Engagment is off???

[Heannaa]

I dont think we will ever see eye to eye on the way I went about this. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and am a very loving and trusting, put you before myself type of person. And if the guy I am dating sees "my ultimatum" as a threat vs. an amazing oppertunity to marry a wonderful woman who knows what she wants and is not afraid to voice it and or pass him over to get it.... Let him walk

[Fudgie]

Him continuing to talk to you and be cordial does not change anything, really. It's very common for people to have mixed feelings about people, like "I like them, I like their company, but I don't want to get married and so we can't really be together."

 

Him talking to you doesn't mean that he will change his mind or that he actually wants to get married. He doesn't.

 

Please understand that when you start a relationship by voicing your deadlines/ultimatums (of any sort, I'm not just talking about marriage), you open yourself to hurt down the road if the guy decides "well I guess I'll give this a try" and then backs out when he decides he didn't REALLY want what you wanted, or he doesn't feel compatible with you.

[Heannaa]

NOPE. He flat out told you he doesn't want marriage. Even if in the beginning he thought he might want it, when it started to become reality for him, he realized it was not what he wanted.

 

He meant what he said. You aren't compatible. You may love him, but you want different things. Marriage is a non-negotiable for most people. You either want it or you don't.

You have to be on the same page about this. You aren't. It would not work out, even if you got back together.

 

He wants to be friends, you don't. This can't end well any way you slice it. Stop torturing yourself for no good reason, bite the bullet and say goodbye.

 

You will both just frustrate yourself and each other by hoping the other person will give you what they aren't willing to give.

 

He has said lots of things. Even when I was giving th ring back he said he was going to have it sized so that it would fit me and even told me that he wants me to have it, I dont know why. Everything has been very confusing and stressful on both of our ends

[Fudgie]

I dont think we will ever see eye to eye on the way I went about this. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and am a very loving and trusting, put you before myself type of person. And if the guy I am dating sees "my ultimatum" as a threat vs. an amazing oppertunity to marry a wonderful woman who knows what she wants and is not afraid to voice it and or pass him over to get it.... Let him walk

 

Fair enough, just be aware that you're going to scare off a lot of nice, commitment-minded guys. No one wants to feel like they are being dragged to the altar. At only 2-3 months in, how will they know if they want to marry you?? That's such a short time to know someone. I think you are asking a lot of a potential partner to know within

 

You can find commitment-minded people without being ham-handed about it.

 

What's going to happen is you're going to keep having experiences like this one where the guy where it's a crazy whirlwind romance that dies quickly and leaves you confused either because it fizzled out on its own or it just moved too quickly for its own good....or you're going to find desperate men who are willing to marry someone, anyone, asap.

[Heannaa]

Him continuing to talk to you and be cordial does not change anything, really. It's very common for people to have mixed feelings about people, like "I like them, I like their company, but I don't want to get married and so we can't really be together."

 

Him talking to you doesn't mean that he will change his mind or that he actually wants to get married. He doesn't.

 

Please understand that when you start a relationship by voicing your deadlines/ultimatums (of any sort, I'm not just talking about marriage), you open yourself to hurt down the road if the guy decides "well I guess I'll give this a try" and then backs out when he decides he didn't REALLY want what you wanted, or he doesn't feel compatible with you.

 

He knows that I want to get married and he doesnt. Why be cordial? I have backed off to the point where I am not initiating any contact and he continues to speak to me. It doesnt make sense. Its not for sex and we havent known each toher that long. I think he may be struggling with many things at this point.

[Heannaa]

Fair enough, just be aware that you're going to scare off a lot of nice, commitment-minded guys. No one wants to feel like they are being dragged to the altar. At only 2-3 months in, how will they know if they want to marry you?? That's such a short time to know someone. I think you are asking a lot of a potential partner to know within

 

You can find commitment-minded people without being ham-handed about it.

 

What's going to happen is you're going to keep having experiences like this one where the guy where it's a crazy whirlwind romance that dies quickly and leaves you confused either because it fizzled out on its own or it just moved too quickly for its own good....or you're going to find desperate men who are willing to marry someone, anyone, asap.

