Planning the Wedding Before He Proposes?????

[superfan]

If nothing else, OP look at the poll numbers here. 100% of people who have voted so far have said DO NOT just start planning your wedding before he proposes.

 

I cannot think of a worse idea.

 

I get it - you guys fell in love, he said the 'L' word first, brought up engagement first, and seemed all gung ho and now you are in the same place and you wonder why he is stalling. You want to get the excitement going again and get back to that place where you guys are ready to start planning your future together.

 

I get that.

 

But here's the thing: you AREN'T in the same place. Forcing him to be ready for something he might not be ready for is only going to push him away and cause your relationship to crack.

 

I know it seems confusing given how eager he was to call you his fiancee and whatnot, but sometimes (especially with men but certainly not limited to men) they get caught up in the excitement of things without thinking about the reality of it.

 

It might have seemed romantic and beautiful to say he loved you and call you his fiancee at the time....but that was before any of it became REAL. It was before it came with responsibilities, plans for how you would organize finances, plan a honeymoon, which furniture you would keep, and how you would plan your day to day living with one another.

 

You were right to say that calling you his fiancee when you weren't was moving way too fast and yet you are now trying to do the same thing to him.

 

I am guessing it became "real" for him when you went to the pre-marital counselling. From the sound of it you had some serious things to decide and although you think you came through it "ok", my guess is that it left him with some serious reservations that he is not sure he can talk about or bring up because you now have wedding fever.

 

I understand that you are older and don't want to wait to "start your life" and I get that being spiritual living together before marriage might not be an option.

 

However, you cannot make him do something he is not ready for and you cannot force him to be ready for marriage.

 

You say you have talked about it, but have you really??? Have you really listened to what he has to say when you ask him why he hasn't proposed or have you just made demands that have caused him to get defensive.

 

A year and a half together is a VERY short period of time to be together no matter how old you are. He might be starting to feel like it is all too much for him. That feeling will not leave just because you decided to pick out the flower arrangements without consulting him.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him marry you.

 

Here is the scenario I see unfolding:

 

You start planning. Eventually you tell him. He gets hurt and resentful that you are not paying attention to the fact that you are not engaged and have yet to become so.

 

He feels he is not being heard.

 

You both need to learn to communicate better. You have said you have needs in the relationship but so does he.

 

If you want this relationship to succeed, you NEED to take a step back. If you cannot adequately communicate with each other as to where you both are regarding an engagement how do you ever plan to have a marriage? If you need to, talk to a counselor about these issues but DO NOT "plan" a wedding in order to force him to agree to it.

 

Planning a wedding should be a bonding experience not an exercise in Stolkholme Syndrome.

[PrincessBOT]

So here's the thing: The two of you appear to have some things you need to sort through before you should proceed with the wedding. Arguing with people on a forum who are trying to help you isn't going to solve your problem. These things need to be sorted out between you and your boyfriend.

 

I am not arguing and did not have that impression about anyone else.

 

We definitely need to sort out what we already sorted out, which is why I am baffled and feel the need to go ahead with what we sorted out and he has never disagreed with or verbally said otherwise. He just didn't propose like he said, just that he is looking at proposals online.

 

Maybe one of those guys where I just have to do it, let him keep planning his proposal n his own time because he obviously is on his own time, while start the wedding planning get his input and be ready to go. That is the feeling I am getting and it imaybe forcing him timing wise but I can live with that just like he can live with me not being happy about thw status of our engagement., wedding, marriage and lack of.

[abitbroken]

Stop thinking about your 36 year old eggs. If you want to be a mother, then be in touch with your doctors to see if they feel if it is safe and you are indeed fertile. Then tell yourself that it makes no difference whether you try to get pregnant at 36 or 39. The difference between those three years is negligible.

 

EDIT: I get it, the clock is ticking even more loudly for me.

 

Also, have you considered what would happen with all this pressure and then you get married and can't conceive because of him - he is still fertile - but may not be as much as when he was 20. And things that he has experienced in life like a health condition, past drug use, etc, could also influence that. If you married and found out that babies were a no, would you feel unfulfilled and trapped in a marriage with someone 10 years older?

