Vacation Situation

[katrina1980]

I don't think it's too harsh. Part of adulting is learning to filter and keep the immature feelings to oneself when from your partner's perspective she's dealing with basically the top priority in her life, her child. At those times if you want a relationship with that person you take a deep breath, respond in a mature way and if you later realize you feel resentful or badly and can't deal with it you decide if you can accept what you cannot change -she has a child who comes first in exactly this type of situation - and if you can't the answer may be to walk away and let your partner find someone who can handle being with a woman with a young child especially.

 

Exactly!! The operative word there is "learning."

 

Op had never been faced with being in this position before, and therefore had not yet "learned" how to properly react to it. He allowed his emotions and anxieties to drive the ship. To some people, knowing this stuff is instinctive, to others not so much. They have to learn it, often times by making mistakes.

 

That is precisely why he chose to create this thread, to determine if he was wrong. Which after reading these responses, has since determined he was --- he has learned it's wrong and now going forward, will not make that mistake again.

 

That's why I thought some responses were a bit harsh. You expected him to already know, to already have "learned" this, but often times we have to make the mistake before we learn from it, and we shouldn't be criticized or judged for that, imo.

[Batya33]

Bolded, exactly!! The operative word there is "learning."

 

Op had never been faced with being in this position before, and therefore had not yet "learned" how to property react to it. He allowed his emotional and anxieties to drive the ship.

 

That is precisely why he chose to create this thread, to determine if he was wrong. Which has since discovered he was --- he learned it's wrong and not going forward, will not make that mistake again.

 

That's why I thought some responses were a bit harsh. You expected him to already know, to already have "learned" this, but often times we have to make the mistake before we learn from it.

 

I disagree that it is unusual to be faced with a situation where your partner has to make her top priority in life... a priority. It's a different situation but the same basic values that are common to mature adult relationships -dealing with situations where it's not all about you and instead about something very important to your partner that might annoy/inconvenience/make you feel insecure. And perhaps she feels the rockiness is because he can't deal in general with that basic relationship concept and this was just another iteration. Would be interesting to know that.

 

I'd never been in the situation of a boyfriend cancelling a date because his ex girlfriend's water broke. It would have been horrible of me to burden him with my "oohhhh this is all new to me" when he's about to be a daddy. I'd never been in the situation of my husband losing a parent who he loved to the moon and back - which included me having to put my basic needs dead last, which included tons of solo parenting of 3-4 year old at unpredictable times, which included never having seen him in that kind of grief, for example. It's all part of relationships -unpredictable situations and crises and it comes back to -maturity, respect, reliability - so that it really doesn't matter what the exact situation is - with rare exception -but if you love and trust your partner your first desire is to step up to the plate, not focus on "but what about ME" and "this is disrespectful to ME". And if that's your first inclination it's highly unlikely you're going to allow your anxieties to "drive the ship" and if you feel that coming to the surface you'll resist the urge in favor of being there for your partner.

[katrina1980]

LOL, well I don't wish to argue with you Bat, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

[Batya33]

LOL, well I don't wish to argue with you Bat, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

 

Of course - I think I relate so much to his girlfriend because of the mom thing. I basically lost a friend years ago because I put my son's needs first. Oh well. But I would feel the same if it had to do with a crucial work situation that required a one hour conference call during our planned vacation, if my SO knew how important my career was to me.

[katrina1980]

Of course - I think I relate so much to his girlfriend because of the mom thing. I basically lost a friend years ago because I put my son's needs first. Oh well. But I would feel the same if it had to do with a crucial work situation that required a one hour conference call during our planned vacation, if my SO knew how important my career was to me.

 

I figured that Bat about the mom thing. I won't judge you for that, since you've acknowledged it.

 

We all have our own particular sensitivities based on our own life experiences, no doubt I have mine, and this is one of yours, I totally get that!

[reinventmyself]

I disagree that it is unusual to be faced with a situation where your partner has to make her top priority in life... a priority. It's a different situation but the same basic values that are common to mature adult relationships -dealing with situations where it's not all about you and instead about something very important to your partner that might annoy/inconvenience/make you feel insecure. And perhaps she feels the rockiness is because he can't deal in general with that basic relationship concept and this was just another iteration. Would be interesting to know that.

