Not Quite How I Wanted to Come Back

[Batya33]

No he didn't get you -you knew who he was and what he was about very early on and if you didn't know it all it's just because you intentionally put blinders on. Now I see a bit more though - where you live is a larger priority than finding someone. I moved (only 9 miles) to be in a high rent district in a major city (moved out of my parents house -I used to commute into the city) in my late 20s so I could be where the single scene was. 9 miles away would have been a bit of an obstacle because I worked very long and unpredictable hours, so did the men I dated (mostly) and adding any kind of commute/trying to find a taxi late at night was going to put a damper on it. So you have different priorities and you're willing to settle for long distance or people temporarily in your neck of the woods - you "can" but you choose not to. Completely valid, just own it because it's not a "can't" at all.

 

My husband and I were long distance on and off for 2-3 years (and had a commuter marriage for a number of months including while new parents!) because he was temporarily in my city. But, we had dated seriously in the past -almost gotten married -and when we got back together and knew we were going to be long distance we had a short convo about what that meant - exclusive, committed with the intention of marriage in the future if it all worked out. No face time or texting either (no technology for that) -and we saw each other every 11 days or so. Had all of that not been in place I wouldn't have done LDR.

 

Right now you don't want it badly enough to shift your priorities. It's really hard to meet someone for a long term match in the first place and your choice to live in a remote area as you describe it makes it that much harder and will tend to attract people who want casual arrangement/flings when they are in town. I think there's a lot right with casual arrangements and flings where both people want them -fun, light, you can "play house" temporarily -kind of like the vacation romances I've had or the summer romance. Sometimes it can become serious- happened to me in a one-sided way - but the chances are slim. Especially if the person knows you don't plan on relocating (I told my future husband I would with a few geographic exceptions, and 8 months after marriage I did, with an infant) - once they know that they already are going to protect themselves emotionally from you -I would if I had seen any serious potential.

 

So your way is safer as far as relationships. Again I am not dismissing your priority on living where you do with all of its pluses. I think it's great you know that just like I knew my priorities. But if you own it and don't see it as a "can't move" (and for some it's much much closer to a "can't" -elderly parents, or kids in a good school, a divorce agreement that doesn't allow relocating without a big fight, etc) - you can, you choose not to, you accept the downsides.

[akrngrl]

No he didn't get you -you knew who he was and what he was about very early on and if you didn't know it all it's just because you intentionally put blinders on. Now I see a bit more though - where you live is a larger priority than finding someone. I moved (only 9 miles) to be in a high rent district in a major city (moved out of my parents house -I used to commute into the city) in my late 20s so I could be where the single scene was. 9 miles away would have been a bit of an obstacle because I worked very long and unpredictable hours, so did the men I dated (mostly) and adding any kind of commute/trying to find a taxi late at night was going to put a damper on it. So you have different priorities and you're willing to settle for long distance or people temporarily in your neck of the woods - you "can" but you choose not to. Completely valid, just own it because it's not a "can't" at all.

 

My husband and I were long distance on and off for 2-3 years (and had a commuter marriage for a number of months including while new parents!) because he was temporarily in my city. But, we had dated seriously in the past -almost gotten married -and when we got back together and knew we were going to be long distance we had a short convo about what that meant - exclusive, committed with the intention of marriage in the future if it all worked out. No face time or texting either (no technology for that) -and we saw each other every 11 days or so. Had all of that not been in place I wouldn't have done LDR.

 

Right now you don't want it badly enough to shift your priorities. It's really hard to meet someone for a long term match in the first place and your choice to live in a remote area as you describe it makes it that much harder and will tend to attract people who want casual arrangement/flings when they are in town. I think there's a lot right with casual arrangements and flings where both people want them -fun, light, you can "play house" temporarily -kind of like the vacation romances I've had or the summer romance. Sometimes it can become serious- happened to me in a one-sided way - but the chances are slim. Especially if the person knows you don't plan on relocating (I told my future husband I would with a few geographic exceptions, and 8 months after marriage I did, with an infant) - once they know that they already are going to protect themselves emotionally from you -I would if I had seen any serious potential.

