Which one of us is the problem?

[Kira L]

Sorry this is happening. basically it sounds like you're incompatible. Why is he dating/living with you if he has no interest in sex with you? What were things like before you moved in together? It doesn't matter what your or his family thinks, only how comfortable you fell with him and this relationship.

 

Stop smothering and crowding him with the 'tickle baths' etc. people need personal space and none of that is erotic or affectionate, nor is running 'around the room making crazy faces'. It's not kindergarten.

 

Get out of the rut of domestic drudgery and plan exciting interesting things. Get more involved outside of the relationship/home with friends, family, career, courses, classes, interests and hobbies. Volunteer, join some groups and clubs. Get in shape and update your clothes, hair, look etc. be out of the house much more on your own.

 

Whether you stay together or part ways becoming your own person and toning down the high-school behavior with help any relationship you're in. Learn to be a responsible, yet loving partner.

 

I know, I definitely need to get out there and have my own life. I'll put that on priority.

I don't think that's a fair assessment of my behavior though, a ton of people are really goofy. It's not immature, my dad is goofy all the time because he's just a happy, silly guy. Also, Ryan LOVES being pampered. I do all that stuff for him because he's like a puppy, always begging for me pet him lol. He'll often take his shirt off and lay on me so I can give him back scratches.

[Kira L]

I want to clarify -I really disliked -and still do the chorus of "you just know" when someone is "the one". Because some people do, good for them, some people don't "just know" but with their head and heart involved and sometimes some soul searching - they come to that decision and when they do it's just as strong and solid and true as the "just know" crowd.

 

It's nice to hear from a non-"you just know" person. I feel like everyone is so quick to push an aggressive opinion based on one idea or fact. You've come to the conclusion that I should try going on my own like everyone else has, but it's so clear you really understand where I'm coming from, and have had enough experience to know how complicated it can be. One single problem like dependence doesn't really affect us seriously. My lack of social life, yes, but I'm working hard on that. That's the point, nothing is hard and fast, I could change myself for the better and come around to him once I'm not hardwired to look for the negative. It doesn't always have to either be perfect or nothing. I just really appreciate you looking at everything as a whole and giving your educated opinion :) Some of these responses seem angrier rather than helpful/constructive, haha.

[Hollyj]

I think that it seems "angrier" because it is hitting a nerve. The truth can suck. He supports you financially and does many thing for you. This is dependence. Like it or not.

[Kira L]

I think that it seems "angrier" because it is hitting a nerve. The truth can suck.

 

No... it's things like that person saying "It's not kindergarten" in reference to me liking silliness. As I said, Batya33 was telling me to leave too. She just gave a thorough and helpful explanation and came from a very reasonable place. "You should try this and see how you feel, it can be hard and you don't always know for sure" instead of "This relationship sucks. Get out now and stop wasting his time." It's a generally happy, respectful, loving relationship, it's not like I'm "using him". He means the world to me. I'm totally ok with people saying we should break up, but not for trivial reasons. I'm sincerely wishing I didn't mention my dependence, because it's not a big deal, he ENJOYS doing those things for me. It makes him feel proud and genuinely happy to help me, so please just move on from the dependence issue. He's one of those guys that likes to show his affection in his helpfulness. It's not creating an unhealthy dynamic because it works for US. That's what I'm talking about, you're just taking it at face value. It's not like I don't plan to learn how to do these things as I get older, I'm just getting there slower than most. I can also live off of the money I make, just not in at all as much excess as I do now.

[smackie9]

To a fault you have become dependent on him for things...but who doesn't do that in a relationship? He's not lazy, I think he's on the spectrum...an aspie possibly. If you know anything about autism, there is a symptom of not knowing social cues, mimicking emotions, being clueless how to feel or react, so interaction is awkward or non existent. This could be why he doesn't do those light touches, or do things because he wants to...he just doesn't know what they are because he doesn't feel it. So you can be rest assured this has nothing to do with you, this is the way he is. You are going to have to live with it if you insist on staying in a relationship with him.