 

I'd never been in the situation of a boyfriend cancelling a date because his ex girlfriend's water broke. It would have been horrible of me to burden him with my "oohhhh this is all new to me" when he's about to be a daddy. I'd never been in the situation of my husband losing a parent who he loved to the moon and back - which included me having to put my basic needs dead last, which included tons of solo parenting of 3-4 year old at unpredictable times, which included never having seen him in that kind of grief, for example. It's all part of relationships -unpredictable situations and crises and it comes back to -maturity, respect, reliability - so that it really doesn't matter what the exact situation is - with rare exception -but if you love and trust your partner your first desire is to step up to the plate, not focus on "but what about ME" and "this is disrespectful to ME". And if that's your first inclination it's highly unlikely you're going to allow your anxieties to "drive the ship" and if you feel that coming to the surface you'll resist the urge in favor of being there for your partner.

Great response, Batya

[Healthaddict]

Hi guys, just head to clarify some things about the situation. 1. This entire conversation was done through texting, more importantly it should’ve been discussed in person but she and I had obligations where we couldn’t see each other and she does not like talking on the phone. 2. This isn’t an instance where I’ve put myself before the child before, I’ve never done that, and I don’t believe that is right. I’m not disagreeing with people on here saying it’s wrong to put yourself before the child. I know this. 3. The vacation wasn’t just because things were rocky. We had been going on 2 months that were good/great leading up to the vacation since we had our falling out. The vacation was supposed to be fun, but along with that, I figured it was also part of the road of things smoothing our again even more. That falling out was based on something disrespectful she did in front of me (I won’t go into detail here) that triggered an initial emotional response from me that upset me. I didn’t do anything crazy but I did raise my voice some and I learned from that incident. I was hurt, but I should’ve managed myself more appropriately. She has an issue of commitment in a relationship and decided to stay at her family’s for a week. During this time, we couldn’t come to a compromise because we both were standing up for 2 different things. Her action/my reaction. We took some time to ourselves, and learned from it, and have had a really good past 2 months. I’ve never been able to take her to the beach in our relarionship(I was fortunate to get a well paying job this year) and I was really excited to take her. We always talked about it. 4. She gave me the ultimatum if I didn’t let her see her kid with the dad while we were down there, I would lose her and the boy for good. Then asked, “So what’s it going to be?” Then went on to say we should just go down as friends, and she would pay for her half of things. She clearly was mad and emotions run high, and things that aren’t normally said were said.

[Batya33]

I figured that Bat about the mom thing. I won't judge you for that, since you've acknowledged it.

 

We all have our own particular sensitivities based on our own life experiences, no doubt I have mine, and this is one of yours, I totally get that!

 

No -I wrote it's not just the mom thing. I was that way about making my career a priority before I was a mom -and some men couldn't hack it (meaning keeping plans tentative during the week, etc). I do think there are rare cases where parents of young kids especially get why his reaction was so problematic more than those who are not parents/don't have responsibility for a young child.

[katrina1980]

 

Of course - I think I relate so much to his girlfriend because of the mom thing.

 

Sorry my post about the mom thing was in response to this.^

[Batya33]

Thanks for the additional information. My guess is she sees this as another instance of you losing your temper when you feel "disrespected". I don't know what the first instance was and perhaps you were perfectly justified in your feelings that time but it sounds like she's seeing a pattern of you acting out when you feel disrespected in a way that is inappropriate.

 

Why are you with her and letting her child get attached to you if she has an "issue with commitment" to you? What future did you see given that issue?

[nutbrownhare]

Unfortunately, if you're dating someone who has a child from a previous relationship - the child, along with the previous partner, is part of the package. This means that you either need to learn to cope with being put on the back burner from time to time, or you realise that this isn't what you want and you need to find a different partner. I get that in the scenario you describe, it would have been particularly poignant to see your girlfriend playing "Happy Families" with her ex and their child and, unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about it. You can rationalise it by telling yourself that it was only for an hour, but if you'd particularly been looking for some meaningful, relaxing time with her - that would have put a bit of a bomb under it because you'd have found it so upsetting.

