Is my picker completely off again?!

[tattoobunnie]

On 3/20/2021 at 12:20 PM, Hora said:

He said multiple times that I was "intimidating".

Yes, your picker is off here.  When a guy tells you repeatedly they find you intimidating, it's their way to manipulate you into behaving differently..."like a lady", priming you up to prove how you're not by spreading your legs at least by the next date.  NEXTTTTT.

You want a man who isn't intimated by you.  And the fact that he shared, people find him intimated speaks volumes that he wants to be the dominate and should be.  I vote NO to a 2nd date!!

[SherrySher]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Agree.  I don't buy for a minute that it's because you're "too trusting" - safe neighborhood/know neighbors -nothing to do with meeting a stranger.  You're making these choices because it's easier and because you are attracted to the person and you tell yourself you're a "go with the flow" person - it's much harder to pause, have a talk with yourself and do what makes common sense rather than act on impulse.  I always exchanged last names so i could google the person.  Saved me several wasted first meets had I met the person.  Once you give an email address etc it's pretty easy for a would be stalker, anyway.

Try not to indulge in the "but every situation is different" when it comes to safety or the emotional risks to you and your family of dating married men or newly divorced men.  JMHO.

Absolutely agree.

Just think of it this way, would one mistake of you being too trusting be worth years of possible trauma and work to get back to any kind of normality?

It's a huge price to pay to trust a stranger and be wrong. Unfortunately, many women have done the same and have ended up assaulted or murdered.

It's just not worth it.

Love takes time, but so should trust.

[Unsure2021]

In my view, when a guy tells me he’s ‘intimidated’ by me, the BS detector goes off. This guy is a pretty desperate liar and very insecure. He’s trying to butter you up for sex with nonsense and manipulating you into trusting him with his tales of woe, which are likely made up. This is a major red flag that I’ve previously ignored, at my own detriment. Do yourself a favour and skip this dud. Look for a guy who will respect your boundaries (time, emotional space) and keep things light and fun. You don’t need to trauma-bond with a married dude. Lord help us.

[Tinydance]

I actually get the oversharing a lot and it does really annoy me. I thought men only did it to me because my job is a mental health and disability welfare worker and I studied those courses at university. I wasn't sure if they were actually oversharing for that reason or just because they want to. But I've had some bad things the minute I mention I'm a welfare worker. When I was still only studying a psychology degree at university, one guy from speed dating actually asked me on the date if I could help him and help diagnose his mental illnesses! I said I was only a student still and therefore couldn't diagnose anybody at all. Bit he spent a large portion  of the date telling me all these symptoms which he believed was OCD and narcissistic personality disorder and asking did I think he have them! Well he definitely had SOMETHING wrong with him lol I had one guy tell me a lot about his ex on the second date who had really bad Borderline Personality Disorder and her friends were on drugs and stabbed him with a knife! And I had an Uber driver tell me all about his personal problems for 45 minutes. Just stuff like that. I actually hate the over sharing but I thought people just did it to me because of my job.

I think it is a bit odd to tell personal stories from like 10-20 years ago on a first date. It's just unusual to bring it up because it's far in the past. And it's doubtful it's in context or in relation to anything because people don't usually talk about things that are so far in the past straight away on a date. Although your date was extremely long for only a first date. So I'm also not sure whether at some point, one runs out of just your generic small talk because the date us going for so long. Still there should be plenty of topics to discuss without sharing really private (and unnecessarily) things.

I don't really see anything else really wrong with him except I'm not sure if maybe he doesn't really have much filter and he just says everything he's thinking lol E.g. Someone might be on a first date and thinking the person is intimidating because they turned out to be better in person, more intelligent and so on. But just because you're thinking something in your mind doesn't mean you have to say it lol 

I think the most important thing though is not what we think, but what YOU think of this guy. Did you enjoy his company and find him attractive? Did you have a good feeling about him? In your gut do you feel like you want to see him again? If you weren't attracted to him or felt a spark then I think everything else is kind of irrelevant anyway.