[MissCanuck]

I'm sincerely wishing I didn't mention my dependence, because it's not a big deal, he ENJOYS doing those things for me. It makes him feel proud and genuinely happy to help me, so please just move on from the dependence issue. He's one of those guys that likes to show his affection in his helpfulness. It's not creating an unhealthy dynamic because it works for US.

 

With respect, I have to disagree that it works well for you as a couple.

 

You cited this as among the reasons you are afraid to leave him. That doesn't suggest it's as great a set-up as you're now claiming. I don't mean that it doesn't work on a surface-level day-to-day basis, and that he doesn't want to play this role within your relationship. However, it's evidently not a positive aspect of your union if you yourself named it as a factor that is keeping you in an otherwise unsatisfying relationship.

 

Just something to chew on.

[boltnrun]

If he was as spontaneous as you he wouldn't be able to pay the bills and do your taxes.

 

Decide what's more important: having someone who's a good guy and who takes care of the bills and your chores, or someone who won't do those things for you but will run around with you making silly faces, hug on you and drop everything to go somewhere on a whim.

[Kira L]

You cited this as among the reasons you are afraid to leave him.

 

I addressed that in an earlier response - that's not actually a reason I'm not leaving him, I misspoke there. I was complaining about being scared, but the real reason I don't want to leave is because I love him so crazy much. It's just not usually "spark love" or whatever you'd call that magic feeling.

[Kira L]

**CHANGING SUBJECT**

 

I'm going to do a new question, now that I know what I'm asking. Just ignore everything else, haha I said way more than needed to be addressed in my post. I just got upset and posted all the negatives with no positives. The relationship really isn't in as bad of a spot as I made it sound.

 

1. How much/often do you guys think you should feel the spark with the person you plan to marry?

 

2. How much of an impact do you think having our own friends would make on the health of the relationship? Could it really be a reason it's not working as well as I'd hoped?

[Wiseman2]

Have you told him what you want from the relationship, affection, romance and sex? What things do you do to plan romantic date nights and interesting things to do?

He's one of those guys that likes to show his affection in his helpfulness.

[Hollyj]

No... it's things like that person saying "It's not kindergarten" in reference to me liking silliness. As I said, Batya33 was telling me to leave too. She just gave a thorough and helpful explanation and came from a very reasonable place. "You should try this and see how you feel, it can be hard and you don't always know for sure" instead of "This relationship sucks. Get out now and stop wasting his time." It's a generally happy, respectful, loving relationship, it's not like I'm "using him". He means the world to me. I'm totally ok with people saying we should break up, but not for trivial reasons. I'm sincerely wishing I didn't mention my dependence, because it's not a big deal, he ENJOYS doing those things for me. It makes him feel proud and genuinely happy to help me, so please just move on from the dependence issue. He's one of those guys that likes to show his affection in his helpfulness. It's not creating an unhealthy dynamic because it works for US. That's what I'm talking about, you're just taking it at face value. It's not like I don't plan to learn how to do these things as I get older, I'm just getting there slower than most. I can also live off of the money I make, just not in at all as much excess as I do now.

 

They are not trivial reasons. You can both be fantastic people, but not be compatible, emotionally and physically. It does not work for you, or you would not have created this thread. You have not accepted the proposal due to your concerns, and stated, "but I don't know if I'll ever be able to get rid of this nagging feeling. I'm missing the basic things, like, I have to make myself feel excited about the idea of marrying him someday. I'm not usually extremely excited to be with him, or proud of my choice in a permanent partner. As in, I never look at him and think "That's MY guy!!"," This is serious stuff! I think your fear of being independent is clouding your judgement.

[Gary Snyder]

What you are complaining about is a man who is not giving you enough affection.

 

Men have to kiss the girl once a week like they did the first time. They have to give her that special hug from behind. And he has to initiate these things. He's not very gracious either.

 

Mark my words: Women need affection to stay in love with a man.