 

Apologize to your boyfriend and say "i know I have been on you a little bit, but it really has been bothering me lately that my age is what it is and I am worried I may never get to have kids. I feel I have been pressuring you and that is wrong. It is something I just need to deal with on my own emotionally if I end up not being married in time to do so. THe relationship should be a the pace that is best for it".

 

Also, have you talked about if you were both willing to undergo fertility treatments? That is a must talk about. Or adoption?

 

Also, besides all this commitment talk - what is awesome about this relationship? Are there any other great benefits - intellectually and emotionally about it that would make it wonderful even if you don't have kids (can't?). There has to be something else there. Also, have you talked about your families, etc? Did i read that he had kids?

 

THen after all that, you have covered all the bases and when he is ready, he will propose. Though I do suggest you take a step back in your mind and think about a few things. He came on pretty hot and heavy with the commitment thing. Some people who do that and back off really DO NOT want to commit or area afraid. The fact that he went to all the classes with you doesn't strike me as a non committal person would do, though..

 

I do NOT think moving in together is a good idea because you would be 'settling' for a lesser commitment or no commitment at all.

 

If you are not on the same timeline, you either have to wait and be patient, or you have to decide that it is not quick enough or compatible enough for you and let him go and find a guy, maybe slightly younger 35-40 who wants a family and give the relationship a good 2 years of no pressure so long as you know you both want kids.

[tattoobunnie]

I have learned with being in an almost spot, and strung along by this one person, to working out my own crazy, to find the one for me - if the guy can't take the heat, tell him to stay out of the kitchen!!

 

I have come to realize, if a man loves you, and want to be with you, he will not scream or get defensive, run away, or disappear when you talk about wedding plans, concepts, ideas timelines, names of kids, money matters, future goals for the relationship, thoughts on religion, how you will save/spend/invest money, how you'll spend vacations, plans for parenting, etc. So if you have a guy who can be direct about these things, and have an open dialogue, it'll happen. Just give it time. Let him make a beautiful plan for you. He's said he will. Trust him. Sorry, I don't have a crystal ball to tell you what day and time, but just relax, and let it unfold itself. He could very well be finalizing payments. And who the hell wants to share the proposal day with a birthday or holiday - I sure don't. Let it be a surprise, something special. Let him be a part of the process.

[abitbroken]

Its not the "wedding plans" you have to sort out. There could be other things - how you handle arguments and disagreements, etc. You clearly are upset when things don't go the exact way you want them. But instead of telling him so, I bet he feels you are withdrawing, getting short tempered for no reason, etc, and that pushes someone away.

 

 

So we went to pre-engagement counseling and went through a bunch of questions that caused a stir, working out your future and life with another person is a big and emotionally draining task, but we made it through.

 

What questions caused a stir? Maybe you need to just keep working on those stirs.

[PrincessBOT]

T

 

This is so true and at one point I was calm about it and realized things may have changed because he slowed down and he had started out really fast. We talked about things over several weeks. We went through all events we had gone through, travels, disagreements and how we handled them, how we interacted with our families and together we decided our plans. He still love and wants to be engaged and married and I felt now he was moving at a good pace after he really knows me and I know him. Then he reneges and says nothing except he is looking online at proposals. How can I look at him and smile through it and enjoy our time when I am caught in the middle of not being able to hold him to what we agreed and he not having to give a reason because I will appear desparate or further delay.

 

I don't have it in me not to be happy and not say or do anything that is why I just stayed away and that was a lot since we spend almost each day together. I feel what you are saying thoigh just don't think I can. But I am going to think about it.

[Catherine_3]

 

We definitely need to sort out what we already sorted out, which is why I am baffled and feel the need to go ahead with what we sorted out and he has never disagreed with or verbally said otherwise. He just didn't propose like he said, just that he is looking at proposals online.

 

I think you need to sort out more than just a wedding. Your relationship seems highly disfunctional. If you can't do this together, then how are you supposed to have children together? achieve your financial goals together? Have a LIFE together?

 

Are you going to do the same thing when it's time to have kids? ...you just go ahead and get pregnant with the expectation that soon enough he'll decide he's ready to be a dad?

 

Fix this. Fix the relationship, if it can be fixed. ...and do it before you even consider planning a wedding.