 

[Hora]

@Tinydance Thank you for your reply. Interesting that you also get the oversharing! Yeah, I have that happen to me so often. I think it's because I'm a really good listener, and I'll actually engage with them and their stories because it doesn't make me feel uncomfortable. So I put people at ease and they feel like opening up. I guess not a bad skill to have overall although it can get a little awkward in the dating world.

That being said, his oversharing didn't come from running out of conversation. He actually got into it within the first hour of our date, and we touched other topics after that was covered. It was definitely a bit odd. 

What do I think of this guy? Funny because you're actually the first person to ask me this on this forum. I did enjoy his company and I did find him attractive. He is perhaps not as attractive as most men I've been with, but I am attracted to him. And yes, I would like to see him again. What I like about him is perhaps also the part that is a bit of a red flag: I find it really easy to talk to him. For example, I had some major difficulties with my supervisor at work yesterday, and when he texted in the evening and asked how I was doing, I just mentioned I had a bad day at work. He called right away to ask what happened, and was extremely attentive through all my tedious details of the situation and actually had some really fantastic advice on how to handle things. I didn't get the sense that he was doing it just to get in my pants, but that he actually did it because he really likes me and had empathy for my situation. So I hung up the phone actually feeling a lot better! 

On the other hand, I guess I'm a bit concerned about the oversharing perhaps covering up some mental health issue. I seem to attract people with mental health issues like bees to a flower.

[Hollyj]

1 hour ago, Hora said:

@Tinydance Thank you for your reply. Interesting that you also get the oversharing! Yeah, I have that happen to me so often. I think it's because I'm a really good listener, and I'll actually engage with them and their stories because it doesn't make me feel uncomfortable. So I put people at ease and they feel like opening up. I guess not a bad skill to have overall although it can get a little awkward in the dating world.

That being said, his oversharing didn't come from running out of conversation. He actually got into it within the first hour of our date, and we touched other topics after that was covered. It was definitely a bit odd. 

What do I think of this guy? Funny because you're actually the first person to ask me this on this forum. I did enjoy his company and I did find him attractive. He is perhaps not as attractive as most men I've been with, but I am attracted to him. And yes, I would like to see him again. What I like about him is perhaps also the part that is a bit of a red flag: I find it really easy to talk to him. For example, I had some major difficulties with my supervisor at work yesterday, and when he texted in the evening and asked how I was doing, I just mentioned I had a bad day at work. He called right away to ask what happened, and was extremely attentive through all my tedious details of the situation and actually had some really fantastic advice on how to handle things. I didn't get the sense that he was doing it just to get in my pants, but that he actually did it because he really likes me and had empathy for my situation. So I hung up the phone actually feeling a lot better! 

On the other hand, I guess I'm a bit concerned about the oversharing perhaps covering up some mental health issue. I seem to attract people with mental health issues like bees to a flower.

I am also a good listener, but when people overshare, I know there is a problem.  I do not find it intriguing, as it is a red flag!.  It is not normal behavior.  You don't seem to be listening to what people are saying.  

I have a feeling you will be back here next week with a similar story, as you do not want to change your unhealthy patterns.   

"On the other hand, I guess I'm a bit concerned about the oversharing perhaps covering up some mental health issue. I seem to attract people with mental health issues like bees to a flower."   They are not attracted to you, you are attracted to them.  Most people would cut this stuff off, yet you are fascinated and continue to engage.

[Batya33]

Hora -I actually asked very specific questions about what you thought of him based on your assessment of his job/career for example.  Maybe people focused on the other aspects because those were far more triggering, like your choice to invite him home, and your continuation of what seems to be a pattern.  Also  I presumed you were into him enough to want to see him again -seemed like a redundant question.  