 

Plus, he's not much fun. I was talking with a woman a few weeks ago who was put off by dating........she was describing the guys she talked to.......about how they like to play golf, collect stamps.......I said, "The problem is, they are boring". She said, "Exactly!" This guy sounds like an army drill Sargent without the ordering around part. One of women's themes songs is "Girls just Want To Have Fun".

 

2. How much of an impact do you think having our own friends would make on the health of the relationship? Could it really be a reason it's not working as well as I'd hoped?

 

All that said, you can't expect your partner to be your entire world (get some friends, interests outside of your relationship), and I have seen worse. He does not have any major problems that I can tell - he's just not the perfect man. Nobody is perfect. He's just not the one initiating the affection. Some relationships are much worse, the man rejects the woman's advances.

 

Could you do better than him? If you are hot and meet a lot of men, possibly. But it's still going to be a search for a needle in a haystack.

 

Finally, I think your relationship is past the honeymoon stage. Yet, you love him very much. He's doing enough right and not too much bad, he owns your heart. You are not going anywhere.

[Hollyj]

**CHANGING SUBJECT**

 

I'm going to do a new question, now that I know what I'm asking. Just ignore everything else, haha I said way more than needed to be addressed in my post. I just got upset and posted all the negatives with no positives. The relationship really isn't in as bad of a spot as I made it sound.

 

1. How much/often do you guys think you should feel the spark with the person you plan to marry?

 

2. How much of an impact do you think having our own friends would make on the health of the relationship? Could it really be a reason it's not working as well as I'd hoped?

 

There should certainly be a spark now. You are not even married yet.

 

You should have friends to have a healthy balance, whether or not you have a partner. You and a partner should have some separate interests.

[tsantos]

There are many women who freak out when they meet Mr. perfect. Instead of enjoying him, they look for imperfections. Part of the reason they seek imperfections is because they obsess about their own imperfections. Ultimately, they may be afraid Mr. perfect will discover her imperfections and leave. As a result, she has to find something wrong with him. That’s the behavior of a saboteur.

 

Secondly, have you ever asked him about his needs? I have not heard you once mention what he needs. You assume the things you do are fulfilling for him. One of the toughest things for women is to sit down and ask a man if he is fulfilled in the relationship. Ask him what he needs. You have to do that without interrupting him. Nor can you be defensive. Just listen. If you don’t understand something, ask questions. Then shut up and listen. You don’t get to tell him what he should want or need.

 

Third, the most successful relationships are built on mutual values. Integrity is number one. Do the 2 of you value integrity the same way? If not, the relationship will have many problems. Once you understand if integrity is mutual, you need to see if the way you value communication is similar. How do you want to raise and educate your children? Where do you want to live? How transparent are you? What are your philosophies about mental and physical health? How do you value personal development? Do you value personal development? What about travel? Are you interested in the things he thinks about? Are you capable of having conversations about those things?

 

If you understand there are things you will be better at, like walking up to strangers, you can leverage one another’s strengths. Aside from that, instead of you complaining about him touching you, why aren’t you giving him what you want? That means you touch and kiss him and give the affection you want. What’s wrong with you initiating sex? Sex is a human desire. Both are responsible for it. You are making yourself a victim when you are just as responsible for getting what you want. If you can’t give what you want, you don’t deserve it.

 

Also, it’s unhealthy to buy into things that are not true, like the person you are with will drive you up the wall. Believing that will only create a self fulfilling prophecy. It sounds like you have no idea how to have a relationship. You believe what you see in movies is a relationship. That will cause you to miss the enjoyment you have in your relationship.

 

Perhaps you are seeking excitement to avoid looking at yourself. Have you considered doing some kind of transformational workshop? You may need to discover why you believe you have so many flaws.

[tsantos]

Kira L, Did you grow up with both parents? Did you grow up in a home with drama? Which of your parents played victim?

[Batya33]

"Finally, I think your relationship is past the honeymoon stage. Yet, you love him very much. He's doing enough right and not too much bad, he owns your heart. You are not going anywhere."

 

My sense is there never was a honeymoon stage. OP watch the season of Sex and the City when Carrie is with Aidan and talks about the "za za za zoom"

[MissCanuck]

How much/often do you guys think you should feel the spark with the person you plan to marry?

