Tinder Review Turns into Epiphany/Rant

[Hermes]

Yes, Rosti.

 

Predators know exactly which types to target. The emotionally vulnerable/fragile, the needy, those with a less than appropriate sense of self. Predatory types are uncanny at reading those signals, even if the signals are not that obvious.

[Rosti87]

Yes, Rosti.

 

Predators know exactly which types to target. The emotionally vulnerable/fragile, the needy, those with a less than appropriate sense of self. Predatory types are uncanny at reading those signals, even if the signals are not that obvious.

I would also opine that some people who are on the road of recovery (child of an alcoholic, survivor of child abuse) may still attract these interlopers as adults. But if they possess the skills to recognize what is coming at them they can save themselves a lot of pain.

 

Not everyone's childhood was safe. Many went thru trials and tribulations and bring that into adulthood and become 'prey' to predatory types. They need to do the inner work to improve their attraction to others.

[IAmFCA]

Yes, Rosti.

 

Predators know exactly which types to target. The emotionally vulnerable/fragile, the needy, those with a less than appropriate sense of self. Predatory types are uncanny at reading those signals, even if the signals are not that obvious.

 

Yes, and the reason this fits with the attract who we are framework is that a predator and a victim are two sides of the same coin, both using control as a way to fill some inner need. For example, avoiding control, exercising inappropriate control - these dynamics address the same emotional need to feel safe.

 

Intimacy, same thing - chase it, avoid it: both is an out-of-balance response to try to find safety within it.

 

In terms of these dynamics, balanced folk (not necessarily better or worse people, but balanced in terms of the above needs, for example) attract balanced folk by letting each other be, and not reading attraction or rejection into it. Either decision evolves over time.

[ParisPaulette]

I sort of have a different take on the whole "attracting a certain type." I think we all attract these less than savory sorts. I think they exist anywhere they know potentially vulnerable people will be hence OLD, colleges, bars, clubs etc. in short anywhere that people gather and are open to meeting new people. It's just that someone who acts or responds in a certain way to them gets weeded out really quickly versus someone who doesn't or who responds in a way they were looking for as a signal to continue.

 

For example, I used to let anyone just up and start oversharing with me. Trying very hard to be liked and not feeling like it would be nice to speak my mind, I let people I had just met overshare the living heck out of themselves with me. I appreciated their earnest "I'm just being open here" explanations for sharing details of things that should have had me running for the door instead of nodding sagely and saying, "Thank you for telling me that." I went out with people and yes even formed relationships with men and friends that I knew in my heart of hearts were toxic and yet I did it all in the name of being "a nice girl." The psychology behind that I won't get into, but let's just say I wasn't in the healthiest of head spaces and we'll leave it at that.

 

And yes, I ended up with an entire history of bad relationships that I knew better about, but ignored myself to have. Then I finally decided that I'd had enough after a couple of very unnerving incidents and life kicking me in the butt a few times. And whenever anyone started to overshare that I didn't know or was getting to know I'd simply state, "Wait, you are oversharing here and I'm not in a position to help you or hear about that." If they persisted I left and/or signed off and didn't give them the time of day. Ditto any immediate disclosures of undesirable behaviors, habits or past experiences. No sir, you do not get a cookie for being "upfront" and telling me about how you've been in prison three times or have a short temper and to not be alarmed if you get into fights while we're out.

 

And my dealing with criminals, con artists, and people displaying alarming red flag behaviors drastically or wanting to use me for their own agendas dwindled. So did my number of dates, but I considered it a win-win not to be going out with people that would end up making me cry or fearing for my life. And yes, plenty of those types tried, it's just I stopped responding to them and if they showed up I quickly ending things and didn't engage.

 

And I think that's the big difference in the types we "attract" who do we choose to engage with and who do we not. And when I chose to engage people that I saw seemed like decent sorts what I got were decent people in my life. And yes, I know that's simplistic and yes, it took some serious therapy to get me there. But I think it's more about who you engage and being able to listen to yourself and stop ignoring red flags than it is about attracting a certain type of person. I know some won't agree with me and I know many people have no clue what they are doing wrong to have certain types of people show up in their lives repeatedly. For years that was me and I was convinced I was a magnet for the wrong type of men. The bad boys of the world if you will. And I didn't see for the longest time it was simply because when these people showed up I engaged them and kept on letting them be in my life and interacting with them versus turning them away before things ever got started.

