Lap dance at his bachelor party.

[redswim30]

Of course she is welcome to have whatever boundaries she wants. And this is where her boundaries have brought her.

 

I would argue that they are not married yet for a reason. This guy needs to decide if this is the type of mindset he wants to deal with and this kind of absolute view on resolving problems. I mean, if you look at the story in context, doesn't seem like a minor infraction? Does she really want to be back in the dating pool with the story: I broke up with my last boyfriend because he received a lapdance without my permission. If it will sounds like an overaction when retold, it is an overreaction now.

 

 

I don't think this in minor at all. As you say, they aren't even married yet and he clearly did not care how much he hurt her. It's not the action itself, it's what the action represents.

[redswim30]

Why not have a guy's night out, or a day at a baseball game or other sporting event, or some other guy event that doesn't involve getting the groom drunk and having him hook up with another woman?

QUOTE]

 

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

[PaintWithLight]

Of course a boundary is a compromise. Not everyone has the same view.

 

Now we have moved the encounter up to a totally nude dance. Is this based on what really happened?

 

It is not about his personal pleasure and comfort at the moment. It was him holding to a gray area that she was not willing to grant him. Believe me. The event had nothing to do with her.

 

But if she was nude and they hooked up afterwards then that changes things. But I thought this was just a dance??? The OP is correct when she told him: "Its just a lapdance, not the end of the world." But then she got fired up again. This has more to do with insecurities than naked hookups.

[faraday]

That's why I specified within the parameters of the defined relationship. If someone has an open relationship, they can have sex with other people as long as they are abiding the predetermined rules of that relationship. Monogamy is in degrees.

 

There are women that come on here upset that their partner watches porn...just because it makes them uncomfortable, doesn't make that right.

 

I think here's a big difference between a guy that goes to strip clubs for bachelor parties, and a guy that goes weekly.

 

If you're looking to date a saint, that's cool, but you better be willing to completely submit to whatever makes your partner uncomfortable as well.

[Batya33]

I think it's a given that if you're engaged and not in an open relationship you refrain from sexual contact with other people. There are gray areas of course -is it ok to have friends of the opposite sex? have dinner with an ex without the other person there? etc but I would think that it's pretty understood that the definition of monogamy is not to have sexual contact with others (I suppose some might limit it to no intercourse and oral sex but I think that would be a highly unusual definition of monogamy).

[Cheetarah]

I've bought a lap dance for a boyfriend before, so this is tough for me to understand. I'll try.

 

You don't ever need to excuse anything with 'boys will be boys'. That's so silly. Like they are feral wildlife with no impulse control.

 

One really positive thing you have here, is a partner that tells you the truth even when he knows you aren't going to like it. So bear that in mind while you mull over this, and when you speak and react.

 

I don't think he's so swayed by the masses(his friends), but rather it was just a lame-o attempt at blame shifting to quell some of your anger. They very well may have been insistent, but he's still got his own mind and ultimately, he went with it. That part would irritate me out of all of this, because it's just so 7th grade after school special.

 

I understand that you feel betrayed. All of us on here have different views on whether particular things are acceptable, and none of us have the 'right' answer here. Maybe the real issue here, is that it's not the LAP DANCE(as you say), so much as the "we made this agreement thing and you broke it" - In his case, maybe it's "I feel like I am under a watchful eye/being controlled." Just a different perspective to consider.

 

I think it'd be good for you two to explore the underlying issues, which may or may not look like the above. But already on your end, you know - It isn't the lapdance. And I don't think it is for him, either.

[faraday]

You're such a good articulator

[ParisPaulette]

OP, in the end you can look at this as a test of your upcoming marriage. How do you both deal with boundary issues, expressing what each of you is or isn't comfortable with, and then handle the aftermath? So many people never do that then wonder why they're in divorce court down the road.

 

As others have said this isn't even so much about the lapdance. It's about the fact you expressed a boundary, a known "this won't be okay with me" and he said, "Right got it, no problem." And then went ahead and did it anyways.

