Planning the Wedding Before He Proposes?????

[PrincessBOT]

Then don't even sleep over. Look at it as something to look forward to when you are married. That is what we are doing. Even if that means that you are farther from work.

 

I agree and we've discussed this. I told him my prior boyfriend when I stayed over we slept in different rooms and wanted to continue that. However, although we had chemistry I was slow to open up when we first met, but I knew I really liked him. To allow some kind of intimacy I did start the sleep over and sleep in the same bed, that has been it...ever, same be that's it and hugs and kisses. Not any better than that living together I know, but somehow I rationalized thi

What about this? Are you going to be living with his child and helping raise his child together and be a stepmom? or at least have the child part time? How do you feel about that? If he doesn't see the child, are you willing to step up and encourage this child to be a part of your lives and include the child? What is his relationship with the mother? Does he communicate about the child (which would be good?). Most people who are marrying someone with a child talk about those issues here. If you have not been with him long enough if you have not dialed into this or have met the child by now - or will you meet the child once engaged?

 

You also need to accept this man fully with flaws and all and can't brush the child off as "this little thing that happened when he took a break form the church". We all have flaws and failings for sure, but in your mind you have to consider how he handles the child, etc.

 

The mom and child live very far away.

 

Yes, we have talked about every aspect you mentioned in detail about his child. I accept his flaws and he mine or else I would not be with him. One of the very first thing he told me when we met was about his child.

[oitnb]

Prepare to lose this man if you start planning a wedding before he proposes.

[abitbroken]

I think you need to let go of your expectations of being a business running stay at home mom. You are not a mom nor a business owner right now. Start the business, and if it is a viable idea, you should be making money at it to reinvest in it and by the time you are a mom, it may pull an income in for you. Or work your regular job until if and when you become a mom and when you become a mom revisit the idea if its something you can do from home to make money for the family while reinvesting a little.

 

Also, what if you can't live on just his salary and you have to work outside the home part time while a relative watches the child or while he does because the business doesn't bring in enough or requires too much of your time?

 

You have everything so prepackaged and preplanned - you should just focus on enjoying eachother and making your relationship awesome so when he proposes its a joy and then think about each next step when they come - wedding and baby if a baby is to be.

 

It is a lot of pressure for some people to have to accept a preselected package versus enjoying each step along the way.

 

I keep asking him what is it?

 

You have got to stop asking him that. It will make him pull back even more. Men sometimes just get a feeling when the time is right. You are even telling me it is going to happen in a normal conversation - dictating what its going to be. What if he wants different? If he is doing the proposing, it is up to him to choose. And if you keep asking "what is it," I really think you need to add time onto your "proposal" time. It just adds pressure.

 

As far as the child..

 

So...in the time you have dated him...has he ever gone to visit his child or had his child flown out to see him? Discussions are great, but what have you seen in action? Does he pay child support?

 

btw, it worries me that you refer to them as "the mother and child" versus boyfriend's daughter or son or the child's name (obviously don't say the name here, but you catch my drift)

[Blue Spiral]

Catholic church leaders are not married, not allowed and no he was not married when he had the kid. I think he had one of those time periods similar when kids go to college and go wild and got a kid out of it. He is has come long way in coming back spiritually, but he has a ways to go also.

 

"not allowed"? I'm pretty sure that lay leaders are allowed to be married...was he a priest?? If so, going from "vow of celibacy" to "marriage and kids" could be interesting.

 

He's 46, yes? How old is his child? Did he have this child in his college-aged years, which would mean that you don't have to worry about being a stepmother to a shared-custody child? (edit: just read that the mother and child live far away; my bad)

 

I'm sorry, but, something about this isn't quite adding up, to me.

[Seraphim]

Yes , lay Catholic Church leaders are allowed to be married ,those are Deacons. We have a Deacon and he is very much married. Just priests don't marry.

[Seraphim]

It would depend on whether he was a permanent Deacon or transitionary Deacon. A permanent deacon is one who is married. The transitionary Deacon is the last step week before coming a priest

[Iggles]

Catholic church leaders are not married, not allowed and no he was not married when he had the kid. I think he had one of those time periods similar when kids go to college and go wild and got a kid out of it. He is has come long way in coming back spiritually, but he has a ways to go also.

 

You do realize you compared your 46 year old boyfriend conceiving a child out of wedlock to college aged kids going wild? If his child is indeed still a child he or she is under 16. At the very least he was 30 years old having his so-called "wild child" days.

 

Doesn't the hypocrisy bother you just a little that he was out there having pre-marital sex and knocked up a woman he didn't marry while keeping his courtship with you quite slow and chaste?? Now he's back to being "religious" when clearly he hasn't been on the straight and narrow all his life..

