Engagment is off???

[sargon]

I wasn't planning on reposting to this thread, but I just had to when I saw this.

 

 

 

Here's a woman who has been living with a guy for.. 6 months. He's told her either they get engaged or he leaves her.

 

Interesting to see it from the other side.

[Heannaa]

He knows of my ambivalence and doesn't mind. No problem here.

 

I'm saying, if that's what you are looking for in a guy, you are going to be disappointed. I hope we get more guys here who want marriage who want weigh on this.

 

I did ask my boyfriend a few min ago a hypothetical about this thread, and he said that have scared him if a woman told him that. I'd wager most marriage minded men feel the same. 6 months is not enough to know if you want to marry someone, for most people.

 

Well he didn't seem that scared while he was making plans for the future. But everyone is different. I wouldn't have dreamed about saying that or thinking this way when I was your age. And I don't know how old your bf is but if he is your age, my friend has 10 years on him. 10 years. that's a long time. and if he has dated girls in the past that were ambivalent about marriage, and he wanted marriage, I would have been a refreshing change. anyway it doesn't matter the point is moot. I just wanted someplace to vent, whats going to happen will happen regardless of this conversation.

[Heannaa]

I wasn't planning on reposting to this thread, but I just had to when I saw this.

 

 

 

Here's a woman who has been living with a guy for.. 6 months. He's told her either they get engaged or he leaves her.

 

Interesting to see it from the other side.

 

thanks for that

[Heannaa]

I wasn't planning on reposting to this thread, but I just had to when I saw this.

 

 

 

Here's a woman who has been living with a guy for.. 6 months. He's told her either they get engaged or he leaves her.

 

Interesting to see it from the other side.

 

my argument becomes more valid. now there are feelings involved and people are going to get hurt because of two differing perspectives. if he had told her from the start that he wants to get married and that he would give the relationship 6 months, she would know that her time is up and to make a decision. I think when you meet the person you are supposed to be with, you just know... it will hit you like a lightning bolt and there is no way you would ever think about not being with them. a classic case of two people wanting different things after too many moves have been made, ie already living together

[sargon]

my argument becomes more valid. now there are feelings involved and people are going to get hurt because of two differing perspectives. if he had told her from the start that he wants to get married and that he would give the relationship 6 months, she would know that her time is up and to make a decision.

 

[Heannaa]

 

whats wrong with that?

 

people say date to get to know someone. my mom had a friend who was married for some 10 years or so and they dated forever before that. suddenly he wanted a divorce because he was attracted to men.

 

doesnt matter how fast or slow things still might not work out no matter how much you "think you know someone"

 

and for the other post... me and the guy giving the ultimatum would get along great if our personalities and everything else matched up, because we both want the same things. he gets it and doesnt want to spend precious time, energy, emotion, money, and whatever else on someone that doesnt want to fully commit to him. Im glad you showed that to me, I am apparently not alone in my thinking.

[intolerable]

Hey, OP, question: you told him before if that after 6 months he doesn't want to get married, you'll start dating other prospects. Are you dating others right now?

[Heannaa]

Hey, OP, question: you told him before if that after 6 months he doesn't want to get married, you'll start dating other prospects. Are you dating others right now?

 

I gave him a month of my support to prove to him that I wouldnt bail when times got tough. As time went on, I could see that my support and love were not helping him make up his mind or helping him make smart financial decisions. In a few words, our "relationship" or friendship rather, was bogging us both down. Me in heartbreak, him in more confusion. So, I have decided and left him a message saying that I need to take a month to get my head together and for him as well, and if in a month we wanted to meet up and talk I would be ok with that. I am preparing myself emotinally to move past this, either to him, if he decides I am the only one for him... or other prospects. Im not a monster I dont just skip from guy to guy, I do love him, but he has to love me too for it to work.

 

we are at about 7 or 8 months when this next month is up.. so it wasnt directly on the nose. more of a guideline

[intolerable]

I gave him a month of my support to prove to him that I wouldnt bail when times got tough. As time went on, I could see that my support and love were not helping him make up his mind or helping him make smart financial decisions. In a few words, our "relationship" or friendship rather, was bogging us both down. Me in heartbreak, him in more confusion. So, I have decided and left him a message saying that I need to take a month to get my head together and for him as well, and if in a month we wanted to meet up and talk I would be ok with that. I am preparing myself emotinally to move past this, either to him, if he decides I am the only one for him... or other prospects. Im not a monster I dont just skip from guy to guy, I do love him, but he has to love me too for it to work.