 

Of course this doesn't count getting fooled by someone who may present one face and be another way entirely. Most of us have had that happen and I'm not sure what you can do about that except realize there were red flags and if you get free of the situation long enough you will usually see what those were. I know one thing I found is that any time you have to make excuses for someone else's behavior chances are really high you shouldn't and you should just be saying goodbye instead.

[Sportster2005]

If is simplistic. But I think that's part of the brilliance and genius of the idea.

 

I still attract the wrong type of person for me. I don't engage them though. It can be challenging not to. Part old habits, and part in can be a quick fix.

 

I also am starting to attract the right people for me. It has been a long hard journey these last eight years. My struggle is I don't now how to keep these people engaged. I'm still sorting this. It's hard to explain.

 

Anyways enough about me, I love the way you succinctly describe this and couldn't agree with you more.

[Rosti87]

If is simplistic. But I think that's part of the brilliance and genius of the idea.

 

I still attract the wrong type of person for me. I don't engage them though. It can be challenging not to. Part old habits, and part in can be a quick fix.

 

I also am starting to attract the right people for me. It has been a long hard journey these last eight years. My struggle is I don't now how to keep these people engaged. I'm still sorting this. It's hard to explain.

 

Anyways enough about me, I love the way you succinctly describe this and couldn't agree with you more.

 

You sure have started something here Sportster...

[Grace696]

I like and agree with Ms Darcy's idea that OLD should be just one of a "suite of measures" (to use an annoying phrase politicians love) to meet someone. Even though as something of an introvert to me it sounds frankly exhausting..

 

I know of too many successful relationships that have come out of OLD to dismiss it completely. OLD is undeniably demoralising, confusing, infuriating, often painful, and a constant headf***. It's hard not get bitter and, well, mean. You've pretty much said this yourself, Sportster, but it seems to me that you really have to be in the right frame of mind for OLD, and it's nigh on impossible to maintain that frame of mind for long in the face of the inevitable frustrations that come with it. Maybe some of us need to dip in and out of OLD, only going back when we feel like our attitude is in a good space for it.

 

Also, everyone always says this but I've definitely seen it proved true several times for others: it's a numbers game. My sister, who is currently blissfully loved up in a happy relationship that came out of OLD (after years of no luck) says it's like finding a needle in a haystack. We just need to somehow keep our spirits up while we are looking.

[ForestofDreams]

I've been on pof and I agree it is hilarious...but also downright creepy. I'm not kidding when I say 85% of the guys on there ask for sex after pretending to be a knight in shining armor. It's frustrating. You feel like "I finally met someone really amazing, sweet, humble, and someone who lit the lonely fire in my heart - Yes!" then he suddenly takes out the pervert card of truth. It's like night and day...suddenly he's sounds like some unrecognizable midnight drunk who's favourite topic is sex, sex, and ...really disturbing sub-topics of sex. I'm not saying all guys are like this...but pof is an easy way for these people to try to lure girls into this.

 

After a while it gets depressing. I'm not a very "sexy" girl as well. All my pictures are me wearing jeans and long sleeved sweaters, and maybe the odd picture of my pet cat lol! So why? Do they think I'm desperate? Or do they just send out hoards of emails they copied and pasted to whoever is online? Meeting people who actually want a genuine relationship on pof is like finding a needle in a hay stack. It's become the internet's best place to find the very worse of the worse...when it comes to actual dating and commitment or anything even close to.

 

It did give me lots of funny stories though, of some of the people who I actually did end up meeting. They weren't registered sex offenders thank god, but just people who threw me for a loop instead of having a proper date. (example: one guy had a collection of swords he had placed all over his living room floor (it scared the living daylight out of me. Thought I was going to be killed!) turns out it was just his weird hobby...I never saw him again....another guy broke his watch while he was out and flipped out so bad, it was like watching a 2 year old throw a temper tantrum, then he directed his angry gaze at me and said "this only happens when I'm on dates!" like it was my fault)....anyway.....REALLLLLY weird people who lurk on POF.

 

I suggest never using that site. It's not just ridiculous, it can be rather dangerous. Never know who's on the other end of the computer screen. Ugh!

[Hermes]

Forest says:

 

"Meeting people who actually want a genuine relationship on pof is like finding a needle in a hay stack. It's become the internet's best place to find the very worse of the worse...when it comes to actual dating and commitment or anything even close to."