 

I understand what you are saying. I never dragged him anywhere lol. He was free to leave whenever he wanted

[Fudgie]

He knows that I want to get married and he doesnt. Why be cordial? I have backed off to the point where I am not initiating any contact and he continues to speak to me. It doesnt make sense. Its not for sex and we havent known each toher that long. I think he may be struggling with many things at this point.

 

Could be for many reasons. Look around on the forum here, happens to a lot of people. Some people are conflict-avoidant and rather keep someone in "Good graces" with the occasional pleasantry. Some do it because it's a little bit of an ego boost. Who knows. Like you said, he knows you want marriage and he doesn't. It's just small talk and a way to keep the connection going. It's possible that he likes things about you and misses you too but you can't be together due to your differences.

[Heannaa]

Fair enough, just be aware that you're going to scare off a lot of nice, commitment-minded guys. No one wants to feel like they are being dragged to the altar. At only 2-3 months in, how will they know if they want to marry you?? That's such a short time to know someone. I think you are asking a lot of a potential partner to know within

 

You can find commitment-minded people without being ham-handed about it.

 

What's going to happen is you're going to keep having experiences like this one where the guy where it's a crazy whirlwind romance that dies quickly and leaves you confused either because it fizzled out on its own or it just moved too quickly for its own good....or you're going to find desperate men who are willing to marry someone, anyone, asap.

 

When you are 31 and have dated many different types of men and have your life together... both Long and short term relationships, I think 6 months is long enough to decide if you see a future with this person. And the wedding date was set almost a year out after the engagment. I dont think thats fast at all. I wouldve been 32.

 

How long are you supposed to date? a few years here with this guy... Few years there with that guy. Nah I am not wasting that much time. There is such a thing as marriage minded people and non marriage minded... Doesnt mean the former is desperate.

 

Yes it was a whirlwind but doesnt hurt near as bad as walking away from a relationship that lasted 2 years and are just now discovering that he doesnt see marriage in his future.

[sargon]

I told him that I would pay him back. Why are you making me out to be the bad guy? He didnt have to go forward with any of it. I have talked to many of my friends and their husbands and, at our age, they said they knew within the first few months whether they would marry the particular girl or not.

 

I'm not saying you're the bad guy. I'm saying your approach comes accross as high pressure/ultimatum. In this particular case this guy decided to do all these things, that's on him, and I never said otherwise.

 

What I DID say was that this guy, and a lot of others are not going to respond well when a woman says she wants a commitment after 6 months and she says this only a few months after meeting him.

 

I'm saying that your approach is probably going to cost you a lot of opportunities, there are guys who might very well WANT to settle down with you but they'll bolt or act rather weird like this guy did, because they just don't do well with knowing they're with a woman who they like, and may want to be with for the long term, but who has them on a timeline. HER timeline.

[Heannaa]

I'm not saying you're the bad guy. I'm saying your approach comes accross as high pressure/ultimatum. In this particular case this guy decided to do all these things, that's on him, and I never said otherwise.

 

What I DID say was that this guy, and a lot of others are not going to respond well when a woman says she wants a commitment after 6 months and she says this only a few months after meeting him.

 

I'm saying that your approach is probably going to cost you a lot of opportunities, there are guys who might very well WANT to settle down with you but they'll bolt or act rather weird like this guy did, because they just don't do well with knowing they're with a woman who they like, and may want to be with for the long term, but who has them on a timeline. HER timeline.

 

I would continue to date him, just not exclusivly. I dont owe him my exclusivity anymore than he owes me a proposal.

[sargon]

think 6 months is long enough to decide if you see a future with this person.

 

Sure 6 months is long enough to decide if you see a future with this person. It's not enough to get engaged. Again, my opinion and I'm sure lots of people feel the way I do, and those are the ones you're going to exclude with your "6 month to commitment" approach.

 

How long are you supposed to date?

 

As long as it takes. If it's not going anywhere then you tell him you're sorry but you're looking for a commitment. A lot different doing it after a year then telling him after a few months.

 

Yes it was a whirlwind but doesnt hurt near as bad as walking away from a relationship that lasted 2 years and are just now discovering that he doesnt see marriage in his future.

