The role of a support forum

[Unscrewed]

Dear ENAers,

 

I made a rule for myself that I would never start a thread, espicially about my personal issue. Before I signed up to this forum, I was on loveshack. I posted my frustration there, and I got the "be mature", "respect his decision", "go NC" advice. To me, that was really patronizing and obtuse. All I wanted at the time was to vent and to have someone acknowledge my suffering. I didn't want advice. I didn't want 'differing opinions'. The first advice I take is from myself. The second is from people who I know truly care about me. In other words, to put it elegantly, I won't take advice without 'love'. More often than not, when a stranger on the internet dispense their wisdom, they unintentionally put themselves on a higher I-know-better position. And without knowing the full story, their opinions often end up presumptous. They approach the OP as a problem to be solved. What I want and need, is not a senior tell me what I should do, but equals who are going through the same pain as I am. What I crave, is human connections.

 

Strangely enough, the phrase "what you don't want to hear" become a sort of validation for all sorts of obtuse behavior. Maybe your advice is indeed sensible and right, but is it truly helpful? Does it help calm the storm of emotions within us? I believe the best advice, the best method to handle a situation comes from the individuals themselves.

 

And yes, I am well-aware that many people are benefited from the advice given on this board. I'm just saying it can't be a blanket approach to every case. There is certainly more ways to be supportive than just giving out solutions. Many of us simply want some company to walk us through the rough patch as we slowly pick up the pieces ourselves.

[greta96]

Talking strictly about myself, I know I would much rather ask for the advice part from strangers (because they can be objective and not hold back out of worry of hurting my feelings) and the support part from the loved ones, because they care about me and can make me feel better more than a stranger could. This goes to show you how different we all are, some of us are more prone to giving advice, while others are more prone to sympathizing and being supportive. Both groups mean well, but the thing is when posting on a public forum you get both categories of people, from all walks of life and with all sorts of life experiences, so there is always the risk of hearing what you don't want to hear.

Many times posters have been through the exact same experience as you, and have learned what is the best way to deal with that particular issue. It's hard for those people to just pat you on the back and tell you "atta atta girl, everything will be ok, how could he, the jerk", when they have the solution at their fingertips, a solution that is guaranteed to help you more than simply listening to you would.

 

But if you want to avoid this from happening, the only solution I can come up with (see the irony?) is when you make a post, state clearly in your first sentence that you are not looking for advice, you just need emotional support. This way, those who are prone to giving advice will skip your thread, and you will get replies from those who are more inclined to listen and sympathize. Not always, of course, but it may help.

 

Just my opinion as usual.

[busykids]

Hi I think I resonate with what you mean. I posted an issue and was overwhelmed by the " dump him & get on with life vibe".

I was truly grateful for the answers as sometimes you are in complete denial.

I see lots of posts people in dilemmas about will they/won't they try at marriage again - the replies seem to be no - go no contact, have more respect for yourself, he/she doesn't care - blanket approach you mean?

Life is not always that simple - I defo got what I didn't want to hear but appreciate time taken to reply & wisdom of the group. It definitely challenged my thinking but of course it forms one part of my decision making!

Good luck break ups are very tough

[rich46]

This is a 'support' forum as you say, but it is not unreasonable for people to assume that you are here for advice unless stated otherwise, e.g. a cursory glance at the forum home page reveals phrases such as "Live Expert Advice," and posts with no replies that "Need Help," etc.

 

But if you want to avoid this from happening, the only solution I can come up with (see the irony?) is when you make a post, state clearly in your first sentence that you are not looking for advice, you just need emotional support. This way, those who are prone to giving advice will skip your thread, and you will get replies from those who are more inclined to listen and sympathize. Not always, of course, but it may help.

 

Just my opinion as usual.

 

Yep, and those who insist upon giving unwanted advice, even if you stated that you didn't want it in your first sentence, can be added to your 'ignore list' should you really be that affected by it.

 

You should also try to remember that a lot of posters are at the same stage as you presumably are, in the midst of heartbreak. They will gain comfort from giving advice to others, reinforcing what they themselves should be doing as they type it out, feeling better by knowing others are in a similar situation, taking their mind off their own predicament, temporarily. It feels good to be offering advice to others, and it can boost a person's sense of worth and increase their self-esteem as they do so. A bit harsh to call their posts "patronising" and "obtuse" when they are just trying to help.

 

How about going to the Journal section? That seems to be more along the lines of writing your story as it unfolds, and your recovery, with others chipping in with support and encouragement throughout.

