Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

[Batya33]

The right (or more acceptable) response would have been something like "I know I was out of line and I apologize. I should not have said what I said. I hope you'll give me a chance to make it up to you". Not "why do we have to talk about it?"

 

I think you made the right decision.

 

Summed up very nicely, I agree. Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood, a children's show has the refrain that if you apologize you not only say "sorry" but "how can I help" and in this case he half said sorry and wasn't interested in helping to make amends, i.e. by talking it out for starters.

 

Good for you for standing your ground.

[SweetGirl28]

Summed up very nicely, I agree. Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood, a children's show has the refrain that if you apologize you not only say "sorry" but "how can I help" and in this case he half said sorry and wasn't interested in helping to make amends, i.e. by talking it out for starters.

 

Good for you for standing your ground.

 

I'm seriously confused here lol. How is this on the guy? He showed his dumb true colors, he was silent for a month and a half, then he's expected to apologize and be understanding? He's not gonna change! He's still the same person he was before. It's on the op for entertaining the thought of another chance. There's no need to waste time and effort on people who turn you off so early on. Next them and forget it.

 

I know if this wasn't her, and someone else posted, she would have advised to forget him.

[figureitout23]

sweetgirl - I appreciate you responding and I read it all, it’s just very different from how I interpreted things. We very often don’t see the world with the same lens though so I guess it’s to be expected.

 

Journey - no you are correct the convo in question was completely via text, we never seemed to have a heated convo in person or even on the phone. I just didn’t word it correctly. Can’t say I’m sure why I made that mistake, but I don’t know that it would have made a difference. I got the impression he wasn’t open to rehashing that incident.

 

Bolt - I agree. ‘why do you feel we need to talk about it’ was the turning point of the conversation for me. I wasn’t sure if I took it the wrong way but others seem to have taken it the same. I don’t regret my decision, I only regret having to be the one to shut things down again. If for no other reason I feel it appears to him that I’m just a commitmentphobe and he isn’t going to realize how big of a role his actions played. But that’s just my ego throwing a fit, hopefully that feeling passes in a day or two.

[figureitout23]

Summed up very nicely, I agree. Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood, a children's show has the refrain that if you apologize you not only say "sorry" but "how can I help" and in this case he half said sorry and wasn't interested in helping to make amends, i.e. by talking it out for starters.

 

Good for you for standing your ground.

 

Yep, that’s also how I took it. Halfa** apology.

 

I realize he simply didn’t want to go down that road but, he did it to me, his action albeit via text affected me, and I wanted to go down that road so he should have respected that enough, especially if he wanted to continue dating, but he didn’t so that’s that!

[Batya33]

I'm seriously confused here lol. How is this on the guy? He showed his dumb true colors, he was silent for a month and a half, then he's expected to apologize and be understanding? He's not gonna change! He's still the same person he was before. It's on the op for entertaining the thought of another chance. There's no need to waste time and effort on people who turn you off so early on. Next them and forget it.

 

I know if this wasn't her, and someone else posted, she would have advised to forget him.

 

I don't agree. I see validity in her reaching out by phone one more time. She didn't waste time seeing him in person, she had a phone call. People do change, people might not know how hurtful something was taken. Would I have spoken to him again. Probably not. But that's me and it doesn't make my choice right for anyone else (and frankly maybe not for me either). It's not about "expected" -my takeaway was that the OP wanted to see if he would sincerely apologize as part of his desire to date her again. Not an "expectation" -he doesn't have to at all -only if he wants to try and date her again.

 

I nexted someone many years ago because after two months of lovely charming behavior he chose to get drunk, treat me rudely in front of his parents who I'd just met (and who were lovely) and then blow me off for a date the next day at his parents' house. On New Years. I was DONE. He called to apologize and i found his call, the timing, too little too late. And then he had his father contact me because his father had offered a second opinion on a dental issue I was having. I called the office to decline the appointment. Never spoke to him again.

 

Now, that was my boundary. He was a jerk and obnoxious. I know several healthy women who would have taken his call and heard him out, possibly even seen him again. For me it was a no brainer. And no, he didn't physically or sexually assault me -nothing at all like that. Yes if FIO had posted anything like that I would have begged her not to have any contact with him again. No matter what. Even if "people can change". I do think people can change. I'm married because I changed. So did my husband as far as the two of us being right together when we were not in the past.

[SherrySher]

I agree with Batya, made perfect sense to talk once more to make sure she knew exactly what was what.