 

My friend found a man that was that decisive leader and in 7 months was engage, just like my 4 friends before her. My man on the other hand set the tone and direction and then flip flopped. He says she did what she needed to do and I tell him I know her and she will tell you NO HE did what he needed to do as the man.

 

It's a major red flag that you have to make that distinction to him.. Speaks volumes about how you view differently how a relationship progresses to marriage.

 

The undercurrent to his words is that in his eyes you're not doing something and that is why he hasn't proposed. He wants you to step your game up..

 

Honestly, I find that pretty offensive. Especially since he hasn't communicated with you what's holding him back from proposing.

 

 

I agree and we've discussed this. I told him my prior boyfriend when I stayed over we slept in different rooms and wanted to continue that. However, although we had chemistry I was slow to open up when we first met, but I knew I really liked him. To allow some kind of intimacy I did start the sleep over and sleep in the same bed, that has been it...ever, same be that's it and hugs and kisses. Not any better than that living together I know, but somehow I rationalized thi

 

He may be hiding something from you. All this time with no sex. No wonder your friends are getting married in under a year!

 

Real talk, folks waiting for marriage are pretty serious about vetting potential spouses and then going ahead with marriage. Most don't wait for years on end. They're ready to piss or get off the pot so to speak, because it's not healthy to be in limbo for years just "courting".

 

The more I read your posts, OP, the more I find this situation strange. You're trying to force it, but marriage shouldn't be done under pressure.

[Tanzi]

But I fear you guys will be consoling me when I come back single having told him to take his mixed timing messgaes, reneged. 2 month proposal that he never did or bought up, his online proposal talk and shove it up his nose.

 

And don't you think that if you told him to 'shove his proposal' and he let you walk out of his life, that would speak volumes? Don't you think that if this man loved you he would want to keep you at all costs? Including proposing to you right now if he thought he was going to lose you otherwise.

 

Does it not worry you that when you tell him that you've planned the wedding for such and such a day and that he has to propose to you before that time, that he isn't going to think you are some crazy woman and run for the hills! I know I would!

 

So yeah that is how I feel and that it is socially acceptable for a man to only think about his time and when he is ready.Not a negative thing but just an observation because overall I appreciate the feedback as always, ENA community is awesome...

 

So what your saying is because you are ready for marriage NOW and he is not, it doesn't matter, he should propose to you anyway? I'm not sure what you mean by socially acceptable? Marriage is between just two people and what they BOTH want, it has little to do with society or societal pressure.

 

I don't know why he is trying to come up with the right proposal especially since he know that is what don't care about. He can propose to me while we are eating dinner, driving in the could care less about when and where. I never gave him that impression, but somewhere in his mind that is the case.

 

You don't know why he is trying to come up the right proposal? Goodness me, you are not considering him in this proposal or marriage at all are you. You want a proposal and that is all you care about! Asking the woman you love to marry you is a big thing for a man …. not just a big thing, an amazing thing too. It is HIS moment as much as it is yours. Men go out of their way to want to make their woman feel special when they are proposed to. I don't just mean by making it a lavish affair …. just an poignant affair ……. something that means something to the both of you, even if it is simple. Your views concern me. They are almost controlling … and because he isn't falling into line with what YOU want, you are going to take even more control by booking the wedding anyway and then tell him he has to propose (i.e.. just give you ring if your statement is anything to go by) by X amount of time! How romantic!

 

Please understand he that this man wants to be married to me, asked me to go ring shopping and I fell in love and met him where he was. How can he feel steamrolled or pressured, if does then smack me and toss me back into the twilight zone because I don't understand how one can be steamrolled into something they want. I also don't understand one wanting it, professing it and just not acting even when he says he will, thus the actions I was going to take in planning the wedding. But as I said I've decided to hold off on that.

 

No … I think you need to understand that this man WANTED to marry you. Now it seems that he has reasons to hold back. His actions are speaking much louder than his words, that I fear are more YOUR words anyway that he is just agreeing with right now to keep the peace. I get that in the early days he said some soppy stuff …. but can't you see how that has changed now? Just because he has SAID it to you in the past, doesn't mean you have a right to force him into it without his consent NOW. You do not have his consent, so why would you do it?

[Tanzi]

Just like I have a responsibility not to pressure him into something he doesn't want to do he has the responsibility to want to do what is right and in a reasonable time to protect the integrity of my feelings and our relationship. He can't, correction, he shouldn't just totally disregard my feelings and wants and desires and focus only on his timing, what kind of person does that to someone they love especially after the two came to a mutual understanding and agreement? Sadly, it's not the first time he'd done it, yet I love him through it.

 

You do see how your first sentence doesn't fit together don't you? Again, you are saying that because it is what you want NOW, he should propose to you NOW even though he might not be ready for it NOW. The reality is, however, if he isn't ready now then he isn't going to know when he will be .... or even if he will be. That is why people wait to get married. They do it when they are BOTH sure.