 

I'm glad that you're making plans to take better care of yourself. Humor me for a second though. In your plan, you gave yourself a month to get your (and his) head together. How did you feel about that? Giving yourself a deadline, I mean.

 

Another thing; I read in your previous replies that you're confused why he would do such grand things for you and then suddenly decide he doesn't want marriage. That he didn't have to accept the pressure. He accepted it because he liked you enough, maybe even had deeper feelings for you. But the thing is, people change their minds. Maybe after doing all those grand things he got burnt out. Happens all the time. Excuse the analogy, but just look at uni. People would take Major A because they want to, do their absolute best to make sure they pass, then, in the end, decide that they can't do it anymore. They drop out or shift to another major.

[Heannaa]

I'm glad that you're making plans to take better care of yourself. Humor me for a second though. In your plan, you gave yourself a month to get your (and his) head together. How did you feel about that? Giving yourself a deadline, I mean.

 

Another thing; I read in your previous replies that you're confused why he would do such grand things for you and then suddenly decide he doesn't want marriage. That he didn't have to accept the pressure. He accepted it because he liked you enough, maybe even had deeper feelings for you. But the thing is, people change their minds. Maybe after doing all those grand things he got burnt out. Happens all the time. Excuse the analogy, but just look at uni. People would take Major A because they want to, do their absolute best to make sure they pass, then, in the end, decide that they can't do it anymore. They drop out or shift to another major.

 

Well because my ultimate goal is marriage and if I get knocked down, and I stay down, I will never achieve my last major goal in life. and I would like to have one more child and as much as people like to make fun of a females "clock ticking" it is a very real thing.

 

many years ago I was with a man who kept telling me that marriage was around the corner... "just a little while longer... i have to do this and that" well I spent 3 years with him waiting for marriage. he ended up cheating on me and breaking up with me. it was a very horrible experience and I continually "victimized" myself over and over. "Why me??... what did I do?... why wasnt I good enough?" I did that to myself for a WHOLE YEAR.

 

After that I promised myself that I wouldnt leave my hope and dreams in the hands of a man that is not sure about me. and I wont spend months and months crying over him and wondering why I wasnt good enough.

 

I had to take action. take my own fate into my hands. it may be a tough deadline but its fair. I have to look at the bigger picture and realize that there is a man out there waiting to meet me and is wanting to marry a woman like me. who am I to keep him waiting

 

Yes, perhaps he got burnt out. I also contributed to our fun. I took us out to dinner and got us a hotel one weekend so we could get away and have some fun and bought us drinks at the local casino. I am a very giving person too. I couldnt pay him back in money but I did my best to tell him how proud of him I was and how much I admired his hard work and dedication. I guess sometimes it just isnt meant to be.

 

Thank you for your reply

[lilygirl]

Wow! Fiery little thread here. I feel like I have missed something. Whether the op applied pressure or not, the bf knew what he was getting into. It is not like the op dragged him along. She made her stance clear from the beginning and he signed up and I agree that it might be a bit intense, I am more of a "let things happen organically" kind of gal, but off they went.

 

There are never any guarantees in affairs of the heart. It is impossible to know whether it would have worked out had they dated longer or not, with or without the marriage discussion. Thing is, the op was asking for help with what to do now. I think the bf is under stress because of the business/money thing and perhaps with the wedding on the horizon, he can't deal.

 

There is always a lesson to be learned in these situations and I would guess that if things don't work out with the op and her boyfriend, she will carry the lesson to the next situation, but I think dwelling on how much pressure she applied or not, is getting a bit redundant. Reflection is always part of the process but I think insisting that this was doomed from the start is impossible to know. Many couples hit the ground running, quick to commit, quick to marry, etc and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

[Heannaa]

Wow! Fiery little thread here. I feel like I have missed something. Whether the op applied pressure or not, the bf knew what he was getting into. It is not like the op dragged him along. She made her stance clear from the beginning and he signed up and I agree that it might be a bit intense, I am more of a "let things happen organically" kind of gal, but off they went.

 

There are never any guarantees in affairs of the heart. It is impossible to know whether it would have worked out had they dated longer or not, with or without the marriage discussion. Thing is, the op was asking for help with what to do now. I think the bf is under stress because of the business/money thing and perhaps with the wedding on the horizon, he can't deal.