[PrincessBOT]

@abitbroken yes in pre engagement counseling we were asked what if one or the other could not have kids so we know how each other feels and what our options would be and agree on it.

 

@bekka2 the only dysdunctional part ia the engagement. We had chemistry from day one, have so much in common and just enjoy each other company. For 1.5 years when we are together almost everyday we don't watch tv or music we just talk about everything our day , family, world events, politics, pray together, dinner at the table almost every eve except date nights. It is great with the occassional disagreements. We've traveled to several countries together and two more planned for this year. It is a normal relationship outside of his seemingly about face on the actual proposal though he will talk about our future.

 

I will try to be happy and enjoy this and as much and as long as I can and when the opportunity comes to discuss it again in a non confrontational way I will.

[lavenderdove]

I read things like this and just sigh... this is a massive case of putting the cart before the horse. You can get that cart all tacked up and all decked out, but if the horse isn't interested in pulling it, it is going nowhere. And if the horse gets seriously annoyed when you're trying to strap him into the cart, it may kick you in the head and bolt.

 

Seriously, if you are going to marry someone, you need to be able to talk to him and negotiate and discuss things like this. As in rather than just planning a wedding which is a really passive aggressive thing to do, you sit him down and tell him your feelings. That you are getting anxious because you talked about engagement, you got pre-marital counseling, he said he was going to propose at a certain time then he didn't do it. And that if he wants to get married, now it the time. And that you don't need a big proposal or a big ring or anything else, what you need right now is to GET ENGAGED so that you can start planning a wedding and get on with life and have kids while you still have time to do so.

 

But your problem may be that he is not being honest with you. As in he doesn't want to start over having kids at 46 or he's not sure he wants to get married after going thru all this, so he's stalling and not proposing. If that's the case, you need to get to the bottom of it, and fast. What if he balks and refuses to marry and have kids? If that's the case and you want kids, you'd better leave him and look for someone new and fast, or recognize you'll need to have kids as a single mother.

 

So planning a wedding when you're not even engaged is MASSIVE denial about the fact that he hasn't agreed to marry you yet. An engagement is not just a romantic 'event', it shows his willingness to plan a wedding and actually marry you, and he hasn't done it yet so you have no promises at all at this point. You could sit there for YEARS with your wedding planning books turning brown and the paper shriveling up, but he still won't marry you unless what he wants to do is marry you.

 

So you need to get much more specific with him and really communicate your feelings and see if he's willing to address them or not. As in, you propose to him, and tell him you want to start planning a marriage now to occur on X date (pick your wedding day) and is he willing to marry you if you start that planning. See what he says.

[PrincessBOT]

So true....and this along with the other posts are pulling me out of my determination on starting the wedding planning. I see it as a way to give him the boost he needs while saving our relationship because of how I feel. I am rethinking it now....atleast on including him in on it. I still want to price things and have ideas in mind aince we dis already dicuss wedding budget and number of guest. I knew that it would come to this that day we were caisualy talking about it I would have kept going and just planned every detail we could right then.

[abitbroken]

So true....and this along with the other posts are pulling me out of my determination on starting the wedding planning. I see it as a way to give him the boost he needs while saving our relationship because of how I feel. I am rethinking it now....

 

So...the "boost" of nudging him is going to save your relationship? I thought you had great 'chemistry' and everything was great except him not proposing. So...maybe the truth is that the relationship is not that great or that you are so focused on an engagement that you have lost sight. It does seem like almost the entire relationship has been about hoping to get engaged vs just enjoying eachother and learning if eachother is the one or not.

 

If he needs to propose to "save" the relationship rather than to just elevate it to something more - is that a relationship to be in? Not that he is not a good guy - but this has just been too hammered vs letting the other party work on his timeline, too

[PrincessBOT]

So...the "boost" of nudging him is going to save your relationship? I thought you had great 'chemistry' and everything was great except him not proposing. So...maybe the truth is that the relationship is not that great or that you are so focused on an engagement that you have lost sight. It does seem like almost the entire relationship has been about hoping to get engaged vs just enjoying eachother and learning if eachother is the one or not.