 

Rich

[Hermes]

Just to remark that Enotalone is described as a "relationship Advice forum". Note the word advice. In fact to be accurate Enotalone is described as "relationship advice and articles".

 

I agree with Greta that any poster not wishing to hear what s/he doesn't want to hear should indeed state in the heading of his/her thread or post that "I am not looking for advice."

[Knot2loud]

There are probably very few professional counselors here that have been trained in relationships. I personally believe that most members here really do care to a certain degree. I can't speak for the others. One thing is certain... They try - I try. People can only interpret the issues as they read them. They cannot feel the emotions that the OP is presenting. Again, they try.

 

Whatever your situation or dilemma was... I hope things worked out for the best. Life is to short to be wrapped up in strife, bad relationships, abuse, being used, hatred, anger, bigotry and a myriad of other things thing that life throws at you.

 

Personally... I wish everyone could just simply get along.

 

Again... I wish you the best.

[Hermes]

Hear, hear. Knot.

 

Just to remark that here on this forum, up at the top of the page there is a tab which says: "Live Expert Advice" that is, there are counsellors, psychologists etc. there.

 

 

 

I just wonder to any, or many, posters avail of that particular facility?

[Ms Darcy]

What I crave, is human connections.

 

I think ENA isn't quite the best way to get a human connection.

 

My husband reminds me that sometimes I need to make sure to let go of certain expectations. One expectation you have is to vent and acknowledgement. ENA is an advice forum primarily. By nature, when anyone is presenting an issue an issue that is bothering them, they will generally get advice.

 

One thing I would recommend is stating at the start of the thread what your intention is.

 

I think you also bring up an interesting point. And that leads to a question. You mention that the person giving advice doesn't know the full story more often than not. That's certainly true. In a break up scenario, hearing from one person is only half of the story. I think, consequently, that actually makes it harder acknowledge the suffering if there is some possibility that a story is being presented as fully and fairly as possible.

 

I do agree that sometimes people can give some bad or unhelpful advice. I generally think the collective is better than single. For situations where I don't have perspective, advice is incredibly helpful for the sake of helping me get the clutter out of my mind and make a good decision. In the end it is my decision. And I think advice is best when it gives me different options for me to consider.

 

But I think the piece about looking for a connection is most meaningful to me. It's ironic to look for human connection online. It's fascinating. I look for human connection in person. So trying to get it here would probably equal constant disappointment if that was my expectation. (Note: I actually do think connections are made here. But that tends to be through journals where there is long-term sharing between posters and people oft become friends in real life.)

[catfeeder]

Given that a board with the word 'advice' in the topic tends to invite advice, I wouldn't anticipate much success in posting to a crossword site that people should not to post their answers but just be friendly about the puzzle.

 

Trying to control a public forum on the Internet is not against the law, but the good news is, you can ignore anything that you don't find helpful.

[Matt3939]

The good thing about this forum. Is you can vent. Plus most of the people on here have gone thru something similar. You find out fast that you are not alone. They will tell you what worked for them or what they wished they did. I read alot of the posts but there's alot that I just can't relate so I only read them. Plus it's real people sometimes that's better then a dr situation for some circumstances.

[melancholy123]

Some people can't see the forest for the trees and this being an advice forum that's what they will most often get - advice. Being on the outside looking in lets strangers be more objective than you or your friends and relatives can be, which I think is a good thing. We can be supportive and give advice at the same time because we have been thru all sorts of things ourselves and hopefully have learned from them. There's always the option of just skipping responses that dont apply to your situation.

[Wiseman2]

Agree. It's fine to state "just venting" or "I need a good rant",etc. which many posters do all the time who just want to get stuff off their chests.

 

I would however disagree that coddling is the only form of caring and support. In fact many posters do come for opinions and advice often stating "help!" in their post or thread title, looking for other people's experience or an outside perspective. And some would feel condescended to if no one bothered to analyse or put objective thought into responses.

 

So it's all a matter of perspective, not 'this' advice is better than 'that' There are plenty of areas for venting an sharing and plenty of ways to state that intention. So everyone is welcome and no one feels alone.

Just to remark that Enotalone is described as a "relationship Advice forum". Note the word advice. In fact to be accurate Enotalone is described as "relationship advice and articles".

 

I agree with Greta that any poster not wishing to hear what s/he doesn't want to hear should indeed state in the heading of his/her thread or post that "I am not looking for advice."