".anyway.....REALLLLLY weird people who lurk on POF."

 

Reading here (not that I didn't know already how sleazy the online dating scene is) makes me so glad I never have, and never would, even try it.

[Batya33]

Several of my friends who are quality people (understatement) met their spouses (also quality people, understatement) through dating sites. I did not but met over 100 men in person and many of them were good, genuine people, just not good matches for me.

[Dougie_D]

I've come to a conclusion that there is really no difference how the income of your date becomes. The process is not even that different. It's just a different type of setting. The difference is the emotional part of being rejected or not and how fast it is being rejected or not.

 

OLD - Every dating site has PICTURES.

IRL - You are a constant PICTURE.

 

OLD - Your profile summary may or may not be filled to it fullest. Tinder doesn't even have a profile.

IRL - Your "profile summary" is how your body language is.

 

OLD - You have to "message" who you want to talk to.

IRL - You have to "make conversation" who you want to talk to.

 

OLD - You are judged by your looks first almost ALL the time (tinder only allows messaging if you both say "yes" based on pictures)

IRL - You are judged by your looks first almost ALL the time.

 

OLD - You carry on a "message" until one formally asks them for a number or even a date right then. You text awhile and try plan to "meet". (date)

IRL - You carry on a "conversation" until one formally asks them for a number or even a date right the. You text awhile and try to get a date.

 

OLD - You get rejected much faster and blunt sometimes --- they don't even respond to your message, they drop off from the conversation , you swap numbers try to meet up but you get flaked at last second.

IRL - You get rejected but much secretly slower and less blunt ---they will drop hints and it's up to you to figure them out, you swap numbers try to meet up but somehow you still get flaked.

 

OLD - Instant gratification - go online, browse, and start messaging to whoever, sometimes say whatever to test the waters, even being butt naked

IRL - Social Environment settings - need to act a certain way, dress nice, approaching and timing is critical

 

 

So my conclusion is that people can be successful in both worlds finding a date. But I do believe that there is different personality characteristic from each. My roommate can get any girl he wants, but he admitted that without OLD, he'd be clueless. He's not the type to go out and approach women IRL. My girl roommate is learning the OLD after only meeting people IRL. She's gone at least 1 or 2 dates with 6 guys already in ONE month.

 

It seems like people are just less active IRL because they are either scared of being rejected IRL and it OLD becomes conveniant. THen they complain and stuff.

 

I've come to a conclusion, if I can't get dates in both OLD or IRL. I'm just not attractive. and I'm honestly over all of it.

[Rosti87]

Those are probably the demographics that we mentioned earlier that have a better chance of getting a match on OLD. I don't deny that there are successful matches. One of my friends is enjoying a successful match on OLD, but she fits in that 'sweet spot' of highly desired people on OLD sites.

[happy_snapper]

The difference I see between OLD and IRL, is that IRL you get to see each other, rather than reading what the other wants to say about themselves.

 

I could put on my profile that I'm a fun guy to be around, but that's a throwaway statement that 90% of guys are going to say.

When my girlfriend first met me (at a geeky gaming meetup), she liked the way I was friendly and confident with everybody. She could see that I was a fun person to be around and enjoyed talking to me. I was impressed by the amount we had to talk about after knowing each other for 5 minutes. And of course, physically speaking, we're a good-looking pair who don't always photograph well.

 

If we'd read each other's profiles online, I don't think we would have bothered messaging each other.

 

IRL you get to judge each other's character by interacting with them, rather than guessing how much of their profile is made up and how old the pictures are.

[Batya33]

That is why I did not date online but simply used dating sites to meet people in real life. I exchanged one or two messages and one or two phone calls at most and when I met in person I treated the information I got from the phone calls/messages mostly for safety reasons and with the minimum standard of "do I think I could have a pleasant conversation for 30-45 minutes with this person. So for me it had only minimal difference to "real life". Because it was. Also I was used to being set up on blind dates for many years -no photos, just a phone call -so at least here I had some idea of what the person looked like.

 

I did not care how old the photo was but I did care about lying. So if he posted old photos because he gained a lot of weight and was trying to hide that from me, I cared far more about the lie than the extra weight.

 

For those people who never did blind dates or who chose to "date" online or exchange multiple typed words before meeting, etc I can see where it's significantly different from meeting in real life.