 

So your way is safer as far as relationships. Again I am not dismissing your priority on living where you do with all of its pluses. I think it's great you know that just like I knew my priorities. But if you own it and don't see it as a "can't move" (and for some it's much much closer to a "can't" -elderly parents, or kids in a good school, a divorce agreement that doesn't allow relocating without a big fight, etc) - you can, you choose not to, you accept the downsides.

 

I see your point Bat. I suppose to me it’s a “can’t”, but for others they would. That would entail me selling/taking a loss on my home, going back to renting and having to have roommates for the first time in my life (strong pass on that one, some people can make it work, but I need isolation) and taking a much lower paying job in a much more expensive area.

 

Financially/logically that makes zero sense to me and for lack of a better word seems rather silly, but some people would probably see the benefits of close access to bars and social things-I’m not really into that and at that point I couldn’t afford to do any of it anyway lol. I can see now how some people would put finding a partner above all of that and be willing to sacrifice everything though. I thought my ultimate goal was to find a partner, but if I’m not willing to sacrifice those things before getting them than I suppose maybe not.

 

I’ve never thought an hour/ hour and a half was “long distance” but I’ve learned a lot on this forum.

 

IF I met the right person, 1000% would up and move with them wherever (okay maybe not really cold places haha), but I have to have decided they’re worth it first. Hence forever ago when I was agonizing on investing in my home or not because I was like “what if this works out and I have to leave ASAP??” When I thought this was a thing and I found out he was placed where I’m from originally and I had to consider moving back there I wanted to cry. I spent forever trying to get away only to go back haha, but I was willing (in my mind, I didn’t discuss this with him-it never came up more me thinking into the future).

 

I like the way you did it and at first I honestly kind of thought this thing with this guy had that sort of potential. (Date first, and then when he came back see where we stood), but that kinda went down the drain lol.

[figureitout23]

 

Especially in an instance such as this where this is no permanent placement. It’s not like he was just moving somewhere that’s not where I am and that’s where he’s staying. They move him all over at the drop of a hat-here for a month, there for 6 months, etc. That would basically mean a repeat of the situation we are in on a loop, which would work if he didn’t want something serious, but that’s what he said he wanted ideally/big picture (something serious).

 

I’m the first to admit that he got me. I try not to think people are calculated/put a lot of effort into being sneaky, but when I asked him a few weeks ago why he didn’t tell me everything up front (about multiple situations) and why he said the bare minimum over the last few months his response was “because then you would have run away.”

 

Like I mentioned, I’m kind of in a “this is good enough for now” mindset if the agreed upon boundaries we established are adhered to. I’m not pushing to be his gf anymore and I don’t really want to be.

 

Him aside, any relationship I pursue will be somewhat long distance. On my own, I love where I am and I’ve done very well for myself. There is no one within a 60 mile radius of me though so anyone would be a bit of a trek unless they’re just in town for a bit like this fella. Though I want to find someone, I am not willing to uproot my life and comforts to move closer to people to *hope* I meet someone. I am totally willing to consider relocation if I meet someone that’s the bees knees, but I just can’t at this point fathom giving up everything and moving into a much more uncomfortable situation without any promise of it even being beneficial. Maybe that’s the issue and only then will it work out for me, but I just can’t.

 

Ok good you’re admitting you’re going to stay.

 

To answer your question about the parents meeting and why he brought it up now when he didn’t before, it’s to smooth things over, he’s dangling a carrot.

 

Please don’t think this means you will one day be his girlfriend, if you’re going to do this, you gotta stop grasping at straw and finally finally finally be honest with yourself about what this is and what you’re ok with. You’re still a full blown pretzel at this point.

 

You said above you’re ok with things as long as boundaries are adhered to. That’s a lie, boundaries were broken, you didn’t leave so the reality you need to face is:

 

“I’m ok with all this, because I get to keep him.”

 

That’s your reality. I’m not saying it as a judgement I’m saying this is reality, accept it or get hurt again, you are not going to be able to continue with him unscathed if you keep lying to yourself and if you cant you need to end it. You’re either ok with this or you aren’t, stop creating scenarios that no longer paint a picture of reality.

 

You mentioned him traveling all the time. Again looks like self soothing.

