Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

[Batya33]

nd "we all know this, but, somehow, when it comes to romance we all want to be virgins again. Pure. Slate cleaned. No red flags. We want that because, when it's good, it can FEEL like that, in flashes, as maybe you felt during those connect-y moments. That's the drug. And a relationship generally happens because the drug is powerful enough for the rest of the glue to have time to set. And every single relationship, even if it lasts only a night, is basically insane, a logic system onto itself. It holds as long as it does. "

 

No Bluecastle. Maybe you do. I don't, and the people I know who might feel this way are people who are into the thrill of the chase and short term "relationships" as you call them (I call them dating, flings, etc but that's ok!!). In my world an exclusive and HEALTHY relationship happens because even if there is an initial infatuation both people want to get to know each other in reality, if they have those notions of "virgin" or whatever you wrote the focus is not on that fantasy la la land but in keeping head in the clouds (because it's so fun!!) and feet on the ground (to stay centered). You can have both -all the excitement and staying the course so you don't ignore red flags or settle because he/she is so hot. It's not "insane" because the person who wants a long term relationship chooses to enjoy the "insanity" while also staying sane in the ways that matter.

And the OP can still make choices despite feeling that strong chemistry. And that way it holds longer than the initial infatuation - if you're with the right person who's not just right because of chemistry. Her question was whether to give him another chance and I assume it’s to see if there’s potential for the long term

[catfeeder]

I'd hand the guy a rope. Either he'll use it constructively, or he'll hang himself.

 

I'd respond, "Would you be interested in seeing me if we took any talk of sex off the table for a month or two and just relaxed into getting to know one another?"

 

Boom, done. Either he'll react to that in a stupid way and you can block him, or, he'll accept an opportunity to pipe down and learn how to 'date' and bond with someone human-to-human without oversexualizing.

 

Nobody says you can't ditch the no-sex idea if things go well enough for YOU. But since sex is such a provocative issue for him that it turns him into a senseless clod, why not learn what would happen if you move that barrier out of the way? If he genuinely likes you, he may be willing to do that. If not, then he's just answered ALL of your questions.

 

Head high.

[Batya33]

I like this type of compromise and reality check.

[katrina1980]

My final take to the OP.

 

Fio, folks are correct, calling you "crazy" in the heat iof the moment was a red flag. To some, maybe even you, a big red flag.

 

But reading your original post, discussing in great detail how *awesome* your dates were, which I assume to mean fun, lots of great energy and mutually *respectful." He did not push for sex and respected your boundaries in that regard.

 

This should account for *something* at least in my opinion.

 

Re the sexting, yeah he pushed a boundary, but as soon as you voiced how not cool that was, he apologized profusely.

 

This should also account for something imo.

 

Given this, I am sure he also regrets allowing his emotions to get the best of him and calling you crazy.

 

As I said, it very much appears emotions were flying high on both sides and you fully admit there were a few red flags on your side too! You owned it!

 

So my advice is why not meet him and talk. If the energy between you wasn't at it is, I'd say no but again the type of energy /chemisrty you have described doesn't grow on trees, it's very rare.

 

Lay out boundaries, given how remorseful he felt about the sexting, he seems open to accepting and respecting.

 

IF after talking, you both decide to move forward, gauge actions (and words) and if it appears he has trouble containing anger and lashes out again, feel free to next him!

 

Also, for you, ask him what was it about your behavior that confused and frustrated him. If it's justified, then work on YOU, which you fully admit is still broken at least on some level.

 

Forgive each other these minor or nor not so minor red flags and see how it plays out.

 

Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[SweetGirl28]

There's good men out there, and this does not appear to be one of them that's worth investing time and emotions in.

[reinventmyself]

Well, some of that was so awkward and cringe worthy.

For me, I'd be done. But my tolerance for these things is either really low or non existent.

 

But. . .what I do see is two people who enjoy each others in person company, but things tend to go off the rails electronically.

 

I don't know how you come back from being called crazy and chopped up some where. . But. . (another but) If you do have any further communication with this guy I'd come up with some ground rules. Point out the pattern of the misunderstandings that happen thru text compared to how well you get along in person and agree-to-agree that you will limit texting and make phone calls instead.

[figureitout23]

Hey guys thanks for all your replies, I've read everyone and hear you all.