 

There are two people in this possible marriage and this is BOTH of your journeys. It is better to wait until you are both ready and sure so that you can enter into a happy, well balanced marriage than it is for one to be pressured into it, only to realise it was the biggest mistake of their lives.

 

What concerns me is that he is saying one thing but doing another …. that must surely tell you something? Yet you have continued to totally disregarded that and clung on to the fact that because you have spoken about it in the past, he is now obligated to propose to you, regardless of the fact that it isn't what he wants NOW. Either that or you are concerned that all is not as it once was (or should be) and you want to snap him up before he has the chance to go. Whatever your thought process, it is not a healthy start to a marriage that is meant to be about mutual love, respect and understanding. If you charge in, without giving any thought to what he might now want then you aren't showing him any of those things.

 

However, How many times to do we see threads of people on here who have been dumped and left heartbroken saying "I don't get it, we spoke about marriage, kids and everything". In fact, when i first met my boyfriend he told me that he was going to make me his wife. We loosely spoke of having a beach wedding and what style of ring I liked … but it never happened. I'm not saying that it won't ever happen for you but I think you should accept that, when it comes to marriage, you BOTH have to be ready for it.

 

He is not obliged to marry you, just because you spoke about it in your fluffy moments. Time changes things. Pepple's feelings change and just maybe you have given him more than one reason to want to slow things down.

[abitbroken]

Vic is right. Deacons are married. But I also remember hearing from an elderly deacon that if they marry, they must marry before becoming a deacon and can't marry WHILE a deacon and if his wife dies, he remains a widower. But things might have changed in the past 20 years. If that is true, it makes sense because then the deacon wouldn't be focused on meeting women among the people he counsels. He would already have a wife or know they are off limits to him if widowed.

 

I don't think it is strange for someone to decide no sex before marriage (and we don't know that they haven't because she has slept at his house - they just don't live together) after having sexual relationships. Before I met my boyfriend, I decided that I would do things differently and not live with someone or spend the night at someone's house or play house. It doesn't make me hypocritical even if I have done those things with someone else. There are people who have had a wild past or have had sex and then decide they are turning over a new slate and will be chaste until marriage/engagement, etc. in their future relationships.

 

The fishy things are that the OP seems to be glossing over the child thing, at least to me. If they are serious about marriage, you think as the next phase, she would be introduced to the child if she has not at this point. Unless the child is totally out of his life. And of course, the whole wanting to steamroll him.

 

I think the OP needs to focus on peeling back more layers of the onion in their relationship that focuses on other issues except the actual walking down the aisle. Does she know his favorite childhood memories? Favorite color? Is she willing to be a partner to him, even if they can't work out her being a stay at home mom who runs a business when it comes down to the wire?

[Seraphim]

Yes ,deacons that are married before they become deacons that is okay. But I'm pretty sure they frown upon deacons that are not married trolling around for women. Ours just happened to be married for 20 years before becoming a deacon.

[PrincessBOT]

@abitbroken Please see my first post, page 1 paragraph 4. I provided info about the child, I just feel protective and don't want to put to much out about the child. I am comfortable with all concerning the child. There are no issues on that front and I later posted the child and mom live very far away...my boyfriend is a great father, thus my love for him and desire to have his children.

 

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[PrincessBOT]

@a little blue

We talk about the marriage, it is the proposal he won't address.

 

Other than that you have all very good points and all the more reason I need to get to the bottom of it. Planning the wedding seemed like a good thing to either move it forward or bring out what the hold up is on the proposal because all he says when I ask or we are talking is I love you, my feelinga never changed and I want to marry you.

 

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[Tanzi]

Maybe because the marriage seems more in the future, whereas a proposal is more imminent. It seems he isn't opposed to the idea of being married to you but for whatever reason he isn't ready to propose at this moment in time.

 

Perhaps you need to work on finding out what the hold up is, instead of talking "timing".

[Batya33]

@abitbroken Please see my first post, page 1 paragraph 4. I provided info about the child, I just feel protective and don't want to put to much out about the child. I am comfortable with all concerning the child. There are no issues on that front and I later posted the child and mom live very far away...my boyfriend is a great father, thus my love for him and desire to have his children.

 

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That doesn't really make sense - how often does he see the child if they live very far away and why does your bf tolerate that type of geographical distance?

 

If your bf tells you he wants to marry you the simple follow up question/statement is "me too! when do you think we should exchange our vows?" my guess is he is not telling you that he wants to marry you -he's expressing a desire for marriage in the indefinite future and not giving you an opening for a direct follow up as I suggested.

