couples do. She (rightly, at least for now) does not see you two as a couple. Since you talked about building a "connection" and she wasn't there for a "connection" but rather just a distracting roll in the sack, she got "weird".

That's my interpretation. Which could be totally wrong. 

This seems like a reasonable interpretation of the events that occured.

I'll add she was a little amorous / not just sexual at first. So, maybe she came over expecting sex but the possibility of romantic feelings were there. Then, she didn't feel it, and then alarm bells. 

I am starting to think all this awkwardness comes from different expectations or feelings going in. She just didn't (and doesn't) feel the same way. Save for me magically doing a 180 or suppressing acting harmoniously with the way I felt, I think that because of these different intentions, the date was probably doomed to fail.

[Pleasedonot5]

7 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

All I can add PDN is:

"When in doubt, don't". 

When one has to over-analyze so much, IMO it isn't worth it. 

Sage advice, LaHermes. Thank you. 

[Rose Mosse]

1 hour ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

I just saw this, sorry. I haven't had my coffee yet and I'm not wearing my glasses. An easy recipe for missing your reply, haha. 

Reading this reply made me feel a little better. Thank you for recognizing the effort  and for asking how I am. I am feeling better than last night. I still do not feel great. 

Wishy-washy is probably an apt descriptor. I was thinking of using the phrase "mixed messages," which is similar. Normally, dating with the right person feels easy and clear: at least that is how I have felt on dates with the right people in the past. This one started off that way, but then that is not how the night ended. 

I will take some time but, yes, the thoughts in the back of my mind are telling me this may be more trouble than it is worth. My heart / feelings / level of interest have not caught up yet. Defeated expectations hurt but I will heal and move forward. 

--

Edit: yes, to clarify, we were competitive dance partners. We haven't competed since the pandemic hit and do not have to compete again. We see each other at least once a month at social dance events, though.

Well, don't do what I did and have more coffee than your usual and end up browsing the forums until 2 am the following morning. 🙃 

I'm sorry about how the date turned out but glad you are feeling a bit better. You can't turn back what has already happened. All you can focus and pay attention to now is today and the rest of the week. See her on Friday then and be yourself, don't ignore her, be polite and friendly but I'd leave the romantic gestures out of it and take care of yourself. You've done a lot. I don't think she's ready to date.

[Lambert]

Pdn5....

My take on this whole thing is, this isn't anything you should feel bad about. of course you do. you like her and it's disappointing. 

But! I think you two are just on different pages. 

You are coming from, hey let's build something together.

She's coming from break up city and is looking for comfort, sexual and ego boosting.

I think the best thing you can do now is bow out gracefully. And who knows maybe in time the situation will be different. 

Take care of yourself.  Don't internalize her actions. She's not in a good place to a girlfriend. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Lambert said:

She's coming from break up city and is looking for comfort, sexual and ego boosting. Don't internalize her actions. She's not in a good place to a girlfriend. 

Agree. A lot of this hot/cold stuff is a function of her rebound situation.

[greendots]

Maybe she just isn't the hand-holding type? Not everyone is into that or find it too personal. FYI, some people hold hands very early on, even though they're only casually dating.

Have you guys spoken since the date? Texting memes doesn't count, lol.

I'd say, when you go to that event, play it by ear. And please don't assume the worst. She might still be interested in you.

Interest is like a plant that when you water the roots sufficiently, it grows. But whenever you 'overwater' it, it drowns.

[Andrina]

This seems to confirm what I originally thought. She's just not that into you. She might think you're attractive and fun to be with, but that all important spark isn't there. I've been in similar situations before, where there initially seemed to be chemistry between me and a guy, and there would be flirting, and the guy seeking me out to talk. But then nothing ever took off. 

When they are wishy-washy like this, they like the ego boost and the fun of flirting, but when it gets down to developing something that will lead to regular dating and hoping to build something nice, they press the emergency stop button.

It's my guess that even if she had a whole year without a man in her life, she still wouldn't be good dating material for you.

A few of those guys I wanted more from, I later learned unsavory things about. Now that I'm happily married, I'm so glad my guardian angel was at work doing right by me. Sometimes you just have to trust fate has someone better in store. Someone who will be crystal clear how crazy she is about you. Take care.