 

Well that's a communication problem right there. You never talked to the guy during the 2 years about whether he'd want to get married some day? Seems like you're overcompensating now by putting it right out there after only a few months.

[Heannaa]

I'm not saying you're the bad guy. I'm saying your approach comes accross as high pressure/ultimatum. In this particular case this guy decided to do all these things, that's on him, and I never said otherwise.

 

What I DID say was that this guy, and a lot of others are not going to respond well when a woman says she wants a commitment after 6 months and she says this only a few months after meeting him.

 

I'm saying that your approach is probably going to cost you a lot of opportunities, there are guys who might very well WANT to settle down with you but they'll bolt or act rather weird like this guy did, because they just don't do well with knowing they're with a woman who they like, and may want to be with for the long term, but who has them on a timeline. HER timeline.

 

Lets agree to disagree lol

[sargon]

I would continue to date him, just not exclusivly. I dont owe him my exclusivity anymore than he owes me a proposal.

 

The fact that you would be willing to date him non exclusively after telling him that you'll be dating others because he won't marry you is really irrelevant at this point.

 

Why would you even keep dating a guy that won't marry you?

 

You have made it clear that your primary goal is to meet, get married, have a child, ASAP. It would seem staying with this guy is counterproductive, there are only so many days and minutes and emotional energy available to spend meeting that marriage minded guy.

 

What happens when that perfect "marriage minded guy" comes along and he wonders why you're still seeing your "ex"?

[sargon]

Lets agree to disagree lol

 

I don't think we disagree at all. You already acknowledge that your fast and furious approach is going to turn off a lot of guys.

 

But I agree there's nothing much else to say here.

 

Good luck

[Heannaa]

Sure 6 months is long enough to decide if you see a future with this person. It's not enough to get engaged. Again, my opinion and I'm sure lots of people feel the way I do, and those are the ones you're going to exclude with your "6 month to commitment" approach.

 

 

 

As long as it takes. If it's not going anywhere then you tell him you're sorry but you're looking for a commitment. A lot different doing it after a year then telling him after a few months.

 

 

 

Well that's a communication problem right there. You never talked to the guy during the 2 years about whether he'd want to get married some day? Seems like you're overcompensating now by putting it right out there after only a few months.

 

If they exclude me then they are not the one for me. I fall in love too easy and too fast. This way of thinking is for my protection. Because people will tell you whatever you want to hear and I tend to be gulliable. And am looking for actions not just lip service.

[Heannaa]

The fact that you would be willing to date him non exclusively after telling him that you'll be dating others because he won't marry you is really irrelevant at this point.

 

Why would you even keep dating a guy that won't marry you?

 

You have made it clear that your primary goal is to meet, get married, have a child, ASAP. It would seem staying with this guy is counterproductive, there are only so many days and minutes and emotional energy available to spend meeting that marriage minded guy.

 

What happens when that perfect "marriage minded guy" comes along and he wonders why you're still seeing your "ex"?

 

Thats the day I will stop seeing my "ex"

[Fudgie]

When you are 31 and have dated many different types of men and have your life together... both Long and short term relationships, I think 6 months is long enough to decide if you see a future with this person. And the wedding date was set almost a year out after the engagment. I dont think thats fast at all. I wouldve been 32.

 

How long are you supposed to date? a few years here with this guy... Few years there with that guy. Nah I am not wasting that much time. There is such a thing as marriage minded people and non marriage minded... Doesnt mean the former is desperate.

 

Yes it was a whirlwind but doesnt hurt near as bad as walking away from a relationship that lasted 2 years and are just now discovering that he doesnt see marriage in his future.

 

For me, 6 months is long enough to decide if I see a future with the person, ie thus far, does it look viable? I can get behind that, sure. But you're essentially wanting engagement after 6 months of dating/knowing each other, it's not like you have a long history together as friends or something. You're going to be hard-pressed to find a man who will go for that.

 

Again, you can marriage-minded but essentially expecting a ring after 6 or so months of dating, to me, does not say "commitment", it screams "desperate".