 

Yeah, he made mistakes but it also gives better closure to know for sure that you didn't make a mistake at all in ending things.

 

I think you did the right thing, FIO.

[figureitout23]

I'm seriously confused here lol. How is this on the guy? He showed his dumb true colors, he was silent for a month and a half, then he's expected to apologize and be understanding? He's not gonna change! He's still the same person he was before. It's on the op for entertaining the thought of another chance. There's no need to waste time and effort on people who turn you off so early on. Next them and forget it.

 

I know if this wasn't her, and someone else posted, she would have advised to forget him.

 

Sweetgirl, I can and will share ideas and discuss my expierience with you, and hear out your advice. But please know, because I’ve been here a minute, I’m going to be able to spot if you’re simply trying to ‘stick it to me’ because you don’t like my posting style as has been referenced multiple times at this point.

 

When asking for advice many people, including myself, arent capable of seeing the big picture because they are in the situation. So even when I saw what I perceived as red flags and my instinct was to walk away, when push came to shove, I didn’t have confidence enough to stand by my decision. I own that. That doesn’t mean I don’t stand by the advice I give to others. It doesn’t mean I don’t try to hold myself accountable, it means I’m human and I didn’t see the situation as black and white as I maybe should have and needed advice seeing things through.

[figureitout23]

Thank you Bat and sherry. I am learning through practice to strengthen my ability to not only walk away but feel confident in my decision to walk away.

 

All in all. I feel good about how this dating venture closed.

[Batya33]

Thank you Bat and sherry. I am learning through practice to strengthen my ability to not only walk away but feel confident in my decision to walk away.

 

All in all. I feel good about how this dating venture closed.

 

Yes, it's that confidence -that peaceful feeling -that's a real gem. It will stay with you and not just with this situation.

[SweetGirl28]

Well yes it's true when directly involved, it's harder to see things. From reading this, after you feeling off put by him, then NC for 1 1/2 months, I can't see trying again. When there's real feelings involved of course most of us will fall back and try. But this wasn't the case, so that's why I say I know your posts to others, and you would have said to next him.

 

For women out there dating, using OLD you really have to screen these men and listen. I've blown so many off. It's hard when you're not dealing with the young generation. The older these men are, the more baggage they carry. I learned to avoid men twice married, unless one spouse died. No men just divorced, no men separated, no men out of LTR's. No men where an ex is orbiting with hopes of reconciling. These guys they give away clues pretty easily as to their character. I can figure them out using reverse psychology quite easily as to their intent. Of course if there's a really strong attraction we can fail ourselves by trying to overlook things. It's all a learning process.

 

I still say though, for some of these men, it's the trashier type women making it hard for women of integrity to get in the game and be taken seriously. It's not like it used to be decades ago, where people cared about not being so disposable of others, you know? It's too easy to meet and hook up online. What if OLD disappeared? I think it would be better. I think people would remember to respect others, to see value. Maybe that's just wishful thinking. With OLD , leaving a majority to feel like they are being played, they take that out on the next person. If you entangle with a man who entangles himself with women who don't respect themselves, he will treat you that way as well if you try to call him out and excuse it. Yes they will say sorry, but they'll do it again, because it's how they learned to be towards women.

 

It's a crapshoot, most definitely. But I wish you luck.

[Batya33]

I don't agree that online dating changed dating much. I started dating in the late 1970s. In the 80s we had personal print ads (and those phone lines which I did not do) and for part of the 90s no online dating sites. I was very used to meeting many men -volume -because in my social circles blind dates and fixing people up was very common -we all did it -so I met many "strangers" and almost always no photos and usually a phone call, that's it. So maybe my perspective is different.

 

I think OLD allows those who already have a candy store mentality to dating (which was true when we met people in bars, singles dances, clubs etc as well -again, lots of volume in the major city I did all of my dating in) to express that mentality. People who are serious minded might initially have the candy store rush but if they're truly serious about finding a long term relationship then that fades really fast and they're selective about who they meet. That was true from all I saw over the many years I was on OLD and watching my friends meet their spouses - one of them met 400 women in person he said before he met his wife but when I dated him he was very selective and not sleeping around (much- a bit of that but not because of candy store issues).

 

For me it was an awesome way to meet a potential spouse given my crazy work schedule and my ticking clock. I met men in several other ways. And I did the candy store thing at first ,and it would revive temporarily after a breakup from an LTR - but temporarily.

