Not Quite How I Wanted to Come Back

[Batya33]

I’m hearing you Bat, I swear I am. I know all those things and still “bye, block and move on” isn’t my default reaction and I’m so mad/baffled as to why it isn’t. I’m screaming it at myself.

 

I feel like those people who freeze in a situation, but emotionally. I’m too cowardly to pull the plug apparently, I don’t want to “fix it” or try to win him over or move forward, it’s like I just want to stand perfectly still and maybe disappear.

 

I’m not yelling at you, I’m yelling at myself, but IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!

 

If I were giving advice to me I’d be like “FFS girl, be like Elsa and LET. IT. GO”.

 

It doesn't need to be a default reaction. I wrote that above. You can feel the fear and still act in a way that is healthful for you. You've done that before many times, right -even when it wasn't your default reaction -how is that even a standard in the many situations we face. My go to reaction this morning was to yell at my son for his brattiness. I remained emotionally honest "I feel like yelling" and chose a different reaction -taking space and breathing and acting as calm as possible to get to the goal - getting him on the darn school bus. What's your goal? Fear is a normal blockage to getting to a goal. Please don't humor yourself with overthinking why it's not the "default" - do it and later you can contemplate your navel and think all you want about why it was so hard to tell him you're canceling the date. It doesn't need to make sense at all - often our default reactions make no sense at all. So what?

[Metaltwin70]

'And being that I just was like “We agreed to let each other know if we want to date others or aren’t feeling this!” I’d feel like a giant hypocrite to turn around and vanish'

_______

 

But Amk..he couldn't have shown you more clearly that he is both not feeling it and dating others... you don't owe him any kind of explanation, response - you owe him nothing.. How easy it is to give advise to others eh?..

[Batya33]

'And being that I just was like “We agreed to let each other know if we want to date others or aren’t feeling this!” I’d feel like a giant hypocrite to turn around and vanish'

_______

 

But Amk..he couldn't have shown you more clearly that he is both not feeling it and dating others... you don't owe him any kind of explanation, response - you owe him nothing.. How easy it is to give advise to others eh?..

 

I agree but I thought she made plans to see him again so I figured she should tell him she can't make it - just the polite thing to do -no reason to stand him up.

[boltnrun]

So you're fine with him lying and deceiving you but you feel you need to be polite and accommodating to him?

 

Yep, you are still trying to get him to love you.

 

Let me ask you this; when you imagined yourself in an ideal love relationship, was the man you pictured a man who deceives and covers things up?

[Metaltwin70]

' just the polite thing to do -no reason to stand him up.'

 

__________

 

Oh *** polite. He blatantly mislead her and lied to her. He made it super clear that he doesn't give two ****s about her. She sure can stand him up. He will live.

 

Sorry. I am, for reasons I shall keep to myself, truly mad at this man on Amk's behalf.

[katrina1980]

 

Definitely something I’m trying to get to the bottom of. Maybe a bruised ego. I’m wondering if he did want me, if I’d then be able to walk away- because now I don’t even want to be in a committed relationship with him (I mean I guess I do, but I know I wouldn’t accept it since he’s a liar)

 

Also wondering if I’m too weak to walk for whatever reason so by me staying I’m really actually just pushing him away more and ensuring it’ll never be a thing. No one wants a partner they don’t respect and honestly, not sure he ever did respect me (on a professional level), but this sure ensures he never will. Definitely not how I’d normally go about things, but I’m really hunting for answers-and I guess that gets the same result, minus yanno any dignity and self-respect (which clearly I’m displaying 0% of)

 

First paragraph -- bingo! Now we're getting somewhere. This is the closest so far you've come to figuring this puzzle (within yourself) out.

 

And you wouldn't be alone, ego drives many people. This need to feel wanted and desired even when we have stopped wanting and desiring them.

 

The many posters who post they are destroyed/devastated/obsessed after being dumped, then when their partner comes back, suddenly they don't know how they feel! Or they do know, and they suddenly feel nothing.

 

They probably didn't for a long time (just as their partner didn't), it was just this desperate need to know that their partner wanted them.

 

That's called being ego-driven and am glad you are finally recognizing that. If that is, in fact, the case, which it very well may be since you've fully admitted you don't much respect or even like him anymore, certainly have no desire to be in a relationship or commitment with him.

 

So what else could it be?

 

Second paragraph - yes. By staying and compromising your own values, your own truth, you are displaying weakness and lack of self-respect and self-love.

