Tinder Review Turns into Epiphany/Rant

[Batya33]

I know of a few women who were into gifts/fancy meals - I was not/most were not. It was flattering of course but not the reason I went out with those men.

 

I do think realistically that women in your age group who are looking for long term relationships are going to look for financial stability and someone whose salary is sufficient to live on (I mean, for you to live on) plus build a nest egg/savings. When I was 34 that salary would have been acceptable if it was a very temporary, emergency situation where the person was temporarily unemployed and doing a low wage job or a side business just until he could return to his career or higher paying job. When I was in my early 20s it would have been ok in that same situation or if the person was a full time student in college or grad school.

[Hermes]

Sportser:

 

Thought I'd put this up for you and anyone who wants to read:

 

".... misandry is everywhere, culturally acceptable, even normative, largely invisible, taught directly and indirectly by men and women, blind to reality, very damaging and dangerous to men and women in different ways and de-humanizing. This post is to help make it visible and to deal with it - as we have dealt with, or tried to deal with, misogyny, racism and homophobia."

 

and:

 

"Popular Culture: Misandry is now institutionalized in popular culture. Joke books, fridge magnets, T-shirts, coffee mugs, newspaper cartoons, TV sitcoms all deride all men all the time. There is no equal opportunity contempt, which in some respects is probably a good thing, but one wonders about the need for contempt. T-shirts say: "Women Rule. Men Drool" and "Boys are smelly. Throw rocks at them." - an advocacy of violence which would be unconscionable were the sexes reversed. "Dead Men Don't Rape." Nor do most living men, of course. "So many men. So little ammunition." "What do you call a man with half a brain? Gifted." And so it continues. One joke book is titled "Men and other Reptiles" and another is "101 Reasons why a cat is better than a man." The consequences of such male-negativity are not clear, but such negative affirmations seem likely to have, and to have had over the decades, a negative impact on both sexes: self-loathing and/or a resistance-generated misogyny among men, and contempt for men among women."

 

From this article:

 

link removed

[Rosti87]

Only thing is that we need to be careful that we don't swing the pendulum in the other direction. Moderation is the key.

[TMifune]

Only thing is that we need to be careful that we don't swing the pendulum in the other direction. Moderation is the key.

 

What pendulum? If we stop being demeaning and condescending to men that should have no bearing on women unless we start being demeaning and condescending to them. It's not a zero-sum game.

[ParisPaulette]

That's just sick. Seriously, is wrong with people. Of course, you can find the same with women too. I think popular culture sometimes tries to foster a war between the sexes while at the same time filling our heads with crap that helps no one and gives us all unrealistic expectations of each other.

 

Everyone should just be based on the person they are, right here and right now, and the world would be a far better place. Sadly, I know that's a dream that too many good men and women have died for and will continue to die for. Or as the button that my friends sports says: "What can you expect from a generation raised on princess movies and Internet porn?" Unreal standards for all indeed.

[Rosti87]

What pendulum? If we stop being demeaning and condescending to men that should have no bearing on women unless we start being demeaning and condescending to them. It's not a zero-sum game.

 

I don't see things in black in white. Moderation is the key. I simply emphasizing the importance of it. No need to attack.

[Misskitty16]

Excellent post, Sportster. I agree that we all can have our preferences (even our fantasies), but to wait and hold out for someone meeting those 100% is going to be a form of torture. And I don't care how perfect someone is. There will always be someone prettier, someone richer, more successful.

 

I disagree on one point - just because a woman has been on-line for years does not mean she is holding out for perfect or that something is wrong with her. I have been off and on POF for years and have not had a boyfriend for years. I am of average looks, I am also 50 (but I don't seek younger men). For some reason, ex-cons find me particularly desirable. So don't judge those of us who have been on-line for a long time. Sure, I have met some "good" guys, but define good. "Nice" is just not enough, would it be enough for you?

[IAmFCA]

We attract who we are... if I look for people who fit a checklist, I can expect I will be held to the same exacting standard. And I am experiencing that now...

 

My checklist is four things -- unless you ask me to get into detail, and then I would have to admit to the ways that I screen, which are ridiculous enough that even on OKC it says I already have looked at everyone who qualifies. I am not hell bent on finding someone; if someone makes it through, I will take a look. If not, that's fine too.

 

If we are talking about love: There is no "fair" in dating. There just isn't. Its love. It isn't a transaction. We are looking for someone who will love us 30 years from now, when tragedy and joy will have shaped us in ways we can't possibly guess.

 

A dating site with questions such as "Which do you value most, money, humanity, or motherhood" would be too easy to game. Its time to accept the inequity just as there is IRL and keep rolling.