 

I’m also law enforcement and while that encompasses a huge variety of jobs, I can’t think of one where you don’t have a place to call home, even military have a base to call home. The closest I can think is maybe marshals but as much as they travel they have a home office they report to. He has a home, and it’s no where near you, another reality to face. Chicken or egg I don’t know if he’s lying or he told you the truth and you’ve spun it to make it more palatable for you but as much as he travels, he has a home and it’s no where near you. Face that reality. Be ok with that reality, stop twisting, you will be hurt if you keep doing it. He travels and he meets women when he travels. This is reality, you’re ok with it or you aren’t.

 

Next the whole thing about you ‘having to date long distance’ it’s an excuse. Stop. Unless you are an alien who creates her own electricity. Creates her own food and clothing. You have humans of the male species near you.

 

Here’s where the therapy word comes into play you make a conscious choice to date long distance. You keep ignoring my posts where I point out all these inconsistencies but much like the reality of this situation, I like to post, you’re gonna have to face the questions eventually... you don’t have to date long distance you choose to, just like you choose to chase after men who seem aloof, it’s self sabotaging and is a huge indicator of something deeper going on. Remember I said start from the bottom. You have options, you’re presenting all this as absolutes but none of them are. You choose to make them that.Bolt and another poster made excellent points about why youre possibly drawn to him, that make a lot more sense than the paragraphs if spinning your doing.

 

Time to stop. You’re dating a dude who likes to meet women wherever he travels. Nothing wrong with it, if you like it I love it, but this is your reality. There’s nothing else to it

[katrina1980]

So does this mean you're going to re-do your bathroom now?

 

Earlier in the thread, you said you were holding off waiting to see what would happen, if he was open to having you move closer to him.

 

You said this is what you were hoping for and wanting, to close that gap.

 

With this guy.

 

Now you are saying something different, that he's not the right guy, you don't want commitment with him, and would be happy with the long distance.

 

I can only surmise this change is because you have come to the realization that HE doesn't want more with you and never will, so you have compromised your self, your values in favor of a man who sees you as a "good for now" girl versus a woman to go the distance with, or attempt to.

 

All because he "got to you" and the activities you do together (your phrasing) are fun and amazing.

 

I dunno, if you felt that way from the get go, cool.

 

But the way you twist yourself into a pretzel, compromising yourself and your values, what you want, to please some guy who, in my opinion, does not value you, is troubling and something you may wish to explore.

 

You give him way too much power over you and your lfe, your choices, your values, it's like you feel you are some extension of him or something.

 

Whatever HE wants, you will twist yourself to be that woman.

 

Not healthy imo but best of luck.

[boltnrun]

Good point Katrina.

 

A few short weeks ago, OP, you were willing to move to be with him. Now you say you won't.

 

I presume that is because, in light of the reality of the situation, you know that won't happen. Not because you're not willing to drop everything to follow him, but because you know it would be a bad investment in someone you know for a fact deceives, lies and leaves out pertinent information to keep you in his pocket. To benefit HIM, not you.

 

Several of us have said this; you are willing to put up with just about anything to keep him. You value him more than yourself. Or, you base your own value on whether or not he is willing to spend time with you.

 

As long as you are fine with sharing him with others, HONESTLY fine with it, then carrying on should not result in sleepless nights and hours of crying.

 

BTW, have you stopped tracking his dating site activity?

[bluecastle]

This is getting pretty dizzying, AK.

 

Let's just be blunt here. Those boundary talks? They are a charade and always have been, a little co-created deception so neither of you have to tell the true story of what's going on here.

 

And what's the true story?

 

The true story is that this is a casual relationship that is likely going nowhere and that, while built around a connection that is real and intimate and sometimes exciting, isn't bringing either of you much sustained joy, comfort, or security.

 

The true story is that, because you are humans, and humans are lonely, possessive, ego-driven animals who like to feel wanted and to rub up against other humans, neither of you want to lose the other.

 

The true story is that you both know, and have known for a while, that you can't provide what the other needs to be genuinely okay with things, even in the present.

 

The true story is that you are both placeholders until something real comes along, while both clinging to some misshapen idea that, if you can grind this out, the "real thing" will be each other (or, in his case, maybe you but maybe the person he swipes right on when he goes back on the apps in a day or two).