 

Decades ago I experienced vicariously the same people who settled for scraps. No difference because of OLD. The same people who treated other people scrappily. They met in bars and dance clubs and parties. And I sometimes had to "train" people to treat me with respect -not to call me for a last minute Saturday night hang out (no lectures, I'd just decline and if they wanted to see me they realized they had to call in advance), not to talk to me about sexual stuff they'd like to do before it was appropriate to do so, etc.

 

I wouldn't blame technology -it's how people use it. Does it make it easier if you're inclined to treat people as disposable? Of course! But only if you're first inclined that way.

 

Oh and I think OLD is a great way to find companions, dates, short term casual relationships too -and I am not at all implying that those people are treating others as disposable or have a candy store mentality, etc. Certainly they can be just as respectful and thoughtful within what they are looking for and not looking for. There's always a way to treat people with respect whether or not you see them as long term partners or even want one.

[SweetGirl28]

Batya, lol I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about OLD but woman! Ugh....I'm telling you, it's a challenge. To find a gem that's gonna go the long run is truly like having a part time job, in addition to the full time job you already have.

It's very hard to feel that spark and be compatible as well , inline morals, values, and match where you are in life. There's plenty of good looking men though! :)

 

Ok, nuff said about that. That's a whole other topic for another thread. Sorry FIO.

[Batya33]

Batya, lol I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about OLD but woman! Ugh....I'm telling you, it's a challenge. To find a gem that's gonna go the long run is truly like having a part time job, in addition to the full time job you already have.

It's very hard to feel that spark and be compatible as well , inline morals, values, and match where you are in life. There's plenty of good looking men though! :)

 

Ok, nuff said about that. That's a whole other topic for another thread. Sorry FIO.

 

Yes and I agree. Yes it was more than a part time job for me (just through OLD I met 100 men in person or more). Yes I easily could have met my husband through OLD except he made a silly mistake on his profile that meant he would never appear in my search parameters. He is a true gem.

[itsallgrand]

Good job, FIO. :)

 

You are a smart lady so don't forget it. You deserve a pat in the back from yourself !

[katrina1980]

Allow me to chime in with some thoughts.

 

I met my current bf via OLD so there *are* most definitely gems out there! It was my second meet!!

 

That's not to say there aren't *losers* too but there are loser men everywhere, the same men you meet on OLD, other women met IRL. The same guys!

 

Men are men (just as women are women) doesn't matter a hill of beans where or how you met them.

 

OLD isn't the problem, dating in general is the problem, it's a freakin mine field! And men struggle too!!

 

I would also like to chime in on behalf of FIO and her opinions on this forum and posting style.

 

I disagree she would have advised another poster to just next him. She may come across as brash sometimes (sorry FIO) but she is always fair and always HONEST!

 

I recall on the thread I created about my bf before we met in person. He dropped off for four days and virtually everyone had advised that the guy was a loser and to block him!

 

I followed my gut and texted him, he responded back within ten minutes and we made a plan to meet.

 

Others were adamant that was a mistake that once a guy suddenly drops off, he will drop off again. Once a flake, always a flake. Many had all sorts of things to say about the reason he gave for droppimg off too.

 

FiO was the only one who said otherwise! That the reason he gave for dropping off sounded sincere and he seemed like a straight up guy!

 

She was right! That was a 6.5 months ago! Thanks FIO for having my back on that one.

 

I'm sorry things with this guy didn't work out; I think you did the right thing by talking with him once more; people can and do change upon reflection.

 

He didn't, but he might have, you gave it a shot, it didn't work out, now you know and can move forward with confidence knowing this guy is not for you.

[SweetGirl28]

Four days of your guy dropping off doesn't equal 1 1/2 months of silence and things that clearly made her uncomfortable with him, Kat. It's not even all about the drooping off, there were reasons why. Clear reasons why.

 

It does matter how you meet, because some men(and women) on OLD are scammers, married, sexual predators, and the like. Especially the free and cheaper sites. It's a players haven to prey on weak people. That's harder to do IRL. Of course there's good and bad online and by chance meet ups out in person. Just need to be really careful, always. Look at how many were exposed from the Ashley Madison scandal. Lives destroyed . Marriages crumbled. Point is, no matter how you meet, keep eyes and ears open. Don't accept anything less than what you want.

[Batya33]

Four days of your guy dropping off doesn't equal 1 1/2 months of silence and things that clearly made her uncomfortable with him, Kat. It's not even all about the drooping off, there were reasons why. Clear reasons why.