[happy_snapper]

Yeah... my experience: The amount of women willing to meet after only exchanging a few words? 0%

Giving out a phone number? Maybe 2%

[ParisPaulette]

I also am starting to attract the right people for me. It has been a long hard journey these last eight years. My struggle is I don't now how to keep these people engaged. I'm still sorting this. It's hard to explain.

 

Anyways enough about me, I love the way you succinctly describe this and couldn't agree with you more.

 

Thanks. And you will get there. Forming healthy relationships takes some time to develop as a habit like all habits. And part of why I think it can be harder to maintain those friendships and relationships is because people in a good place take the time to get to know each other, there isn't the insta-bonding insta-relationship that takes place with more toxic people. It took me a very long time to learn that.

 

In the grand scheme of things I think you're doing fine Sportster. Live your life, have fun, and people who don't return emails and messages they started should read Ms. Manners in my books. I have that as a bit of a pet peeve too. "Um hello, you messaged me first, what gives with now going radio silent after I answer you?" Really, I do not understand what that's about. I don't think anyone does really.

[Sportster2005]

 

I've come to a conclusion, if I can't get dates in both OLD or IRL. I'm just not attractive. and I'm honestly over all of it.

 

Dougie, Dougie, Dougie, You're obviously a smart guy. Drop the self loathing routine.

[cobblestone]

Generally, I find women to be very hypergamous when it comes to online dating.

When it comes to online dating for men, unless you're tall and white, you're screwed. 10% of guys get 90% of girls. 95% of the top 10% of guys are tall and white.

 

It's really discouraging when 80% of the profiles you visit, you are automatically disqualified when you see "must be taller than X... must be Caucasian..."

[Batya33]

Yeah... my experience: The amount of women willing to meet after only exchanging a few words? 0%

Giving out a phone number? Maybe 2%

 

I was never willing to meet only if we exchanged a typed message. Definitely not safe enough IMO. I always asked for his number after we exchanged the first message if he did not ask for mine. I wasn't going to type back and forth -waste of time. I was willing to meet if we had at least one phone call of about 15-20 minutes and I felt that after that phone call that there were no red flags and that I believed we could have a pleasant conversation in person for about an hour give or take.

[ForestofDreams]

I think some people have such high standards online (that arn't even realistic) is because they think it's a point and click sort of thing...like buying stuff on ebay or amazon lol. So people just like "order their significant other" online They get to choose whatever "details" they like....and then the regulars are created, the people who never find "the one" because they never realize what they are asking for is really pretty much impossible to find in reality. For me it all comes down to personality. For me that's everything.

 

I gave up with the online dating scene (spent around 8 years muddling through it), recently I've been meeting people in real life, and it's just a whole different feeling (in my experience anyway) it's even more romantic and natural.

[missmarple]

When it comes to online dating for men, unless you're tall and white, you're screwed.

 

And if you're a fat woman, you're also screwed.

I've gone out with over 200 men....and, at least, 80% of them mentioned, at some point, that they can't stand fat women...and this came from men who were no top models themselves.

Personally, I don't care if someone is fat or slim (I'm normal weight myself) and never have...but I do want someone who isn't shorter than me (I'm 5'7)...men, on the other hand, don't care if a woman is short as long as she's slim...so, yeah, I think it's the same for both genders when it comes to online dating...tall guys and slim women will always get more messages than short guys and fat women...c'est la vie.

 

PS I don't know what happens if someone isn't white etc..there are very few non-white people here and even fewer on online dating sites, so, I have no idea how they would be perceived...myself, I wouldn't care at all about someone's colour.

[Hermes]

Miss Marple:

 

Why do you think that is?

 

"here are very few non-white people here and even fewer on online dating sites, so, I have no idea how they would be perceived...myself, I wouldn't care at all about someone's colour."

[missmarple]

Miss Marple do you think that is?

 

Why do I think what is? I don't understand the question.

[Hermes]

MM:

 

Here goes again. What you said is in inverted commas, and I am asking you why you think there are few non-white people ...etc. etc.

 

Miss Marple:

 

Why do you think that is?

 

"here are very few non-white people here and even fewer on online dating sites, so, I have no idea how they would be perceived...myself, I wouldn't care at all about someone's colour."

[missmarple]

MM:

 

Here goes again. What you said is in inverted commas, and I am asking you why you think there are few non-white people ...etc. etc[/i]

 

Because there are. If you're asking me why there are few non-white people here, I don't know. Should there be a reason? Or did I misunderstand your question again?