Planning the Wedding Before He Proposes?????

[Tanzi]

Yes ,deacons that are married before they become deacons that is okay. But I'm pretty sure they frown upon deacons that are not married trolling around for women. Ours just happened to be married for 20 years before becoming a deacon.

 

Out of curiosity, how would they feel about those who had previously had a child out of wedlock?

[Tanzi]

@her Also I add it is because everytime we talk he says he loves me, his feeling have never change and he wants to marry me, but has not proposed that I felt talking about it again would be the same so I was going to try the wedding planning.

 

But saying you want to marry someone is totally differently from wanting to do it right this minute. Generally when couples start talking about marriage, they are thinking of the future. There is a big step between talking about it and being ready to propose the moment the word "marriage" comes out of one or the others mouth.

 

I think the reason you thought he would take immediate action was because he had (rather immaturely I think) referred to you as his fiance in the beginning. However at the point you realised you loved him too, he had calmed down somewhat and had fallen into a more normal pace.

[PrincessBOT]

, He says, but you don't know what I've been doing and for the last 2 months added I've been looking at proposals online.

 

He has been planning major additional to his car, in the thousands of dollars, and it is all optional additions. It was one of the days we were talking about getting engaged and he said the above. We agreed it should be soon, but we've had that conversation before so go figure. After the conversation he started talking about getting the work on the car and the cost. I was not mean or hyper about it just said it normally, but I said it once and will ever say it once...if that car get upgraded before I do it will be a major problem and I mean it. He smiled and shook head up and down.

 

I did not tell him, but if it does happen I will not waste my breath on inquiring I will literally become a ghost to him as in never even bother to speak again because he would have spoken loud and clearly. So I pray that does not happen because

I am no stranger to it once I feel I am egregiously wronged, disrespected or mistreated by a man I am done instantly. And when I am done I don't call text Facebook or even speak on the street if I see him,which is why I make sure I do all I can and put every effort. I am working on this and do pray about it, but I am not perfect and that is one of my protection and self preservation methods.

 

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[Fudgie]

So he implied that he's putting the wedding/proposal on hold so he can spend thousands tricking out his car?

 

Wow, can the writing on the wall get any more clear?

[lady00]

So he implied that he's putting the wedding/proposal on hold so he can spend thousands tricking out his car?

 

Wow, can the writing on the wall get any more clear?

 

If this is the case, then I think you know where his priorities lie. If he does not need to fix the car and just wants to enhance it rather than spend money on your ring and wedding (which need not even be an expensive arrangement if you are concerned more about the marriage than the wedding part) then he's just not serious about marrying you.

[OptomisticGirl]

But saying you want to marry someone is totally differently from wanting to do it right this minute. Generally when couples start talking about marriage, they are thinking of the future. There is a big step between talking about it and being ready to propose the moment the word "marriage" comes out of one or the others mouth.

 

I think the reason you thought he would take immediate action was because he had (rather immaturely I think) referred to you as his fiance in the beginning. However at the point you realised you loved him too, he had calmed down somewhat and had fallen into a more normal pace.

 

I agree with this. My husband and I were talking about marriage just a few weeks after we met (neither of us wanted to date someone were that person didn't want that as an end game, so those discussions happened early) and we both knew we wanted to marry each other shorty after that but he didn't propose to me until 3 months later. I knew it was coming but I didn't EXPECT it to come within a time frame. In fact he proposed before we had talked about him proposing - it was a normal work day when he popped the questions, completely out of the blue.

 

I think there is a lot of writing on the wall that you need to really look at within this relationship.

[PrincessBOT]

It is so obvious that it could be that he said it to throw me off. I don't want to make him seem like a cold hearted careless person.

 

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[abitbroken]

If he uses his car as a work car - its a truck for work or the upgrades are in lieu of buying a brand new car and cheaper than the new car would be, then leave it alone. You may not realize that the car situation is not an "either or" where if he does that, you won't get engaged. It may be on a separate timeline and not relate getting married at all.

 

I think instead of saying "you better not update your car before we get engaged" etc, you are better served by having a heart to heart and saying to him "i know your car is important - but when you are going to drop a lot of money on something, I fear that you have decided that you are doing that instead of thinking about getting married. Can you see where I am coming from" rather than giving him a "you better not." and wagging your finger. If you come accross as someone who will tell him what to do all the time, and if you are, that doesn't bode success.

 

Also, who says that he has to scrimp and save while you don't? I thought on one hand you didn't care about a fancy ring or an expensive wedding but then you are concerned with saving money for it. You can't have things both ways where you get a big gala that is long planned and a ring he has to save for and also get a simple ring and a wedding that means more because it is just the two of you and witnesses or you have your nearest and dearest but not everyone you ever have known because the marriage ahead is most important.

 

We are not slaving away to save thousands to get married. I might wear clothes I already have. We will get rings. We will get married in a church but no big reception. Basically, apart from the rings, we could afford any of it at any given time when we are ready to.