 

This depends entirely on what sort of marriage you seek, OP.

 

Based on your description of the type of guy you would like, you are not going to have that type of marriage with your current boyfriend. You are currently not that happy, even though you respect him as a person. He is who he is. You want something that is out of line with the person he truly is.

[Hollyj]

There are many women who freak out when they meet Mr. perfect. Instead of enjoying him, they look for imperfections. Part of the reason they seek imperfections is because they obsess about their own imperfections. Ultimately, they may be afraid Mr. perfect will discover her imperfections and leave. As a result, she has to find something wrong with him. That’s the behavior of a saboteur.

 

Secondly, have you ever asked him about his needs? I have not heard you once mention what he needs. You assume the things you do are fulfilling for him. One of the toughest things for women is to sit down and ask a man if he is fulfilled in the relationship. Ask him what he needs. You have to do that without interrupting him. Nor can you be defensive. Just listen. If you don’t understand something, ask questions. Then shut up and listen. You don’t get to tell him what he should want or need.

 

Third, the most successful relationships are built on mutual values. Integrity is number one. Do the 2 of you value integrity the same way? If not, the relationship will have many problems. Once you understand if integrity is mutual, you need to see if the way you value communication is similar. How do you want to raise and educate your children? Where do you want to live? How transparent are you? What are your philosophies about mental and physical health? How do you value personal development? Do you value personal development? What about travel? Are you interested in the things he thinks about? Are you capable of having conversations about those things?

 

If you understand there are things you will be better at, like walking up to strangers, you can leverage one another’s strengths. Aside from that, instead of you complaining about him touching you, why aren’t you giving him what you want? That means you touch and kiss him and give the affection you want. What’s wrong with you initiating sex? Sex is a human desire. Both are responsible for it. You are making yourself a victim when you are just as responsible for getting what you want. If you can’t give what you want, you don’t deserve it.

 

Also, it’s unhealthy to buy into things that are not true, like the person you are with will drive you up the wall. Believing that will only create a self fulfilling prophecy. It sounds like you have no idea how to have a relationship. You believe what you see in movies is a relationship. That will cause you to miss the enjoyment you have in your relationship.

 

Perhaps you are seeking excitement to avoid looking at yourself. Have you considered doing some kind of transformational workshop? You may need to discover why you believe you have so many flaws.

 

She said he is robotic, never initiates sex and is not affectionate. This would not work for me, nor the majority of women.. Relationships do require passion to work.

[Wiseman2]

Parent-child relationships like this invariable kill the romance. Read up on that. No one is right or wrong. He's simply not that attracted to you and you need more attention/affection that he volunteers.

[reinventmyself]

Taxes for the business I own, not normal taxes. He basically manages my business. My dependency on him isn't a giant concern though, I know I could learn how to do whatever is necessary. I was more complaining than giving that as a real reason not to leave - I am NOT staying with him because of that at all. I'm not using him, I'm staying because I care DEEPLY for him - all that other stuff is just me being scared. For the most part, I truly do want to stay because he's so wonderful in so many ways. I've even told him I would trade everything he does for me to have more affection and energy in the relationship, which is true.

 

I can't help but wonder, if you were to close your eyes and imagine that you had employment that compensated you well, you were savvy with finances and trusted that you could stand on your two feet, alone, if you would still feel the same way.

 

AND you can have all of the above and still care DEEPLY for this man and at the same time recognize that it's possible you two are not an ideal match for each other. Life experiences will teach you that you can love someone and at the same time know that you aren't meant to be together. You don't have to wait long enough to despise someone to have permission to leave them.

 

I also think you might be leaning too much on the possibility you are far too obsessive and dramatic and that might be the only problem here. It's pretty typical when not wanting to face some hard truths, we tend to think we are just a little crazy instead. I mean, you'd have to be crazy to want to leave such a great guy, right? Especially when everyone is in your ear telling you the same thing. Am I close?