 

I think you could do well to learn to spot red flags from the start. Be wary of Any guy who throws that kind of money or material goods at you very early. It's suspect. Hell, my boyfriend (marriage minded, while I am ambivalent about it) and I have been together for just over 3 months, exclusive from the start, and the idea of him showing up with a great big thing of flowers or a crap ton of food is just too much. How did you not feel that you were being "bought"?

 

When you put up an ultimatum like that in the open, a guy may rationalize his misgivings and it will bite you both in the butt later.

[Heannaa]

I don't think we disagree at all. You already acknowledge that your fast and furious approach is going to turn off a lot of guys.

 

But I agree there's nothing much else to say here.

 

Good luck

 

Thank you for your input. I needed a good debate. Helps keep my mind sharp and off of tedious things. Good luck to you, as well. And thanks again for your thoughful and challenging point of view.

[Heannaa]

For me, 6 months is long enough to decide if I see a future with the person, ie thus far, does it look viable? I can get behind that, sure. But you're essentially wanting engagement after 6 months of dating/knowing each other, it's not like you have a long history together as friends or something. You're going to be hard-pressed to find a man who will go for that.

 

Again, you can marriage-minded but essentially expecting a ring after 6 or so months of dating, to me, does not say "commitment", it screams "desperate".

 

I think you could do well to learn to spot red flags from the start. Be wary of Any guy who throws that kind of money or material goods at you very early. It's suspect. Hell, my boyfriend (marriage minded, while I am ambivalent about it) and I have been together for just over 3 months, exclusive from the start, and the idea of him showing up with a great big thing of flowers or a crap ton of food is just too much. How did you not feel that you were being "bought"?

 

When you put up an ultimatum like that in the open, a guy may rationalize his misgivings and it will bite you both in the butt later.

 

I saw the gifts as him investing in me and our future togther. And making it known to me that he loves and cares about me and wanted to romance me with flowers and make sure I wasnt hungry by feeding me. No I didnt feel like I was being bought because he is one of the most kind, generous, biggest hearted men that I have ever known. I thought it was romantic. Because I am the same way. I just figured his love language was "buying things" to show love.

[SURPRISE]

The one thing I have learned through my first major relationship is that at over one year dating when she pulled away from me, I should have never looked back. We want people in our lives that will be there through hard times, not turn away. 9 months after splitting up, I foolishly called on her birthday because I still loved her. She came over crying and wanted me back telling me she was sorry for everything and she loved and missed me. We dated for a little over 3 years more and got married. 3 years in to the marriage she decided that I was not what she wanted and we got divorced. It wasn't like we fought all the time, she just could not find someone that she felt was better then me at the time so in her mind, she thought she had settled. The point here is that often people walk away because they have doubts. If they can't find someone they like more then you, they might be back, but do you really want that? They will tell you they need time, or some other excuse, but truth of the matter is that they have doubts. When a person is right for you they won't risk losing you.

[Heannaa]

For me, 6 months is long enough to decide if I see a future with the person, ie thus far, does it look viable? I can get behind that, sure. But you're essentially wanting engagement after 6 months of dating/knowing each other, it's not like you have a long history together as friends or something. You're going to be hard-pressed to find a man who will go for that.

 

Again, you can marriage-minded but essentially expecting a ring after 6 or so months of dating, to me, does not say "commitment", it screams "desperate".

 

I think you could do well to learn to spot red flags from the start. Be wary of Any guy who throws that kind of money or material goods at you very early. It's suspect. Hell, my boyfriend (marriage minded, while I am ambivalent about it) and I have been together for just over 3 months, exclusive from the start, and the idea of him showing up with a great big thing of flowers or a crap ton of food is just too much. How did you not feel that you were being "bought"?

 

When you put up an ultimatum like that in the open, a guy may rationalize his misgivings and it will bite you both in the butt later.

 

Im sorry that your boyfriend wants marriage and you are ambivalent towards it. That is exactly the situation I am trying to avoid.

 

I never expected a ring. How do you not understand that? I told him thats what I want, if he doesnt, there is the door.