 

And has been said many times, no man will ever respect you (or love you) if you don't first respect and love yourself.

[katrina1980]

' just the polite thing to do -no reason to stand him up.'

 

__________

 

Oh *** polite. He blatantly mislead her and lied to her. He made it super clear that he doesn't give two ****s about her. She sure can stand him up. He will live.

 

Sorry. I am, for reasons I shall keep to myself, truly mad at this man on Amk's behalf.

 

I agree metal -- I think I posted this many pages ago but there are some situations where simply ghosting is justified, and this is one them -- lying and deceiving.

 

He'll figure it out, he's not stupid.

[Metaltwin70]

'He'll figure it out, he's not stupid.'

_____

 

Yep, he will. Sad thing is, he'd probably just be relieved. UGH.

[reinventmyself]

'He'll figure it out, he's not stupid.'

_____

 

Yep, he will. Sad thing is, he'd probably just be relieved. UGH.

 

I don't think he'll be very surprised either, unfortunately.

 

I've been where she's at. Frozen, passive, afraid to make a move. And then I closed my eyes, ripped off the band-aid and it felt exhilarating.

 

Yes, the disappointment and grief was still there. Ending it doesn't circumvent the icky feelings. But what you do get in return is some self esteem and confidence. It doesn't happen over night, but it comes along with continually acting in your own self care.

 

This is my wish for you.

It becomes a game changer.

This guy didn't want a relationship out of the gate. He still doesn't.

This is about him and it doesn't define you and because you couldn't get things to shift, it doesn't define your worth.

It never did.

 

Hold out for someone who thinks your awesome and don't settle for anything less.

[katrina1980]

I don't think he'll be very surprised either, unfortunately.

 

I've been where she's at. Frozen, passive, afraid to make a move. And then I closed my eyes, ripped off the band-aid and it felt exhilarating.

 

Yes, the disappointment and grief was still there. Ending it doesn't circumvent the icky feelings. But what you do get in return is some self esteem and confidence. It doesn't happen over night, but it comes along with continually acting in your own self care.

 

This is my wish for you.

It becomes a game changer.

This guy didn't want a relationship out of the gate. He still doesn't.

This is about him and it doesn't define you and because you couldn't get things to shift, it doesn't define your worth.

It never did.

 

Hold out for someone who thinks your awesome and don't settle for anything less.

 

This makes sense.

 

Although I'm the opposite-- I mean I've lived in denial (for a long time), convincing myself things were good when they weren't -- but once I become fully aware, whether it's lying, cheating, any form of deception, I'm outta there real fast.

 

I almost become repulsed by him, so it's quite easy to walk.

 

The hurt and pain, anger come later.

 

But I get what you're saying reinvent, and yeah makes sense.

[bluecastle]

Well, since this isn't ending any time soon I'll share some further thoughts.

 

But, before that, because my intention here is not to keep you in the spins, my big picture thoughts: your ego is driving you right now, the best move is silence, and like reinvent said in that silence something amazing will bloom inside of you and you'll actually come to appreciate this chapter. I'll circle back to that.

 

Anyhow...

 

My feeling as to why this latest, most glaring "app dilemma" is not sending you to the hills (aside from ego, dark corners, hope, hormones, and so on) is that his "lie" is not as blatant as you're making it out to be. The "lie" that hurts most is the lie at the center of this whole thing, which was a mutually created deception that allowed you both to stay in it past the expiration date.

 

What I mean is that none of these now-notorious app conversations have been nearly as straightforward as you've described them—on this forum, in your own mind. There was not a real "agreement," ever, and you've kind of always known that while being annoyed at yourself for denying that knowledge.

 

There was no mountaintop declaration from this guy that he was "off the apps" for good. No, it was first mentioned as a semi-sweet admission that he hadn't had much interest in the apps since connecting with and sleeping with AK. That was genuine.

 

A key point in that first chat that hasn't gotten much play here is that he added that he was cool if AK is still on the apps, still swiping, because that was the dynamic he was pushing for—one where apps could come and go, whatever, no biggie, until further notice. That, too, was genuine.

 

Another woman may have liked that part. AK did not. So it was psychically edited out almost as fast as it came in. But it was there—that little thorn, one of many, now scratching the skin and causing some pain.