 

The true story is that this is an arrangement that is probably holding you both back from being your authentic selves.

 

The true story is that, for whatever is good here, this whole thing only works because you can excavate a certain weakness in the other and turn it into glue.

 

That's not a nice story to tell—at least not for most people, certainly not for either of you. So you are both playing little false roles to fill the gap, make the story palatable, like putting on special sunglasses so you can stare at the eclipse without going blind.

 

He plays the role of someone more committed than he is. You play the role of someone cooler than you are.

 

In those performances you are both just lying, bending, pretzel-ing. But it's a palpable version of lying because, I think, you're both playing the character of the person you'd like to actually be—and may actually be, some day, but probably with someone else.

 

And that's both the hook and the source of the sting.

 

Some day he will likely meet a woman and commit to her in exactly the way you hope he'd commit to you; she will simply feel his affection, trust it, and surrender into it feeling safe. Some day you may be that woman with another man, or some day you may very well enjoy a casual thing with someone without needing to monitor their activity on apps, go without sleep, and post obsessively on a forum like that. Condoms in lieu of any hope for commitment, not condoms on the path to commitment.

 

No judgement, I swear. Often we use people to try out versions of ourselves, and often we have to twist ourselves into a crazy knot to remember what it feels like to stand up straight. It can be beneficial. It can also be very painful and very consuming, and I suspect that is the path you're on right now, far more than he is.

 

Playing roles gets exhausting. The costume, the masks: they get heavy. Those glasses we use to stare at eclipses? They look kind of stupid, especially once the the moon as passed over the sun. And, in this whole thing, the sun passed over the moon many weeks ago.

 

Ideally, of course, we want to learn how to play one role, all the time, with all people. That role is ourselves, and it doesn't need to be one thing and one thing only. But we know when we're playing it. We're playing it when we sleep well, when we don't construct ever-expanding black holes on internet forums, when we're too busy just being to tell stories that make being bearable.

 

You talk a lot about how you value honesty. To which I say: please, please be honest with yourself. It is not the job of another to construct your truth.

[katrina1980]

Bc, fair points, but imo the "true story" is that OP is being emotionally dishonest (within herself), compromosing herself and her values.

 

Whatever is going on with him is his issue to work out, not hers.

 

And to spend even one second of energy focusing on his motives is one second too long.

 

Focus on you akr, why you make this choice for yourself. Compromising yourself the way you're doing, clearly.

 

Worth exploring.

[boltnrun]

I don't think he has an "issue", at least not one that keeps him sleepless, crying and agonizing.

 

He is the one getting everything he wants here. Sure, he has to deal with the occasional annoying conversation with AK, but with a little placating he gets companionship and sex on HIS terms.

 

Some of us might want to believe the way he conducts his romantic life to be an issue, "commitment phobia" or whatever. But I see it differently with this type of man. He doesn't commit not because he's "afraid" to do so, but because so far there have been enough of a supply of AK-type women willing to accommodate him. If one day he does meet one he doesn't want to lose, or if the well starts to run dry, he might change his approach.

 

But I disagree he has "issues". I think he's doing just fine.

 

AK, on the other hand? Completely different story there.

[bluecastle]

Bc, all true of course, but imo the "true story" is that OP is being emotionally dishonest (within herself), compromosing herself and her values.

 

Whatever is going on with him is his issue to work out, not hers.

 

Oh, I agree.

 

My semi-optimistic take is that AK did not know herself or her values very clearly when she met him and is "using" this to explore them and see them more clearly.

 

It is a painful thing to witness, I admit, like watching someone skin a cat with rusty butter knife. It won't make the blade any sharper, but the experience might be awful enough to lead someone to buy a better knife for future skinning.

[katrina1980]

@bolt, by issue I meant motive. Who the hell knows what he's thinking, what his motives are.

 

Whether he's playing some "role" as bc opined.

 

Who cares. It's irrelevant.

 

What is relevant is that OP is being emotionally dishonest, compromising herself and her values, which is worth exploring further imo.

 

This isn't her first rodeo either, she's been here before with previous men, so its a pattern.

[boltnrun]

I agree, Katrina. Who cares?