 

At any rate - several times you have talked about being "wronged", etc, but no one has "wronged" you. Maybe your past relationships someone has but a guy not proposing at the very moment you want him to is far from "wronging" someone. You have had a very intense relationship of mainly preparing for marriage almost the whole time with all the assessments and you guys need to come up for a breather. Not just 2 months. Let things all settle and get into real life without assessing anything. Have some honest conversations but don't "tell him what to do". If it doens't satisfy you, then break up.

 

I think another factor is if you are the type to talk about being "wronged" and becoming a ghost, he could fear sharing his true feelings with you if they are not what you want for fear of you freaking out on him, that you would stonewall him or run and not listening genuinely to his sharing first and foremost and then going from there. Anything BUT proposing is the wrong answer to you.

 

You are going to drive yourself crazy. you really have only two options - let it go. When he is ready to propose he will. It may surprise what happens when you just relax. People can get jumpy and snappy at people and not even realize. Or break up. Those are the only two choices.

[hers]

So...what's so appealing about this guy???

[penelope13]

Really, what is wrong with asking him directly? I find it curious that you haven't responded to that question yet.

[abitbroken]

Really, what is wrong with asking him directly? I find it curious that you haven't responded to that question yet.

 

I am in agreement with this. As long as she does not say it in the same breath while talking about him spending money or said manipulative tears.

[PrincessBOT]

@ a bit broken I think you are applying someone accross the board advice at this point instead of based on all the info I've provided.

 

I didn't say I don't care about the ring, I said I could care less about a surprise proposal.

 

I also never said anything about hia financial situation or it being a factor .

 

As far as his car it sits in the driveway 90% as he takes mass transit to work.

 

It is interesting that all your suggestions put the reaponsibility on me ... not this is a factor in my case although you present it as if it was but you say I would be responsible should downgrade what make me happy as far as ring instead of the guy wanting to make the the woman hapoy. I should temper my feelings abiut him putting a perfectly fine 2 yr old car car befor me.

 

So I am curious about what you think is a the guy's responsibility to a woman he has professed lkve and marriage and engagement to but missed an engagement timeframe without saying a word. What is the guy's responsibility for talking about. And general what in your view any responsibility on what the guy should be doing ot saying during this time while the woman tip toe around the subject, which if the guy is not serious is to his benefit and her detriment?

 

 

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[PrincessBOT]

@hers everything

 

@penolope @Fulgie @ Batya33. We have talk always talk same response I love you, my feelinga never changed and I want to marry you or some variation of that and also he tells me that I don't know what he is doing in the way of preparation , he is online looking at proposals he says. So it would be like beating a dead horse to talk about the proposal again. However you all have led me in the right direction of talking genuienly about more concrete timeframe for marriage versus the indefinite time he is leaving it at now.

 

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[Fudgie]

There is no "responsibility" here. He doesn't owe you anything. He mentioned marriage and everything in the beginning, probably due to infatuation, and you have fixated on that for the whole of your relationship, thinking that it was basically as good as a promise that you guys were going to get married. Just because someone (man or woman) talks about marriage and wanting it doesn't mean that they are obligated to ACTUALLY marry you. They can change your minds. They can wait longer than initially anticipated.

 

But nevermind that. I think you have bigger issues going on. You have a man here, a 46-year-old, never-married man, who clearly wants to trick out his car with optional accessories before he even considers marrying you. And that's even IF he actually wants to marry you. He doesn't seem to be making any real progress, and you have to consider his relationship history, his age, and even the fact that he has a child....he may not want another one.

 

No one is saying you have to temper your feelings about playing second fiddle to a car. Quite the opposite. In the beginning, I advocated you calming down and talking to him directly about your desire to get married instead of going around and planning it on your own as a way to passive-agressively force him into proposing. Now that you've given us even more info about him, I'm not convinced that he wants to marry at all. The car thing really speaks volumes. I mean, HUGE volumes.

[PrincessBOT]

@ fudgie you are absolutely 100% wrong two people committed to each other in whatever way not even just people if you or anyone committs to anything whether it be relationship, marriage, time etc that person has a responaibilty to the other person or thing or cause they committed to.

 

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[Fudgie]

And yes, for future reference, I do think it's good to talk with a long term partner about a timeline, for marriage, kids, whatever. If you're with someone long term and it's something you both want, there is NOTHING wrong with bringing it up, even if it's just to say "Okay, so how long do you want to keep 'seeing where this goes' for?". Or even just general questions "When do you see yourself getting married? Having children?" or even just questions about possible cohabitation in the future if that's what you want.

 

It's good to be open and direct. It may not be the most "romantic" but boy, I sure prefer talking it through rather than sitting there wondering.