 

Blue and Kat in reference to my own baggage, I believe at this point is manageable. I don't consider myself broken, I wouldn't be dating if I did. Scarred, with my hand on the exit button far to often absolutely, but not broken. That was part of the reason he was confused is my understanding, I was constantly ending things. My issue comes in where I dont have practice with my newfound ability to walk away, so I wonder to myself if I am ejecting too prematurely. Kat you remember the guy I dated last year, I ended things because he was overly jealous. He didnt call me names or anything like that, he was just possessive and I saw that, that would be an issue because while I would want to respect him, I also didn't want to change my life, so deep down I know I made the right choice ending things, but every now and then I think to myself, did I end that too abruptly? I guess I need more practice. That uncertainty, I think may also be why I kept going back and forth about things. My dating mistakes, I think, are caused from a lack of experience dating with confidence. Theyre mistakes, for sure, but hopefully I will get better at them.

 

I hear everyone who feels I am purposely ignoring huge red flags. I'm not desperate to date. In fact, I am far too comfortable being single at this point, I'm not sure if thats an asset or a hindrance. Anyway my point is I am not going to just accept any kind of treatment to have someone. Its hard for me because his questionable actions are solely via text so I ended things solely because of text. TEXT MESSAGES! So this is not a black and white issue to me. Was he wrong? Absolutely. Does he deserve to explain himself, part of me thinks he does.

 

So UPDATE

 

So no meet up or text yesterday. This morning he texted: hey good morning, what you up to?

 

To me, hes asking because he wants to ask me out somewhere so we can talk. I drafted this text:

 

Hey (his name) thank you for reaching out, I know that wasn't easy for you.So instead of small talk why dont I just rip the bandaid off? We had an awesome connection, but for whatever reason things just didn't click. I would love to explore things with you but I dont think now is the right time. We both have some stuff to work through and I dont want to ruin what we could potentially have.

 

I have not sent it.

 

As soon as I reread it my first thought was, I'm pushing him away and ending things AGAIN, thats how its coming off to me. This would be end #4 and its via text he and I's worst form of communication

 

I mean what Im saying, Ok I lied about us both having to work through things its him all him, LMAO, but besides that I mean what I typed, I dont think he is dating material right now. I think he has the potential to be, but I'm not wanting the task of walking him through that, I dont want to sift through his baggage, its not fair to me. We all have baggage and histories but when its taking down the boat, its your responsibility to handle your sh*t. When you handle your sh*t, we can date.To me, the damage done is manageable at this point IF we end things go our separate ways and if down the line find one another, try in a healthy manner. He cant give me that right now though and I recognize that

 

But how do I say it without it coming off as brush off # 4?

 

Again, I definitely want that to be my answer but how do I say it

[Batya33]

So I don't mean this to come across as flattery but just from what I've read from your posts I wish I had had that level of spunk and confidence for way more of the time I dated. It's just a sense i get, yes it's a compliment no not meant as flattery.

 

Here's what I would do. IF you want to continue the conversation I'd text back "when is a good time for you to talk". And talk on the phone. When you have at least 10-15 minutes to have a back and forth convo.

[katrina1980]

Hey FIO, let's flip this around.

 

Guy creates a thread about a woman he's dating (or dated). You.

 

He explains -- Their dates have been some of the best of his life. Great energy, great connection. She agrees, so it's mutual.

 

But he admits he's not the greatest texter, an anxious texter, and things never seem to go right when texting.

 

As such, his date becomes frustrated and has ended things with him three times!! A total push/pull, it's crazy! (Again, HIS perspective).

 

It's like clockwork, after every great date, high energy and great connection, she pushes me away!! We manage to patch it up, but then lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Another awesome date, great connection after which I screw up a text and she ends it.

 

One night I lost it which I totally regret, I became frustrated and called her crazy, which I didn't mean I was just frustrated by the situation. And that was that, it was over.

 

But I really dig this girl, like REALLY dig her, so I reached out, I miss her I want to try again.

 

I have not heard back yet, but did I make the right decision reaching out ?

 

Or are there too many red flags with her pushing me away all the time?

 

--------

 

So I ask you FIO, what would you advise him?

 

Edit: I hope you do not take offense to this, that was not my intention. Just wanted you take a look at things from his perspective.

 

If I don't have it right, I apologize.