 

There is always a lesson to be learned in these situations and I would guess that if things don't work out with the op and her boyfriend, she will carry the lesson to the next situation, but I think dwelling on how much pressure she applied or not, is getting a bit redundant. Reflection is always part of the process but I think insisting that this was doomed from the start is impossible to know. Many couples hit the ground running, quick to commit, quick to marry, etc and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

 

Thank you, Lily... You truly are a gem

[Silverbirch]

I can understand the OP. I don't want marriage anymore myself - and part of the reason for that was that I stayed on long-term relationships with people who turned out not to want the same as Zi did. I regret the times I walked on eggshells about so many things. Personally, I've realised that not only am I better off on my own, I've been able to make a much better life for myself. If another person wanted marriage, I would need to know about that early because I wouldn't want to mess them about or get in their way for happiness.

[lilygirl]

Thank you, Lily... You truly are a gem

 

You are welcome and thank you.

[Heannaa]

I can understand the OP. I don't want marriage anymore myself - and part of the reason for that was that I stayed on long-term relationships with people who turned out not to want the same as Zi did. I regret the times I walked on eggshells about so many things. Personally, I've realised that not only am I better off on my own, I've been able to make a much better life for myself. If another person wanted marriage, I would need to know about that early because I wouldn't want to mess them about or get in their way for happiness.

 

Thank you for your input, Silver

[intolerable]

After that I promised myself that I wouldnt leave my hope and dreams in the hands of a man that is not sure about me. and I wont spend months and months crying over him and wondering why I wasnt good enough.

 

And you can do it again. there are a lot of lessons learned in successful and failed relationships. Life is one big trial and error. The important thing is getting up again.

[Heannaa]

thank you so much. I will keep the post updated over the next month. because I have looked up stories and most of them lack a follow through lol

[itsallgrand]

It is weird, but some people are just impulsive. He sounds very well off, so probably to him that money was no big deal. He's just one of those people who make grand gestures to sweep you off your feet, who drag you into a whirlwind romance, because they enjoy the excitement and novelty, only to get bored just as easily and leave as quickly as they came.

I don't think it's just something you two are going through, I'm afraid this is the end of the road, because he's had his fun and is over it.

 

Next time, it would be a good idea not to let anyone pay your debts or pay for stuff for you, because it's just not healthy and eventually it builds resentment (even though he is the one who offered). Live and learn...

 

I think along the same lines greta does as far as how I understand this.

 

Very common signs of people who actually are not good bets for reliably committing come in different shapes and sizes. There tend to be a lot of common 'types' though.

One very common type is the very intense right from the starting gate like you tell the story of your courtship here.

He made grand gestures that were not in line with how long you had known this person, and made a lot of promises that you had no way of yet knowing if he would follow through on. You couldn't know it because you didn't see him in enough day to day situations, get to know him over a long enough period of time, to see how he reacts to life and what his patterns and ways of dealing in relationships are.

 

Red flags along the way:

+ the very beginning. Showing up to your work and making a production out of courting you. That kind of heavy handedness so early is something to watch out for.

+how quick he was to propose

+asking you to pick out a house and he bought it, casually, as though it were like picking up dinner on the way home

+paying off all your debts

+picking up a new business right at the same time as doing all this with you

+how quickly he spoke about adopting your child

+suggesting you quit your job to basically work for him in his business

 

To be frank, if a man like this came into my life in this fashion, I would tag him as a potential con artist. The amount of control he was basically having you turn over to him in such a short amount of time is a little frightening, and you are actually kind of lucky it didn't turn out that he was a control freak abuser who did marry you and then show you a nasty and neglectful side.

 

The amount of control you were willing to turn over here -

you would have been basically been living in his house (a home he paid for and I assume then his name would be on that property right?)

you would have been dependent on him for your employment, and given up your job

you would have given over rights regarding your child, had the adoption process gotten underway

you would have given over some of your financial responsibility and created more dependence on him as well by allowing him to pay your loan (by the way, there are ways to pay him back, and if it were me, I totally would, because life has a way of evening things out, and now you are endebted to him. Maybe there is no paperwork and it was a gift, so you would never be chased down for it, but at any point in the future, if this man comes back into your life or you allow him to stay in it, you are no longer on equal footing with him as an equal partner in that way, you established a dynamic where he has a position of power over you financially).