[Sportster2005]

Hi MiissKitty, I wasn't implying that everyone who has been online for a long time has something wrong with them. There are good reasons and bad reasons why people stay online. I am not judging anyone. I am frustrated with some people's behavior. And I don't hold people to a higher standard of behavior than myself. I've made errors and poor judgments, and have hurt and disappointed. I'm sorry if you feel judged and offended, it wasn't my intention.

 

I've never believed just 'nice' is enough. Being nice is something I expect. You're supposed to be a nice person. You don't extra points for being nice.

[Misskitty16]

Hi MiissKitty, I wasn't implying that everyone who has been online for a long time has something wrong with them. There are good reasons and bad reasons why people stay online. I am not judging anyone. I am frustrated with some people's behavior. And I don't hold people to a higher standard of behavior than myself. I've made errors and poor judgments, and have hurt and disappointed. I'm sorry if you feel judged and offended, it wasn't my intention.

 

I've never believed just 'nice' is enough. Being nice is something I expect. You're supposed to be a nice person. You don't extra points for being nice.

 

So true! I am always shocked at the number of profiles of men who say "I will treat women with respect"...umm.....yeah, I would hope so! Or "I will be faithful.." No bonus points for that one, either. I'm sure women are just as guilty of such statements, but I don't read their profiles.

[Sportster2005]

My favorite commercial is a man is standing in front of shelves lined with toilet paper. The actor looks dumb. He's almost drooling as he scans the shelves. Then there's a voice over jingle that goes something like this. "Just remember what your wife told you". It plays into the stereotype that men are too stupid to successfully navigate the complexity of choosing toilet paper.

 

There are some troubling stereotypes being perpetuated by popular culture. But men are't the only, or biggest target. Money is boss. And if it means demeaning a group, so what? And besides being a white middle class male, I hardly feel like a victim. On the contrary I feel very fortunate. I am glad to see the gains women have made over the decades. And there is still ground to be made up. If some of them want to hate or resent me, that's their problem, not mine.

[Hermes]

Absolutely agree with you, Sportser.

 

That said, I am amazed at the amount of misandry there is, or to use it's more popular name "man bashing".

[Misskitty16]

I do notice that commercials are geared towards making men look stupid. I can only assume this is because the Marketing Powers that Be have come to the conclusion that women do more grocery shopping than men. But even if this is true, I don't need to see men portrayed that way in order to buy a certain brand of product.

[Hermes]

On a roll here, Sportser

 

link removed

 

Excerpt:

 

"...it all came into focus when my seven-year-old daughter commented on the fact that in the programmes she watches on TV, the dads are always silly and the mums are bossy and sensible. And judging by the sort of scripts I get sent, I think that's broadly true. Most writers and producers are scared of being accused of sexism by showing a ditzy mother figure and a solid dad, so they've simply reversed the roles. But you know what? That's sexist too, because it's still a lazy gender stereotype of the sort we'd all be better off without."

[browneyedgirl36]

Yep -- there was a fast food chain ad here in the U.S. -- for Carl's Jr. (Hardee's to you folks in other parts of the States), where the guy is standing in front of the meat counter in the supermarket, looking clueless, and the voiceover says, "Without us, some guys would starve." I remember being really offended by that ad, and I'm a woman. Then again, most of the ads for cleaning products still feature women -- mopping, doing the laundry, cleaning the bathroom -- so...ad agencies, at least, are stuck in some silly time warp and/or gleefully promoting outdated stereotypes.

 

For the record, I have NO idea how to choose a good steak, and I'd be afraid to try to cook one, lest I completely screw it up. Other things, no problem, but...any red meat other than hamburger, and I'm clueless.

[Sportster2005]

We often talk about the ease with which mainstream lookers (yes Annie I agree re mainstream)attract people on line... seems like a reasonable conclusion, since those folks easily attract people off line as well.

 

The point I want to make is --- it remains a challenge for everyone to attract SOMEONE WHO FITS. Lookers might attract many, but few if any whom they would seriously consider for an LTR. To that person, the many is of marginal value and may be actually detract from the value of OLD.

 

I think some people find 'fits' more easily. For whatever reason, they seem to transition from relationship to relationship easily. I suspect it's a combination of easily accepting other's faults, and the fear of being alone. And this may not be a static quality. I know I was more open to a relationship in 2009 than I am in 2015. I'm still not too hung up on people's faults. I have discovered there's a difference between someone I like and attracted to, and someone who can sustain my interest long term. In other words, I can date you, but can I live with you? Do I want to be with you so much I am willing to give up some privacy and some of my me time? And as I live by myself longer it becomes more comfortable.