[Hora]

@Hollyj You are absolutely right Holly, I am attracted to this type of people. I am aware of that, and it's something that I have actually discussed with my therapist. To be entirely honest, I feel a bit stuck in that sense. As I had mentioned somewhere else, there is a certain difficulty when it comes to dating in the sense that objectively you know what the right choices are. If I were project managing my love life (I'm a project manager), I would do a risk assessment and a quality plan etc. and based on all of these findings, decide on what the right choice would be. The issue with dating is the very annoying and complicated issue of attraction that just throws everything off! You can't force attraction. I have actually tried. My therapist encouraged me to do so. So, in the fall I met this man: decent conversation, interesting, good looking, great career, good manners, fantastic lover etc. He was a "good match". First date, no sparks. My therapist said: is there any reason not to see him again. I couldn't think of anything besides the sparks. So I saw him again, and again and again. Then he asked to be exclusive: I felt panicky, but no reason to say no. After 3 months I felt I was suffocating, but everything was perfect. He just didn't stimulate me. 

It's very very frustrating to not be attracted to "normal" men. So, I guess part of me is trying to find a balance if that makes sense. Go for slightly eccentric, definitely unconventional but not too crazy. Does that make sense?

[boltnrun]

I'm curious to know what it is about "separated" or "going through a divorce" that grabs your attention and is appealing and attractive to you.

Incidentally, was the "no 'sparks'" man also recently divorced, separated or going through a divorce?

[Hora]

@boltnrun Interesting question. Actually no the "no sparks" guy had been separated for 4 years, divorced since 3. 

[boltnrun]

35 minutes ago, Hora said:

@boltnrun Interesting question. Actually no the "no sparks" guy had been separated for 4 years, divorced since 3. 

So you tend to feel "attraction" to separated or "going through a divorce" men? And not to fully divorced men?

Something to explore, perhaps.

[Hollyj]

1 hour ago, Hora said:

@Hollyj You are absolutely right Holly, I am attracted to this type of people. I am aware of that, and it's something that I have actually discussed with my therapist. To be entirely honest, I feel a bit stuck in that sense. As I had mentioned somewhere else, there is a certain difficulty when it comes to dating in the sense that objectively you know what the right choices are. If I were project managing my love life (I'm a project manager), I would do a risk assessment and a quality plan etc. and based on all of these findings, decide on what the right choice would be. The issue with dating is the very annoying and complicated issue of attraction that just throws everything off! You can't force attraction. I have actually tried. My therapist encouraged me to do so. So, in the fall I met this man: decent conversation, interesting, good looking, great career, good manners, fantastic lover etc. He was a "good match". First date, no sparks. My therapist said: is there any reason not to see him again. I couldn't think of anything besides the sparks. So I saw him again, and again and again. Then he asked to be exclusive: I felt panicky, but no reason to say no. After 3 months I felt I was suffocating, but everything was perfect. He just didn't stimulate me. 

It's very very frustrating to not be attracted to "normal" men. So, I guess part of me is trying to find a balance if that makes sense. Go for slightly eccentric, definitely unconventional but not too crazy. Does that make sense?

So, you are not attracted to healthy and good men.   What is it that attracts you to drama and dysfunction?  What makes you believe you do not deserve better?   Have you gotten to the bottom of it?

What you described about the last two guys is not "eccentric," but  clear red flags.

I think you should stop dating until you get to a healthy place.  You are current;y on a hamster wheel.  If I am not mistaken, you have kids?  Bringing unavailable, weird men into your life is not good for them.

[Wiseman2]

Maybe unavailable men appeal to you because you're still enjoying the "kid in the candy store" phenomenon?

That way you have an escape loophole so you can continue just dating, no fear of a relationship with married guys, right? 

[Rose Mosse]

Maybe it's just very hard to find available or ok-to-date men. The ones that want to date you are kind of odd and the ones you don't want to go near are completely not for you. OP seems openminded so the men that match her openness and experience (life experience) just happen to be those who have also been down the same road. 

I'm not speaking for you, Hora. Just my own personal observation.

I'm curious about Batya's questions also about career and your response but I can't find the questions. Can you repost, Batya? 

[Batya33]

Oh she responded that she wasn't that focused on his prestige/status but rather his passion for his work.  I think you're confusing attraction to the person with attraction to the challenge/thrill of the chase.