[Heannaa]

The one thing I have learned through my first major relationship is that at over one year dating when she pulled away from me, I should have never looked back. We want people in our lives that will be there through hard times, not turn away. 9 months after splitting up, I foolishly called on her birthday because I still loved her. She came over crying and wanted me back telling me she was sorry for everything and she loved and missed me. We dated for a little over 3 years more and got married. 3 years in to the marriage she decided that I was not what she wanted and we got divorced. It wasn't like we fought all the time, she just could not find someone that she felt was better then me at the time so in her mind, she thought she had settled. The point here is that often people walk away because they have doubts. If they can't find someone they like more then you, they might be back, but do you really want that? They will tell you they need time, or some other excuse, but truth of the matter is that they have doubts. When a person is right for you they won't risk losing you.

 

Thank you so much! I am sorry to hear about your experience, I am sure that was hard on you. I hope you are feeling better these days.

 

I think you are spot on with your advice "they wont risk losing you" that is so true and you are absolutely right. I think thats the part that is making my heart hurt... Hes not scared to lose me while h takes his time.

[LC8328]

Hi OP,

 

Just some observations...namely you seem focused on who's 'right' or 'wrong' or you being labeled as a 'bad guy,' etc. It's not about right or wrong. Two people can both be right or wrong a number of times in the same arguments. (I am aware of this because my husband tells me I am the same way, LOL.) So first...let that go. We're just trying to help you here, not attack you, although I'm sure it feels that way.

 

Here's the thing. You did put pressure on your BF (I know he's an ex/ fiance/ etc but for the sake of brevity I'm just going to say BF) but you didn't do it in an obnoxious nagging way. You didn't tell him "you better put a ring on my finger in 6 months or I'm outta here." But however you slice it, it is still pressure. The point is, he knows what you mean, what you want. Your manner of delivery doesn't change things.

 

So he jumped on it. He jumped on it to make you happy because he probably does care for you. But what I've learned personally is that a relationship that starts out as a whirlwind usually ends that way too, whereas relationships that take time to blossom tend to have a more solid foundation.

 

Which brings me to my next point. If I may, having been a person who married in my teens and having a close friend who waited until her 30's to marry, I can tell you that while you are DEFINITELY not a bad guy...you are focusing on the marriage, which is priority number 1 in your relationship/ love/ dating world. Because of this, other things have been distorted, because like it or not, it puts a deadline on the both of you that is tangible...even though you are not nagging him, even if you never mentioned it again. He knows it's there. You know it's there. It's the proverbial pink elephant in the room, and it's slowly suffocating your relationship with him.

 

Why? Well, because marriage is supposed to be a culmination of dating a person who has turned out to be amazing, connects with you, shares the same values...a person you cannot live without. A person you'd rather die than hurt. It's significant because, among other things, it tells the world and God (if you're religious) that you have found your partner in life, the one who will be by your side, and the one whose side you'll be on. You're coming at it from the opposite end: You have a picture already hanging in your mind and you want to cut and trim a person down so they fit the picture that's already there.

 

imo, you being focused on the marriage destination will work to your detriment (as it has already probably), because you can't force these events which are supposed to come about on its own. A few years ago I was telling a friend that I was sad because for some reason I wasn't getting pregnant. She said, "Um, hello, you already have 2 kids. You're already blessed."

 

She was right. I'm 38 and reaching a point in my life where another baby may or may not happen. But I have to realize, just as you might want to realize, that I can't control every aspect of my life this way. Life is not a business that I can make contracts for and agreements and amendments. Sure, I'd like another baby, but if it doesn't happen, that's okay too, because I do have many other blessings in my life.

 

I'm telling you this because I'm hinting that it might be a good idea to loosen up your marriage destination a bit. When and if it happens, you want it to really mean something. You don't want your new husband to be sitting at the reception considering on getting an annulment. You want your husband to be sitting there at the reception thinking, "I have been through so much with this woman. Our love has stood through trials, happiness, sickness...and we're still together. This is the happiest day of my life."

 

Maybe I'm being overly romantic about this, but that's kind of the idea, right? But to each her own. I get that you want certain things for yourself, I'm just suggesting that in focusing on the marriage destination, you may be missing out on other things, things that could make you just as happy, if not happier.