 

The subsequent app conversations were where all genuineness was lost. Some shade came out on both sides—just the right amount of shade needed to keep the full truth from shining too brightly and burning up whatever "good" was there.

 

AK heard what she needed to hear, which is that he really, really liked her, that he was basically all in, but doesn't quite know it, but will (maybe!) come spring/summer, and her version of self-soothing was to push this narrative in further conversations. She essentially expedited "further notice" to now. He, meanwhile, continued hearing what he needed to hear, which is that she was cool with him being in the wind—his travel schedule, his emotional roadblocks, etc.—because she understood that he valued their connection.

 

Whatever "agreement" was reached was always bogus, too fragile for either of them to really believe, and AK, I think, knows that as she's reading this sentence. It was not etched in marble; it was sand through fingers, which is why it was so hard to talk about over the weekend. It was both of them being a touch dishonest, so they could both get what they needed to exhale. From that point on they were living in two different realities, telling two different stories—but the realities/narratives were just close enough that both could deny the bubble gum plugging the holes in the ship.

 

That's a lot of words, I know, to get to the point FiO has been making the whole time: you're either cool with it or you're not. AK, you have not been cool with this since date three. Yeah, those of us who would have maybe been cool with it (me, K) tried to offer you some cool mints to chew on, but they didn't work.

 

When you're cool with something, whatever the arrangement, you are calm, not spinning, and I hope that's a lesson here. Spins are spins are spins. If they don't stop, something is up, because being dizzy sucks.

 

All of which brings me back to the present.

 

Say nothing, back away. That's how things often go in the gray zone, and it's not for everyone. There is no grace, no touching notes, no shared clarity, no melancholy sunsets. Those are for the black and white zones—and you sending anything will just land as another plea for him to make the gray turn black, which will keep you spinning. And around and around you'll both go.

 

You need silence. You need space. You need to mend. You do not need to keep playing this game with him. Give yourself that and, like reinvent said, you will tap into the inner-roar. Because it's there, and it is fiercer than you know. You've had some fun with this guy, felt some feelings, gotten twisted around—all good, especially if you allow it to harness that roar.

[reinventmyself]

 

 

This guy didn't want a relationship out of the gate. He still doesn't.

This is about him and it doesn't define you and because you couldn't get things to shift, it doesn't define your worth.

It never did.

 

 

You just simply weren't willing to do things on his terms any longer.

It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

[reinventmyself]

This makes sense.

 

Although I'm the opposite-- I mean I've lived in denial (for a long time), convincing myself things were good when they weren't -- but once I become fully aware, whether it's lying, cheating, any form of deception, I'm outta there real fast.

 

I almost become repulsed by him, so it's quite easy to walk.

 

The hurt and pain, anger come later.

 

But I get what you're saying reinvent, and yeah makes sense.

That's always a choice.

- Staying until things start to stink.

Break ups are much more tolerable when you despise one another.

My tolerance for drama is low, now'a'days

I prefer leaving earlier rather than later.

But I didn't always see it this way.

[akrngrl]

All very good points and thank you so much for your input-truly I appreciate it.

 

Definitely think it’s some ego Kat. I spent some time researching it today and it’s 100% part of it. I think there’s something more though to it too.

 

I just meant default reaction as in who in their right mind would choose to stay? Like I said if this was any of my friends I’d be like “give me your phone so I can block him FOR you” so why that’s not my reaction for myself was puzzling, but I (think! Probably not lol) I may be on to why:

 

I took him out of the boyfriend box, I want to be kind, but 100% nope this is not who I’d pick my future husband to be. I think there’s that fun factor now though too that I touched on.

 

Despite the deceit and the lies we have a freaking fantastic time together (evidenced by my ability to go 10 hours without popping with information). I don’t want to lose that fun I don’t think.

 

It makes NO sense to stay if I want a long term relationship and if I want one out of him, but I’ve realized I don’t anymore. He showed his true colors and I’m not young enough to put on sunglasses and turn away convincing myself he could still be a wonderful husband some day.

 

I’ve never been with someone that I’ve started out wanting one thing with and it’s morphed into something else though-sans one friend who I wanted to date (met on an app, but were never physical) but he’s emotional unavailability dropped him in the friendzone and we talk every day.

 

Blue touched on the initial app thing, which now looking back, I do find interesting. It could and probably does mean NOTHING, but like blue said- initially he wanted to be off and didn’t care if I was on, there was no major push for me to stop swiping. Now it’s the total opposite. He grunts and gives me side eye if I mention a celebrity being handsome and he does that childish exclamation of “no...Mine!”.