 

In the overall grand scheme of things you need to find out and take into account his overall behavior on other areas that attitude might or might not spill into. For instance, if he is cavalier like that about spending money, loses his job, and you tell him "You absolutely cannot buy that new computer, we need that money for the rent," and he then says, "Right, gotcha, agreed," and goes out and blows the money on that new computer then insists you pay for it by pulling down some extra shifts to cover the rent that's a big problem.

 

What you need to be asking this guy, with or without a counselor present, is why he thinks he can do whatever he wants to do even after his partner--the woman he is going to marry--states something clearly to him that she did not want him to do.

 

And I would be giving you the same advice if you had told him, "Honey, I do not want to use that caterer. He ripped off my cousin and I found hair in the food at my cousin's wedding." And he then said, "Okay, but let me handle the catering." You tell him that's not a problem and just to not use that guy. And so then who does he hire? He hires that guy.

 

Do you see my point, OP? It's not about a lap dance. It's about "I told you this thing wasn't all right with me, you knew it, you did it anyways and tried to toss your friends under the bus as an excuse for why you did it."

 

This is something I see damage and put an end to a lot of relationships--the fact that one partner does not respect the other partner's wishes and boundaries enough to take into account what their partner asked of them. Your boundaries are your boundaries, and true he's a grown man, you aren't his mom. But as your future husband I think he should have been a bit more respectful of your boundaries and your wishes.

[Clinton]

If this incident is such a huge challenge that it would actually lead to you questioning your relationship, I respectfully suggest you are nowhere near ready for the challenges of marriage.

 

Marriage is a marathon and you dont get through it without occasionally pissing off your significant other.

 

You need to take the long view and have each others back through thick and thin, sickness and health, ya know, the whole marriage vow thing.

 

It's ok to be a tiny bit upset, but anything past that is a gross over reaction.

 

And for all those arm chair quarterbacks telling you to reevaluate your relationship, well they are just bitter people.

 

It's up to you, but unless there's something about his character you aren't telling us, let this incident pass.

[Unreasonable]

I'm afraid I have to at least partially agree with Clinton.

 

I do not think a single life-long marriage has not had a partner crossing some "boundary" at one point or another that made the other "uncomfortable". It's just not going to happen. Happened with grandparents (both sets, life-long), happened with my parents (life long), happened with my marriage of 21 years (so far).

 

Now, you've gotten a preview that, yeah, he's probably gonna cross a boundary with you every once in a while, as I'm sure you will too eventually. I mean, if you are gonna be a tower guard shooting someone dead everything they cross a boundary, then yeah, it's probably not gonna work in the long run.

 

From what I'm gathering here he doesn't seem like a chronic "strip club addict" and has only gone on exceptional occasions, not as a norm. The bright side is he didn't lie about it. A lot of guys would have.

 

Only you, and you alone, can decide if this was SO egregious that you can't spare him. Nobody else here can.

[Ms Darcy]

I'm wondering if he ejaculated during the experience. You'll probably never know but that would be the line for me personally.

[Clinton]

I'm afraid I have to at least partially agree with Clinton

 

Don't be afraid, it's a good thing. I really like people who agree with me, they're usually very intelligent. Although I would prefer you agree fully. But we can't have everything I guess

[Unreasonable]

So what if he did? Ejaculation is not always voluntary.

 

If someone has sex with a woman other than his wife, but pulls out at the last second, is that "better"? Is that any less cheating?

[Clinton]

I'm wondering if he ejaculated during the experience. You'll probably never know but that would be the line for me personally.

 

Last I checked that's usually a non voluntary reaction and has nothing to do with intent or fidelity.

[Unreasonable]

Don't be afraid, it's a good thing. I really like people who agree with me, they're usually very intelligent. Although I would prefer you agree fully. But we can't have everything I guess

 

 

 

Well,

 

I mainly didn't agree that everyone that's trying to convince this woman into calling off the wedding must be bitter. I can't really speak to what's in their heart.