 

He provided solutions to needs to you have and it all seemed too good to be true, right? Well you know that goes. Though of course when it is you who it is staring you in the face, the temptation of getting all you ever wanted right now, of course a lot of people are willing to give over an arm and a leg to have that. But you gotta be careful...especially since you have a child....and work on what you yourself said is a tendency to gullibility.

 

The point of my long post is I think this goes beyond "I tried, it didn't work out". I think you made some major missteps here, and if you really want to get what it is you have your heart set on - a secure life for you and your child, a good relationship and marriage and a chance to have another child, please take the lesson now and don't waste time rationalizing or going into denial about your part in it.

[Heannaa]

There were many conversations in between but of course it's too hard to put down every single detail. We were picking out our home to raise our family in, he wanted me to love it, is what I was saying. And he didn't just come up with the idea of adopting my son it was something we talked about and he expressed interest in doing so. And he never suggested I quit my job, I offered to help run the family business. He would never be one to hold that over my head, he is just a very giving man with a huge heart. I'm almost sorry that I put this on here with every one picking him apart.

[Heannaa]

I'm not in denial. I realize that the likely hood that it's over is very high. Sure things could've gone the way someone else wanted but we were perfectly happy. I had been in controlling relationships before and he wasn't like that, just a strong man, strong leader.

 

Just because some people think that sending flowers to your gf work is a red flag, doesn't make it so.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

 

I thought it was romantic and put a smile on my face, as I have a very high stress job.

 

Just because it didn't work out doesn't make either one of us bad people.

[faraday]

Its rather unusual to talk about marriage and put a deadline/timeframe on when you'll decide to do it, with a person you've known only a few months.

 

Even if your goal is marriage, it's completely senseless to bring it up to a guy after a few months and say "this is my plan, and you'll either follow it or I'm moving on".

 

You're only shooting yourself in the foot with that sort of approach. You'll scare away all the good ones.

 

What's the big deal about getting married anyway? At least half of marriages fail, more and more people live together without getting marriage, the whole concept of marriage is an outdated, artificial, largely failed concept. You already have a child, there's over population in the world as it is. Why can't you just be happy with meeting a guy and seeing how things go without having this preconceived notion that you must marry again and bring more children into the world?

 

Well, this is your opinion

 

I get where the OP is coming from...except I tell all my dates around the 2-4 date mark that I want to get married at some point and start a family. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying, "I want to marry YOU." I'm stating my goal...if a man has an incompatible goal, or he has your viewpoint of marriage, I'd rather know right away rather than waste a year of my life with him before finding out he never wants to marry anyone ever.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hollyj]

I think along the same lines greta does as far as how I understand this.

 

Very common signs of people who actually are not good bets for reliably committing come in different shapes and sizes. There tend to be a lot of common 'types' though.

One very common type is the very intense right from the starting gate like you tell the story of your courtship here.

He made grand gestures that were not in line with how long you had known this person, and made a lot of promises that you had no way of yet knowing if he would follow through on. You couldn't know it because you didn't see him in enough day to day situations, get to know him over a long enough period of time, to see how he reacts to life and what his patterns and ways of dealing in relationships are.

 

Red flags along the way:

+ the very beginning. Showing up to your work and making a production out of courting you. That kind of heavy handedness so early is something to watch out for.

+how quick he was to propose

+asking you to pick out a house and he bought it, casually, as though it were like picking up dinner on the way home

+paying off all your debts

+picking up a new business right at the same time as doing all this with you

+how quickly he spoke about adopting your child

+suggesting you quit your job to basically work for him in his business

 

To be frank, if a man like this came into my life in this fashion, I would tag him as a potential con artist. The amount of control he was basically having you turn over to him in such a short amount of time is a little frightening, and you are actually kind of lucky it didn't turn out that he was a control freak abuser who did marry you and then show you a nasty and neglectful side.

 

The amount of control you were willing to turn over here -

you would have been basically been living in his house (a home he paid for and I assume then his name would be on that property right?)

you would have been dependent on him for your employment, and given up your job

you would have given over rights regarding your child, had the adoption process gotten underway

you would have given over some of your financial responsibility and created more dependence on him as well by allowing him to pay your loan (by the way, there are ways to pay him back, and if it were me, I totally would, because life has a way of evening things out, and now you are endebted to him. Maybe there is no paperwork and it was a gift, so you would never be chased down for it, but at any point in the future, if this man comes back into your life or you allow him to stay in it, you are no longer on equal footing with him as an equal partner in that way, you established a dynamic where he has a position of power over you financially).