 

It does matter how you meet, because some men(and women) on OLD are scammers, married, sexual predators, and the like. Especially the free and cheaper sites. It's a players haven to prey on weak people. That's harder to do IRL. Of course there's good and bad online and by chance meet ups out in person. Just need to be really careful, always. Look at how many were exposed from the Ashley Madison scandal. Lives destroyed . Marriages crumbled. Point is, no matter how you meet, keep eyes and ears open. Don't accept anything less than what you want.

 

Yes it does matter how you meet for safety purposes for sure -including at bars or anywhere where you don't know anyone in common etc and before the internet/google it was even harder to screen for safety -or impossible. I don't think it's harder to do IRL. It's only easier for people who choose to date online. People who use online sites to meet in person ASAP can then assess things IRL faster.

[katrina1980]

Agree with B.

 

The way I did it was text a bit, assess what I could that way, then meet. I can't even count the number of men I weeded out via texting.

 

Two sounded promising (including my bf) so we met in person. No click with the first, then I met my bf. And here we are!

 

The men I met IRL, lost count of how many I weeded out, but it was ALOT.

 

Agree wth keeping eyes and ears open and pay attention. Never accept less than what you want, no matter where or how you meet.

[figureitout23]

I can’t give a full response right now because I’m super busy this morning but just wanted to pop on to say, he didn’t ghost me, we literally ended things. It wasn’t NC, it wasn’t a breakup in the general sense, he wasn’t my boyfriend and I didn’t love him, we stopped taking because we were no longer dating so I took no issue for it taking a month and a half for him to reach out. I had zero intention of reaching out to him and He was done as well as far as I’m concerned. I think it’s been established, I don’t see the need to be friends with exes and he wasn’t even an ex! So even less of a reason to keep in touch.

 

The true reason he reached back out can be any number of things from he was upset and pinning this whole time to he hit a rough patch datibg and needed an ego boost. I don’t take issue to the timing: I personally feel he genuinely wanted to try again but he didn’t meet my level of expectations and boundaries. Doesn’t mean he’s a monster screwing a bunch of other women and abusing them and baby kittens.

[figureitout23]

Agree with your last post Kat. I am trying to live by that standard.

[maew]

Thank you.

 

I'm definitely going to continue dating, like I said before, I was ok with where things ended because I can still look back fondly on the memories and learn from it. I dont have any ill will towards him, we just didnt mesh. Im ok with that

 

Im slow moving with dating, but Im fully open to other prospects. Hes out there :)

 

I am late to the party on this very active thread it would seem... just wanted to throw my thoughts in... I haven't read all the threads so I am not sure where this is now...

 

My first instinct when I read your OP was to run, run away from this guy! And yet... you guys called and talked and communicated which I very much admire. This is a quality I think is lacking in today's world of online dating and "nexting"... being willing to talk through things to see if something is a one off, or if there is more to the story... sometimes we are quick to dismiss people if they seem a bit "off" instead of taking a little time to get to know them better. I have done this many times and I know I have had it done to me. I think it's awesome that you gave it a go for a bit to see if it would continue or what the deal is.

 

It sounds like you are moving onwards and upwards, carry on :)

[Annia]

If you sleep with him he'll mellow out?

 

That friend gives awful advice. Are they a "must have a boyfriend at any cost!!" type?

 

He accused you of being crazy because you didn't want to sext. Done.

 

I have to agree with this. You two seem incompatible and the dude seems fishy or at least too concerned with sexting and sex in general, not letting the relationship flow naturally.

[Annia]

I'd hand the guy a rope. Either he'll use it constructively, or he'll hang himself.

 

I'd respond, "Would you be interested in seeing me if we took any talk of sex off the table for a month or two and just relaxed into getting to know one another?"

 

Boom, done. Either he'll react to that in a stupid way and you can block him, or, he'll accept an opportunity to pipe down and learn how to 'date' and bond with someone human-to-human without oversexualizing.

 

Nobody says you can't ditch the no-sex idea if things go well enough for YOU. But since sex is such a provocative issue for him that it turns him into a senseless clod, why not learn what would happen if you move that barrier out of the way? If he genuinely likes you, he may be willing to do that. If not, then he's just answered ALL of your questions.

 

Head high.

 

I really like this suggestion. It's a way of giving him the opportunity to either act mature and show he's relationship material or show his immaturity and ditch him knowing that you gave him a last chance. This is of course if the OP wanted to explore the possibility of a serious relationship with him. If it's casual sex or a short fling that the OP is looking for, then this doesn't apply that much.