 

If he needs to propose to "save" the relationship rather than to just elevate it to something more - is that a relationship to be in? Not that he is not a good guy - but this has just been too hammered vs letting the other party work on his timeline, too

 

This not true at all, my boyfriend always wanted to get married and made it clear he wanted to marry me and til today says his feelings never change. He literally could have anxiety and normal cold feet and not realize what the heck he is doing to me and in turn or relationship by dragging his feet. And yes some guys no matter how much in love need a boost, reality punch whatever you call it. Is not something I made up I read several places that women who don't bring it up and take action will be in that state longer than woman who do.

 

If I was with a guy who said he was not ready who had not even entertained the idea or who did not profess his love and desire to get engaged married and have kids I could understand your point. But this not that black and white.Also our whole relationship has been about commitment not engagement.

 

Our relationship is not perfect and no one's is. We had growing pains that bought us closer together and taught us about each other. That did not make it a bad relationship that I looked for a proposal to fix. I looked for proposal because through it all I knew I wanted him as my future and he told me and treated me the same and we'd discussed it and had already went ring shopping. No one absolutely no one or man should EVER ask a women ro go ring shopping if he is not intent on proposal. Why in the world is it like I am being seen as delusional about expectiing an engagement proposal after we went engagement ring shopping?

 

As far as his timeline being a couple means keeping the other in consideration because it is not only his life and he failing to keep to the two month engagement he said or even mwntioning it does make me question things and cause resentment that can harm the relationship.

[Tanzi]

I understand that this may not be a black and white situation but the point is he knows you want to get married, he knows how you feel about him and you've discussed getting married …. but he still hasn't proposed. Actions speak louder than words and so far his actions (or rather non-actions) are saying it isn't what he wants right now. You simply cannot steam roller this because it is what YOU want. No-one should have to boost their partner into marrying them. For a start you should have the respect and patience to wait for him to be ready. You sound like someone who is desperate to be married, at whatever cost.

 

You are nagging him and pushing him and putting him under a pressure that is probably making him wonder what married life is really going to be like. If I were him I would be scared.

 

Anyhow, how does the results of the poll make you feel?

[PrincessBOT]

I appreciate the poll and take it as an objective view to the situation. It along with other posts have made me reconsider the planning the marriage. But I fear you guys will be consoling me when I come back single having told him to take his mixed timing messgaes, reneged. 2 month proposal that he never did or bought up, his online proposal talk and shove it up his nose. Because with the exception of the every so often loneliness I was happier for 5 years being single with no expectations and broken promises than the emotional roller coaster that I am unnecessarily on with him. And I am going to give him all the time he needs ....permanently.

 

So yeah that is how I feel and that it is socially acceptable for a man to only think about his time and when he is ready.Not a negative thing but just an observation because overall I appreciate the feedback as always, ENA community is awesome...

[abitbroken]

That would be very short-sighted to tell him to shove it because he is 2 months "overdue" on a proposal if the relationship is truly a quality relationship and you want to spend the rest of your life with him rather than just "snagging a guy". I think there is a better way.

 

I think there is a difference between a marriage timeline and an engagement timeline. I think that you should do more talking and decide when you both would like to get married. Not as in an exact, but "i see us married within the year" or "i see us married within 6 months". If you are in the same timeframe, does it matter if he proposes elaborately, if he proposes today or 3 months before your date, or if you just both decide "there is so much pressure when it comes to the right proposal and rings and we are not 20 year old kids. What if we just picked a date and got married? I don't need a fancy ring. Just wedding bands."

 

He might be RELIEVED that you said that because coming up with the right proposal or the right ring and say "okay. Let's do it.". Or he might tell you that he needs more time and tell you why. "i have been trying to pay off this debt that i don't want to bring into our marriage". or "I really want to surprise you and its hard to do that because you have seemed so upset and snappy lately...like you don't even want me around.."

 

I also think that you are talking about its not fair that it has to be on a man's time or that he is not considering your feelings, but marriage is no good if only one party is ready. You don't want to have kids with someone who feels steamrolled.

[abitbroken]

btw, i missed along the way whether he was divorced, widowed or never married...