[Batya33]

I think referring to being bad at texting is simplifying it. He is an adult. Bad at texting to me means coming across awkward or not being clear, or not responding in any timely fashion etc. He was disrespectful and insulting. He made choices to express himself that way in writing. Instead of, for example, walking away and telling himself that even though he felt frustrated or angry or irritable he'd take a deep breath and not respond or just respond "thanks, talk to you later". Or even the more open "I want to think before I respond". Even choosing to communicate about this level of personal stuff by texting is part of the choice -part of who he is -it's not just "bad at texting". Adults who are healthy and mature know that hiding behind a screen when you're angry and lashing out like that or insulting someone by texting is not only wrong, it's cowardly. Not a good look. People who get fired for inappropriate emails or texts can't use the "well I was just bad at emailing" excuse either.

[journeynow]

I sort of have this idea about what adulthood is. We spend time out there in the world, just getting dirty. The older we get, the filthier our clothes. No two ways around it. All we can do is learn to wear filthy clothes with grace. And, with that, we all hit and we all miss.

 

Nothing wrong with cleaning up a bit, bathing, washing those clothes, and getting some R&R before heading out again. Wrinkles, scars, and trick knees, some of those we bring with us.

[figureitout23]

Thank you Bat. I appreciate your comments about my confidence.

 

Kat, no offense taken at all. I'm positive his view of things is different from mine and I would be a liar if I said there wasn't some validity to his frustrations with me. And while Im on the fence about whether or not I had valid reasons to act, I know they were all valid reasons to take pause. His actions push me away. I wish they didnt but they do. I dont know how to fix that, nor do I believe it is up to me to fix. Thats why after much thought I think its best to just put things on the back burner. God forbid, we continue and he doesnt get in control of his anxiety and/or insecurities and he says or does something that cant be overlooked. Once is a mistake, twice... I think its best to take myself out of the situation and give him, me, us a chance to take stock of what occurred.

 

If he doesnt work on himself, thats ok, I can be happy with the good memories and take this as a lesson learned, because I definitely learned where my shortcoming lie.

 

If he does and we find ourselves back at it, even better.

 

I can live with either one of those

 

What I wont be able to live with is putting myself in another situation where I am potentially damaging me.

[journeynow]

Even choosing to communicate about this level of personal stuff by texting is part of the choice -part of who he is -it's not just "bad at texting".

 

Good point. It may be that he's good at making a good impression in person, at these early stages, but behind the scenes there is another side, and it's leaking out through texts.

[katrina1980]

@fio, the take away from my last post is if it were me, I would not wish to try again.

 

I would spend time reflecting on my behavior to determine why I was so quick to pull the trigger. Three times within such a short period.

 

Either you are completely incompatible and should have stopped after the first time, or you have a fear of relationships/commitment and subconsciously push men away when there is a strong connection, leading to a possible relationship/ commitment.

 

I would not try it again for the simple reason it's not fair to him, should it happen again.

 

Edit: I just read your last post, and agree! Let this one go. There will be others with whom this does not happen, hopefully

[figureitout23]

@fio, the take away from my last post is if it were me, I would not wish to try again.

 

I would spend time reflecting on my behavior to determine why I was so quick to pull the trigger. Three times within such a short period.

 

Either you are completely incompatible and should have stopped after the first time, or you have a fear of relationshios/commitment and subconsciously push men away when there is a strong connection, leading to a possible relationship/ commitment.

 

I would not try it again for the simple reason it's not fair to the guy, should it happen again.

 

Edit: I just read your last post, and agree! Let this one go. There will be others with whom this does not happen, hopefully

 

I'm not choosing to let it go. Just putting it on ice. :)

 

I hear you though, he doesn't deserve to be hurt and neither do I. I don't think its incompatibility, fear, insecurity, anxiety, so many things stood in the way. It sucks, definitely a hard pill to swallow, but I'll learn from this.

 

My question now is how to express to him where my mind is at without it coming off as a brush off? I think at the very least a phone call is in order.

[Batya33]

I'm not choosing to let it go. Just putting it on ice. :)

 

I hear you though, he doesn't deserve to be hurt and neither do I. I don't think its incompatibility, fear, insecurity, anxiety, so many things stood in the way. It sucks, definitely a hard pill to swallow, but I'll learn from this.