 

He provided solutions to needs to you have and it all seemed too good to be true, right? Well you know that goes. Though of course when it is you who it is staring you in the face, the temptation of getting all you ever wanted right now, of course a lot of people are willing to give over an arm and a leg to have that. But you gotta be careful...especially since you have a child....and work on what you yourself said is a tendency to gullibility.

 

The point of my long post is I think this goes beyond "I tried, it didn't work out". I think you made some major missteps here, and if you really want to get what it is you have your heart set on - a secure life for you and your child, a good relationship and marriage and a chance to have another child, please take the lesson now and don't waste time rationalizing or going into denial about your part in it.

 

Nailed it!!!

[boltnrun]

My ex husband told me "marry me or I'll break up with you. If you won't agree to marry me I'll find someone who will. No, I don't want to live together. I want to be married".

 

I was 19 and I was his first ever girlfriend. We'd only been dating about a year.

 

So, I agreed to marry him. Even though I was only 20 when he bought the engagement ring, and I felt way too young to be getting married, and I was petrified...I went along with planning a medium sized wedding, picking out an apartment, shopping for a dress and shoes, putting together the guest list, selecting a honeymoon destination... I even told him repeatedly how happy I was to be marrying him. Deep down inside, I was thinking "why do we have to do this NOW? What's the big hurry? I'm just a 21 year old kid, I don't know how to be married!!" But HE wanted marriage and I didn't want to lose him.

 

So, we got married. We had children.

 

15 years later, we're divorced.

 

Turns out, we are completely incompatible.

 

If we'd waited a minute we probably would have realized it. But he was in a big old hurry, and I didn't want to lose him, so we just went ahead and got married. And made each other miserable for 15 years.

 

So, yes, it's possible he went ahead with all the big plans so he wouldn't lose you.

 

No one forced him, you're right about that. But no one forced me either. I was given a choice and I chose poorly.

 

I cherish my beautiful children, but the marriage should never have happened under those circumstances.

[Heannaa]

My ex husband told me "marry me or I'll break up with you. If you won't agree to marry me I'll find someone who will. No, I don't want to live together. I want to be married".

 

I was 19 and I was his first ever girlfriend. We'd only been dating about a year.

 

So, I agreed to marry him. Even though I was only 20 when he bought the engagement ring, and I felt way too young to be getting married, and I was petrified...I went along with planning a medium sized wedding, picking out an apartment, shopping for a dress and shoes, putting together the guest list, selecting a honeymoon destination... I even told him repeatedly how happy I was to be marrying him. Deep down inside, I was thinking "why do we have to do this NOW? What's the big hurry? I'm just a 21 year old kid, I don't know how to be married!!" But HE wanted marriage and I didn't want to lose him.

 

So, we got married. We had children.

 

15 years later, we're divorced.

 

Turns out, we are completely incompatible.

 

If we'd waited a minute we probably would have realized it. But he was in a big old hurry, and I didn't want to lose him, so we just went ahead and got married. And made each other miserable for 15 years.

 

So, yes, it's possible he went ahead with all the big plans so he wouldn't lose you.

 

No one forced him, you're right about that. But no one forced me either. I was given a choice and I chose poorly.

 

I cherish my beautiful children, but the marriage should never have happened under those circumstances.

 

That makes sense. He, however, is not my first boyfriend, nor I is his first girlfriend. Plus I am 12 years older than you were at that particular time, have my life together, experiences under my belt, and financially stable. Same with my friend. So it's not quite the same thing. But I appreciate your input.

 

To further illustrate my point, that is the exact definition of an ultimatum, and I don't think those are fair. Which is why I make my goals known right away, so he has time to figure if his goals match with mine.

 

No surprises or pressure. Just careful thought.

[Heannaa]

Well, this is your opinion

 

I get where the OP is coming from...except I tell all my dates around the 2-4 date mark that I want to get married at some point and start a family. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying, "I want to marry YOU." I'm stating my goal...if a man has an incompatible goal, or he has your viewpoint of marriage, I'd rather know right away rather than waste a year of my life with him before finding out he never wants to marry anyone ever.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you for your input.

 

I thought my approach was sensible, but all this feedback was making me question that lol.

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in my thinking,