[Blue Spiral]

You said that he had a kid when he was in a period of "transition" from his church. Is there a chance that he's having another "transition" now? A church leader having a kid out of wedlock = a sign that he may not be 100% committed to what's popularly called "family values". He's 46, he's apparently not doing what he told you he would...maybe he doesn't want to sign up for all this, or maybe he secretly feels he's too old to be a father.

 

Church leaders are usually married. This may be out of line, but, was he married when he had the kid with this (other?) woman?

[OptomisticGirl]

As others have said, it's a very bad idea. The important thing should be planning for the marriage and not the wedding. And as long as you are focused on when he's going to give you that diamond ring, that isn't happening.

[abitbroken]

I just reread a few things.

 

You are planning on his income for more cashflow for your business. WRONG ANSWER. You need to open your business with your self. When I get married, a side business I have will not depend on my future husband's income.

 

Talk about resentment, I'd been telling my boyfriend how at my age now my friends are meeting their men and are engaged and married within a year. I know at least 3 couples and the 4th happened right before my eyes. My mother actually said last year your friend was single now she's engaged and you are not.

 

I think this is the true crux of the matter. You are comparing yourself to others. And you also care about what mom thinks about this. I have known people that have met, dated and gotten married within the time my boyfriend and I had dated. So what. We are not them and our relationship has different parameters, challenges, etc, than they have. Not challenges as in bad, but when you are above a certain age, even if you don't have kids, you have an established adult life to merge and other considerations rather than being 20 years old, especially if parents are ailing, etc.

 

When I was 25, it was really, really heck when it seems everyone I knew was getting married. It happened again when I was about 30-32, and every few years it happens again in a big wave.

 

Anyway, if you are telling your boyfriend your friends are getting married and you are not, that doesn't contribute towards the success of you getting married and it should not be about "success" of getting engaged. It should be that you want to spend the rest of your life with this man and want to make a commitment to eachother in due time and not about winning a prize.

[abitbroken]

I am spiritual person and Christian we both are, he was even in leasdership in the church, which his work schedule will not allow now. I would feel morally

and spiritually convicted by living together before marriage along with other things so we don't.

 

Then don't even sleep over. Look at it as something to look forward to when you are married. That is what we are doing. Even if that means that you are farther from work.

 

No he didn't live with her. He had the child during a period of transition from church, but he never lived with the mother. About his work schedule, as part of transitioning from church leadership he got another job with a very difficult hours.

 

What about this? Are you going to be living with his child and helping raise his child together and be a stepmom? or at least have the child part time? How do you feel about that? If he doesn't see the child, are you willing to step up and encourage this child to be a part of your lives and include the child? What is his relationship with the mother? Does he communicate about the child (which would be good?). Most people who are marrying someone with a child talk about those issues here. If you have not been with him long enough if you have not dialed into this or have met the child by now - or will you meet the child once engaged?

 

You also need to accept this man fully with flaws and all and can't brush the child off as "this little thing that happened when he took a break form the church". We all have flaws and failings for sure, but in your mind you have to consider how he handles the child, etc.

[PrincessBOT]

@ abitbroken Although the ring is not more important than our commitment I do want a nice ring and I don't know why he is trying to come up with the right proposal especially since he know that is what don't care about. He can propose to me while we are eating dinner, driving in the could care less about when and where. I never gave him that impression, but somewhere in his mind that is the case.

 

I keep asking him what is it? We talk about things, mostly things we've discussed about our future and things I said and he said and then he tells me his feelings have never changed, he loves me and wants to be married to me. He say nothing to the contrary of wanting to get engaged or married, has never asked for more time or expressed for an example a financial limitation, especially since he always has money to do for others he really can't say finances because all the money he uses for other could have been used for the ring and engagement etc. So if he does say it's finances that means he has made me and our future dead last on his priority list because he used his finance for everyone else before me. If that was the case then he took me for granted thinking I'd accept that. So I will not go down that road, but it is a possibility. However, my point is he has not and will not express any reservations just won't act either.

 

Please understand he that this man wants to be married to me, asked me to go ring shopping and I fell in love and met him where he was. How can he feel steamrolled or pressured, if does then smack me and toss me back into the twilight zone because I don't understand how one can be steamrolled into something they want. I also don't understand one wanting it, professing it and just not acting even when he says he will, thus the actions I was going to take in planning the wedding. But as I said I've decided to hold off on that.