 

My question now is how to express to him where my mind is at without it coming off as a brush off? I think at the very least a phone call is in order.

 

I would call and avoid being flowery or blunt. In the middle. "hey, thanks for getting in touch. I hope you're well. I'm just not in the right place right now to be in touch with you - I hope you understand and no hard feelings" (obviously let him do his side of the convo). I thought about whether you should leave the door slightly open but I wouldn't - the "right place right now" says enough on that issue. And I don't want him to feel led on I guess.

 

Good luck.

[katrina1980]

Good point. It may be that he's good at making a good impression in person, at these early stages, but behind the scenes there is another side, and it's leaking out through texts.

 

Hold on a sec, who he is in person *is* the REAL him!

 

How he expresses himself through text does not refect the real him, isn't that what everyone (the majority) on this forum keep saying?

 

That people place too much emphasis on texting and should instead meet, spend time together in person?

 

Now it appears you're saying the opposite, that the real him comes out when texting? And in person he puts on some facade or something? Trying to make a good impression?

 

Totally confused now!

 

Maybe the simple answer is to just stop texting! Spend more time together in person, even if they're just quick coffee dates. Use texting to schedule the dates, period.

[Batya33]

Hold on a sec, who he is in person *is* the REAL him!

 

How he expresses himself through text does not refect the real him, isn't that what everyone (the majority) on this forum keep saying?

 

That people place too much emphasis on texting and should instead meet, spend time together in person?

 

Now it appears you're saying the opposite, that the real him comes out when texting? And in person he puts on some facade or something? Trying to make a good impression?

 

Totally confused now!

 

Maybe the answer to just stop texting! Spend more time together in person, even if they're just quick coffee dates. Use texting to schedule the dates, period.

 

No I don't agree with this. I agree that if you want to date someone you have to meet in person ASAP and not try to start a relationship by typing texts. I think how you choose to communicate says a lot about who you are. In every way. It's all a cumulative picture of who he is. For example I learned early on when e-mail was new not to send an email when I was upset/angry or about personal stuff that was negative. I learned how people can misinterpret what you write so easily. That overwhelming someone with emails is a bad idea (I don't think I did this but I was the recipient).

 

Yes people should not over text of course and get to know each other in person. But if a person attacks you over text or in writing that matters -then there is no need to meet in person IMO with rare exception. That's not the same at all as the notion of getting to know someone in person. That's a separate idea. What I'm talking about is hiding behind a screen to personally attack someone. That is the real person -that person made a choice to communicate in that way in a negative and inappropriate way (if also inappropriate).

 

About two years ago I was close with a childhood friend again and we'd been close again for years. She was in a bad mood and jealous that I'd gotten a job (I didn't know about the former at the time, sensed the latter). We spoke by phone and we also emailed. She tended to act harsher on email than on the phone but she spoke in a harsh way too. And the final straw which led to me cutting her off for quite awhile was because of an email she sent that was meant to try and make me feel badly about one of the parenting challenges I now faced given my new job -a challenge I had shared with her. It was a final straw but yes it was an email and yes it mattered even though it was typed not spoken. Much later she apologized. She recognized that what she wrote was just as harmful -maybe even more -than had she said those words to me. And when i resumed contact with her I kept it very limited. I was not going to open myself up to being attacked that way again. Email or phone or person -no difference. And yes I saved emails from work that were inappropriate from supervisors in case I ever needed them for some reason. It didn't matter to me at all that it was written rather than spoken as far as who the "real" person was.

 

I feel very strongly about this that these are two very different ideas about communication.

[katrina1980]

I'm sorry B you don't agree with what exactly. Your post confused me, as I said same thing as you.

 

Forget texting, meet and spend time in person!!

 

Use text to schedule the date.

 

Texting can be so ambiguous, misinterpretations, misunderstandings.

 

We need less text, more in person.

 

Texting = negative energy.

 

In Person= positive energy.

 

FIO said their in person dates were AWESOME. That's the real him, focus on that, not his text messages.

[thornz]

He asked the night of, so my immediate reaction was. I do not do same night invites! NEXT!.

 

So you set yourself a rule but broke it and it turns out he’s a high maintenance mess that you are still considering dating? Why? From your post it sounded like he was frustrating, immature and made you feel uncomfortable on multiple occasions and you tolerated his behaviour and even modified your own to try and reduce your negative reaction.