[Fudgie]

Im sorry that your boyfriend wants marriage and you are ambivalent towards it. That is exactly the situation I am trying to avoid.

 

I never expected a ring. How do you not understand that? I told him thats what I want, if he doesnt, there is the door.

He knows of my ambivalence and doesn't mind. No problem here.

 

I'm saying, if that's what you are looking for in a guy, you are going to be disappointed. I hope we get more guys here who want marriage who want weigh on this.

 

I did ask my boyfriend a few min ago a hypothetical about this thread, and he said that have scared him if a woman told him that. I'd wager most marriage minded men feel the same. 6 months is not enough to know if you want to marry someone, for most people.

[Heannaa]

Hi OP,

 

Just some observations...namely you seem focused on who's 'right' or 'wrong' or you being labeled as a 'bad guy,' etc. It's not about right or wrong. Two people can both be right or wrong a number of times in the same arguments. (I am aware of this because my husband tells me I am the same way, LOL.) So first...let that go. We're just trying to help you here, not attack you, although I'm sure it feels that way.

 

Here's the thing. You did put pressure on your BF (I know he's an ex/ fiance/ etc but for the sake of brevity I'm just going to say BF) but you didn't do it in an obnoxious nagging way. You didn't tell him "you better put a ring on my finger in 6 months or I'm outta here." But however you slice it, it is still pressure. The point is, he knows what you mean, what you want. Your manner of delivery doesn't change things.

 

So he jumped on it. He jumped on it to make you happy because he probably does care for you. But what I've learned personally is that a relationship that starts out as a whirlwind usually ends that way too, whereas relationships that take time to blossom tend to have a more solid foundation.

 

Which brings me to my next point. If I may, having been a person who married in my teens and having a close friend who waited until her 30's to marry, I can tell you that while you are DEFINITELY not a bad guy...you are focusing on the marriage, which is priority number 1 in your relationship/ love/ dating world. Because of this, other things have been distorted, because like it or not, it puts a deadline on the both of you that is tangible...even though you are not nagging him, even if you never mentioned it again. He knows it's there. You know it's there. It's the proverbial pink elephant in the room, and it's slowly suffocating your relationship with him.

 

Why? Well, because marriage is supposed to be a culmination of dating a person who has turned out to be amazing, connects with you, shares the same values...a person you cannot live without. A person you'd rather die than hurt. It's significant because, among other things, it tells the world and God (if you're religious) that you have found your partner in life, the one who will be by your side, and the one whose side you'll be on. You're coming at it from the opposite end: You have a picture already hanging in your mind and you want to cut and trim a person down so they fit the picture that's already there.

 

imo, you being focused on the marriage destination will work to your detriment (as it has already probably), because you can't force these events which are supposed to come about on its own. A few years ago I was telling a friend that I was sad because for some reason I wasn't getting pregnant. She said, "Um, hello, you already have 2 kids. You're already blessed."

 

She was right. I'm 38 and reaching a point in my life where another baby may or may not happen. But I have to realize, just as you might want to realize, that I can't control every aspect of my life this way. Life is not a business that I can make contracts for and agreements and amendments. Sure, I'd like another baby, but if it doesn't happen, that's okay too, because I do have many other blessings in my life.

 

I'm telling you this because I'm hinting that it might be a good idea to loosen up your marriage destination a bit. When and if it happens, you want it to really mean something. You don't want your new husband to be sitting at the reception considering on getting an annulment. You want your husband to be sitting there at the reception thinking, "I have been through so much with this woman. Our love has stood through trials, happiness, sickness...and we're still together. This is the happiest day of my life."

 

Maybe I'm being overly romantic about this, but that's kind of the idea, right? But to each her own. I get that you want certain things for yourself, I'm just suggesting that in focusing on the marriage destination, you may be missing out on other things, things that could make you just as happy, if not happier.

 

Thank you for your kind approach. Like you said I guess I just need to accept the fact that I may never get married. Everything Ive ever had Ive had to work my butt off for, to me this is no different. Guess it is my mindset that's holding me back. Good luck on having another baby... God knows my heart and my intentions and will put the right man in front of me when we are both ready.