 

It's a great way to avoid acting on it and doing the hard thing.

[Batya33]

I can't help but wonder, if you were to close your eyes and imagine that you had employment that compensated you well, you were savvy with finances and trusted that you could stand on your two feet, alone, if you would still feel the same way.

 

AND you can have all of the above and still care DEEPLY for this man and at the same time recognize that it's possible you two are not an ideal match for each other. Life experiences will teach you that you can love someone and at the same time know that you aren't meant to be together. You don't have to wait long enough to despise someone to have permission to leave them.

 

I also think you might be leaning too much on the possibility you are far too obsessive and dramatic and that might be the only problem here. It's pretty typical when not wanting to face some hard truths, we tend to think we are just a little crazy instead. I mean, you'd have to be crazy to want to leave such a great guy, right? Especially when everyone is in your ear telling you the same thing. Am I close?

 

It's a great way to avoid acting on it and doing the hard thing.

 

The late Dr. Joy Browne used to ask the people who called into her radio program with issues like this : "if you won the lottery tomorrow would you stay or would you go." I agree with reinvent - you build up this whole straw man argument "anyone would be crazy to leave such a great guy" - because certain friends feel like "good men" are scarce and are trying to keep you from touching the hot stove by leaving a "good man". And for those who settle for each other it can work just fine -if both people settle and want marriage for reasons other than wanting a relationship that involves chemistry and passion as well as all the other good stuff. I really don't know couples who each settle -usually one settles and the other accepts that to win the prize of their partner they have to accept that they love their partner much more and in the way one should than vice versa. Those types often will try to convince the settling partner why they are so right together, etc and paint pictures of suburbia, barbecues, kids on the swing set in the backyard. They're not wrong just .... settling.

 

And the reverse is not true -you don't have to get a "bad boy" who excites you to fall in love with you and propose. Once you become the right person you will find a person who is a good person, a person of integrity and character who will keep you on your toes in all the good ways, the fun ways, who you will want to kiss and hold hands with and who will know when you're pacing around the house while on the phone seemingly looking for something that it's your hair scrunchie you're missing and he will silently hand it to you so as not to disturb your call and save your hair (true story).

[Kira L]

Secondly, have you ever asked him about his needs? I have not heard you once mention what he needs.

 

Aside from that, instead of you complaining about him touching you, why aren’t you giving him what you want? That means you touch and kiss him and give the affection you want. What’s wrong with you initiating sex? Sex is a human desire. Both are responsible for it. You are making yourself a victim when you are just as responsible for getting what you want. If you can’t give what you want, you don’t deserve it.

 

Lots of good points, thank you :) Just to address these - I do ask him what he wants from me pretty often, he always insists he's really happy and believes I think too negatively of myself. He's a simple guy without many needs, haha since he's not super emotional he's also happy with pretty little in a relationship. And of COURSE I initiate sex lol, I initiate it every few nights, basically as often as I know he's open to it. That's just how it works, initiation of that is one of my responsibilities in the relationship. He enjoys it, he's just not dying for it all the time like me x) He's probably way better at it than I am though, haha.

[Kira L]

reinventmyself and Batya33, I think what you guys are saying must be right because it makes me feel sick to read it, haha. It does feel like, "How could I possibly leave such a great guy". I just saw him for lunch though, and something interesting happened - the reason I'm going back and forth back and forth back and forth into oblivion is because it's extreme in each direction, how I react to his behavior. For stretches of time, he'd be in that sleepy mood, not very affectionate or fun. And I'd get in recurring crying fits, feeling like I was in a dead end relationship. He'd usually be "blah" on weekdays when he was tired, then come alive on weekends (throwing me into constant emotional torment, haha). But recently he's been in the longest/most consistent stretch of the opposite behavior. He's been much more attentive, happy, and silly, which is what makes me slam the breaks and say "Hey I think I'm totally in it now!" I asked him about his change of mood over the past few weeks, and he said he's been less stressed out lately, that work has been going well, etc. He just reflects how he feels 100%, so he sinks low when his professional life isn't going the way he wants. He's been in a bad financial spot for a few months (he actually owes me about $6,000 lol), but now things are much better. Maybe my problem with him isn't that he's robot-y, maybe it's that he takes life more seriously than I do - gets upset easily.