[Unsure2021]

I’m sorry you’ve had a disappointing first date. Did you talk about your long-term intentions with her? If you invited her to your place as a first date, she was expecting to have sex. Prolly shaved, got ready etc. What strikes me as odd is the sheer amount of effort she expended to get your interest in the first place. She told you she’s single now, asked you out, she initiated most of the kissing, proactively asked you sexual questions and told you clearly what she wanted. You weren’t excited about this, if anything you reluctantly shared intimate details that you now seem to regret and pumped the breaks by holding her hand, as if you were in a loving relationship. I think your lack of initiative and this last gesture put her off and she felt rejected and turned off.
 

When women shoot their shot like that and get turned down, it’s a big blow to the ego and something you may not recover from. The female and male roles seem reversed here and all women want to feel desirable sexually, without having to chase the guy for sex. The rub seems that she wants a casual sexual relationship to get over her ex, while you want a long-term relationship. Make sure you get on the same page before you continue and don’t bring women to your place on a first date.

[Pleasedonot5]

Update. Not a good one, I'm afraid.

And yes, I am sorry to anyone who advised me to stay away. Clearly, I did not do that. 

So, she actually did text me yesterday and gave me her availability, which surprised me. Ok, so my heart wanted it, but my brain was not sure given the weirdness of the last date. I said we could plan something out at the social dance event. She responded "Ok"

The social dance event (tonight) comes. I was ten minutes late arriving (punctuality is not required at these things). She texts me and asks me where I am. I arrive shortly thereafter. She acts interested. She dances with me and does so flirtatiously, right from the get-go.

We talked at one point about the date. We discussed the dynamic and why it was a little weird: both of us intermittently seeming to take charge (weird dynamic). And also, nerves making us both, but me particularly, yeah, a little timid. So, it seemed that there was an explanation after all. Things actually seemed to be going well.

At one point, we sat down and we both started planning the next date. I wanted to figure out what she likes doing or watching so that we both could enjoy an activity together. She mentions some activities and shows and so we make a plan for Tuesday doing one of them.

I had received good feedback from ENA and outside of ENA. One of the most popular explanations is that she put in effort for a fun night and my lack of follow-through there might have made her feel let down or rejected. 

So anyway, as the night progresses, she makes statements about us making out (like, that she would like it). We danced closely during bachata and flirty during other dances. At one point late in the night, but not too late, she asks if I would like to leave. Yeah, I would like that. I would be lying if I said I did not want it and I was keen not to repeat last time. 

This next part describes some sexual activity, because they are details necessary to this post. Be forewarned.

We arrive at my place; we go there because it is closer than hers. We discuss what we like sexually: BDSM and the various parts of it. So, we get a fair idea about what the other likes. At one point, during a tangent in the conversation, she made a statement about us and relationships. So, I mentioned my intentions - no rush - but I am interested in her and would like a relationship down the line. I ask what she wants - whether she is just chillin' or is she interested in pursuing a relationship. She mentions she would like a relationship, and that yeah, she would not have asked me out on a date if she was not interested. So, wow, there is another worry, gone. Great. Things are going well.

Strangely (I did not think too much about this in the moment and this makes sense only in retrospect), she says "well, the only thing is if we do it like three times or something and it really is not good then it will probably not work out." I say well, yeah, of course if there are incompatibilities or something, then either one is free to not pursue a relationship. Then we go on with the conversation: she wants me to take charge tonight. I can do that. [Other context that I do not know where to put: she can't have sex because of some painful condition]. She also mentions at one point that she has never had a guy that was good at oral. I say well, we'll see, haha. 

We each shower, and then we get to it. It started out fun; she was not "playing the part" perfectly, but it is the first time so that is totally understandable. Fine. Anyway, TMI alert. Well, we get to a point where I go down on her. Now, I know I am not a professional Olympian God when it comes to oral, but I do have a detailed sexual history, and I have received positive feedback from partners over the years, including recently. Usually if someone would prefer it a different way, they tell you. And with experience, comes knowledge of all sorts of techniques; you adapt to what the other person likes, because everyone likes something different. And I want my partners to feel great, so I take that sort of feedback and then do what works. Nothing wrong with feedback! 

Ok, so I do my routine that usually works like a charm. At one point, she starts grinning, then laughing. She is not really reacting. I ask what is up. She says in a condescending tone, and with a laugh:  "This really isn't good, [my name]." Wow, okay. You all were not there, so you cannot hear the way it was said and the way she laughed. It was rude and I felt disrespected.

I was kind of taken aback, but I reacted thus: I said something like, "oh, well do you prefer it another way?" and she did not really answer. I then said "are you just being a sassy submissive?" She thought about it, then said something that conveyed that she mostly meant it. I wish I would have stopped there. I think I was just shocked. I said something in a dominant tone like, "well, should I keep going or... maybe I should stop?" She said I could continue. Then, she was not reacting at all. I was in my own brain for a minute until my wits caught up to me and I realized I had been disrespected and belittled by this person. 