[Fudgie]

@ fudgie you absolutely 100% wrong two people committed to each other in whatever way not even just people if you or anyone committs to anything whether it be relationship, marriage, time etc that person has a responaibilty to thw other person or thing they committed to

 

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Your partner does not have a responsibility to marry you, even if he said in the past that he wanted to. He has the right to change his mind.

 

Now, I would say that out of respect, he should let you know what's going on, but on a very base level, no, just because someone says at some point "I want to marry you" doesn't mean that you are ENTITLED to get married to that person. They can change your mind. People change their minds all the time. Engagements are called off.

 

You are clinging to the fact that he was infatuated early in the relationship and brought up marriage very early. You think that it's something that he "owes" you. He doesn't.

 

Furthermore, your clinging to this fact seems to make it so you are so focused on getting married that you are failing to see his actions. And his actions/words here are not painting a good picture of his intent.

[PrincessBOT]

@fudgie it was not in the beginning he has reaffirmed as I have about our love for each other and his desire to marry me, for us to marry. I wasn't just said 1.5 yrs ago and now I am expecting him to or us do something we have only discussed once or twice. So give feedback based on that.

 

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[Fudgie]

PrincessBot, you need to stop looking at his words and look at his actions because that is what is truly telling.

 

A man can swear all day that he wants to marry you but until he puts you on top of that priority list and starts doing things to make it HAPPEN, it means very little, really.

 

"actions speak louder..."

[PrincessBOT]

@fudgie regarding his action vs hia words I agree. That is why I was going to present that we start planning the wedding because we have talked the paint off the walls and he has not acted not and talk is easy. But to go along with planning a wedding even putting out money oh boy the action or lack of would be undeniable. But the consencus is that I keep talking, I will give it another go.

 

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[Fudgie]

I think it's worth one more direct talk with him. Then make your choice if you want to stay with him or not.

 

You're right, talk is cheap. He needs to walk the walk and he's not doing that.

 

don't waste your $$ starting to plan and book things and getting yourself all excited as some sort of a "test" to gauge him.

 

To be honest, I think the writing is already on the wall here.

[Batya33]

"So I am curious about what you think is a the guy's responsibility to a woman he has professed lkve and marriage and engagement to but missed an engagement timeframe without saying a word. What is the guy's responsibility for talking about. And general what in your view any responsibility on what the guy should be doing ot saying during this time while the woman tip toe around the subject, which if the guy is not serious is to his benefit and her detriment? "

 

I think his responsibility is to respond honestly to his girlfriend's question as to why there was no proposal and whether there will be a proposal (and if so, when).

[penelope13]

penolope @Fulgie @ Batya33. We have talk always talk same response I love you, my feelinga never changed and I want to marry you or some variation of that

 

that is really not a straight forward response to a direct question of "why are we not engaged yet". You both need to learn how to communicate better and more direct with each other. If I received this king of response to a direct question I would consider this evasive

[Batya33]

that is really not a straight forward response to a direct question of "why are we not engaged yet". You both need to learn how to communicate better and more direct with each other. If I received this king of response to a direct question I would consider this evasive

 

I agree with this.

[abitbroken]

The thing is YOU are here asking for advice, not him. We can't give HIM advice. In any problem that arises, it is never that ONE person is the sole contributor of the issue. It is about two people and a breakdown of communication. We can only advise you to take YOUR responsibility for your part of this. If he were here, our advice may be different.

 

We are not questioning at all that he loves you. You keep saying "but he keeps telling me he loves me and that won't change" or to that effect. That was never the issue. The issue that you have is you are hot to get engaged right now and he is not. He COULD surprise you tomorrow - who knows. But for whatever reason, he has not proposed. It could be a variety of reasons. The only things you can control is what you contribute to. You have no control over his past hurts or experiences, only yours.

 

No one said to tiptoe. I think it was Hers who said to just ask him straight out. But there is a difference between having a sincere conversation like I suggested instead of wagging your finger and throwing out passive aggressive or even nagging statements. Yes: "Honey, sometimes when I hear about your plans to spend a lot of money on something, I fear that you are not saving for the wedding...or that it puts us farther down the timeline." vs "i will be a ghost with no facebook, no calls" or "you better not..." Who has a good response when someone tells them that or even implies that...? Ok, in all fairness you told us the ghost thing and not him, but thinking that must spill over into you appearing a little jumpy to him. It does show when someone is not happy. Or "let's talk about when we would like to be married".... Heck, maybe there is a future where you guys don't get engaged and just say "lets do it" or maybe he is just not ready as he thought and is a bit scared by the issues that came up in the counseling....things he didn't consider before.

 

I think the detriment is marrying this guy before you guys have worked on your communication skills together. If you are going to work yourself up over things you think "he should do", what is life going to be like when you are married and he doesn't do something at the exact minute you want him to? I am sure I have said this before, but I think few people have business moving towards marriage before the 2 year mark. That is when people start to really, really get to know eachother warts and all. (exception of people dating before, being best friends for years first, being 90 years old, etc).