 

[Hora]

Here is what I replied to Batya earlier

@Batya33 I really don't prioritize status and prestige. I actually really don't care about that. I do care quite a bit about dating someone that is very intelligent and passionate about things. I have gone on many many dates with men that didn't fit that criteria, and I just find them boring to talk to. I'm in that sense definitely what one would call a sapiophile, and I would choose attraction to someone's mind over attraction to their looks. I can compromise on looks but not on mind. And it just turns out that people who are intelligent and passionate mostly ended up doing something with their lives. 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Hora said:

Here is what I replied to Batya earlier

@Batya33 I really don't prioritize status and prestige. I actually really don't care about that. I do care quite a bit about dating someone that is very intelligent and passionate about things. I have gone on many many dates with men that didn't fit that criteria, and I just find them boring to talk to. I'm in that sense definitely what one would call a sapiophile, and I would choose attraction to someone's mind over attraction to their looks. I can compromise on looks but not on mind. And it just turns out that people who are intelligent and passionate mostly ended up doing something with their lives. 

Yes that is why I wrote what I wrote.  I've always been that way too.  

[Hora]

 

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

Maybe it's just very hard to find available or ok-to-date men. The ones that want to date you are kind of odd and the ones you don't want to go near are completely not for you. OP seems openminded so the men that match her openness and experience (life experience) just happen to be those who have also been down the same road. 

I'm not speaking for you, Hora. Just my own personal observation.

I'm curious about Batya's questions also about career and your response but I can't find the questions. Can you repost, Batya? 

Yes, that is one problem for sure. 

As I mentioned, I have done quite a bit of therapy. That was in the context of post-separation and trying to just navigate my new life, and I stuck to it for over a year. Then went back to see her for a few months after I broke up with the guy I had been seeing for a year. So, the therapist identified a few things:

1) That we are naturally attracted to what seems familiar to us, to what we grew up with. In my case, on the one hand a narcissistic alcoholic father, and on the other hand an emotionally unavailable depressed mother who basically abandoned the family when I was 15. I'm on very good terms with both my parents now. We mended things. I have aired my past grievances with them many years ago, and they have apologized to me for their failings as parents. 

2) I seem to have a bit of a saviour complex. I do emotional recycling. I find broken people and try to fix them. All of my close friends have had tremendous issues in their past. For example, my best friend is bi-polar. When we met in our early 20s, she was doing great. A year later, she had fallen into depression. She dropped out of school and wouldn't leave the house. I got her an apartment in my building, and took care of care for almost a year. I brought her groceries, walked her dog. I managed to convince the program director at the university to let her stay, and would bring her lecture notes, bring her essays back to school etc. I found her a psychiatrist, and drove her to therapy. It took many years for her to get back on her feet. But she is now doing really well: happily married, great career, two kids. She hasn't had any manic or depressive episodes in over a decade. 

Overall, I think I connect best with people that have dark pasts. I can relate to their experiences. And to some degree I think, I feel more comfortable being myself around them, to open up and disclose my own past to them. 

With my ex husband for example, it was impossible to ever mention anything about my childhood. He would have very little empathy for my past experiences. And thinking back, in the 18 years we were together, I actually barely shared anything with him about my life before we met. He never really knew who I was. 

So, now, when I meet someone who is open about themselves, and is interested in knowing certain things about me, that is incredibly appealing. 

The recently separated thing to be honest though I think is just coincidental. It's as Rose Mosse says: it's what's available. 

[Hora]

Oh, and just wanted to add @Hollyj: I don't introduce my kids to men. My dating life is separate from them. If someone becomes serious enough that we are considering moving in together, then the kids can get involved. 

[Jibralta]

41 minutes ago, Hora said:

With my ex husband for example, it was impossible to ever mention anything about my childhood. He would have very little empathy for my past experiences. And thinking back, in the 18 years we were together, I actually barely shared anything with him about my life before we met. He never really knew who I was. 

So, now, when I meet someone who is open about themselves, and is interested in knowing certain things about me, that is incredibly appealing. 