 

There is no right or wrong here. You need to decide whether your feelings for her are strong enough to weather storms like this, or whether your priority is to have a relationship where you can both start from scratch and there are no flash-backs to previous relationships.

 

I have to say that these days I wouldn't contemplate having a relationship with someone who still had young children - for a whole variety of reasons - though I've had some wonderful experiences with partners' children over the years. That's my decision based on experience - now you need to decide what your priorities are.

[bluecastle]

This sounds awfully volatile, I have to say.

 

One thing, among many, that I can't help but pick up on in your last post is the phrase "she has an issue of commitment in a relationship." Curious phrase, since she has been in a committed relationship with you for two years.

 

Makes me wonder how much you trust her commitment level to you, how long that's been simmering, how much of this relationship you've spent wondering if she's really "in it" or still on the fence. Some cursory math on things (2 year relationship with you plus 3 year old child with someone else) makes me wonder if the foundation here wasn't a bit fraught—concerns on your part about whether or not she was "ready," professions on her part about past hurt, fears of getting into something, and so on.

 

Another thing: While you're vague about whatever happened two months ago, the narrative arc is startlingly similar to what's happening now. She did "something disrespectful" that triggered "an initial emotional response," but you "learned from that incident." I get that the first incident could very well be something blatantly disrespectful—still, patterns are patterns, and a pattern here is that emotions tend to run very high between you two, with something like mature communication taking place in the wake of explosions rather than being the thing that, you know, keeps the explosions at bay.

 

And finally: an ultimatum over text? That's straight out of the Passive Aggressive handbook—a kind of lose-lose trap that doesn't do anyone any favors. Almost sounds like she's baiting you to break up, since if she felt you're genuinely getting in the way of her relationship with her child she could—and she should—just cut it off clean and surgically. So while I very much think she's in the right for wanting to see her child as much as possible, and for making sure she has a cordial relationship with her ex and coparent, I can't help but see an appetite for drama on her end that matches your own.

 

Guess all I'm saying is this seems to be how you two "work"—something you're still trying to "work out" and get "back on track," which is why the vacation carried that extra pressure in your mind. Might be worth using this whole moment to do some deep thinking on whether this partnership is really working out—if it's bringing out the best in both of you, you know?

[Rose Mosse]

Hi guys, just head to clarify some things about the situation.

 

1. This entire conversation was done through texting, more importantly it should’ve been discussed in person but she and I had obligations where we couldn’t see each other and she does not like talking on the phone.

 

2. This isn’t an instance where I’ve put myself before the child before, I’ve never done that, and I don’t believe that is right. I’m not disagreeing with people on here saying it’s wrong to put yourself before the child. I know this.

 

3. The vacation wasn’t just because things were rocky. We had been going on 2 months that were good/great leading up to the vacation since we had our falling out. The vacation was supposed to be fun, but along with that, I figured it was also part of the road of things smoothing our again even more. That falling out was based on something disrespectful she did in front of me (I won’t go into detail here) that triggered an initial emotional response from me that upset me. I didn’t do anything crazy but I did raise my voice some and I learned from that incident. I was hurt, but I should’ve managed myself more appropriately. She has an issue of commitment in a relationship and decided to stay at her family’s for a week. During this time, we couldn’t come to a compromise because we both were standing up for 2 different things. Her action/my reaction. We took some time to ourselves, and learned from it, and have had a really good past 2 months. I’ve never been able to take her to the beach in our relarionship(I was fortunate to get a well paying job this year) and I was really excited to take her. We always talked about it.

 

4. She gave me the ultimatum if I didn’t let her see her kid with the dad while we were down there, I would lose her and the boy for good. Then asked, “So what’s it going to be?” Then went on to say we should just go down as friends, and she would pay for her half of things. She clearly was mad and emotions run high, and things that aren’t normally said were said.