 

Bottom line, if AK has to lie to herself in order to hang onto this man I don't see this ending well.

 

I lied to myself for 4 years. At the end I was a mess. My self-esteem gone, my self-respect gone and my friends shaking their heads at me wondering why I allowed someone to treat me so poorly.

 

Not worth it. Yeah, we had some "fun" but really, is a bit of "fun" worth all that?

[figureitout23]

I don't think he has an "issue", at least not one that keeps him sleepless, crying and agonizing.

 

He is the one getting everything he wants here. Sure, he has to deal with the occasional annoying conversation with AK, but with a little placating he gets companionship and sex on HIS terms.

 

Some of us might want to believe the way he conducts his romantic life to be an issue, "commitment phobia" or whatever. But I see it differently with this type of man. He doesn't commit not because he's "afraid" to do so, but because so far there have been enough of a supply of AK-type women willing to accommodate him. If one day he does meet one he doesn't want to lose, or if the well starts to run dry, he might change his approach.

 

But I disagree he has "issues". I think he's doing just fine.

 

AK, on the other hand? Completely different story there.

 

BINGO!!!!!’

 

This is exactly true. It can’t be anymore true. The older I get the more I realize the whole idea of having to trick or corner a man into commitment is just so insane and I don’t for the life of me understand why women have allowed this to become a type of norm.

 

I PROMISE you if this man encountered Halle Berry his fears would be non existent. People with legitimate fears about commitment don’t do all this, they don’t. Men who know they can placate a woman to get her to be readily available to him on his terms do. And truthfully I’m still not convinced he’s a bad guy or blantantly lies I feel he felt cornered and said what he needed to gg her to be quiet...well yeah that does make him a bad guy.. Nevermind...

[boltnrun]

I agree, the lying part is really bad.

 

But I'm sure he knows that a truly strong woman who has healthy self respect wouldn't have put up with his BS for this long. She would have bailed after the first fudge ("I'm not dating anyone else IN YOUR AREA").

 

But again, enough women value a certain type of man enough to go along with whatever he wants to try to hang onto him. And sadly, the joke is on them when they realize they are not the only one he's playing with. Or they get discarded for the woman he doesn't want to lose.

[katrina1980]

Let's get off this "commitment phobia" thing.

 

No one, including myself, ever suggested that.

 

In fact, while it's a "possibility"- like anything else including him not giving a sh** - who cares, it's irrelevant.

[boltnrun]

Let's get off this "commitment phobia" thing.

 

No one, including myself, ever suggested that.

 

In fact, while it's a "possibility" like anything else including him not giving a sh**' who cares, it's irrelevant.

 

.

 

No one said you specifically said that.

 

I do wonder if AK is telling herself some kind of story to excuse his behavior.

[katrina1980]

No one said you did.

 

I realize that but I could sense this thread possibly going in that direction, and then OP could focus on that, and not the real issue, which is herself.

[katrina1980]

 

I do wonder if AK is telling herself some kind of story to excuse his behavior.

 

Yeah, exactly what I meant bolt.

 

Oh he has "commitment issues," "demons" - let me prove to him he has nothing to fear with me.

Arghh.

 

I could be wrong just what I am sensing after reading all her posts on this thread.

[katrina1980]

The irony is the more she twists herself, compromises herself, the less he will respect her, the less likely he will ever want to commit to her.

 

Her thinking is completely backwards.

[katrina1980]

Akr, apologies for coming down hard on you, directly or in the third person, I just think you deserve so much better, don't you?

 

No matter how intoxicating the chemistry with this guy.

 

While I do believe in lowering expectations in certain situations, that does not mean not having any or compromising yourself.

 

I truly do wish you the best of luck navigating all this.

[Wiseman2]

Very well said. Reflect on this:

It is not the job of another to construct your truth.

[boltnrun]

Wanting to "win" the unwinnable.

 

Wanting to be the Amal to his George Clooney.

 

Ego there.

 

Ego has led many down a very self-destructive path.

 

Don't be tempted to allow your ego to override your self-respect.

[Jibralta]

What does it matter what his thought process is about meeting his family?!?!?!

 

That’s the thought process of a woman who plans to stay.

 

Good observation.