 

Should have stuck to your next. He sounds like a nightmare. Also I suspect you would bring out the absolute worst in each other as he seems to trigger an insecure response from you too.

 

Keep looking and keep working on yourself. You can find someone who doesn’t act so clingy, try and use sex/sexting as a validation technique, throw strops, gaslight, give silent treatment etc. So much drama.

[Batya33]

I'm sorry B you don't agree with what exactly. Your post confused me, as I said same thing as you.

 

Forget texting, meet and spend time in person!!

 

Use text to schedule the date.

 

Texting can be so ambiguous, lots if ambiguities, misinterpretations.

 

We need less text, more in person.

 

FIO said their in person dates were AWESOME. That's the real him, focus on that, not his text messages.

 

I was speaking of a separate issue. Personally attacking someone. When you do that it doesn't matter if it is on text or in person and has nothing to do with dating specifically. And in some cases it is even worse if done by text. Hope that clears up the distinction I am making.

 

Certainly typed words can be misinterpreted as a personal attack. Misinterpreted as inappropriate too What he wrote to me was clear as day. He called her crazy in the context she provided. So I don't care a bit that it was typed rather than spoken other than IMO it's cowardly to personally attack like he did by text. So that's added on to the inappropriate part.

 

As a completely separate matter I think it's a bad idea to text a lot before meeting and to use text as a primary way to get to know someone who is new in your life. And as a way to talk about personal stuff because of just those risks. He called her crazy over text and in the context she provided there was no misinterpretation. I disagree with you that just because in person he didn't call her names or personally attack her that it's ok he does that by text. It's not. IMO. I wasn't making a general statement. I was talking about his specific personal attack toward her, someone he apparently wanted to date and have sex with.

[Capricorn3]

FIO said their in person dates were AWESOME. That's the real him, focus on that, not his text messages.

I see it differently. To me, his text messages are very telling. He's clearly showing the other side of him and it is THAT side which he keeps "hidden". It is specifically that side which one should take heed of (imo). I have seen these scenarios so many times in real life. People on best behaviour in the "wooing" stages, trying to impress etc etc. Then when they have their man/woman, slowly they show the other side of themselves. It is their "real" side coming through. I would head for the hills.

 

(Sorry, yet another thread I didn't want to enter at all). ~slinks away~

[SherrySher]

I agree, Capricorn.

 

I have had the experience first hand with a man very similar. Those "confused" texts should be taken seriously and looked at as your first warning signs.

They are real.

This guy definitely has sides to him that are not attractive and have started to come out through texts.

It will get worse.

[Batya33]

I see it differently. To me, his text messages are very telling. He's clearly showing the other side of him and it is THAT side which he keeps "hidden". It is specifically that side which one should take heed of (imo). I have seen these scenarios so many times in real life. People on best behaviour in the "wooing" stages, trying to impress etc etc. Then when they have their man/woman, slowly they show the other side of themselves. It is their "real" side coming through. I would head for the hills.

 

(Sorry, yet another thread I didn't want to enter at all). ~slinks away~

 

I once went on a date with a suave, sophisticated guy -we met through an online site but we had several friends in common. He was very cultured, wealthy, educated. I found him really stiff in person and awkward and I struggled through dinner. He called me and emailed me a few days later to ask me out. I think I told him on the phone and responded to his email and very politely declined. He emailed me several times over the next hour with nasty comments about me and offering to set me up with his friend but in a nasty, mean way making all sorts of inappropriate assumptions. I responded to none of them and may have even blocked them because I got concerned. For years after one of his women friends would regularly mention him to me and one time I told her what he had done. She didn't believe me. I don't think I had the emails anymore and anyway I doubt I would have sent them to her -what's the point. My point is that many saw him as this kind of socially awkward but extremely brilliant and successful guy -women who had never been on a date with him. They didn't know that other side.

[figureitout23]

Kat, I agree SO much. In fact I thought plenty of times, 'things would be so perfect if he would stop with the texts.' I couldn't figure out how to stop them though. In retrospect I should have done more to fix that.

 

Thorn, I hear you, he triggered my insecurities and I think I triggered his too and I think its what led to our demise. Was it our worst or our raw selves seen far too soon?