That's interesting. I think I was like that for a while. Like you, my childhood was rough, and most of my friends from that time period have 'darker pasts.' 

I went to tons of therapy when I was a teenager and, possibly as a result, tended to be very interested when other people demonstrated introspection. However, I gradually realized--especially with the onset of online dating--that oversharing was a ploy. I wrote about it in my journal, if you're' interested:

 

[Rose Mosse]

Thanks for reposting the question and answer, Hora and Batya. I think it makes sense if you're attracted to individuals with difficult history or want to help others but you know these things about yourself already so that's a huge plus. You also know how to check yourself if someone's past history or unresolved past isn't something you want to get into.

I personally have never found oversharing to be an issue, more is better than less, and I think being open about one's experiences or background is a given when you're getting to know someone intimately. I have a different take on this as I'd rather know a lot about someone early on than not enough. I'm not interested in paying lip service and also don't have much interest in the chase or hanging around someone superficially if I know from the start it's not going to work based on incompatibility or differences in outlook or beliefs. In the moments I've lost trust or interest in others, it's when I've discovered information later on that should have been disclosed eons earlier. I wonder whether this person thought about our meeting carefully or thinks some issues or topics are as important or worth sharing and if that person doesn't feel that way, what else do we disagree on or what else is that person capable of not sharing?

All of this within reason and dependent on the nature of the information, of course. 

 

[Hollyj]

9 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

Thanks for reposting the question and answer, Hora and Batya. I think it makes sense if you're attracted to individuals with difficult history or want to help others but you know these things about yourself already so that's a huge plus. You also know how to check yourself if someone's past history or unresolved past isn't something you want to get into.

I personally have never found oversharing to be an issue, more is better than less, and I think being open about one's experiences or background is a given when you're getting to know someone intimately. I have a different take on this as I'd rather know a lot about someone early on than not enough. I'm not interested in paying lip service and also don't have much interest in the chase or hanging around someone superficially if I know from the start it's not going to work based on incompatibility or differences in outlook or beliefs. In the moments I've lost trust or interest in others, it's when I've discovered information later on that should have been disclosed eons earlier. I wonder whether this person thought about our meeting carefully or thinks some issues or topics are as important or worth sharing and if that person doesn't feel that way, what else do we disagree on or what else is that person capable of not sharing?

All of this within reason and dependent on the nature of the information, of course. 

 

But, do want to hear their life story, and a lot of intimate issues on the first meet? 

I also apply this to new friends, as I have learned that there will be a boatload of problems in the future.  The result, the friendship has a short life.   I stay away from people who overshare early on. 

[Rose Mosse]

3 minutes ago, Hollyj said:

But, do want to hear their life story, and a lot of intimate issues on the first meet? 

I also apply this to new friends, as I have learned that there will be a boatload of problems in the future.  The result, the friendship has a short life.   I stay away from people who overshare early on. 

Agree. Not the first meet. I think a first meet is always lighthearted and more to see if there is physical chemistry and how that person responds. There shouldn't be anything too serious in the first meet at all.

[Hollyj]

1 minute ago, Rose Mosse said:

Agree. Not the first meet. I think a first meet is always lighthearted and more to see if there is physical chemistry and how that person responds. There shouldn't be anything too serious in the first meet at all.

I totally run from these folks.   There is always so much drama and they try to suck you in.   

[Batya33]

15 minutes ago, Hollyj said:

But, do want to hear their life story, and a lot of intimate issues on the first meet? 

I also apply this to new friends, as I have learned that there will be a boatload of problems in the future.  The result, the friendship has a short life.   I stay away from people who overshare early on. 

Yes it shows they lack boundaries and earlier is not necessarily better especially in romance.  I think getting to know someone over time -unwrapping a layered package is much better.  Also people who overshare tend to be less discreet with their own information -and yours.  I used to be overly chatty -reaction to being insecure/approval seeking and realized when I was more reserved about what I shared/less chatty, people shared more with me and trusted me more.