 

However, I think whatever her boundary/dealbreaker/whatever for breaking off engagement should be HER boundary and hers alone.

[Ms Darcy]

Last I checked that's usually a non voluntary reaction and has nothing to do with intent or fidelity.

 

Boundaries and personal and not determined by others. But that particular involuntary reaction tends to happen after a series of events. If he saw some girl on the street and it happened, that's one issue. If he was getting a lap dance and it happened, that's another.

[Unreasonable]

When a man gets a lap dance, the possibility exists that he will cream his jeans, no doubt.

 

We already knew he had a lap dance, so no new information here.

 

A ton of factors, varying from man to man, determines whether that's enough stimulation (as little as visual only) to ejaculate or not.

 

But remember, if a sperm gets wasted, God gets quite irate!

[redswim30]

 

It's ok to be a tiny bit upset, but anything past that is a gross over reaction.

 

And for all those arm chair quarterbacks telling you to reevaluate your relationship, well they are just bitter people.

.

 

Actually, I'm a really nice and happy person, Clinton I'm not bitter for disagreeing with you.

 

I just think it's sad that he told (promised) her one thing and did another. I think she is right to question him at this moment before stepping into marriage.

 

This could be a huge red flag of what's to come in her marriage. For her sake, I hope it's not. But things like this are often red flags that people choose to ignore.

[Ms Darcy]

But remember, if a sperm gets wasted, God gets quite irate!

 

Wasted sperm. You are too funny.

[PaintWithLight]

I

When a man gets a lap dance, the possibility exists that he will cream his jeans, no doubt.

 

We already knew he had a lap dance, so no new information here.

 

A ton of factors, varying from man to man, determines whether that's enough stimulation (as little as visual only) to ejaculate or not.

 

But remember, if a sperm gets wasted, God gets quite irate!

 

I think there is way too much speculation. Now posters are guessing about the possibility of a happy ending.

 

Lap Dance: 4-5 minutes of bouncing and bumping with a woman in a bikini while "Sweet Home Alabama" blasts out of a cheap PA system and various other males in the room hoot and holler. If the OP could see the actual dance and see how harmless and comical it was, she would have more peace of mind.

 

Somehow, ONE 4-minute dance has been transpired into hours of depravity with naked women. This just doesn't happen at most strip clubs. These clubs are highly controlled environments where much is hinted about but actually very little is delivered.

[Clinton]

I think you all have too much time to think on your hands if you equate this young man's actions in to a reason to question the marriage.

 

Has he beat her, verbally abused her, lied about what he did, bring the stripper home with him and ask for a threesome????

 

At this stage I'd tell the young man to question his commitment to the young lady, not the other way around.

[Ms Darcy]

I

 

I think there is way too much speculation. Now posters are guessing about the possibility of a happy ending.

 

Lap Dance: 4-5 minutes of bouncing and bumping with a woman in a bikini while "Sweet Home Alabama" blasts out of a cheap PA system and various other males in the room hoot and holler. If the OP could see the actual dance and see how harmless and comical it was, she would have more peace of mind.

 

Somehow, ONE 4-minute dance has been transpired into hours of depravity with naked women. This just doesn't happen at most strip clubs. These clubs are highly controlled environments where much is hinted about but actually very little is delivered.

 

I don't think anyone is speculating about what happened. I didn't read all of the posts but I don't think anyone has mentioned hours of depravity.

 

I'm just communicating boundaries I communicated in my own relationship. My fiance and I discussed this actually and I mentioned that I would feel uncomfortable if he was doing stuff at a strip club such that he ejaculated. He mentioned that he couldn't really imagine himself getting that excited unless there was some serious physical contact/activity (e.g. grinding) and he understands the boundary.

 

I think what's most important is that I know he understands and respects boundaries. (Actually, he is not going to a strip club at all so it was a hypothetical conversation). And I know if he wanted to go or something changed he would communicate with me beforehand.