 

Thanks for coming back to clarify which confirmed my hunch that she wasn't reacting very well in the first place either. If both of you have made mistakes, you both need to own up to it and learn to speak in a less antagonistic or hostile way. I don't agree with her attitude there asking you what's it going to be. It's confrontational and doesn't sound like the kind of tone that two people use to engage in respectful and more even-handed conversation (down to earth).

 

I'm not sure why she felt that she had to offer you an ultimatum either. If she's so concerned about being a mother she should just go and not stir up drama with ultimatums. Being a mother is demonstrative - just demonstrate your love and do what you have to do. You, as her partner, should also feel that you have enough of her to go around and that you can trust her decisions.

 

It doesn't sound like you trust her overall and, to be frank, she seems like a whole lot of drama, if you ask me. Take a step back and let things cool off for a bit. Don't let anyone bully you into an ultimatum. Let her go and let things be for now. It'll give you a chance to rethink the relationship and recognize if this is the type of woman for you or the type of interactions you wish to have going forward.

[katrina1980]

 

She gave me the ultimatum if I didn’t let her see her kid with the dad while we were down there, I would lose her and the boy for good. Then asked, “So what’s it going to be?”

 

Then went on to say we should just go down as friends, and she would pay for her half of things.

 

I can't stand ultimatums, they're controlling and manipulative. And provide good insight into someone's character too and how they choose to resolve conflicts. Through manipulation and threatening tactics.

 

Not good.

 

And regardless of how "wrong" she thought you were, I find her style of issuing it to be quite rude and yes disrespectful.

 

I am also wondering if the reason she sounds so disrespectful, is because she, in fact, does not respect you.

 

We teach people how to treat us.

[abitbroken]

Honestly, mentioning that while you were vacationing at the beach, the child would be there too and that she was going to duck out to see her child for an hour or two did not have to be an in person conversation - particularly if you were having trouble connecting because of your schedules that day -- because it was not an emotional statement from her. She probably just was texted by her ex, and then texted you. just my take.

[Batya33]

I agree the ultimatum isn't healthy - and I can see why she'd go all Mama Bear on you especially if she was startled by your response - she was texting you about a child-related scheduling matter and your response took it to an emotional level. She should have chosen her words more carefully or tabled it till you could speak in person. I think the previous "rockiness" contributed to this.

[Wiseman2]

If she senses a conflict of interest that in any way that involves her child, her dating life will have to go. It's that simple. Unfortunately you are involved in that conflict of interests.

[Hollyj]

I think that it is relavent to know what she did that made you feel "disrespected?"

[abitbroken]

I think that it is relavent to know what she did that made you feel "disrespected?"

 

This is why:

 

I know she is not into him anymore and was solely doing this to see her son, but I felt disrespected in the process. I couldn’t come along with her and the dad wouldn’t drop the child off because he is mean with that kind of thing, I get that. So her only option was to go to dinner with him, their son, and the parents for an hour, while I stayed at our condo. She thinks I didn’t handle any of this well because I didn’t think it was fair to me. From her perspective, the child is attached to her, and she was claiming to want to make his week better by seeing him.

 

The fact that he couldn't go with her, that the dad would not drop the kid off, etc.

It would actually not be reasonable for the dad to drop the kid off because that ruins the whole point of the dinner - for mom to pop in so the kid can see her and be reassured. Sort of to have a little dose of mom while he was with his dad for an extended period of time. If the OP went it would change the dynamic of the situation - to being about how dad and boyfriend get along. As the child grows, its good for the child to see mom and paternal grandparents get along, mom and dad get along for the sake of the child IMHO.

[Batya33]

This is why:

 

 

 

The fact that he couldn't go with her, that the dad would not drop the kid off, etc.

 

Why should just a boyfriend get to go to a family dinner like that especially given the recent rockiness and also it was the dad's prescribed time with the child and he wanted his mother to see her grandson too which would not have been easy to arrange if he dropped off the child and his mother at a condo where she and her boyfriend were. That's not disrespect - they are part of a family. He is not yet part of the family and they are on vacation -he doesn't have to stay at the condo -he's an adult who is free to hang out at home or go anywhere he wishes during that time or even later than that time.