That’s not actually true man, not yours, clearly never was and don’t really want to be (in the sense that I’d have to put up with you and your antics).

 

Reinvent: totally right about breakups being easier when you hate each other.

 

Still also wondering if I’m just self sabotaging (don’t walk away so he doesn’t respect me and therefore I can ensure he’ll never actually want to commit). Something I definitely want to explore later when I have some time. Why not take the healthy way out AK?

 

Everyone is right about this being a learning experience. Kinda bummed it’s one I likely wouldn’t have had to learn had I always just stuck to my intense initial vetting process, but maybe this is for a reason.

 

The self-crushing hate has subsided the more I dive into this within myself. If I’m going to have to go through it I’m going to come out the other side a better more knowledgeable person.

[reinventmyself]

 

Despite the deceit and the lies we have a freaking fantastic time together (evidenced by my ability to go 10 hours without popping with information). I don’t want to lose that fun I don’t think.

 

I am kinda gobsmacked that you said all of this in the same sentence.

The self-crushing hate has subsided the more I dive into this within myself.

 

Two massive reasons to let go of fun boy. As if the first one wasn't good enough.

 

Surround yourself with quality, trustworthy people and limit your exposure to people who lie to you, because you end up punishing yourself for allowing it to continue. You need to be angry at someone and you won't permit yourself to be angry at the man who deserves at least some of it, so it's much more safe to take it out on yourself. The anger needs to go somewhere. If you were to direct it at him, you might actually have to take a stand on it, right? So you beat yourself up instead.

 

I had an epiphany a few years back. I looked in the rear view mirror at my mistakes. Those moments of self hate for allowing things to happen (much like this) I considered it all collateral damage. A viewed it as a scar, a mark on peace of wood. (or my heart) So many marks that I can't totally erase and I will ultimately take some of it with me into every new relationship.

 

Looking at it this way, what exactly are my chances of having a happy healthy relationship if I have allowed this much collateral damage? In that moment started being responsible for my choices.

 

You are being passive, permissive. You are currently punishing yourself over it.

 

If you play this right you can walk away a stronger version of yourself, promising yourself you won't risk putting yourself in harms way again.

 

Still also wondering if I’m just self sabotaging (don’t walk away so he doesn’t respect me and therefore I can ensure he’ll never actually want to commit). Something I definitely want to explore later when I have some time.

 

So, here's the question at hand - Can you continue to have fun, overlook the lies and omissions and play on his terms without any qualms? If not, call it.

[bluecastle]

So, here's the question at hand - Can you continue to have fun, overlook the lies and omissions and play on his terms without any qualms? If not, call it.

 

This, and only this.

 

And, I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but I'm worried you don't know what fun really is. Fun is not just hot sex and comfort and laughter and meals and dreams of the future and adrenaline coursing through you when someone touches the small of your back and says, "Can you hand me the pepper shaker?"

 

Fun is those things without the spins.

[Batya33]

I agree metal -- I think I posted this many pages ago but there are some situations where simply ghosting is justified, and this is one them -- lying and deceiving.

 

He'll figure it out, he's not stupid.

 

I don't think so because she hung out with him last weekend even after she accused him of lying -and if she stands him up he might harass her, etc -who needs it -a simple text cancelling plans is ok IMO - I think it would have been fine to do last weekend and let him figure out she saw him on a dating app.

[Jibralta]

Can you continue to have fun, overlook the lies and omissions and play on his terms without any qualms?

 

Isn't overlooking lies and omissions the absolute dead-opposite of fun? Wouldn't these endeavors be, in fact, fun-killers?

[boltnrun]

Jeez, OP, I just don't see the horrible anxiety, self-doubt and sleepless nights, not to mention all the crying, as FUN.

 

You can truly put all of that out of your mind when he's standing in front of you?

[katrina1980]

Isn't overlooking lies and omissions the absolute dead-opposite of fun? Wouldn't these endeavors be, in fact, fun-killers?

 

Yeah, like seriously!

 

How the HECK do you have "fun" with a man who lies to you?

 

How can you even look at him let alone allow him to touch you?

 

How are you not repulsed?

 

Being lied to is the ultimate in disrespect, imo.

 

I simply cannot relate to this "I cannot give up the fun" mindset!

 

Can you clarify how you're able to do this, and overlook the disrespect?