[Hermes]

Exactly Wiseman

 

"I would however disagree that coddling is the only form of caring and support. In fact many posters do come for opinions and advice often stating "help!" in their post or thread title"

 

I know I would want to hear it, straight up and constructive.

[j.man]

I can't quite claim mhowe status, but I know I've got a more direct approach to advice than some others on here do. It's not an effort to be blunt for the sake of being blunt or at all an attempt at offense. It's advice, and I offer it whether I hope they'll accept it at that moment or think back on it later when their mind is in more of a state to objectively assess.

 

Bear in mind this is an advice forum, so we are all egotists to some degree, waiting to throw whatever gold threaded insight we feel we've got. If you post here, you'll get advice. There are "safer" zones within the forums such as the diary / journal section, but by and large, the forum stays true to its advice dynamic.

 

Really, no one here is your partner, parent, or friend. While it's normal for people to have a general empathy for other people, it's pretty rare to care enough about individuals you don't know to come onto a forum and offer blanket emotional support for them. I suppose you do get the occasional "mhmmmm, gurlllll, your ex was a total ***hole. If I was you, I'd key his car" type, but I'm not sure how conducive they are to support or advice.

[Hermes]

Indeed, J.Man. You are right.

 

And besides there are, I am sure, forums which purport to help their members "get back with your ex". And how to play games to do that. Holding someone's hand and leading them back (virtually) to the author of their pain and suffering would, in my view, be nothing short of malicious.

[Blue Ridge]

The biggest challenge I find here when giving advice is "guessing" the other side of things. We are only hearing one perspective. Sometimes it is obvious that perspective is flawed, such as "My husband cheats on me, and I just want him to stop," and other times it is 40 posts in before a bombshell is dropped that changes everything. As for the constant "end things, go no contact," I try to save that for when it seems genuinely needed -someone has been broken up with and is pining, there is abuse, infidelity, etc. None of us know the dynamics of a poster's relationships, the history, or anything, really, other than what we are told. What I do think many of us here have experienced though, is having been in unhappy relationships for years of our lives -or being out of one and staying in touch for some twisted reason of comfort that actually causes more pain. Especially in the latter case, I can't type "NO CONTACT" fast enough.

[j.man]

other times it is 40 posts in before a bombshell is dropped that changes everything

This is #2 on my list of "Top 5 Things that will probably drive j.man to alcoholism."

[Hermes]

It would also help, vastly, IMO if the poster would just state where s/he is from . By that I do NOT mean your street number and city, simply the name of the Continent will even do.

In some cultures things are very different to the way we might see them, and our outspoken ways might seem a little shocking sometimes. So, in those case, the poster beats about the bush for the 40+ posts ....

 

Just a thought.

[Ms Darcy]

The biggest challenge I find here when giving advice is "guessing" the other side of things. We are only hearing one perspective. Sometimes it is obvious that perspective is flawed, such as "My husband cheats on me, and I just want him to stop," and other times it is 40 posts in before a bombshell is dropped that changes everything. As for the constant "end things, go no contact," I try to save that for when it seems genuinely needed -someone has been broken up with and is pining, there is abuse, infidelity, etc. None of us know the dynamics of a poster's relationships, the history, or anything, really, other than what we are told. What I do think many of us here have experienced though, is having been in unhappy relationships for years of our lives -or being out of one and staying in touch for some twisted reason of comfort that actually causes more pain. Especially in the latter case, I can't type "NO CONTACT" fast enough.

 

When I was a young and naive poster, I actually took the time to write out a possible scenario for what the other person in the scenario might be thinking to give the OP another perspective. Scenarios would be like mini-novels - very long. It was really cool the first time because it gave the person a new way of viewing things and sparked more discussions. That got old real quick though for one key reason.

 

A lot of people are not really adept at thinking from multiple perspectives when they are in pain or panic mode. I think that's part of the reason why you would have a cheater freak out because both his mistress and his wife are planning to leave him (for example). That person is very focused on the trees (as someone said before) and not the forest. So instead it becomes a process of trying to pull that person out of the weeds through some pointed questions. THAT'S when you get the "game changing revelation" (he's cheating, she's married, I just got fired, their brother just died) 10, 20, 40 posts in.

 

It's incredible but it happens all the time.

 

Edited to add: By the way, I think it's a good process. Letting things build through questions and responses.

[journeynow]

I agree that people have to start out where they are, which is sometimes an emotional turmoil. It doesn't make sense for us to expect someone to accept strangers advice hook-line-and-sinker right away and make instant change. In the long run that advice may be followed, but people are human and don't usually change their way of thinking or their perspective right away. If it were so easy, there wouldn't be an eNA.