 

That's why this is the most impossible thing ever - if he was his happy self all the time, I would actually be really excited for our future. The reason it's been pretty sparkless since the beginning, is because he's been doing this back and forth thing since then. So every time things are going well, I'm thinking about when they weren't and scared for when it'll be like that again. But over the years, the sad times are steadily lessening; he's been in longer happy moods and shorter sleepy ones. And we're finding things that get him in a fun mood, like camping and nature adventures. We both tend to stay home and watch TV by ourselves most nights, which puts his flame out pretty quick I think. It seems to me that there's a real chance he's getting older and further maturing, both of us realizing what's important in life. That just because we have a lot of work to finish doesn't mean it's a big waste of time to do something FUN, like hanging out with friends or going on a hike. We're both super easily stressed, and we both know we need to take action to correct those things. I'm just perpetually confused because right here, right now, I'm totally excited to be with him. Yet yesterday (when he was mad about something that happened at work) I aggressively resented him. Normally I'd think I shouldn't have feelings that negative towards him, but I've been building them up for all this time, it's hard not to feel like every little detail of our relationship is a HUGE FREAKING DEAL. I'm not sure what my point is, haha maybe that there are too many problems we have to fix with our own selves to be able to assess whether we work together.

 

I've been looking at free yoga classes by the way, I figure that's a good place to start to go look for a girl-friend or two :) However long this deliberation takes, I won't sit quietly through it anymore! Gotta take action!

[Batya33]

"That's why this is the most impossible thing ever - if he was his happy self all the time, I would actually be really excited for our future"

 

No that doesn't make it impossible. It makes it obvious. Not fair to only want to be with someone when they act in a particular way. It's a package deal. And that's what I mean about being solid and reasonably secure -that changes in mood do not freak you out or rock you to the core - sure, they might be annoying, disappointing, boring, etc - but the underlying love, the commitment, the solidity - those changes have no impact on that and won't trigger this extreme doubt, freak out, panic. Because when you love the person flaws and warts and all those times are just blips on the radar mostly with rare exception. Rare exception -of course a person for example can become a drug addict and become violent - and then you're entitled to say 'nope, not the person I married, either get help or I'm out of here" - but "for better or for worse" means you accept the person not just aspects of him, you love the person not just aspects of him.

 

I used to say to my friends when I was with Mr. Right For Now/Right on Paper "but I was so excited to be with him today!!! I was so sure!!! I would have eloped with him today had he asked!!!" but in the back of my mind I knew I didn't feel secure that this feeling of rightness had a solid foundation - I wanted it to last but knew inevitably that eventually I'd wake up out of the rightness fog and feel again strongly doubtful, shook to the core, not sure.

 

Do you want kids? Because kids need stability - kids need to see that when their parents argue that they still are committed to each other, still love each other - still are a team - and they sense -they know when that consistency is not there. And it's so scary and unfair to the child. When my son learned the word "divorce" he'd say, mistakenly "divide" "are you and daddy ever going to get divided?" He's right -divorce is dividing. And every time you tell yourself "right here right now I'm excited to be with him" you're also admitting "and I can't say with reasonable security that I'll feel like this tomorrow, next month, next year, at our wedding". No guarantees of course -we all know that so dont' go there -I'm talking about feeling secure that you most probably (not guaranteed) will be sure about him and the relationship now AND IN THE FUTURE. It's easy peasy to feel temporarily excited - I mean sure, he's his happy self, you've just gone to the precipice of almost ending the relationship and all of a sudden you swing back to "wait!!! I DO love him and I'm excited to be with him!". That's all well and good. It's not the stuff that long term commitment is made of.

[reinventmyself]

He's currently in the middle of the longest stretch ever of him being on the good side? Whaaat??

If that's the case and you are both happily in midst of it all, then why the troubled post?