[PrincessBOT]

btw, i missed along the way whether he was divorced, widowed or never married...

 

He has never been married or engaged.

[PrincessBOT]

You said that he had a kid when he was in a period of "transition" from his church. Is there a chance that he's having another "transition" now? A church leader having a kid out of wedlock = a sign that he may not be 100% committed to what's popularly called "family values". He's 46, he's apparently not doing what he told you he would...maybe he doesn't want to sign up for all this, or maybe he secretly feels he's too old to be a father.

 

Church leaders are usually married. This may be out of line, but, was he married when he had the kid with this (other?) woman?

 

I doubt it, when we first started dating, I'd been single for 5 year, with the exception of a 5 month relationship with a friend who I went back to being friends with. I'd become content with the idea of never having children and was okay with it. It came out when we were talking and long story short it was many months before I even let the idea of having children come in. It was being in love with him and knowing he would be a great husband and father that ignited my maternal desires. Then I realized oh crap all that stuff the doctors are talking about high risk, reduction in egg quality apply to me and my GYN was like you are healthy so when you are ready start trying. She said start trying, not get pregnant , go for it, but start trying. It is not a emotional only thing is is physical if we want to give our children the best chance at being healthy sooner is much better than later, even with he being 46 men have issues too as they age. It really ticks me that it seems like as soon as it hit me and I am like ok yes let's do it, he took a chill pill for only God knows what reason, because he is adamant there is nothing that has changed his mind.

 

Catholic church leaders are not married, not allowed and no he was not married when he had the kid. I think he had one of those time periods similar when kids go to college and go wild and got a kid out of it. He is has come long way in coming back spiritually, but he has a ways to go also.

[PrincessBOT]

I have my own money for business, it is the lifestyle factor. I prefer to focus only on the business and be a stay at home mom, not work full-time work and part-time business. We discussed that early on and he said it was okay as long as we lived within his salary. I was fine with that because I plan to be able to contribute at some point.

 

 

As far as my friends getting married and their timeframe it was what happened. My boyfriend and I talked about it before I was really expecting the proposal during just a regular conversation. He always talked about marriage and our life together and at that time I expressed my observation of what I saw and changes in my circle as I got older. Then once we had gone through pre-engagement counseling and I'd been expecting the proposal it happened again and I told him. I resented him for it, I was there the night they met 7 months earlier and saw the difference was not my friend it was that her man was decisive and did exactly what he said. Men are the leaders and I strongly believe that, the relationship will take on the tone and direction they set . My friend found a man that was that decisive leader and in 7 months was engage, just like my 4 friends before her. My man on the other hand set the tone and direction and then flip flopped. He says she did what she needed to do and I tell him I know her and she will tell you NO HE did what he needed to do as the man.

 

Just like I have a responsibility not to pressure him into something he doesn't want to do he has the responsibility to want to do what is right and in a reasonable time to protect the integrity of my feelings and our relationship. He can't, correction, he shouldn't just totally disregard my feelings and wants and desires and focus only on his timing, what kind of person does that to someone they love especially after the two came to a mutual understanding and agreement? Sadly, it's not the first time he'd done it, yet I love him through it.

[PrincessBOT]

As others have said, it's a very bad idea. The important thing should be planning for the marriage and not the wedding. And as long as you are focused on when he's going to give you that diamond ring, that isn't happening.

 

I've only ever been focused on the marriage not strung up on the wedding. I only want to start planning the wedding to get to the marriage. I don't even plan to have an elaborate wedding, 100 people or less, service at my church and buffet style dinner at our favorite restaurant, which also has an beautiful event hall. You pay for the food per person and get to use the hall for no extra charge. I am considering no bride's maids or best men so family can just enjoy and I plan to rent the wedding gown since I can't see spending thousands of dollars on something I will wear only once. I would buy the dress I change into though.

 

Also I've mentioned we've discussed how many children, pets, location, jobs, finances, how we will raise the kids, all marriage things not wedding. The only thing wedding we discussed is budget and number of guest.