 

On the other hand I'm about to head downtown. It's Canada Day. The waterfront will be packed with people and activities. And like every year there will be couples holding hands pausing to kiss and smile. There will be couples sitting on the many outdoor patios relaxing with a beer and some pub food. I could probably have a date today. But there's something about a holiday. It makes you want more than just a date.

 

So what's my point? I don't know anymore

 

Oh yeah, some people find 'fits' easier than others.

[Hermes]

Happy Canada Day, Sportser! Enjoy the festive atmosphere.

[Jean-Luc]

So true! I am always shocked at the number of profiles of men who say "I will treat women with respect"...umm.....yeah, I would hope so! Or "I will be faithful.." No bonus points for that one, either. I'm sure women are just as guilty of such statements, but I don't read their profiles.

 

I think some men have this attitude because a lot of them have seen women in relationships where the men ended up not being so nice or respectful to them, yet women would prolong it further than they should.

 

There do seem to be quite a lot of women out there(mainly younger women younger than 30) from my observation that are with guys who are quite self centered and are in fact "jerks". They may seem like good guys to the girl as long as they're getting what they want and as long as they're satisfied with it.

 

I also think a lot of people are raised up and hold the mentality and believe that if they're nice, people will offer friendships or relationships or something of cherished value in return. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've been burned many a time by acting friendly to someone and thinking they would be friendly back, or give me "a chance", as far as getting to know me. I now know that indifferent politeness is the key when dealing with most people. Concentrating on what you want to do with your life as far as a career and getting on your own two feet and what hobbies you enjoy makes it much easier than just being "nice".

[itsallgrand]

I think so too!

 

But I think when you find your fit, Sportster, she is going to be one hell of a woman!

[Sportster2005]

 

My experiences with online dating has been great - so long as I had very few expectations. Online dating is more like dessert than the main course.

 

When it comes to conversations about OLD it's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

I still think it's a way to meet people. But only one way, and shouldn't be the only way. But for me, I can only handle it in short blips. As evidenced by my post, I seem to get more frustrated by it more and more as time goes by.

 

OLD as given me many opportunities to practice dating, and dealing with people in general. I've made good friends, which has grown my social circle, which in turn has lead to other dates.

 

And I have to take ownership of some of my OLD failures. I can think of at least two women who were perfectly good matches. I, and I alone let them get away due to my own misreading and mishandling of the situation.

 

And as I've said before and believe, if you want to be successful in dating IRL or OLD you have to stay positive. It's O.K to get frustrated and take a break. But if you stay stuck in a funk or feed the resentment beast you might as well stay home.

[Rosti87]

I agree. A level set of expectations should go both ways. Sometimes this is not the expectation. May I add that it also depends on where you live. As a line in the lyrics of a song state,

 

"Get in where you fit in,"

 

The key is to know and understand this no matter where you are.

[IAmFCA]

You spoke my mind.

 

Have fun today!

[IAmFCA]

On the issue of ditzy dads and sensible moms... I would like, as a woman, the power to be ditzy and know that someone sensible will cover my sweet arse. There is a certain luxury in being able to say "I don't know how to do that." If it is a gender-specific pattern, it is sexism that cuts both ways no matter what one's perspective is. Flipping it from one gender to the other is just silly.

 

If we would simply start using same-sex couples in advertising we would avoid the appearance of sexist messaging.

[Misskitty16]

I strongly disagree with "we attract what we are". I have attracted many ex-cons and jerks, and I do not know why. I certainly am not a criminal - I am pretty straight-laced. People are often attracted to all kinds of people - not necessarily people that are similar to themselves.

[Rosti87]

I strongly disagree with "we attract what we are". I have attracted many ex-cons and jerks, and I do not know why. I certainly am not a criminal - I am pretty straight-laced. People are often attracted to all kinds of people - not necessarily people that are similar to themselves.

It's not always a 'similarity' but where you are emotionally/mentally in that moment in time.

 

Here is an example:

 

A person keeps attracting people who are unfaithful. Is the person ignoring the early flags that indicate this person is a no no? That person in that moment in time does not possess the ability or possibly the self esteem to either recognize and move on. Or they recognize but hold out and hope it gets better.

 

I can only speak for myself here. When I say someone attracts who they are it includes their dating skill sets, their self esteem and their emotional well being. Players know what type of people to play. Emotionally unavailable people know which people to choose, etc. It is up to us to screen and refuse to be 'attracted' to these types unless that is what we want.

 

If we allow this over and over we need to look within.