I stopped and said, "you know, if you are going to make comments like that, I do not think we should do this." She said, "I don't think we should do this either." I said, "I think you should get dressed and leave." She did, said sorry, then said "bye, [my name]." I said "see ya" from another room. She texted me after and said "Hey, I made it home safe. I am sorry about what happened tonight. I don't think we should do anything like that again. I'm sorry." I said, "Agreed." She said, "I'm sorry." Then, I did not respond and I do not plan to.

I have never felt disrespected like that during a sexual encounter before. To drive the point home, this does not seem like a fragile ego thing: my partners typically seem to have a great time. Sometimes, women say to do something different, or occasionally someone is not feeling it and then the sex stops. Both those things are not disrespectful, and they do not hurt at all.

But I felt disrespected here. To illustrate how that made me feel, picture a dude who you are quite interested in coming over your place. Effing you, then saying, "yeah, you really aren't good." Then, leaving. It makes one feel disrespected, gross, and dirty. That is how I feel.  I have never kicked a woman (or anyone, for that matter), out of my apartment before. This was the first time. I am glad I stood up for myself and directed her to leave. I wish I would have done so even sooner. 

Reasons she acted that way? Well, obviously, she wasn't enjoying it. But the reason she defaulted to belittling instead of healthy communication? Well, beats me. I know she has told me she had a toxic family life growing up and that her last two relationships were very toxic. So, maybe that is how she communicates. I want nothing to do with it. I'm done. 

My pride is hurt, confidence is shaken. A seemingly great situation turned out to be too good to be true. But, the silver lining is I am not interested in K anymore. At least I know now about the way she treats people instead of months down the line. 

Eff that. What a jerk.  

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this happened. You're not compatible. It's that simple. 

Try to get your ego out of your own way. You were pretty nasty and abusive to her. And why? Because she wasn't enjoying oral, so you throw her out?

Reach out to the BDSM community and dating sites rather than try to convert a friend hurting from a breakup into someone who wants to play your games.

Sorry but you're not her friend. And apparently not her lover. Just a guy who swoops in looking to hurt someone vulnerable.

If you want niche dating that includes being sadistic, you need to find someone into that. Not invite women to your place and proceed to treat them like crap.

[Batya33]

I'm sorry you're disappointed and feel disrespected and I confess I skimmed parts of it.  You are not describing two people trying to date and get to know each other.  You are describing two people sexually attracted to each other and acting on the sexual attraction primarily.  It's nice you planned an actual date but your actions show that sex was the primary focus for both of you. 

The sexual part didn't seem to work out that well and had you two prioritized getting to know each other on dates where you did activities in public whether free or otherwise then both of you would be acting consistently with the intention of dating.  You chose instead to prioritize sexual activity in your home.  That's not the same as dating with potential for a relationship -sex can be part of it, even casual sex, but here it's the prime focus.  And that's not what you said you wanted in this thread.  But it's how you're acting, how she is acting and that's adding to the "confusion" you're both creating. 

You focus on how she treated you during sex but you expressed interest in dating her - with actual dating activities and then chose sexual encounters in your home to act out this BDSM stuff (sorry I'm just not that familiar with those fetishes/kinks) - so you also are not communicating properly.

[boltnrun]

First off, I strongly suggest you get STD tested.  You performed oral unprotected (I presume).  She may have done this with other men that you don't know about.  It's best to know for sure you didn't catch anything.

And I'm also confused about what it is you want.  You say you want an actual relationship but led with sex.  Both of you are behaving as though sex is the goal.  Which is fine, but it's not likely to lead to a committed romantic relationship.

I presume you're going to see her again next Friday at the dance event.  Try to follow through with your misgivings and don't allow this to happen again.  She apparently feels you are sexually incompatible, so why put yourself through this anymore?

I can tell you, there have been a couple of times I was attracted to a man and wanted sex with him but when it happened it was disappointing.  These were good looking men too, it had nothing to do with their appearance, but for whatever reason the sex was unsatisfying.  Try not to let it be a blow to your ego (so to speak!).  The right woman will be pleased and satisfied.  This just isn't the right one.

[dias]

17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

First off, I strongly suggest you get STD tested.  You performed oral unprotected (I presume).  

You can perform protected cunnilingus? How can you do that?