 

I was wondering -as was Holly and Abitbroken what she had done earlier that was disrespectful -whatever caused the "rockiness"/

[Hollyj]

This is why:

 

 

 

The fact that he couldn't go with her, that the dad would not drop the kid off, etc.

It would actually not be reasonable for the dad to drop the kid off because that ruins the whole point of the dinner - for mom to pop in so the kid can see her and be reassured. Sort of to have a little dose of mom while he was with his dad for an extended period of time. If the OP went it would change the dynamic of the situation - to being about how dad and boyfriend get along. As the child grows, its good for the child to see mom and paternal grandparents get along, mom and dad get along for the sake of the child IMHO.

There is another incident prior to this while vacation thing that he does not want to discuss.

[abitbroken]

There is another incident prior to this while vacation thing that he does not want to discuss.

 

Oh *that* time of being disrespected. I am looking forward to the answer., too . He doesn't seem to be very flexible, though, overall..

[Hollyj]

Oh *that* time of being disrespected. I am looking forward to the answer., too . He doesn't seem to be very flexible, though, overall..

 

You are right!

[Heather Dawn]

No matter how "disrespected" you feel, OP, you don't get between a mother and her child - especially one so young.

[purplepaisley]

It was the father's family/parenting time/"visitation" time, and I don't believe he was under any obligation to drop off the child to spend time with the mother on HIS vacation when it was HIS time....divorce and parenting time...sorry, we can get really, really protective of our time with our kids, and the other parent or family members don't get to run roughshod over it. We have all this time written down on paper for a reason -- to avoid conflict in an otherwise potentially rocky situation.

 

OP - you've been dating this woman for TWO years, yes? In this time, you have reached a point where you have met and spend time with the child, and are taking on a stepparent role, assuming this relasionship is progressing in such a fashion of serious and potential marriage. I think that you should be in a place, as a staple in her and her son's life, that you should have been included in this little family reunion.

 

However, divorce and breakups can be bitter and wicked, and your girlfriend is also undecided on a "serious relationship." Not a good combination.

 

My divorced parents were horrible...mainly my mother. I remember not being allowed to talk to my dad who attended school functions because "it wasn't his day." It was bad, and it was ugly.

 

When I got divorced, I really worked hard to maintain cordial relations because I absolutely didn't want my children to suffer the same thing I suffered from. Don't get me wrong; there's no way on God's Green Earth I'd be spending any regular time with my ex and his family, and if he booked a vacation at the same location as I booked my vacation on MY VACATION WEEK (mine)?? Really?? I would find the situation very sketchy, and I would be looking to cancel my booking and go somewhere else.

 

BUT...if we were quite coincidentally in the same place, and I was dating my guy for 2 years, and he was my potential husband, and my children's potential stepfather, you bet your sweet bippy, he would accompany me on that dinner, meet the family, etc. These people aren't going away. Granted, if this is a "first," maybe you'd be stuck in the condo...but there would be a goal...to incorporate and blend.

 

The rocky and toxic relationship with my divorced parents? None of that would have happened. My mother wouldn't have even attempted to incorporate and blend this divided family unit.

 

I don't know what's going on. I think after two years, where you seem to be a part of her and this child's life, you should have been included. Maybe the whole situation was way too new, and way too rocky to broach at the time. I don't know how bad or toxic this breakup was or what the relationship is now...the reality is, you are a staple (maybe? with her commitment issues?) and that means she needs to have you part of these little things.

 

There aren't a lot, but we have birthdays, baptisms, graduations, confirmation, new babies, the grandchild's first birthday, the kindergarten recital, the parenting issues with emergencies, dropping off, picking up, homework, appointments, extracurricular activities...the list goes on where the new guy/gal gets incorporated into the family unit. You have to be incorporated at some point if this relationship is serious and you are taking on this child as your own and this woman as your wife.

 

If this extended family relationship is toxic and divided; and if your girlfriend is keeping you behind a wall...you need to question if this is a relationship worth maintaining.

 

How in the world did you both manage to plan a trip at the same place at the same time?