 

Not judging, I'd just like to understand.

 

EDIT: Nothing wrong with wanting to remain on the aps and keeping it casual. It's him misleading you to believe he was off, telling you he had no interest, but then your discovering he was still active.

 

Assumimg I'm reading the situation correctly; hell I'm not even sure anymore if I am! There have been so many different spins (to quote bluecastle). :)

[katrina1980]

I just thought of something.

 

A few posts back I opined that the reason you couldn't walk away was because you did not deem his actions all that bad, not bad enough to justfy walking away.

 

You denied, claiming oh you did deem them that bad, which was why you are struggling, down on yourself, essentially beating yourself up, because, given his behavior, you knew you should walk away.

 

But now you tell us, despite the bullshyt, you have an amazing time together, so much "fun"?

 

Can you not see how contradictory that is and utterly confusing for us? At least I am.

 

Which leads me to suspect what I posted earlier has some merit -- deep down you don't deem his actions all that bad (not judging if that's the case), you enjoy your time together and how he makes you feel, otherwise there is no way on gods green earth you'd be able to have an amazing time together, deeming such time together as fun.

 

No way, no how. Not possible.

[katrina1980]

To add, you spoke of addiction eatlier, he being your "drug" of choice. Which I could actually understand if that were the case.

 

My ex was a meth and cocaine addict and once he became addicted, it wasn't about fun or an "amazing time" anymore, like in the beginning.

 

It was about feeding his addiction and survival. Hardly fun and amazing.

 

Love addiction is not much different -- it's about feeding your addiction, getting your fix (attention from him).

 

A temporary high of sorts; is this what you mean when you say fun and amazing? A temporary high, your "fix"?

 

Again, just trying to understand.

 

Anyway, nuff said from me, I hope you can work this out, good luck akr.

[catfeeder]

Isn't overlooking lies and omissions the absolute dead-opposite of fun? Wouldn't these endeavors be, in fact, fun-killers?

 

For me, absolutely.I'd find nothing 'fun' about posing for pictures to impress the friends who gave me horrible advice while pretending that I'm not dis-illusioned.

[akrngrl]

I suppose I meant fun as in the activities we do. We’re never just lumped on the couch staring blankly at each other. I can’t really explain it other than I’m in the moment and I don’t focus on those things- and as most of you can tell I’m usually living ANYWHERE, but in the moment.

 

No one is more surprised than me that I’m not a wet blanket when out, especially given the events. I truly questioned if I’d make it the whole ten or so hours last weekend before I brought it up. I wear my reactions on my face and I can’t compartmentalize to save my life. If something happens my whole day is ruined. That’s not a good thing or something I’m proud of, but just to illustrate.

 

It very well may be an addiction (to him, to the activities that we do) I’m not ruling anything out at this point. It just seems to morph because I’m not all in that “I really hope we end up happily ever after” mindset anymore.

 

I mean picture this: the wedding night, speeches being made: “yeah it was a real rough go in the beginning when ya were being a sneaky liar even though we agreed no dating sites and you couldn’t commit to me-glad we made it”

(This is me joking) I can’t imagine looking back and being okay with someone that didn’t immediately and always “choose me”. My entire dating history is comprised of people who never “chose me” over one thing or another, so I just envision whoever my future husband is to be the opposite of that.

 

I know we’re not into analyzing actions/motives of anyone and I’m not a helpless victim, but just to illustrate: I got, what I would consider, an out of the way invite to dinner and post final project celebrations with his family.

 

He wanted to keep us private way back when because he said they’re nosey and he rarely tells them stuff. He could have easily just not said anything to me about meeting them so I can’t help but wonder about that thought process.

 

Then again my thought process is severely skewed so I have no room to judge.

[Wiseman2]

Where do things actually (not theoretically) stand with him now? For example: Do you still communicate? How often? Will he visit you in the near future? Will you visit him? Are actual (not theoretical/tentative or briefly mentioned in past) plans made for this?

 

What is the real state of affairs with the situation with him? When did you last communicate? About what? Are concrete real actual plans to see each other in place? Are you still on the dating apps? Are you still "casually browsing" in your area/nearby city?

 

What is the real situation right now without could have, should have, would have, what if, etc. Where do you stand with him? Not "...picture the wedding night..." theories, projection or speculation.

He could have easily just not said anything to me about meeting them so I can’t help but wonder about that thought process.