 

And you seem to think the struggle makes him more valuable, desirable and it makes you want him MORE, not less.

 

In economics, that concept is known as Sunk Cost. In relationships, sunk cost is a fallacy that leads to a lot of bad decisions (like remaining attached to people who cheat on you and lie to you because you've been with them for a period of time or because you are unwilling to revise a certain set of fruitless ideals).

 

Akrngrl, if you google "sunk cost psychology" you will find a lot of articles on this decision-making process.

 

I’ve “pulled back”, whatever that means

 

If you don't know what it means, what are you even doing?

 

Have some intention in your actions, woman! Don't just flounder and flop around.

 

Plus it’s far from every man does this happen to me with.

 

Hard to separate because I post here about those guys that I’m addicted to so my history on here looks like it’s just that.

 

This seems contradictory to your earlier statement that your entire dating history is comprised of people who never chose you over one thing or another.

 

I found it hard to believe that he would go behind my back (not because I’m so great and wonderful and fabulous, I am, but that aside lol) because I gave him every opportunity to be able to be on the site, I’ve never presented myself (ever in my dating history) as unhinged or over emotional.

 

This is actually an interesting statement because it suggests a tendency to blame yourself. Do you think that if you had presented yourself as unhinged or over emotional that you would be to blame for him being on the site, that it would be the cause for him acting the way that he is?

 

Do you think that his actions have anything to do with you?

 

This is only happening to you because you think you deserve what you're getting.

 

Quit worrying so much about looking tough and aloof, and start thinking about the ways in which you're clinging to this anemic relationship.

 

Tough people don't take abuse or neglect. They turn it down.

 

I get the feeling that everyone still thinks I’m trying to turn him into my future significant other (and I can see why because who goes from “husband hunting” to “eh this will do for now”), but I really don’t think thats the case. At least not when I sit with myself now.

 

Well, you should go back and read some of your more recent posts. Or re-read this:

 

After last weekend I was fully content to just ride it out until he left and hop back on the apps in the interim until he returned and take it from there.

 

Why aren't you content to get off the merry-go-round and get on with your life?

 

I’m pretty sure it is! Is that strange? I absolutely hate being lied to, especially since, it’s not an act I swear haha, I’m so not a pressuring person to begin with. Hey you don’t like me anymore? Tell me! Especially if that’s our agreement.

 

I’m not, again though because he INSISTED he didn’t want to. I’m not because our agreement is still we’re not dating others and not on the apps so I never downloaded mine.

 

You both broke the agreement. He outright broke it, and you broke it by remaining with him after he broke it. An agreement is useless if there are no consequences.

 

I tried to get a more permanent procedure, but apparently where I moved to, my doctor thinks I’m incapable of making my own decisions and refused because I was single and that was a discussion to have when I was married because I might regret it ::facepalm::

 

::sympathy facepalm::

 

My only issue with that is that the “expectation” (no dating apps/no dating) was reiterated last weekend, so now if I turn around and go on I’m essentially the “guilty” one and doing what he did to me last week.

 

Oh, bullsh*t. Why do you insist on clinging to this agreement that you are BOTH incapable of honoring?

 

I try not to think people are calculated/put a lot of effort into being sneaky

 

Why not?? Why are you deliberately avoiding a specific conclusion that could actually be reality? I know... It will make you look needy or unhinged.

 

Very, very silly.

[figureitout23]

Y'all are preaching this morning!

[katrina1980]

Deleted.

 

Changed my mind, sorry guys.

[Wiseman2]

Ok then this is what you want and what you claim. However that still does not make LDRs an end goal for other people. You are driving the problems with the mindset of "can't leave the area, no men I want nearby". Keep in mind any guy you date long distance will be in a more populous area and not have to bother enduring a LDR. Heck people in remote or rural areas have found partners since the beginning of time. But you can't?

 

That is something you have imposed on yourself but can not impose on others, including this guy. Of course he will date locally given he has more options than you claim you have. Why would anyone want a "committed LDR" indefinitely? Makes no sense for those who are healthy and flexible enough to have more options.

I love where I am and I’ve done very well for myself. There is no one within a 60 mile radius of me though so anyone would be a bit of a trek unless they’re just in town for a bit like this fella.