[redswim30]

Has he beat her, verbally abused her, lied about what he did, bring the stripper home with him and ask for a threesome????

 

At this stage I'd tell the young man to question his commitment to the young lady, not the other way around.

 

That's right, how DARE she have opinions and feelings. Because we all know that the only respect a woman deserves is not to be abused, if she expects more than that she is clearly "too controlling".

I'm glad you love strip clubs, Clinton. More power to you. But that isn't the real issue. Nobody is suggesting that his visit there is the equivalent of beating her.

 

Taking the strip club out of it entirely, this is what he did do. He broke his promise to her, he crossed a very specifically set boundary by his fiancé that could have been easily avoided. When she was upset, instead of just admitting it was

a mistake he made and apologizing for breaking his promise, he blamed his friends and acted as though the decision was "out of his control". For someone that isn't child, that is a dangerous mindset. The real issue here isn't the strip club, it's his attitude towards her. "Do what I want and apologize later" is, in my very humble opinion, a rocky way to begin a marriage. Are there worse things? Of course there are, but some people feel that marriage can and should be about every level of communication, respect, and honoring one another beyond the basic " As long as he doesn't hit you or sleep with other women, everything is cool" 50's housewife rule. Some people believe men are capable of more, I certainly do.

 

I think you are an intelligent poster, Clinton. I agree with you frequently. We just happen to disagree on this issue, and we offer a different standpoint. But let's be real- We are both posters on a time consuming board because we have strong and sometimes

differing opinions to offer others.

[ParisPaulette]

Thank you! Someone gets it. And just for the record, I'm not bitter or I think wouldn't be happily married to a great guy who doesn't cross boundaries. But we had that talk before marriage and had a few real life examples that confirmed for both of us that we are able to follow each other's boundaries as well as our own before i said yes. I've done the whole leap first and worry about it later and that marriage didn't work, this one does.

 

Okay, now that this thread has been thoroughly hijacked by people who seem to think it's about the OP saying men shouldn't have lap dances, instead of fully reading and understanding her question, let me just address the OP one last time and then I'm done with this thread forevermore.

 

OP, just have a talk with your fiancee and get the issue of him agreeing to one thing and doing another resolved. That's all you need to do here. Take into account his overall behavior and if you can't resolve this on your own get a disinterested third party to mediate. But don't let it sit under your skin or you're liable to take his head off with it somewhere down the line when he's not even expecting it and it will make things worse. And it won't be fair to him either, (see fellas I am thinking about the guy's side of this too.)

 

Festering upsets like that always do, so just get it handled now before your wedding day, so you can both move forward happy and strong together.

[Unreasonable]

When she was upset, instead of just admitting it was a mistake he made and apologizing for breaking his promise, he blamed his friends and acted as though the decision was "out of his control". For someone that isn't child, that is a dangerous mindset.

That's not all that happened. Yes, his played his friends as a factor. And I, 100% think that his friends WERE a factor.

 

BUT in the OP's own words:

 

"He feels really guilty about it and we had a huge talk about it last night - he feels he betrayed my trust by getting a lapdance."

 

He told her the truth. He admitted guilt. He has remorse. Sure, he shouldn't have done it, but he's ticking almost all the right boxes for someone who has done something wrong. And that's kind of a rare thing.

 

Now, I don't recall the ages in question here, but I'm guessing these guys are somewhere in their 20s. I was far from mature in my 20s. I had most of my learning experience and relationship mistakes happen in my 20s. I can and did go to a strip club because my boss (not my best friend) wanted to go. I would not have gone by myself, and I have not been to one in 15 years. If my current boss wanted me to do that now, well, I don't think he would even ask, but I know I would say no. I think its really easy to say that one should be immune to peer pressure after they get out of high school but unfortunately that is not always the case.

 

But I totally agree that the timing of this sucks and its really too bad for this cloud to be hanging over her head right before the marriage. It's too bad this is viewed as some sort of tradition. As far as traditions go, its ironically perverse, imo (not bagging on the profession or the clientele, just the tradition).