[katrina1980]

I am not defending this guy at all, but re the sexting, after he sexted her, according to what fio posted in her initial post, she stated her boundary about it, he apologized and felt quite remorseful. Promised to never to it again. Said he really liked her and wanted to be in a relationship with her. Thus respecting her boundary.

 

My take was that his "crazy" comment came from a cumulation of things that had gone down between them that had been building up. His comments via text, fio's subsequent turning off and ending things, then taking it back. Lather rinse repeat two more times.

 

I am not criticizing fio, because I get her frustration, but I don't think anyone could deny that a woman ending things and then taking it back three times within a 1-2 month period might be a bit crazy making for a guy.

 

Not saying she didn't have good reason, she did, but perhaps it would have been best to walk away for good after the first time.

 

Of course, he should have contained his frustration and never said it. Absolutely!

 

But I don't think it's as black and white as him calling her crazy because she refused to sext with him.

 

That said, she did the right thing by ending it. It never would have worked, never ever. And his attitude last night when they chatted was the final nail in the coffin -- next and good riddance.

[Annia]

I don't agree that online dating changed dating much. I started dating in the late 1970s. In the 80s we had personal print ads (and those phone lines which I did not do) and for part of the 90s no online dating sites. I was very used to meeting many men -volume -because in my social circles blind dates and fixing people up was very common -we all did it -so I met many "strangers" and almost always no photos and usually a phone call, that's it. So maybe my perspective is different.

 

I think OLD allows those who already have a candy store mentality to dating (which was true when we met people in bars, singles dances, clubs etc as well -again, lots of volume in the major city I did all of my dating in) to express that mentality. People who are serious minded might initially have the candy store rush but if they're truly serious about finding a long term relationship then that fades really fast and they're selective about who they meet. That was true from all I saw over the many years I was on OLD and watching my friends meet their spouses - one of them met 400 women in person he said before he met his wife but when I dated him he was very selective and not sleeping around (much- a bit of that but not because of candy store issues).

 

For me it was an awesome way to meet a potential spouse given my crazy work schedule and my ticking clock. I met men in several other ways. And I did the candy store thing at first ,and it would revive temporarily after a breakup from an LTR - but temporarily.

 

Decades ago I experienced vicariously the same people who settled for scraps. No difference because of OLD. The same people who treated other people scrappily. They met in bars and dance clubs and parties. And I sometimes had to "train" people to treat me with respect -not to call me for a last minute Saturday night hang out (no lectures, I'd just decline and if they wanted to see me they realized they had to call in advance), not to talk to me about sexual stuff they'd like to do before it was appropriate to do so, etc.

 

I wouldn't blame technology -it's how people use it. Does it make it easier if you're inclined to treat people as disposable? Of course! But only if you're first inclined that way.

 

Oh and I think OLD is a great way to find companions, dates, short term casual relationships too -and I am not at all implying that those people are treating others as disposable or have a candy store mentality, etc. Certainly they can be just as respectful and thoughtful within what they are looking for and not looking for. There's always a way to treat people with respect whether or not you see them as long term partners or even want one.

 

This is very interesting. I confess that ever since I had enough age to date there was already online dating. I met quite a few men online. Never on online dating websites but on platforms like IRC and then on dating apps.

 

I think and experienced that "jerks" or "non compatible" people will be "jerks" or "non compatible" weather you meet them online or in real life. Meeting someone online might be a bit like meeting someone at a bar or party, specially on dating apps. The person is falling for your photos at first (physical attraction like people do when meeting in person), and then comes the conversation and getting to know better in person.

 

Even though as you say, online dating doesn't create "bad matches" or "jerks" if they're already so, I think it also creates this feeling of abundance that though cofortable, can make it so that some people never settle for someone because they think that they always have someone to date at their disposal online (if they're somewhat physically attractive or look like so in photos) or that they can always find someone better. On the other hand, knowing that you can get dates easier than in person on online dating, makes some people be more themselves and more confident on dates because they don't feel that if they're not perfect or if the other person doesn't click with them that's the end of the world.

 

I don't think online dating or dating in general is easy though. I think in the end even though it's important to be the best we can be, at the end of the day luck also plays a big part in it. I know people who've dated hundreds of people through online dating and never found a LTR and I know people who are now married with the first person they met online. Or people who just found someone organically in real life and they clicked and didn't have to go through lots of people first.