 

When I first came to eNA I thought it was about support more than advice. Over time it seems to have become more about advice, or maybe I just am more receptive to it, and more likely to offer it.

 

People offer feedback based on (probably) what they would need to hear themselves. Basically, people give advice as if they are in the original poster's shoes. There are definitely patterns in the types of posts and situations, so while people are unique, human nature has some running themes. ENA is an interesting place for observing this.

[Ms Darcy]

Really, no one here is your partner, parent, or friend. While it's normal for people to have a general empathy for other people, it's pretty rare to care enough about individuals you don't know to come onto a forum and offer blanket emotional support for them. I suppose you do get the occasional "mhmmmm, gurlllll, your ex was a total ***hole. If I was you, I'd key his car" type, but I'm not sure how conducive they are to support or advice.

 

So I am going to challenge this a little bit. I am probably worst than most in terms of blunt advice. It's actually when I am with a thread for a while that you'll see me start to express more empathy or realize when I've hurt someone's feelings and try to make amends a bit.

 

I'm not challenging you because you strike a great balance. But not all of us do as advisers and I certainly can do better. It doesn't HURT me to remember to say, "You know, I'm sorry. It really sucks that your bf of a few months got you pregnant and ran away" as opposed to diving into a diatribe about being careful with birth control in the future.

 

I wouldn't get into coddling, but I do think I have ventured into the other extreme. So we have to be mindful of that too.

[j.man]

So I am going to challenge this a little bit. I am probably worst than most in terms of blunt advice. It's actually when I am with a thread for a while that you'll see me start to express more empathy or realize when I've hurt someone's feelings and try to make amends a bit.

 

I'm not challenging you because you strike a great balance. But not all of us do as advisers and I certainly can do better. It doesn't HURT me to remember to say, "You know, I'm sorry. It really sucks that your bf of a few months got you pregnant and ran away" as opposed to diving into a diatribe about being careful with birth control in the future.

 

I wouldn't get into coddling, but I do think I have ventured into the other extreme. So we have to be mindful of that too.

I wouldn't necessarily say I'm for indiscriminate ex post facto slamming either. Take the numerous threads we'll get about [generally] a woman getting blackmailed with nudes she'd texted her ex with. While I may or may not decide to throw in a "don't send or store incriminating things on your phone," it's not my desire to really drive the point or post simply to say that as many others would. There are a few situations where I know that they obviously know the consequences much more than I do, given that they're experiencing them right then.

 

But there are other cases where it is along the lines of, "Yeah, you did a ****ty thing... and now you feel ****ty. That's kinda how it tends to work." I hesitate to get too constructive with certain scenarios so as to not inadvertently provide scapegoats for behavior.

[Ms Darcy]

Totally agree.

[gypsybird87]

I've started a number of threads here and I personally feel I've received a good balance of support and advice. I do think certain pieces of advice get used a lot, primarily "no contact forever", and "ex's can't be friends." But I think they get used so often because in most cases, they are true. This site contains a vast amount of life experience, which can be translated to knowledge. And there is nothing wrong with sharing that knowledge. I for one am very grateful to everyone who posts here, and especially those who have responded to my personal threads.

 

I think people get frustrated when they forget what "advice" really means. It's not an order that must be followed. It's simply that person stating, "If I was/when I was in your situation, this is what I would do." When many people post the same advice, all that means is that that was the proper course of action for many people who were in the same situation. It does NOT mean it's the only answer, or the right answer for everyone. The flip side of that is that just because it's not what the poster wants to hear, doesn't mean it's wrong or not exactly what they should be doing.

 

We all have to make our own choices, and live with our own decisions. I am thankful for those who've shared their experiences with me, and given me different perspectives and ideas to consider, while making my own decisions about how to proceed. Sometimes I take the advice that's offered, sometimes I don't. I broke NC when everyone told me not to, and it was absolutely the correct choice, for me. BUT... even though in that case I didn't follow the advice offered, everything that had been said to me still helped me think and prepare and make my decision. I consider every piece of advice I've received here valuable. Some resonated as something I should do. Some helped me realize what I did *not* want to do. But they all served the purpose of helping me focus on my OWN decision, which is what advice is supposed to do.

[Seraphim]

Think about it this way every minute that someone spends giving here to someone else is time not given to themselves, their children ,their work, their friends..

 

So instead of being "patronizing " and "obtuse "we should go spend that time ourselves and family and friends and work.

 

But I do understand that everybody wants a little sympathy as well.