[Blue Spiral]

Princess, could you please tell us more about how your boyfriend is a great father? That must be quite a challenge for him, since the child lives so far away. I only ask because you want kids, and how he treats his current kid is a relevant factor, here. Also, what's the longest relationship your boyfriend has been in?

 

Everyone is focusing on your scheme--and I think the scheme is a bad idea, for the record--but I'm more alarmed by the fact that you want to marry a 46-year-old man that's never been married, and you apparently haven't slept together. I realize that religion plays a role in both his lack of a previous marriage and your apparent lack of sex, but that's a whole lot of wild cards.

[PrincessBOT]

@Batya33

 

My point exactly and the reason I wantes to start planning the wedding. It means we need to define a time period or address the lack of, otherwise how can he fault me for planning something he has made clear will happen. If he did fault me it would be telling about any true or unsaid reservations . If he didn't fault me and started planning I would know he is just hung up on the proposal which I would be fine with letting him work out while we plan.

 

So you do think I should define the time just not by planning the wedding, but bu talking. The thing is we have and do talk, but you are correct it has not been time defining mostly because of the unspoken perception of not ruining the surprise of the proposal. But no more because as I said in a previous post a surprise proposal is not important to me. If is to him he can continue with it or be relieved that ia not important to me. Either way I need to "follow up" for more definite timeframe which has been my goal from the start of this idea. Since I really don't think it is he is stringing me on.

 

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[hers]

I really don't think it's the proposal that he's hung up on. I think it's the girlfriend who's hounding him that he's hung up on...

[Batya33]

Following up by planning is manipulative "well you said you wanted to marry me so I started planning the wedding". Please. You can tell him "let's talk about setting a wedding date so we can start planning our wedding reception. I understand you want the actual proposal to be a surprise so I'm fine with waiting for you to plan how you want to propose. On a practical level I think we should start planning the reception. What do you think?"

 

Here's my issue -your purpose in planning is not for practical purposes but simply to manipulate him into moving forward. People don't like to be manipulated especially if the reason is "because I knew that was what was best for you!" That makes it far worse.

[PrincessBOT]

@hers If that is the case he needs to leave that girlfriend. Also please reread relevant posts. I am not with someone who just does not want to marry me so he says and has said from the start. I am with someone who slowed down for some reason, perhaps as others said due to reality hitting and I add wanting to take a rational assessment. Or it could be something totally different, but he is caught on something and I need to find out what.

 

Our relationship is mutual as well as our talks, I am not nagging him every minute of everyday or at all, but I will not hold back on talking to him and expressing my thoughts and inquiries about anything, especially our future ...and that is not nagging that is common sense and maturity.

 

Added: Also I add it is because everytime we talk he says he loves me, his feeling have never change and he wants to marry me, but has not proposed that I felt talking about it again would be the same so I was going to try the wedding planning.

 

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[Fudgie]

Following up by planning is manipulative "well you said you wanted to marry me so I started planning the wedding". Please. You can tell him "let's talk about setting a wedding date so we can start planning our wedding reception. I understand you want the actual proposal to be a surprise so I'm fine with waiting for you to plan how you want to propose. On a practical level I think we should start planning the reception. What do you think?"

 

Here's my issue -your purpose in planning is not for practical purposes but simply to manipulate him into moving forward. People don't like to be manipulated especially if the reason is "because I knew that was what was best for you!" That makes it far worse.

 

I agree with this completely. You said it way better than I could.

 

It's very clear that you want to go through with the wedding planning before the proposal as a way to sort of "spur" him into action and propose already. That's not right and it will likely backfire on you.

 

I say you should have a sit-down with him and tell him what Batya told you to say. If he balks and hems-haws and is really vague, then yes, it's possible he's stringing you along and may not want to get married for whatever reason. He's 46 and has never been married (or engaged, I assume?) and has a child to boot, so those are some little red flags that maybe he's not that interested in marriage. Or even children....at his age, can you blame him?

[hers]

People can change their minds though. He may hve had a moment of "maybe this isn't the person I want to spend my life with" but is having a hard time calling it off. If that's the case, it's not right but then again your relationship seems to e base on "not rights."

 

He's 46. He's middle aged. He may be an eternal bachelor if he hasn't married yet thus far. And also, consider the disservice that you may do to your future child by having a baby with someone who could die of old age before that child even gets married or has kids (I realize some people may disagree with me there but it's how I feel about older parents).

[PrincessBOT]

@her Also I add it is because everytime we talk he says he loves me, his feeling have never change and he wants to marry me, but has not proposed that I felt talking about it again would be the same so I was going to try the wedding planning.

 

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[penelope13]

What is his response when you ask him directly why he hasn't proposed yet?

[lady00]

What is his response when you ask him directly why he hasn't proposed yet?

I am wondering the same thing. You said something about looking up proposals online but I don't understand that.